Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ripsnort on December 03, 2004, 06:09:41 PM
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He was an American Airlines Mechanics supervisor in Kansas City. He says the company is almost dead, he had very high seniority.
:(
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Sorry to hear, Ripsnort :(
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Kinda sad to see some monkeys wreck a legacy.
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Rip, you should be celebrating- after all, your brother in law was probably Union, and we all know how lazy THOSE guys are.
They deserve to get the rug pulled out from them, right?
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Originally posted by Airhead
Rip, you should be celebrating- after all, your brother in law was probably Union, and we all know how lazy THOSE guys are.
They deserve to get the rug pulled out from them, right?
Classy.
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Maybe if he typed at the internets more during work, his company would be in better shape.
Or... maybe I can't figure out why you'd post the details & circumstances of your extended family here. Is his layoff representative of something larger happening in the industry that you wanted to discuss?
Or... Do you want a shoulder to cry on?
Or... Is this a good time to tell you that my sister in-law was on her way to pick up some groceries when she got a flat tire?
Or... Am I just being a dink for not getting it? :D
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Well my brother-in-law divorced my sister and now cries alot, and quotes me stuff from the bible every once in awhile. Tried to warn him. And Airhead, supervisors aren't union.
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ra, management is following a path Ripsnort admires- close down your own maintence facilities and sub contract out the work to an out of country facility.
On the bright side, though, Rip's brother in law can replace his 80,000 dollar a year supervisor position with four 20,000 dollar a year food service jobs- Starbucks in the morning, Subway in the afternoon, Outback in the evening and Denny's at night.
Who says this Administration isn't creating jobs?
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Originally posted by Creamo
Well my brother-in-law divorced my sister and now cries alot, and quotes me stuff from the bible every once in awhile. Tried to warn him. And Airhead, supervisors aren't union.
When I worked at Boeing,our supervisors were union(different local though)..Aircraft industry has sucked for more than a decade...I have no regrets about getting the hell out.
Sorry to hear that Rip..that's gotta hurtright before X-Mas
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Originally posted by Airhead
ra, management is following a path Ripsnort admires- close down your own maintence facilities and sub contract out the work to an out of country facility.
On the bright side, though, Rip's brother in law can replace his 80,000 dollar a year supervisor position with four 20,000 dollar a year food service jobs- Starbucks in the morning, Subway in the afternoon, Outback in the evening and Denny's at night.
Who says this Administration isn't creating jobs?
Sorry about the job loss for Rips friend.
But sometimes when the truth hits close enough to home, a light goes off in your head and you see the light.
Airhead you left out the option of going back to college.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Rip, you should be celebrating- after all, your brother in law was probably Union, and we all know how lazy THOSE guys are.
They deserve to get the rug pulled out from them, right?
You didn't see the "Management" part? He was management.
His company is soon to be the way of the dinosaur operationally speaking. They probably should have paid more attention to the Jet Blue or SW Airlines model.
The airline industry has reported losses of about $30bn since the attacks on 11 September 2001, which depressed demand for the already struggling airlines.
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Airtard pwn3d!!!11`!
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I'm kinda with Airhead here - why are you surprised? Did you let your brother-in-law know you helped swing the axe?
Just keep buying those WalMart trinkets and help sell the US to China 98 cents at a time. Capitalism is wonderful in the US - hell you can even sell the US - WalMart is doing it.
Again - why are you surprised?
Well at least his $600 tax rebate from Bush will keep his head above water...
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Well I hope his bro isn't reading this board...
Anyways if the company doesn't make profit then some hard decisions have to be made; after all you're not living in a communistic country where state runs the companies and backs them up.
Things like that happen all the time all over the world; too bad your bro was one who got the boot but **** happens.
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btw I hope he's having somekind of insurance for the case of unemployment? Kinda like medical insurance you buy or the company you work for offers to you?
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
They probably should have paid more attention to the Jet Blue or SW Airlines model.
JetBlue not doing so hot lately. Their bill is coming due.
dago
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Originally posted by Octavius
Airtard pwn3d!!!11`!
Me? Actually it's Rip's brother in law who got owned Octardius. He invested a career that's going down the toilet through no fault of his own- and it should alarm every single one of you who works in a job that could possibly be outsourced.
Part of the agenda of the Great Conservative Dream Ripsnort believes in puts profit before people, and lowering barriers to allow outsourcing, or passing anti labor regulations, or doing away with OSHA protections will increase profits....
And that's the bottom line.
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I feel that when someone makes a post regarding a personal or family matter, I tend to cut them a lot of slack.
Maybe it's just me, but I feel that people taking cheap shots at RIP in this matter are pretty heartless and vindictive
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Originally posted by Staga
...Anyways if the company doesn't make profit then some hard decisions have to be made; after all you're not living in a communistic country where state runs the companies and backs them up.
No we're not communist, but the government does step in and bailout big corporations occasionally. How much was floated to the airlines after 9/11 to keep them solvent? Hundreds of millions? What was AA's share?
How much is naming rights to the American Airlines Center in Dallas costing the company? Is that really what the taxpayer's money should be spent on?
Wonder how much the CEO and executive management team make? I bet they'll still have a Merry Christmas, no matter what.
Sorry to hear about your brother-in-law, Rip. No person who works for a living has job security these days.
Btw, well said, Airhead.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Me? Actually it's Rip's brother in law who got owned Octardius. He invested a career that's going down the toilet through no fault of his own- and it should alarm every single one of you who works in a job that could possibly be outsourced.
Would you have the same advice for those who built Hudsons or Studebakers?
(http://www.4wheelz.com/hudson/hornet/hudson_hornet_1951_2.jpg)
(http://68rscamaro.com/studebaker/studebaker01.jpg)
Nothing to do with outsourcing... sometimes business models just do not work.
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Working for an airline, I have seen a lot of great people lose their jobs. Many good friends. It is a very sad thing to see. We don't have hardly anyone under 40 yrs of age left in my company. Where will the employees come from in 10-15 years? No longer are there young guys working their way up and learing the ropes, so to say.
Aviation has always been a cyclical industry, good times and bad. Only now we wonder if, not as much when, the good times might ever return.
dago
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Sorry to hear about that Rip but thats the way of aviation. Skilled manual or technical jobs in labour intensive areas (e.g avaition maintenance, production etc) will be dead meat in the west soon.
I'm in Thailand supporting an airline and the Licensed engineers - the guys signing the airplane off who are just as good and just as qualified as any others I have met - are getting $640 PER MONTH ......... PER MONTH .
Lets just say the standard of living for them is not what a mech in the US or UK would accept.
If you have a 2000 hr job to do on your 737 then you can afford to fly it a long way and still get change at that rate.
And Rip don't think your degree based job is safe - my brother in the UK has just hired 3 degree qualified guys from the former East because they would work for 2/3 of a UK person and were over the moon. Thats the free market way.
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I disagree, NUKE- I'm not heartless because I genuinely feel bad for Rip's BIL, and I'm not vindictive because I genuinely like Ripsnort and respect his parenting and devotion to his family. Sheeesh.
Rip, my apologies if you felt I was attacking you; it wasn't intended. So, let me start again-
It's unfortunate so many people are losing their jobs due to outsourcing, NAFTA loopholes, or trade agreements that allow foreign nations access to our markets with the competitive advantage of having no benefits and no minimum wage.
There, NUKE- no mention of administration policies towards labor. You happy now?
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Airhead, I don't think you are heartless but I also feel that there is no reason to use this post as ammo for a past argument against Rip.
Too me, it just comes off as vindictive. Nash too. I like both of you but I disagree with how you have responded to this post.
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wow....
I wonder how some of you would have responded if he would have said his mother had a life threatening medical problem that stem cell research might have helped with.
ridiculous :mad:
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You sayin' stem cell research can save the airline industry?
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Interesting few comments in here.
First off, sorry to hear about the layoff, it's gotta suck.
with no disrespect to the loss, ya and then?
I fired a guy today. Short version, I'm a meanie for letting the guy go. Long version, I hired 2 and bought about 15k in equipment. Life's funny like that.
