Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Tinpot on December 06, 2004, 06:08:29 PM
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This is a requests section which would indicate that Hitech listen read and act. However I've seen loads of requests for realy good ideas that might realy evolve and shake up this game a bit. Inever seem to see any of them acted upon! Pity realy. Seems people are not listening to us after all.
Please feel free to change my mind. ( politely!)
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I made that observation a week or so ago and HT did respond. He told me that he only responds to things he thinks are worthy of his time. So now I don't bother much with participating in threads on how the game can be improved since if its not worth his time to respond its not worth my time for the feedback. Strangely, he never responded to my ack perk bug thread but fixed the problem in the last patch. I remain confused.:rolleyes:
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tinpot, much of what is posted is seen and read. Like redrabbit I have also have posted a suggestion or concern, and later seen the issue addressed in game. Ive also seen debates happen over game play issues, sometimes the issues being addressed in subsequent patches involve approaches under discussion, sometimes not. That is enough feedback for me.
I have often found that even if HT doesnt respond directly to a thread, he is usually aware of the discussion if it involves game issues. Considering the traffic here he cant be expected to constantly pit himself aginst players telling them why thier ideas are bad, or not pratical.
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"Please feel free to change my mind. ( politely!)"
Why bother. probably 80% of the game as it stands now had player imput in the implementation. If you want to impact this game you have to trust the developers to implement what is feasable from a ballance stand point(many many many sugestions on this board dont consider that) and you have to understand the delivery schedule that such a small team on a big program have to work with.
HT is still dilligently trying to include things that occured to him 3 years ago.
Doenst sound like your patient enough to enjoy the evolution of the game.
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Here are some requests that I have seen implemented.
change in buff bomb sight
skins
maps
buff formations
addition of the ki-84
side balancing
removal of night
shortening of the fps information when cntrl I
adjustments to various plane FM
any of the bug notices
ability to destroy ack on ships
Not all of the above are universally considered good things but I believe that they were requests from the players.
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Originally posted by Tinpot
If you land within the airfield perimeter you should be considered to have landed successfully. If you put it down on water you have ditched. If you land on dry land but outside base you have made a forced landing and if you land wheels up outside the base and crack up your plane you have crash landed.
The current system is a load of rubbish. Its a nonsense.
Please listen HTC
Ok ill respond politly even thow you don't seem to know what the word meens.
Here is an idea I totaly disagree with. Landing an airplane for a new user on a runway is a challenge. This creates a feeling of accomplishment when it is completed successfuly. If you lower the landing standards ( and thats all you are realy asking for) it lessons the great feeling that can be had. When you are comming in on a totaly beet up airplane and acctualy do put it on the marks it is a great feeling. I rember 1 b17 mission I had, no elev, no ailarons 2 engs left, And I mangaged to successifuly land that bird on the runnway. I rember that landing today because it was hard to accomplish, if I could have put it anywhere on the field, it would have been no big deal.
As to any realisim argument, I don't seem to rember any tracking by the military of each pilots # of deaths, VS number of kills, ditches captures and such. There are aspects of AH wich realy can not be compared to real life, scoreing is one of them. And that is realy all you are asking to change.
Finaly as to not responding.
Im not sure how long you have been playing, but this topic has been disscussed many times, in AH and in my previous game. Ive been creating online sims for over 10 years,been playing them for 15, and lots of request made I have seen before. So am I suppose to rehash the same topics over and over each time they come up?
Most player request are made from a very microscopic view point of a player. They wish to have somthing changed to meet there specific needs. This isn't a bad thing, because it lets me see the game threw many different eyes. But small changes can have lots of consiquences the requester never considered. That consideration is what I do. Look at AH from an over all game impact point, and not just from a small view point.
HiTech
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I have seen a lot of requests that made it to the game in one way or another, most stuff has its reason. Big and deep changes to the gameplay demand a lot of work and wont come in a month or two but rather in version 3.0 or 4.0 of ah, maybe never.
As much as i want to see a change in strat gameplay i see that it is verry much work and will need new maps as well as a changed editor, stuff that causes eaven more work.
But, since for TOD a diffrent kind of editor is necessary anyway and changes in the whole server code it would be easier to work in other ideas there too and i am sure HiTech has ideas there and takes the stuff written here into account.
Eny limiter, no night, bomber formations, bomb sight, bigger towns, min fuel 75% and tons of other stuff were made because players complained about a problem.
ciao schutt
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"Ok ill respond politly even thow you don't seem to know what the word meens. "
Ya, trash talk people for trying to help out... that will encourage them to stay with the game and help you improve it.