Oddly enough, I never consulted the administration on these decisions, so can't blame Bush for the guy losing his job nor praise Bush for the 15k expenditures and the 2 jobs created. Frankly, those were my decisions based on my needs and my efforts.
I sent one lead guy to LA yesterday, gonna fly him back Sunday. I chose an airline based on the value I placed on the trip. Didn't consult the administration then either, and for the one airline I did chose, that left about 9 I didn't chose. Well, ya, so things like that happen. At some point, most people will chose something other than what you might be involved in, then things close down. Life's like that.
I've seen a great deal of comments over the years that revolve around "Gee you just can't keep a job long term anymore" and Choice is a bad thing? Sorry, but the jobs you kept for life were things like coal miner and train track layer or brick layer. There were fewer major changes in jobs "back then" as there were fewer things going on. People still lost jobs, because you can't change nature and some people are just idiots. You didn't see massive changes in an entire industry simply because industry expansion was slower. The steel industry held for generations, but now you can extrude plastic in your garage so the manufacturing industry changes rapidly. The majority of those complaining about the loss of the old jobs are also the ones that complained the most about the working conditions and emmissions that the old industries created. Ok, so, they won, deal with the results.
You can't complain about it, just deal with it. Or don't, those of us that are moving and growing need licensed broom operators as well. Well, that is until the robots are more economical, so best sweep while you can. And while you're sweeping, learn to lube robots, because you're gonna need to know things like that.
Employees are demanding 30-50 per hour and a clean environment and pristine benefits, and this is ok, I'm not opposed to that desire. The masses want the toaster for $12.00. China has no labor laws and environmental laws, and can produce the toaster for $5.00 and make a few bucks, the US firms are required to invest in pension plans, high tech manufacturing plants with sirens and space suits so no one gets hurt, and can produce the same toaster for $135.95. Don't blame WalMart, Blame the masses for not paying for the $135.95 toaster. Walmart should Not be in business because the consumer is demanding the price? Somehow the US should subsidise the toaster maybe? Or Force the import fees on the China product and tack on 130 bucks to artificially create a comperable priced toaster?
Some would say, Ya, Great idea. Ok, what does the government do with that 130 bucks? Better yet, how about this, toasters are Crazy at 130 bucks so screw it, lets eat cold bread or toast it in the pan and the toaster industry dies for lack of common sense.
Don't you get it? You cannot "create" and support an artificial market. You build a better toaster or some clever out of work airline mechanic comes up with the secret to baking pre-toasted bread because he is out of work and has some time to kill. (Bet you wondered how I was going to come full circle to the mechanic didn't you)
Sometimes it would almost be funny to imagine life back in 1850 and Congress enacted legislation protecting the wagon wheel makers.
2 types of people in life. Those who see a loss as a bad thing, and those who see a loss as an opportunity. No matter how you expand or ammend, those 2 foundations are always the choice.
[edited because I spelled "idiots" wrong, ain't that just a kicker?]
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well said ROCrats.
The problem I had was with the people that seemed to gleefully use it to "poke a finger" in the eye of Rip in order to expand a past argument.
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Ya, I hear ya.
No reason for that, hell most take this stuff far too seriously, I was giggling while typing most of this :)
It's fun to be me.
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Ahhh the voice of modern management - sweet music .......
So ROC when do the 2 mexicans living in a cardboard box under the freeway start using the asbestos shredder you bought ???
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"past argument?" Are you serious NUKE? Sheeesh, I can disagree with a political POV without having to dislike somebody, can't I?
"wow....
I wonder how some of you would have responded if he would have said his mother had a life threatening medical problem that stem cell research might have helped with.
ridiculous"
Mosgood- I am in favor of stem cell research. I am also opposed to the Iraq invasion. However, a brother in law losing a job is much less severe than a mother terminally ill, or one of our children killed in Iraq.
You DO understand that, right?
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Originally posted by Airhead
"past argument?" Are you serious NUKE? Sheeesh, I can disagree with a political POV without having to dislike somebody, can't I?
Airhead.... it's just that this post was not a political or opionated post in any way.
You know what I'm saying...you're not dumb...... sheesh.
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Originally posted by Airhead
You DO understand that, right?
Sure I do... so when do you cross the line as to when to just say "gee sorry to hear about that rip..." and when to say "It's all your fault rip . Your brother-in-laws family is having a lean xmas all because of you" ?
YOu were out of line airhead... period. there are times to make your point and there are times to keep your mouth shut.
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Actually,
One of the mexicans was arrested for smuggling pot, so he isn't with me anymore. Oddly enough, when the background checks came in, because we do much work on prisons, they kinda said "Sure, he can come on site"
As for the other one, I just gave him a no interest loan. I spent my money to make sure he had his house in order as it's getting cold and his wife is pregnant. I made sure he got his drivers license back, got his tickets taken care of and his insurance re-activated so he could take advantage of the 2 Dollar an hour raise I just gave him after I promoted him to a Lead Installer position.
Nice young kid, got off to a rough start in L.A. but here in Sacramento, we do things a tad differently.
Now, this is a reward as he is one hell of a good worker, and $17.00 per hour is a good base wage for under 2 years experience, and I will continue to reward him unless he screws up royally and thinks that he is owed one damn thing from me, then it's out on his bellybutton faster than he can fart tequila fumes.
Being in Lead, he has first dibs on the Prevailing Wage projects that we work on, and when those come, his base wage jumps to $26.00 per hour and benefits, and being as they tend to be long distance, get's overtime at that rate for driving because I want 8 hours of work. I "could" pay one way, as that is what the law allows, but I don't, I pay both, it's the right thing to do. Don't confuse that with the Moral right thing to do, it's not morality, it is simply the fact that if I spend a few bucks now, I don't spend Many bucks training new dweebs.
Now, ya, that's modern management. Know where your talent is, and take care of them. Stream line efficiency by getting rid of the lazy schmucks who think I owe them a thing, I don't. This isn't a social program, it's stfu and do your job. I reward effort, and I think I reward it well.
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NUKE. you said I posted to "be vindictive" over past debates with Rip- I'm telling you I didn't. You seem to view any disagreement here as something that must be "gotten even" with- I don't.
Mosgood, I never said "It's all your fault rip . Your brother-in-laws family is having a lean xmas all because of you" so please, don't make up quotes and attribute them to me, OK?
You are right, tho- sometimes it is best to say nothing at all, which is what I shoulda done.
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Originally posted by Nash
Maybe if he typed at the internets more during work, his company would be in better shape.
This probably pissed me off the most. What possible reason could someone have to post something so vindictive?
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Originally posted by Airhead
NUKE. you said I posted to "be vindictive" over past debates with Rip- I'm telling you I didn't. You seem to view any disagreement here as something that must be "gotten even" with- I don't.
Mosgood, I never said "It's all your fault rip . Your brother-in-laws family is having a lean xmas all because of you" so please, don't make up quotes and attribute them to me, OK?
You are right, tho- sometimes it is best to say nothing at all, which is what I shoulda done.
Airhead, I actually never mentioned you specifically....although I did not like your posts.
I apoloize for seeming over sensitive. I'm just not one to use personal statements against people. I'm a sissy boy.
This post didn't have an option to argue or dissagree anything h in my opinion.
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Originally posted by NUKE
This probably pissed me off the most. What possible reason could someone have to post something so vindictive?
.... don't confuse "vindictive" with "bad humor." Do you really think Nash harbors grudges against other posters? Sheeesh, Nash is like a goose- he wakes up in a different world every morning. He won't even remember posting that by tomorrow.
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Admit it Airhead, you love me :)
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Metaphorically, I consider geese to be full of chit. The metaphor holds.
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FYI you schmoes's in your pretty pink place called "check six" (ignore the obvious studmuffin reference to anal penertration) this thread is why i don't go there any more.
not a single respectable person, not a single person NOT waiting to be an prettythanghole.
have fun on your high and mighty throne of intardnet greatness, and make fun of other's tragedy, or sorrow.
tis the ONLY way you will ever truly be great, and maybe beat that dragon.