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Rabbidrabbit: When people call parts of AH nonsense and rubbish, would you call that being polite?
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Originally posted by hitech
Rabbidrabbit: When people call parts of AH nonsense and rubbish, would you call that being polite?
This is what I see for his post:
An observation.
This is a requests section which would indicate that Hitech listen read and act. However I've seen loads of requests for realy good ideas that might realy evolve and shake up this game a bit. Inever seem to see any of them acted upon! Pity realy. Seems people are not listening to us after all.
Please feel free to change my mind. ( politely!)
Where is the part you are talking about? Has it been edited?
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Rabbidrabit: The quote I put in from the airfields landing thread.
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Originally posted by hitech
Finaly as to not responding.
Im not sure how long you have been playing, but this topic has been disscussed many times, in AH and in my previous game. Ive been creating online sims for over 10 years,been playing them for 15, and lots of request made I have seen before. So am I suppose to rehash the same topics over and over each time they come up?
Most player request are made from a very microscopic view point of a player. They wish to have somthing changed to meet there specific needs. This isn't a bad thing, because it lets me see the game threw many different eyes. But small changes can have lots of consiquences the requester never considered. That consideration is what I do. Look at AH from an over all game impact point, and not just from a small view point.
HiTech
That is actually a damn good post. You should probably make it a sticky or something.
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Let me turn this around RR.
Would you let me make suggestions to something you controled if those suggestions could possible cut your montly income in half?
Every change made in Aces High directly effects how HT & AH survives financially.
As a result he HAS to be a bit conservative about implementing most suggestions.
If he wasn't we wouldn't be here now.
Last, HT since I know your reading this thread. I wanted to take this chance to admit "I was wrong".
When I first started AH I was convinced that going to larger maps would solve many of the problems we were experienceing.
Well now we have the player base, & the larger maps & I'm wishing we were back on the small ones.
You were right, I was wrong.
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Originally posted by Tinpot
This is a requests section which would indicate that Hitech listen read and act. However I've seen loads of requests for realy good ideas that might realy evolve and shake up this game a bit. Inever seem to see any of them acted upon! Pity realy. Seems people are not listening to us after all.
Please feel free to change my mind. ( politely!)
Convinced he listens now?
And ahhh.....RR........he wasna talkin to you man. And while your first post wasnt really aggressive,
I made that observation a week or so ago and HT did respond. He told me that he only responds to things he thinks are worthy of his time. So now I don't bother much with participating in threads on how the game can be improved since if its not worth his time to respond its not worth my time for the feedback. Strangely, he never responded to my ack perk bug thread but fixed the problem in the last patch. I remain confused.
it seems you were just waiting for something to put you into that mode, as your next post got a little bit of a nasty note.
Ya, trash talk people for trying to help out... that will encourage them to stay with the game and help you improve it.
Again, just to make sure you got it, he wasnt talking to you. He was talking to a poster who WAS rude and "trash talking". If nothing else, I'd call your tone "confrontational" throughout. Looks to me like you were just trying to goad HT into a response on this so you could openly attack him and make you feel better about yourself. Either that or you take things WAY too personally. Just because they dont respond to every request in every thread doesnt mean no one listens. And just because you or a handful of others thought something was a good idea, doesnt mean HT thought it was. Start your own game company, and guess what? You get to make your own decisions.
Heck, Pyro's recent "news" post talking about what will be in the next version is a nice gesture on their part, and a clear indicator that they are working on things people have requested. I dont know where you picked up the burr in your tail, but blaming HT for it wont make it go away.
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well, its good to know about the airfield landing thing, now ill just ditch in the water and get a ditch rather than fly for that extra 10 minutes to hit the runway and spin off. it all counts the same. thanks for the reply.
~S~
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It's threads like this that makes me beleive there is a God and he likes us. Other wise Hitech would never be able to put up with our crap, and he would take away the best regualre quality entertainment most of get on a consitant basis.:aok
Age gives me one great perspective: Tinpot you dont KNOW how good you really GOT it with this game...................:lol
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Personaly I didn't think I was being rude. Forthright maybe. Frank maybe in my opinions. But not rude. I apologise if you thought me so.Maybe we just have different definitions of the term.
I accept the response. I'm not a programmer so do not have tech knowledge. However I do think that the game seems to be less about realistic WW2 combat and is more of an arcade game with WW2 aircraft.
On the plus side it is the most accessible WW2 flight game I've tried so I'll stay.