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Originally posted by JB73
FYI you schmoes's in your pretty pink place called "check six" (ignore the obvious studmuffin reference to anal penertration) this thread is why i don't go there any more.
not a single respectable person, not a single person NOT waiting to be an prettythanghole.
have fun on your high and mighty throne of intardnet greatness, and make fun of other's tragedy, or sorrow.
tis the ONLY way you will ever truly be great, and maybe beat that dragon.
I'm on Checksix. I like it.
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So, with that comment, I would have to assume that you are being entertained at least?
"I'm here for entertainment, not a political debate, a discussion on realism of a game, an argument over religion, a choice over paper or plastic, or anything else. © JBoozonics73 Inc."
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Posting what?
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I just gave him a no interest loan. I spent my money to make sure he had his house in order as it's getting cold and his wife is pregnant. I made sure he got his drivers license back, got his tickets taken care of and his insurance re-activated
So you have him nicely indebted to you so he is good and 'loyal'
2 Dollar an hour raise I just gave him after I promoted him to a Lead Installer position.
So you "gave" him a raise when he is actually taking on more responsibility - my you are generous.
Now, this is a reward as he is one hell of a good worker, and $17.00 per hour is a good base wage for under 2 years experience, and I will continue to reward him unless he screws up royally and thinks that he is owed one damn thing from me, then it's out on his bellybutton faster than he can fart tequila fumes.
$17 an hour in Cali - wow he can live like a king. "reward him" ?? he isn't a dog - the deal is he works and you pay. Last comment makes it clear you view his ethnicity as equal to white US born :rolleyes:
his base wage jumps to $26.00 per hour and benefits,
So at $17 an hour there's no benefits - like health ?? nice.
get's overtime at that rate for driving because I want 8 hours of work. I "could" pay one way, as that is what the law allows, but I don't, I pay both, it's the right thing to do. Don't confuse that with the Moral right thing to do, it's not morality, it is simply the fact that if I spend a few bucks now, I don't spend Many bucks training new dweebs.
So he is using his time to travel to do your work and you feel rightious about paying his travel time - your generosity abounds. Once again the dweebs comment proves your view of your workers.
Now, ya, that's modern management. ............. This isn't a social program, it's stfu and do your job. I reward effort, and I think I reward it well.
As you say - it's modern management.
That's why I contract work - I come across management like that and can say "screw you" and find another contract.
This isn't about lazy schmucks - it's about us losing jobs to foriegn countries where the workers doing our job are working in conditions we considered years ago to be unacceptable - things like safety and healthcare - you know - trivia.
Hangar I'm at now doesn't have steps with rails on to get on the aircraft - ever fallen from an Airbus door carrying a toolbox - it hurts. Got to work on an wing - no harness - no problem.
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ROC, what happened was BB73 lamented on CheckSix.Net his inability to find female companionship. Being the good comrades we are we offered him all kinds of advice, but the problem is that none of us at CheckSix.Net are any luckier in love than BB73 is, so... our advice was really bad, and BB73 got pissed off. He left in a huff with what has to be the greatest I Quit post EVAR, and since then he likes to take potshots at us.
Appropiate he'd take one here, in a thread about vindictiveness.
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Originally posted by Sparks
This isn't about lazy schmucks - it's about us losing jobs to foriegn countries...
Since 2001, the airline industry has lost $15 billion in revenue. Industry revenue stands at $91 billion per year. Competition for revenue is fiercer than ever. Low-cost carriers like Southwest Airlines, JetBlue Airways and AirTran rule. They make up 30% of the market, up from 9% in 1991.
Southwest does its maintenance in Dallas, Pheonix, Houston, Baltimore, Chicago, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Oakland, and Tampa Bay. As I recall, these are all cities in the USA and they must follow domestic employment practice. SW employs a domestic labor force for all other jobs as well, and still operates more profitably than the old line carriers.
AA, Delta, United and US Airways aren't losing because they don't outsource jobs, they are losing because jet fuel costs more and Southwest has a better business model so it can still profit from smaller margins.
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Originally posted by JB73
FYI you schmoes's in your pretty pink place called "check six" (ignore the obvious studmuffin reference to anal penertration) this thread is why i don't go there any more.
not a single respectable person, not a single person NOT waiting to be an prettythanghole.
have fun on your high and mighty throne of intardnet greatness, and make fun of other's tragedy, or sorrow.
tis the ONLY way you will ever truly be great, and maybe beat that dragon.
LMAO!
Thats why im there dude! to post stuff and laugh at myself!
To bad YOU take YOURSELF to serious!. Maybe you will grow up someday and understand.
And as Airhead said, we offered advice, you apparantly took it as a personal attack or something, but that shows what kind of person you are.
And i find it sad, i really like your style mostly. But you meltdown alot.
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I just gave him a no interest loan. I spent my money to make sure he had his house in order as it's getting cold and his wife is pregnant. I made sure he got his drivers license back, got his tickets taken care of and his insurance re-activated
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So you have him nicely indebted to you so he is good and 'loyal'
**No, he is not indebted. He is helped. I could have done nothing. I didn't screw up his insurance and licence, I did reward him for putting out effort. You are the kind of person that will complain regardless. Think about this, he could not get a loan, his credit is shot. Guess I could have just said, fix it our leave. You are quickly changing my mind, you might be right, I probably made a mistake. Better to just let them go to the "guv" and get help. Not my problem. I think tomorrow I'll recind the loan and stipulate that he has 24 hours to fix his license or he is fired. I can't use a non licensed driver, My insurance will be too high.
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2 Dollar an hour raise I just gave him after I promoted him to a Lead Installer position.
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So you "gave" him a raise when he is actually taking on more responsibility - my you are generous.
**I gave him the opportunity to take on more responsibility, that he actually did not think he could do, and I showed him he could. Yep, bad me for promoting a positive view. Shame on my sorry ass. You are gonna be my new pet project. I didn't have to promote him, I chose to. Did I forget to get the proper permission from someone like...oh I don't know, you perhaps? Should I have filled out a form and had an oversight committee make sure I promoted him properly?
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Now, this is a reward as he is one hell of a good worker, and $17.00 per hour is a good base wage for under 2 years experience, and I will continue to reward him unless he screws up royally and thinks that he is owed one damn thing from me, then it's out on his bellybutton faster than he can fart tequila fumes.
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$17 an hour in Cali - wow he can live like a king. "reward him" ?? he isn't a dog - the deal is he works and you pay. Last comment makes it clear you view his ethnicity as equal to white US born
***Live like a King? He's not a king, he was an unskilled worker when he came to me making minimum wage. I trained him, I promoted him, I spent 3 hours before he showed up and 4 hours after he left making Damned sure he had a job to come to the next day. He is making MORE than any union shop around including benefits for his category. Bite me, and do better. Most weeks these boys make more than I do, and I have no problem with that. Unfortunately, there are far too many people in the world who think that for some reason, they have an opinion of how someone else should treat someone else.
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his base wage jumps to $26.00 per hour and benefits,
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So at $17 an hour there's no benefits - like health ?? nice.
***Again, you are clueless. Yes, he has health, but at prevailing wage he get's more benefits. Mind you, it cost's me Much more to sign and manage a prevailing wage project than a standard wage project. The Staff does not make more handling the 6x increase in paperwork, I do not make a Dime more, and the only ones who benefit are the laborors. It's a bonus and a reward for effort.
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get's overtime at that rate for driving because I want 8 hours of work. I "could" pay one way, as that is what the law allows, but I don't, I pay both, it's the right thing to do. Don't confuse that with the Moral right thing to do, it's not morality, it is simply the fact that if I spend a few bucks now, I don't spend Many bucks training new dweebs.
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So he is using his time to travel to do your work and you feel rightious about paying his travel time - your generosity abounds. Once again the dweebs comment proves your view of your workers.
***No, the dweebs comment proves my point about Dweebs. I fire them, they are worthless to me. I didn't screw their momma, I don't owe them squat.
Do you get paid to drive to your job?