To be honest though , and maybe this is a request for those players that have the time knowledge etc. I don't see how giving us a winter map would hurt the game. Nor do I see that bringing night back ( that's why lancs have black underside paint !) or putting the weather back in would hurt the gameplay. It must be do able as it was there before.
Oh and I now accept that Hitech do respond. so I guess I've been corrected. fair enough. How about that night clouds winter thing?
:) :)
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"How about that night clouds winter thing? "
As you said, it was there before. The reason its not here now is because of player request. I guess the real question would be is "why is your/my request more valid than the other guys?" The other point(s) of view can be found in the many other threads regarding the subject. Personally I would like the weather back but don't care about the night because of the ability to change gamma. But then my request is not more valid than the other pilots.
The winter map? Player designed maps have been included in the rotation. Not sure if anyone has submitted a winter map for the MA. I seem to remember a winter map in the CT but that was a two country design and I think made to AH1 standards (if that makes a difference). It was interesting for the CT and fit the parameters of the set up. The question to ask for a winter map is "what would the benefit to the MA be?" The only thing I could come up with is it is just different terrain to look at. Planes would still be green, brown, silver, yellow, or blue. The ground war and the air war would still be the same. The CT map only provided me just that, something to look at while traveling to the fight. After the fight started, everything was still the same including me dieing.
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seabat.
Never did I suggest my ideas were in any way superior to anyone elses. I do think I have a right to voice them though! Ok so a winter map would only give us something new to look at, but hey with weather added we could dive out of the clouds, and it would spice up bombing runs. Maybe we'd have to resort to area bombing through the overcast? And anyway variety is the spice of life whats long with something different to look at? I liked the desert canyon arena we used to have that was pretty cool.
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Originally posted by Tinpot
Personaly I didn't think I was being rude. Forthright maybe. Frank maybe in my opinions. But not rude. I apologise if you thought me so.Maybe we just have different definitions of the term.
I accept the response. I'm not a programmer so do not have tech knowledge. However I do think that the game seems to be less about realistic WW2 combat and is more of an arcade game with WW2 aircraft.
On the plus side it is the most accessible WW2 flight game I've tried so I'll stay.
To be honest though , and maybe this is a request for those players that have the time knowledge etc. I don't see how giving us a winter map would hurt the game. Nor do I see that bringing night back ( that's why lancs have black underside paint !) or putting the weather back in would hurt the gameplay. It must be do able as it was there before.
Oh and I now accept that Hitech do respond. so I guess I've been corrected. fair enough. How about that night clouds winter thing?
:) :)
Somehow the statement ...
The current system is a load of rubbish. Its a nonsense.
... comes across a being very rude in my interpretation of that post.
There were a million more tactful ways of ending that post, rather than telling someone what they have created is "a load of rubbish." I too would summarily dismiss anybody that carries that tone when posting ... it simply doesn't deserve a response or recognition.
Next time you think along those lines, think about going to the next con and when HT sits and listen with full intent to whatever it is that you wish to discuss with him and at the end tell him its "a load of rubbish." Don't think or expect that you will get his attention again at anytime during the remainder of the con. Somehow I don't think that most would have the sack to say those types of things it HT in person, so why say it here.
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It wasn't even from this thread. HT dug it up from somewhere else and used it to attack him here which just went to make his point but anyway....
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Tinpot,
My apologies if the statement indicated an arrogance on your part. That was not intended.
What was intended is that an idea that I or you have which we think is good, would add to gameplay, or be really cool can (and will be) viewed as bad, a hindernace to gameplay, or just dumb by another player. How would you chose which viewpoint to implement? Both sides could present great reasons but one will be unhappy with the final choice. No change to the overall gameplay, just some happy and some not. If that is the result, why bother with the change?
I agree that you or anyone else has a right to voice their opinion in a reasonable manner about the game. What I dont believe is that we have a right to an answer from the designer. That HTC takes the time to answer is a bonus.
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I've seen a lot worse in here and it slightly bugs me that certain posters get to flame and belittle everything people say without so much as a comment from Hitech. There is some bias in here whether you aghree or not.
Oh and by the way read properly!
I ended by saying
"Oh and I now accept that Hitech do respond. So I guess I've been corrected. fair enough."
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That last post was aimed at Slapshot.
Sorry if you thought it was you seabat
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Originally posted by Tinpot
I've seen a lot worse in here and it slightly bugs me that certain posters get to flame and belittle everything people say without so much as a comment from Hitech. There is some bias in here whether you aghree or not.
Oh and by the way read properly!
I ended by saying
"Oh and I now accept that Hitech do respond. So I guess I've been corrected. fair enough."