(answer this one please)
I pay my guys to drive to and from. I don't have to, I chose to. They are responsible to get to the jobsite, I am not responsible to get them their, I chose to perk them. Frankly, you are proving to me that regardless of what I do, it's a waste of time, some of you morons will never be satisfied, so I might be wasting my time afterall. I think I just found a way to shave about 10% off my budgets, THANKS!!! I'll make sure they find you here :)
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Now, ya, that's modern management. ............. This isn't a social program, it's stfu and do your job. I reward effort, and I think I reward it well.
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As you say - it's modern management.
That's why I contract work - I come across management like that and can say "screw you" and find another contract.
This isn't about lazy schmucks - it's about us losing jobs to foriegn countries where the workers doing our job are working in conditions we considered years ago to be unacceptable - things like safety and healthcare - you know - trivia.
Hangar I'm at now doesn't have steps with rails on to get on the aircraft - ever fallen from an Airbus door carrying a toolbox - it hurts. Got to work on an wing - no harness - no problem.
***Hanger your at now doesn't have steps with rails? Geez man, call the CIA it's a conspiracy, but watch your step when you walk down the stairs, or you might fall off. For crying out loud man LMAO mankind has progressed for thousands of years being hunted in the wilds by tigers and bears and crap, walked the forests buck nekkid while fending off predators, floated hundreds of miles across oceans powered by wind, survived wars and attrocities unimaginable, engineered and built structures beyond compare but Look Out, Good God the worlds going to end, You don't have a stair rail. LMFAO!!! Ever fallen off an airbus with a toolbox? No, I can't say I have, nor would ever admit it if I did!! How the F*** do you fall out of a plane? Good Grief man, you don't look and it's some corporate *******s fault?? Oh I love people like you.
WTF does that have to do with anything? When I was about 18 (41 now) I was unloading flat bed trucks, and some moron drove the forklift onto the load and knocked me off. I had 2 choices, go to congress and enact a law to prevent idiots from driving forklifts, then add rails to the flat beds, and have a harness on the pallets so they wouldn't move. The other choice was to get up and beat the crap out of the IDIOT that can't drive a lift.
Which one did I chose?
My industry is being bombarded by cheap chinese knockoffs. So what? WTF do I care? I can compete against them. I do better work, and I put out a better product. If I have a customer that wants price price price then I walk, I don't need them. I don't want a customer that only wants price. I need customers that want long term dependabilty, that understand quality over quantity.
I also grew sales from 2.5 to 5 mil in 2 years. Not bad for the strongest competition coming from overseas. Grow some balls and get off the whine wagon, it's a waste of energy and effort. You fell into a trap, you got sold a bill of goods that it's someone elses fault.
***I don't have any control over what other countries do. I do have control over what I do, what I buy, who I chose to do business with. Don't blame me cause you are bitter, and I'd be careful making assumptions about people when so far your opinions are based on something you pulled out of your left ear and not even remotely close to reality.
Dude lmao, you are Way off base
I like your world, it's cute.
__________________
"get in touch with your inner bastard"
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Do I get paid to go to and from site - if the site isn't my fixed base yes - all of it.
I'm not the sort who will complain regardless - in fact the US company I work for now is very good. No arguements about anything and a bit of give and take.
Don't tell me you helped the guy out of the goodness of your heart - it was cheaper easier and less risk than getting a new guy training him and finding he is worthless. The great philanthropist tag doesn't wash here.
Again you didn't promote the guy out of charity - you knew he could do the job and wanted him to take on more responsibity so you promoted him. In return for doing more you pay him more - kind of simple really. Really don't know where the permission and committee stuff is coming from ???
So you work longer hours than your employees - big deal it's your business and your choice. You make it sound like you do these hours just to make sure they have a job - that's bull**** - you do it to expand the business so it's bigger when you come to sell it.
I wish I had a dollar for every time I've heard the "they make more money than me" crap. So when you sell a $5 mil turnover business you won't make anything LOL.
You're right - as long as you pay the wages and benefits as per contract you don't owe them squat but likewise as long as they do the work agreed in the contract of employment they don't owe you squat. You seem to get off on the fact that by complying with the terms of a contract you entered into freely with an employee and by complying with employment law you are some great benefactor. Employee / employer relationship is a business agreement like any other.
***Hanger your at now doesn't have steps with rails? Geez man, call the CIA it's a conspiracy, but watch your step when you walk down the stairs, or you might fall off. For crying out loud man LMAO mankind has progressed for thousands of years being hunted in the wilds by tigers and bears and crap, walked the forests buck nekkid while fending off predators, floated hundreds of miles across oceans powered by wind, survived wars and attrocities unimaginable, engineered and built structures beyond compare but Look Out, Good God the worlds going to end, You don't have a stair rail. LMFAO!!! Ever fallen off an airbus with a toolbox? No, I can't say I have, nor would ever admit it if I did!! How the F*** do you fall out of a plane? Good Grief man, you don't look and it's some corporate *******s fault?? Oh I love people like you.
Ahh now we get the often used "natural selection" arguement about safety. Many years ago it was agreed that workers can expect reasonable safety standards at the work place - you can take whatever chances you want if it is your neck and business but I don't see why I should risk my neck for your business because you don't want to spend the money to make it safer - not risk free just reasonably safe.
WTF does that have to do with anything? When I was about 18 (41 now) I was unloading flat bed trucks, and some moron drove the forklift onto the load and knocked me off. I had 2 choices, go to congress and enact a law to prevent idiots from driving forklifts, then add rails to the flat beds, and have a harness on the pallets so they wouldn't move. The other choice was to get up and beat the crap out of the IDIOT that can't drive a lift.
Which one did I chose?
go to congress ???? You like the extremes don't you ....... Or maybe you had a third choice which was to change the way you worked so you weren't stood on the edge of the truck when the forklift arrived - don't need congress for that.
My industry is being bombarded by cheap chinese knockoffs. So what? WTF do I care? I can compete against them. I do better work, and I put out a better product. If I have a customer that wants price price price then I walk, I don't need them. I don't want a customer that only wants price. I need customers that want long term dependabilty, that understand quality over quantity.
Sounds like a solid strategy to me. You're in the fortunate postion of being able to find a niche market - it may not last however.
I'm not whining about any bill of goods but looking at the big picture. All is well in your world - you can still compete by niche marketing and your business is growing - WTG. But lets say you get an offer from the chinese government - they will build you a factory in an area where there is good quality labour at 30% of what you are paying and no benefits requirements. You can now make the same product that you are now to the same quality for 40-50% of what it costs now ........... you gonna keep your US production facility or move ?????
You miss my point - YOU don't owe your workers a job - no-one owes me a job - my skills and work ethic are what keep me employed. However over the last 100-200 years we have built in our countries a working environment, and standard of living that goes with it, that we collectively find acceptable. To keep what we have we NEED people working.
Aviation is an industry where niche marketing doesn't apply and there are others. We are losing work to companies operating in societies where living standards are way below ours and work regimes we classed as unacceptable 50 years ago.
Your answer to this is to wind the clock back in the west 50-100 years and return to 3rd world working conditions so we can compete. Look out of your door for a minute and consider what your grand kids might be doing after they finish college.
Quite honestly my world isn't cute its F*****g depressing actually and the management style you seem to glorify in doesn't improve it.
Let me summarize - I work in an economy where we ALL agreed what the standards we ALL consider acceptable were in terms of standard of living and safety. These standards are not recent but the product of 100's of years of industrial progress. Now the choice is lose your ability to work (trade services) or face a massive drop in standard of living ??? YOU don't owe me a job - we owe it to OURSELVES to protect our standards.
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(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/826_1102154803_saintclinton.com_01a.jpg)
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Originally posted by Airhead
Rip, you should be celebrating- after all, your brother in law was probably Union, and we all know how lazy THOSE guys are.
They deserve to get the rug pulled out from them, right?
Do you have paid holidays at your work? Do you have OSHA? Do you have paid vacations and a 40 hour work week with overtime afterwords? If you have any of them you can thank the unions.
But enjoy them while they last, even the uper management at my work is scared at what is going to happen in the next 4 years.
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Originally posted by Gyro/T69
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/826_1102154803_saintclinton.com_01a.jpg)
Precisely gyro. I knew that when that happened that our standards would be comming way the fck down.
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Sorry to here that Rip. Not pleasant, especially around the Holidays.
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At the risk of being crude..................
"My sisters ex husband
can't get no lovin'
walks around dog faced and hurt.
Now he's got nothin'
head in the oven
I can't decide which is worse"
TP
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And in response to the original post....
Truly sorry to hear that Rip. It's never a good time, but right now has to be the worst time. I hope everything works out for the best for them.
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Originally posted by Airhead
ROC, what happened was BB73 lamented on CheckSix.Net his inability to find female companionship. Being the good comrades we are we offered him all kinds of advice, but the problem is that none of us at CheckSix.Net are any luckier in love than BB73 is, so... our advice was really bad, and BB73 got pissed off. He left in a huff with what has to be the greatest I Quit post EVAR, and since then he likes to take potshots at us.
Appropiate he'd take one here, in a thread about vindictiveness.
i dont know whether to be proud or pissed at your comments LMFAO
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>>Don't blame WalMart, Blame the masses for not paying for the $135.95 toaster. Walmart should Not be in business because the consumer is demanding the price? Somehow the US should subsidise the toaster maybe? Or Force the import fees on the China product and tack on 130 bucks to artificially create a comperable priced toaster?
<<
I'm just asking for a big red label on any imported item stating exactly how many American jobs were lost in its manufacture. If WalMart is strictly price and demand, I'm sure they won't mind letting people know how many of the products on their shelves are made in China.
Perhaps a big blue label on American made items, and how many jobs it created in its manufacture. See, I think more people WOULD buy American if the choice was simply laid out. WalMart's business is obscurring the choice.
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Originally posted by Airhead
Mosgood, I never said "It's all your fault rip . Your brother-in-laws family is having a lean xmas all because of you" so please, don't make up quotes and attribute them to me, OK?
your right. ok
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Southwest does its maintenance in Dallas, Pheonix, Houston, Baltimore, Chicago, Las Vegas, Los Angeles, Oakland, and Tampa Bay. As I recall, these are all cities in the USA and they must follow domestic employment practice. SW employs a domestic labor force for all other jobs as well, and still operates more profitably than the old line carriers.
AA, Delta, United and US Airways aren't losing because they don't outsource jobs, they are losing because jet fuel costs more and Southwest has a better business model so it can still profit from smaller margins.
If I understand correctly, Southwest only does line maintenance in those cities, it outsources the heavy checks. These are the costly checks, that really eat up the manhours and require substantial maintenance facilities.
You can bet AA, United and USAirways is outsourcing heavy checks now too. I know AA and UAL are, and I would imagine US Air is too.
A lot more involved than just simply saying "business model".
dago
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
>>Don't blame WalMart, Blame the masses for not paying for the $135.95 toaster. Walmart should Not be in business because the consumer is demanding the price? Somehow the US should subsidise the toaster maybe? Or Force the import fees on the China product and tack on 130 bucks to artificially create a comperable priced toaster?
<<
I'm just asking for a big red label on any imported item stating exactly how many American jobs were lost in its manufacture. If WalMart is strictly price and demand, I'm sure they won't mind letting people know how many of the products on their shelves are made in China.
Perhaps a big blue label on American made items, and how many jobs it created in its manufacture. See, I think more people WOULD buy American if the choice was simply laid out. WalMart's business is obscurring the choice.
IMO ( i say that because some of you will be warming up the jets and loading the napalm soon) .....
A big red label won't do a thing in the long run. It won't take long before people won't care because they won't be able to afford the more expensive "american" product because the rest of the world is buying the cheaper one. So the american company that employs americans and pays them more, just took a hit on the world market because less countires are buying there products and now the company needs to either, move jobs to china to make cheaper goods or lower thier costs in operating in the U.S. to compete (drop wages).
There really isn't a good way out of this. China has cheaper labor because it has a population that doesn't NEED to be paid more.
American's spend a buttload of money to sustain our quality of life and demand that our elected officials do whatever they can to better the quality of life, or they are out.
How much less does a chinaman need to live on compared to an american?
How many chinaman have a car? Pay car insurance? Hell pay health insurance (i really don't know),
The wages that american's require to keep thier quality of life IS the problem Not destroying free trade. If we do that, we are undercutting a big motivator of business... competition as well as only delaying the inevitable. Cutting off supplies of cheaper costing products will not stand very long with the american public anyways.
I'm really starting to worry that america has stretch how high the average quality of life standard can go with our current political setup and will soon be rubberbanded back to a much lower QofL very soon.
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well... I might be part of the problem... I will do just about anything these days in order not to fly... Flying has become about the worst traveling experiance a person can have... packed and hard to get to and security that is bizzare and intrusive and the feeling of wasted time.. it is a singularly uncomfortable experiance for me.
If I never get on another commercial flight I will be happy.
lazs
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Originally posted by mosgood
your right. ok
...No, you were right- I reread the thread this morning, and I came accross as insensitive. I should have said nothing at all or started a seperate thread to stand on my Labor soapbox.
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No Airhead, you can't start a thread to get a specific response, they evolve when the right/wrong buttons are pushed and take on a life of their own.
Sparks has good points, and I know his base, hell many of the Unions supported my election when I ran, based on the working conditions I provide and encourage.
I do, of course, have more points however at this moment I am at the office getting the crews ready to go out to a job site. They asked me if they could work some OT before the holidays, and I agreed. I can't wait to get done so I can create more sparks :)
Yes, the work needs to get done, and Yes, it could be done during the week, but I am being compassionate and letting them earn a few xtra bucks. God I am evil.
Mind you, yes I know it does help out in the long run, by easing the pressure we are under, but I don't have to. I could just as easily put the pressure on the normal work day, but it's in the budget and I have opted to come in on a weekend, while the family is home, warm, watching Harry Potter over breakfast.
I'm going to go be a bastard now and help them get the trucks ready
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Sorry to hear that RIP, give him our best.
As some of you know my wife is a flight attendant with AA. Her pay and benifits were cut pretty deeply and her schedule extended. She went to work for AA in 1972 and has seen the company make it in good and bad times. Some of the current problems are internal (management) and some are external (compition). We don't think AA is a dead company, we do think it is a company that is in transistion.
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Originally posted by Silat
Sorry about the job loss for Rips friend.
But sometimes when the truth hits close enough to home, a light goes off in your head and you see the light.
So what is the light Silat? Your not going to try and put the blame on Bush again are you?
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Originally posted by ROCrats
Interesting few comments in here.
[edited because I spelled "idiots" wrong, ain't that just a kicker?]
Hey ROC ! long time no see :)
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>>There really isn't a good way out of this. China has cheaper labor because it has a population that doesn't NEED to be paid more.
<<
This makes it more complicated than it needs to be. YES - China is great for human rights violations and still have sweat shops for children, carefully hidden from WalMart reps who aren't that interested in finding out anyway. I imagine China could cut labor cost to next to nothing if they wanted to. Thats the benifit of tyranny - cheap labor. And yes we could get into the morality of ANY industrialized country importing the products of slave labor, carefully disguised for people who don't really want to see anyway.
But all I'm saying is CLEARLY mark imported items and how many jobs it cost Americans. Its not much to ask unless a retailer wants to obscure what they are doing.
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Originally posted by Krusher
We don't think AA is a dead company, we do think it is a company that is in transistion.
I hope your right, Krusher. That was my opinion, not his.
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Rip,
sorry about your bro's loss. Hope he finds work soon.
IMHO, this thread's replies are mostly in horid taste. Airhead, you need to grow up, those blaming the current administration for the airline's situation need to look at who deregulated the airlines, and the other's thinking it's funny that a Bush Supporter's brother lost a job need to sit back and think about your attitude.
Sheesh, this board has gone so far low it disgusts even me.