It one thing when you flame me or other posters on this BBS, but it's a whole different ballgame when you tell the creator of the game that his work is "a load of rubbish. Its a nonsense".
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Tinpot, I would sugest you throw away that shovel and stop digging.
In the past 3 days you have.
1. Called my work rubbish.
2. Accused me of not listening to players.
3. Now accuse me of being biased
Tinpot: You are in my house. How would you handle some one who came over to your house and said those things to you.
HiTech
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Originally posted by Tinpot
This is a requests section which would indicate that Hitech listen read and act. However I've seen loads of requests for realy good ideas that might realy evolve and shake up this game a bit. Inever seem to see any of them acted upon! Pity realy. Seems people are not listening to us after all.
Please feel free to change my mind. ( politely!)
i must say i am actually impressed that HiTech and his fellow HTC staff get to read all of the things posted.
give you an example this "Gameplay and Feedback" forum alone in the last 7 day has had 589 replies to 33 topics. some people typing out 1/2 a page of text or more.
this is for the last 7 days mind you, and there was a weekend in there, so in theory Hitech had to read all of them in 5 working days, and Coad a game, run a business, have a personal life, oh yeah, and moniter 24 other forums on this board some MUCH more heavily used.
alot of people come along and post alot of the same ideas, maybe with a slightly different twist, but in general the same idea that has been brought up for the past 5 years this BBS has been here.
alot of these people also dont know or dont care to properly use the search button, and look for related items to see what was discussed there.
there are many of us who are regular readers of many of the forums here in our leisure time, and notice these "repeats". generally someone will pop in and mention that idea had been brought up before, only to me mocked and told "you dont work for HTC i demand an answer from them"
i only ask you this: should the HTC staff dedicate their time to re-hash ideas over and over again, or should they work on the game?
simply put if you dont get a direct answer right away, spend some of your own personal time looking for an answer that is almost definatly there instead of jumping up and down crying.
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i must say i am actually impressed that HiTech and his fellow HTC staff get to read all of the things posted.
Exactly 73.
Tin,
Sooner or later you will realise these guys are on top of things. You may not agree with everything, but then you didn't write the thing and shell out the cash to make it available to the world and spend most of your time trying to make it better. Crap at most you spend 180 bucks a year to get as close as you can to knowing the feeling of what it was like blowing people out of the sky in a WWII airplane. It's this or Fantasy Isle. Good luck.:aok
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Deleted for flame
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On this BBS
I have read thinly veiled racism
Biggoted remarks about other players, nations etc
I have seen people trolling for arguments
and myself have been on the recieving end of some pretty sharp criticsm, nay insulting remarks.
None and I repeat none of which has ever been commented upon by the moderators.
If I caused Hitech offense I apologise. I do not think the current system regarding landing is very good and I believe I'm entitled to say so. ( or maybe I would be if i was another player! )
I did say that this is the most accessible sim i've found and that I will continue to play.
I would appreciate it if some of the same indignation shown to my remarks was shown to the many others (whose names I will refrain from mentioning less I get accused of flaming)
I'm sorry but I think it a poor show that some people get away with writing almost anything whilst you see fit to attack me
Big bow, thankyou and goodnight.
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Tinpot,
Would it not be easier on your sensabilities to take this BBS with a grain of salt? All of almost always open ourselves to what seems to be annoying you in most of our own POSTS. A thick skin helps most of the time. :)
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Tinpot: You called me out, And are still doing it implying some how you are still singled out. And It is starting to be an issue because you refuse to drop it. First in this very thread I modirated a flame of you personaly, of course you have no way of know that since it was deleted. So once again you make false accusations. with this line
and myself have been on the recieving end of some pretty sharp criticsm, nay insulting remarks. None and I repeat none of which has ever been commented upon by the moderators.
And we realy are talking about somthing 1 line away from your current post.
If I caused Hitech offense I apologise. I do not think the current system regarding landing is very good and I believe I'm entitled to say so. ( or maybe I would be if i was another player! )
The first part of that quote is fine. The 2nd part once again goes over the top, and is starting to get you in big trouble.
Finaly the item I qoted on your ogrinal thoughts were not moderated either, I only brought it up in this thread, when you went totaly over the top with the false hoods of me not taking player ideas into considerating. And then wanted people to reply politly, well if you would start to do the same, and not persist with these "flame baits" then people might start responding politly in kind. But if you continue to post with a chip on your shoulder , things will not go well for your conversations on this bbs.