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
[B But all I'm saying is CLEARLY mark imported items and how many jobs it cost Americans. Its not much to ask unless a retailer wants to obscure what they are doing. [/B]
Tweety,
I don't think that will make one bit of difference to the average, and the vast majority of consumers.
I worked as head of Global Supply Chain and Sourcing for a Consumer Products company and the data doesn't lie.
The Point of Sale data that the retailers use to help shape their buying decisions, that is.
Every foot on a retail shelf has to generate so much revenue. If the product put there costs more and the consumer doesn't buy it, then that shelf space is now costing money, not generating it.
Try to blame the retailers all you want, but the fact is WalMart would not be the single biggest retailer in the world, if the buying public cared about where the goods were made instead of how much the goods cost.
And it's not just the US. Every major consumer products manufacturer in the world has operations in China and the Far East. Many European manufacturers do the same.
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Originally posted by Stringer
Try to blame the retailers all you want, but the fact is WalMart would not be the single biggest retailer in the world, if the buying public cared about where the goods were made instead of how much the goods cost.
That is the truth. The public only asks "how much". Not much else enters the equation.
Same with airlines, if you offered the flying public a seat on "Jihad Airlines" at 25% less than the other carriers, "Jihad Airlines" would sell every seat. They wouldn't bother to question anything about the airline.
dago
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Is rocrats mr black?
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This thread started pointless, and has become ridiculous.
Sixpence worked in mrb; and Bodhi, you should know better, it wasn’t a post about someone’s misfortune. Read into the troll, and don't feed him. It's a responce 'trap'.
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1) KrusherDood!! Happy Holidays bud, good to see you hanging out. I still get the old squad spam mail and love it :)
2) Who is MrB
3) Am I really supposed to give a purple flying monkeys left bellybutton cheek who MrB is?
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Sorry to hear about your Brother-in-law Ripsnort.
He should do fine tho if he is as experienced as I think he is with the position he has.
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Looks like a lot of people showing very little class. WTG. :rolleyes:
A lot of comments both pro and con about airline workers being the problem but not one about lagging ticket sales. If you don't sell the seat, revenue goes down. Lots of reasons for loss of airline ticket sales including cyclical traveling trends.
Not all reasons for a business failure can be tied to your favorite bisiness boogieman.
Rip sorry about your brother in law, I hope he gets another position soon.
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Originally posted by Creamo
Sixpence worked in mrb
Well, now that you're here............
4th and 26!!
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Rip,
sorry about your bro's loss. Hope he finds work soon.
IMHO, this thread's replies are mostly in horid taste. Airhead, you need to grow up, those blaming the current administration for the airline's situation need to look at who deregulated the airlines,
I agree Bodhi, I'd come in from an evening out drinking beers and saw Rip's post and responded in knee jerk fashion to his political personna instead of responding to the plight of his brother in law. It came across much harsher than intended.
However, grow up? I'm too old to start growing up now.
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What a sweet apology.
In such a dumb thread.
Airhead... I just bought some wool, some knitting needles, and some fine ferns. Wanna make macrome plant holders together sometime?
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>>I agree Bodhi, I'd come in from an evening out drinking beers and saw Rip's post and responded in knee jerk fashion to his political personna instead of responding to the plight of his brother in law. It came across much harsher than intended.
<<
IMO no one died or became gravely ill, so the point is fair game. I don't expect condolances from tales of my plight during the 1980's oil field bust. One of the points of the election was loss of jobs, and one point of rhetoric was the creation of jobs. So they happen to be flipping hamburgers. It's easy to laugh at and blame the poor people flipping hamburgers until it hits home.
As dire as it may seem, the US has safety nets. Rips brother-in-law may have to cut off cable, dsl, or private schools, but he probably won't be in the street trying to meet the basic needs of life (food water shelter). People that make our tennis shoes should have it so easy. But hell, why worry about them - someone's losing their cable tv.
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Originally posted by Nash
What a sweet apology.
In such a dumb thread.
Airhead... I just bought some wool, some knitting needles, and some fine ferns. Wanna make macrome plant holders together sometime?
That sounds great, Nash- after that maybe we can take a walk on the beach and I can search for the missing barbell? ;)
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Originally posted by Nash
Airhead... I just bought some wool, some knitting needles, and some fine ferns. Wanna make macrome plant holders together sometime?
Nash seems to know a lot about knitting.....might be fun Airhead.
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Originally posted by Sixpence
Well, now that you're here............
4th and 26!!
Doh! Well for christs sake, I wasn't playing DB for the Packers last year, nor was I the Defensive coordinator, but this does lead into a interesting weekend in the 'ol NFL.
I do know the Seahawks fans unlike the Monday after week three aren't posting "who will lose the last game of 2004"making them Super Bowl contenders any more, but are just making excuses. Which is rich, and funnay.
However, if the Pack pulls this one off, I'll be like rpmhat on a Bush mistep. I'll be sure to post all about it, and no one will care. Would be nice to be able to do that though, and put that 26 **** to rest.
Cheers.
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mav... my post was about ticket sales.... I won't buy one if there is any other choice... most people I know feel the same. I don't even want to go pick up people at the airport. It is as bad of an experiance as one can have these days.
lazs
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Originally posted by Nash
What a sweet apology.
In such a dumb thread.
Airhead... I just bought some wool, some knitting needles, and some fine ferns. Wanna make macrome plant holders together sometime?
You left out the "barbell" portion too. You two are perfect for each other.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Krusher
So what is the light Silat? Your not going to try and put the blame on Bush again are you?
I blame whoever is responsible Krusher. Doesnt matter which party. Unlike you:) We the people gave the airlines billions. The execs made out but Rips brother in law didnt. Oversight is lacking in our gov today.
I want capitalism with rules and "real" oversight.
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The whole point of capitalism is that there is no oversight. Whats good for the wealthy is good for the country.
You are just some dirty lazy red communist bastard. Why, I bet you even support a so-called "living wage" (robbery from the wealthy I tell you, pure ****ing robbery!) and health care for everyone.
Well Che, when you tell me why some scrubby trailer trash scum deserves health care for only working ONE full time job, when he SHOULD be working two or three full-time jobs pulling himself up out of the gutter (laziness.. pure laziness!) THEN I might support that idea. Until then, I'm sticking to the party line. If they aren't working at least 75 hours a week making rich people more money, they don't deserve ****.
Health care and safety standards and all that crap are just typical "the Man" sticking it to the rich. Why, I bet if we imported a whole bunch of foreigners and paid them under the table for less than minimum wage THEY'D be more than happy to work at whatever job we told them to, AND we wouldn't have to give them health benefits (hell, any benefits at all, think of the savings!!!). Boy, that would be GREAT for the economy!
Why can't people see that? If the most wealthy 5% of the country could just somehow get control over the 20% of the country's wealth they don't already have, our economy would be in GREAT shape.
I think we outta relieve the tax burden on the rich to. It simply isn't fair that they have to pay all this money for stuff they never even use. Make it a reverse sliding scale. Anyone making <30,000 pays 100% taxes (to their employer, just to make it simple), <50,000 pays a very reasonable 60%, and anything over that is untaxable. Think of all the money that would flow back into our country once people could stop shifting their money into off-shore tax havens.
It would be like paradise on earth.
I think I should probably be appointed to be the next Financial Advisor to the President. I'm sure he'd get behind it 110%.
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Originally posted by Urchin
The whole point of capitalism is that there is no oversight. Whats good for the wealthy is good for the country.
I love you man:)
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Urchin is right. The most important problem this country faces today is that the superwealthy simply do not have enough spendable income.
I think we should eliminate the income tax completely for the top 2% of incomes, to be paid for by eliminating the deduction for mortgage interest on homes costing less than $300,000.
If that doesn't quite cover it we should just borrow the money. We're only $7.4 trillion in debt now, so there's still some room left on our national plastic.
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Rip, tell your relative to keep his chin up. The economy is booming, opportunities abound for those who are willing to take a risk.
I was laid off a job last year... started not one but two small businesses and haven't looked back since.
If he is the least be entrepenuerial, he will see a need and get going.
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Pet rocks was entrepreneurish, as was metabolite/ephedrin, spray painted hair, the bar-b-cue grill that used newspaper for that ink smoked flavor, chia pets and don't forget the clapper.
These famous endeavors have brought much to the quality of life in America. "Ignore the 38 hour no befefits work week - we are an entrepenaurial society and home of the clapper"
Clap off
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hehe
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Originally posted by TweetyBird
Pet rocks was entrepreneurish, as was metabolite/ephedrin, spray painted hair, the bar-b-cue grill that used newspaper for that ink smoked flavor, chia pets and don't forget the clapper.
These famous endeavors have brought much to the quality of life in America. "Ignore the 38 hour no befefits work week - we are an entrepenaurial society and home of the clapper"
Clap off
yeah, and what's your point? All these made money.
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Originally posted by NUKE
yeah, and what's your point? All these made money.
LOL Dude, EXACTLY!!! Any one of us can be the next Popiel SuperStar!! SOMEBODY had to invent that Pocket Fisherman!
We don't need minimum wages, healthcare, or economic safety nets as long as we have this great opportunity to invent a self threading needle or a self lubricating butt plug!!
In the immortal words of Tommy Vu... "You don't have the GUTS to be rich!!"
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Originally posted by Creamo
However, if the Pack pulls this one off, I'll be like rpmhat on a Bush mistep. I'll be sure to post all about it, and no one will care. Would be nice to be able to do that though, and put that 26 **** to rest.
Cheers.
I was big on Ahman Green in fantasy drafts, he's killing me right now. Seemed like the Pack didn't show up, their defense sure didn't. I have rarely seen a team come out so flat.
I did have Philly in the pick four pool, but I was out after the one O'clock games. Had Chicago(getting 6), Tampa Bay(giving 3), Miami(getting 4), Philly(giving 6). Buffalo screwed me for a second week in a row, I hate them.
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Don't be too hard on Tweety, Nuke. He's a liberal who has no concept of self reliance. To him, Govt handouts are an entitlement. He could never possibly begin to understand any form of independence. Those who cannot stand on their own, without Goct subsidies, view all others w/ disdain in order to hide their own jealousy.
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Hell if I know Six. Any given Sunday is a catchy phrase, but this is retarded. You would think teams would be better at some regular consistency. I'm just glad to be apart of a thread that started about airline economics, yet still somehow included Hee Haw and the pocket fisherman.
Oh, and I'm a sucker for football, will be glued to a bar table for MNF again, which will pry turn out to be a yawner. It's really hard to watch the Cowboys, but oh well. Bring on the wings.
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I'll swap you a Pocket Fisherman for your Hee Haw DVD, Creamo.
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Originally posted by Stringer
Tweety,
I don't think that will make one bit of difference to the average, and the vast majority of consumers.
I worked as head of Global Supply Chain and Sourcing for a Consumer Products company and the data doesn't lie.
The Point of Sale data that the retailers use to help shape their buying decisions, that is.
Every foot on a retail shelf has to generate so much revenue. If the product put there costs more and the consumer doesn't buy it, then that shelf space is now costing money, not generating it.
I totally disagree with that statement. It is blind thinking like that that is the downfall of many good companies. You sound like the typical MBA type manager who thinks he knows it all and is really missing the big picture.
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Nice try. Ever catch a 12 lb carp in Wisconsin on a pocket fisherman? No thanks.
I'm holding out for a better offer. 70's chicks with wacky big hair in country dress's pie high is just worth more, I think.
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Originally posted by Habu
I totally disagree with that statement. It is blind thinking like that that is the downfall of many good companies. You sound like the typical MBA type manager who thinks he knows it all and is really missing the big picture.
Habu,
You've got me pegged all wrong.
Trust me, I'm not the MBA type nor do I have one, and I don't think I know it all, and it sure the hell isn't blind thinking. It's blind generalizations like yours that always seem to miss the mark.
It all comes from being on the ground and doing it. We had a mix of manufacturing from the US, Far East, Portugal, as well as other places.
I wouldn't mind carrying on a further discussion via e-mail on each of our perspectives and the experiences that have shaped them, if you're interested.
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My problem with your statement about shelfing space being costly real estate that needs to have products that are turning on them.
In theory this sounds resonable. Only put things on the shelf that turn quickly and you will make more money.
However in real life there are many reasons to put items on the shelf that do not turn quickly. The primary reason is to get a customer to come into the store in the first place.
Price and availability of popular products is only part of the equation.
If you create a better shopping experience than your compediter and you have the same basic price comparisons then your store will attract the customer eventually. Many items look nice, create a wonderful atmosphere but only sell occasionally. Think of a display of bright coloured cushions near some garden furniture. Remove them at the expense of cheaper mass market items and you cheapen the shopping experience maybe. People like to shop in a nice environment and what is on the shelf is part of that. Even if they do not buy every product.
Another reason your logic is faulty is that you might be selling a ton of flour but only a bit of baking powder. Using your logic dump the baking powder. However if the cook needs 200 lbs of flour for every 8 oz box of baking powder and he needs both, guess where he is not going to shop?
I could give you many more examples but I think you get the point.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
He was an American Airlines Mechanics supervisor in Kansas City. He says the company is almost dead, he had very high seniority.
:(
Wow – I just saw this Rip.
Our distinguished (not) mayor Kay Barnes rammed through a big tax initiative to give incentives for American to keep their maintenance facility here.
Did that go south or did American decide it wasn’t enough?
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Originally posted by Stringer
Every foot on a retail shelf has to generate so much revenue. If the product put there costs more and the consumer doesn't buy it, then that shelf space is now costing money, not generating it.
Client of mine is Penofin Performance Coatings. They lost their Home Depot shelf space (bout seven mil a year in business) because a competitor was able to sell a similar product cheaper... basically because the competitor doesn't have the EPA regs California does, or they were able to import a product from overseas, or whatever reason... bottom line is, Penofin laid off forty employees.
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That is how Walmart and Home Depot do business which is why I think companies will have to stop relying on them and start finding alternative ways to get their products to the market.
Direct selling, alternative stores that do value their supplier relationships, company owned stores etc.
Part of the reason for the state of affairs as it exists today is that many companys screwed over smaller accounts to get Home Depot business. Now they are seeing the error of their ways.
It is an evolution.
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Pavlov hits me with more bad news every time I answer the phone
so I play and I sing and I just let it ring,
all day when I'm at home
a defacto choice of
macro-microcosmic melancholy
but baby any way you slice it,
I'm thinkin I could just as soon use the time alone
yeah the goons have gone global
and the CEO's are shredding files
and the democrans and the republicrats
are flashing their toothy smiles
and Uncle Tom is posing for a photo-op with the oval office klan
and Uncle Sam is riggin' cockfights in the promised land
and that knife you stuck in my back is still there
it pinches a little when I sigh and moan
and these days I'm thinkin I could just as soon use the time alone
cause all the wrong people have the power of suggestion
and the freedom of the press is meaningless if nobody asks the question
I mean causation by definition is such a complex compilation of factors
that to even try to say why is to oversimplify
that's a far cry, isn't it dear, from acting like you're the only one there
unrepentantly self-centered and unfair
enter all suckers scrambling for the truth
exit mr. eye-contact who took his flirt and flew the coup
but whatever, no matter, no fishin trips, no fishin
cause momma's officially out of commission
and did I mention in there somewhere
did I mention somewhere in there
that I traded Babe Ruth,
yes I traded the only player
that was bigger than the game
and I can't even tell you why,
cause you'd think I'm insane.