HiTech
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killnu
well, its good to know about the airfield landing thing, now ill just ditch in the water and get a ditch rather than fly for that extra 10 minutes to hit the runway and spin off. it all counts the same. thanks for the reply.
Yeah, that or you could just learn to land. It's not that difficult.
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Yeah, that or you could just learn to land. It's not that difficult
since you must not of read the other thread i started, you obviously dont know the point of my reply. and it shows in your post. next time before you hit that "submit reply" button, have a clue...
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:cool: I SURRENDER :cool:
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:D
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Good ... bye.
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since you must not of read the other thread i started, you obviously dont know the point of my reply. and it shows in your post. next time before you hit that "submit reply" button, have a clue...
What's the point of having different threads for different subjects if you're going to expect everyone to read every thread you've ever posted it to know what the h*** you're talking about.
I think you're the one without a clue.
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umm yea
have you read this thread? there are several mentions of the other thread in this one, some by important type people, but i suppose they are clueless?!:confused:
you may move along...;)
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1) HT reads pretty much everything on the BBS.
2) Paying your monthly AH bill gives you no more right of ownership on the game than paying your cable bill gives you for HBO.
3) As with every game, the designer(s) have their vision. You may not agree with HT/Pyro's vision for AH (I don't half the time), but it's that vision which propels development. State your case, don't take a "no" or non-reply personal, and move on. If you turn out to have been right all along and your suggestion is adopted, a subtle "I told you so" is acceptable (or if replying to HT: "I toled you soo." :D )
4) HT has been involved in flight sims for 15 years, I think Pyro started a year later. I'm working on my 18th year involved in the genre. That means some of us have been playing/developing these games since before some of the current players were even born. So a lot has already been discussed at least once in 15 years, and a lot gets dismissed because it's been tried before and failed. If this was the first game of it's kind in it's 4th year, it'd be a completely different situation. But this is a 3rd generation (or 4th if you count AW III) game with close to two decades of development and community history.
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Originally posted by Tinpot
However I do think that the game seems to be less about realistic WW2 combat and is more of an arcade game with WW2 aircraft.
Absolutely correct, some have a mistaken impression regarding what AH is. This is not Microsoft Flight Simulator, never in a million years will be. AH is indeed a game, a game based on WWII aircraft. The operative word being "game", not "simulator".
This game does have different arenas an events that cater to different types of game (damn theres that word again) play including realistic WW2 combat but its largely empty. Main Arena will never in a million years be about realistic WW2 combat, but then it isn't supposed to be either.
PS (that other arena is CT, it has winter maps night and all that stuff - and has for years)
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Originally posted by Tinpot
and myself have been on the recieving end of some pretty sharp criticsm, nay insulting remarks.
None and I repeat none of which has ever been commented upon by the moderators.
Actually HT deleted my post, as it should have been. So I'm calling BS on that.
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Sounds like a bunch of tetchy people having a go at one poster to me! I've read these threads and for what its worth I think he called the landing system rubbish, not the whole game! Ok so maybe a bit strong but whatever happened to freedom of speech huh? We may not like it but hey it is only a virtual world there a much bigger badder real world out there. No need to get quite so upset!
Have fun people! that is what this is about isn't it?:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Sounds like a bunch of tetchy people having a go at one poster to me! I've read these threads and for what its worth I think he called the landing system rubbish, not the whole game! Ok so maybe a bit strong but whatever happened to freedom of speech huh? We may not like it but hey it is only a virtual world there a much bigger badder real world out there. No need to get quite so upset!
Have fun people! that is what this is about isn't it?:rolleyes:
Yep, new BBBS member :D
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Eh?
So?
Does that mean only your opinion is valid?
Enlighten me!
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Dammmmm....
I was hoping HT was gonna "Release the Hounds of Hell" upon tinpot.
:D
WTG HT :aok
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Originally posted by Skydancer
Eh?
So?
Does that mean only your opinion is valid?
Enlighten me!
No ...but the thread had died a peacefull death 4 days ago and you come along and pick at the scab.
This board is owned by HTC so your freedom of speech rights are null and void.
Come to my house and insult me ... see how fast your *** gets booted out the door ... my house ... my rules ... take your freedom of speech and stick it. Same applies here.
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A thought, we may be dealing more with how american and european culture views communication in this venue. Hitech owns this BBS and we must play by his rules. On this BBS we are Hitech's "guests". Still again how we perceive the invitation to respond in this Forum may be different than how Tinpot's culture expects to be able to respond.
In the end Hitech has the final word and he has been a long suffering and excellent Host.:)
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tinpot
my apologies to yourself if I have made a miscalculation of what country you are located.