and that's the truth
and the music industry mafia is pimping girl power
sniping off sharp-shooter singles from their styrofoam towers,
and hip-hop is tied up in the back room with a logo stuffed in its mouth
cause the master's tools will never dismantle the master's house
but then, I'm getting away from myself
as I get closer and closer home
and the difference between you and me baby
is I get ****ed up when I'm alone
and I must admit today
that my inner pessimist seems to have gotten the best of me
we start out sugared up on kool aid and manifest destiny
and then we memorize all the presidents names like little trained monkeys
and we spit into the world so many spinny-eyed TV junkies
incapable of unraveling the military-industrial mystery
pre-emptively passified with history book history
and I've been around the world now and I can see this about America
the mind control is deep here, man
the myopia is steep here, man
and behold those who try to expose the reality
really try to realize democracy
are shot with rubber bullets and gassed off the streets
while the global power brokers are kept clean and discreet
behind a wall
behind a moat
and that is all
that's all
that's all she wrote
and my heart beats an s-s-s o-o-o s-s-s
cause folks just really couldn't care-care-care less-less-less
as long as every day is superbowl sunday
and larger than life women in lingerie are pouting at us from every bus stop
she loves me, she loves me not
she loves me, she loves me not
she loves me, she loves me not
and "big government should not stand between a man and his money"
i mean, "what's good for business is good for the country"
our children still take that lie like communion,
the same old line the Confederacy used on the Union
conjugate liberty into libertarian
and medicated associated with deregulation privitization
we won't even know we're slaves on a corporate plantation
somebody say hallelujah,
somebody say damnation,
cause the profit system follows the path of least resistance
and the path of least resistance is what makes the river crooked
makes it serpentine
capitalism is the devil's wet dream
so just give me my Judy garland drugs and let me get back to work
cause the empire state building is the tallest building in New York
and I have always got the feeling
you just like to hear it fall off your tongue
but I remember my name in your mouth
and I don't think I was done hearing it close to my ear
on a whisper's way to a moan
Pavlov hits me with more bad news every time I answer the phone
so I play and I sing and just let it ring,
all day when I'm at home
a defacto choice of
macro-microcosmic melancholy
but baby any way you slice it,
I'm thinkin I could just as soon use the time alone
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Habu,
Just to set you straight on what you think my thinking is...I'm on the supply side in my company, which means I don't believe in the whole "make it up in volume" theory that most sales people use to justify selling at low margins and big discounts.
Please don't attribute that to me. My statement regarding shelf space is accurate. It doesn't mean I subscribe to it, it just means that's the reality of the situation as illustrated by Airhead's post regarding Home Depot. It's not my logic, but the reality of how the big boxes do business.
In the Consumer Products company I was in, we eventually stopped offering WalMart the first crack at a new product because we wanted to get the margins higher on a new entry and we wanted WalMart to come to us asking for it, instead of us begging them to take it. We always made more margins on the same products with Target then we did with WalMart, and better margins with Lowe's than we did with Home Depot.
And Target paid their bills much better as well. Our biggest customer was Sears...we private labeled the Kenmore Product for them. We made our margin points and so did they.
You mentioned people like to shop in a nice environment. No question about it. But how many people, at what ratio, at what price point does that over-ride picking up something for less? You just can generalize like that (as you are accusing me of doing) without quantifying those type of questions.
For me, I agree..I will shop Target over WalMart anyday when it comes to big box comparisons...the same with Lowes over Home Depot. Will I go to a more locally focused store, it depends on what I'm looking for and what my price point is. I'll go to a Nebraska Furniture Mart over a Benchmark, for example because of price.
**Edit..I've given you a brief glimpse into my experience in this, what is you do for a living, if I may ask?
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I own a couple of companys, mostly in the furnature business.
I opened a retail garden products store a few years back that I recently sold. We used to kill our competition by having a diverse selection of products in an appealing setting. We avoided selling the items that any of the big box stores sold. In fact once a supplier sold to a big box store we would drop them. Not out of spite, just because we did not want them to be perceived as being as hip as our store.
Buyers from Costco and Loblaws and other big stores used to come and shop us regularly.
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Habu,
Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.
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dude... you actually listen to that crap? with a straight face?
lazs
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Crap?
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Originally posted by lazs2
dude... you actually listen to that crap? with a straight face?
lazs
lol lazs.. you know who that is?
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Stringer.
My brother in law owns a company that sells to Target and Wal Mart and Costco. He also told me Target is the best payer and nicest to deal with. In Canada big supermarkets charge "listing fees" of tens of thousands of dollars just to put the product on the shelf. There is no loyality there as well. So how do you succeed?
He does by making a good product and constantly innovating and bringing new ideas out. He is in the food business. One of his latest products are those coloured rimmers for margaritas and other drinks. He makes them under license now for the liquor companies. They get them into the stores. It is a lifestyle type product. It did not even exist a few years back.
All I can say is that there is money to be made if you focus on markets that these guys do not serve.
My garden furniture is probably some of the most expensive around and would never sell in those stores. Look at what they are looking for in those stores and make a better and more expensive version and you would be suprised to see how well it will sell.
Retail shops need to focus on bringing better quality and better designed products in to sell instead of cheaper ones. Quality does sell and branding is important as well. Wal Mart will never sell high end stereos because people who appreciate them and are passonate about their music will not shop there. So if you are in the stereo business why not make a higher end product?
I make office chairs and started selling them direct to the public a number of years ago because I was pissed off at dealers who did not pay their bills and went bankrupt on me. Today I have a number of major accouts these dealers would kill for. Identify what your big goal is and then identify what steps you need to get there. In the case of the office chairs I wanted the dealers to get me into certain markets they were not doing.
When you rely on the Home Depots and Wal Marts of the world to do your selling you are putting your faith and future in a heartless and souless organisation. I would hedge my bets.
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Lazs is familiar with all types of dyke music. He can talk your ear off explaining all the sub-genres and everything.
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Originally posted by Nash
Lazs is familiar with all types of dyke music. He can talk your ear off explaining all the sub-genres and everything.
lol Some definative truths in her little tune there..
With the originality of her guitar play, imo I see her as probably one of the top 5 guitarist I have ever heard. She, to me, is simply amazing with most of her work. 'Living in Clip' disk 1-2 is probably the best 3 piece band I have ever heard in concert.
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Habu,
I'm looking into a manufacturing acquisition for myself right now. We're just getting into the due diligence stage.
I wouldn't mind conitnuing the discussion off the board.
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artgarden@on.aibn.com
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Originally posted by ROCrats
Interesting few comments in here.
First off, sorry to hear about the layoff, it's gotta suck.
with no disrespect to the loss, ya and then?.....
[edited because I spelled "idiots" wrong, ain't that just a kicker?]
You've got it all wrong ROC. The Administration is supposed to make sure we all live in a Utopian society in which everyone is happy and gets everything they want with as little work possible.
....Now where's my freekin Mansion. I'M CALLIN THE BUSH OUT ON THIS ONE DAMMIT!
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Don't blame the players, blame the game.
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Originally posted by Zippatuh
Wow – I just saw this Rip.
Our distinguished (not) mayor Kay Barnes rammed through a big tax initiative to give incentives for American to keep their maintenance facility here.
Did that go south or did American decide it wasn’t enough?
I'm not sure, Zip.
You met Chuck when we hooked up with you all for beers in a couple of years ago.
He'll get by. He's a good guy with an excellent background, and he's FAA certified to do engine inspections. He will most likely be returning to aircraft maintenance if he can find a job.
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Originally posted by Staga
btw I hope he's having somekind of insurance for the case of unemployment? Kinda like medical insurance you buy or the company you work for offers to you?
The government provides unemployment insurance in the USA, Staga. It is usually a much lesser amount than you make while working, but it keeps food on the table for six months while you look for a new position. There are other options, such as mortgage insurance, but they are privately funded and not commonly used.
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
I'm not sure, Zip.
You met Chuck when we hooked up with you all for beers in a couple of years ago.
He'll get by. He's a good guy with an excellent background, and he's FAA certified to do engine inspections. He will most likely be returning to aircraft maintenance if he can find a job.
Ripsnort, Wouldn't that be freaky if it turned out Chuck was really Creamo, and all these years you guys were throwing rocks at each other here while unaware of each others' true identities?
That would be really trippy.
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>>He's a liberal who has no concept of self reliance. To him, Govt handouts are an entitlement.<<
Wonder where I got that idea? Hmm maybe from the S&L bailout.
Dang S&L's - always have their hand out...