Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: herryson on July 12, 2001, 09:18:00 AM
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I love 109, it's my favor.
specially best climb rate.
But I don't know how to use this bird.
It climbs very well, and fast,
but have bad turnig capability,
terrible manuever at high speed,
bad manuever at low altitude.
With more guns...it;s bad more.
How i can fly this bird well?
i'm learning this game now....
plz answer to me.
¾È³Ä¼¼¿©
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Well, your best bet is to choose your battles carefully, and always engage with an energy advantage. The G-10 is also one of the fastest planes in the game, and is one of the best accelerators as well, so you can escape from almost anything if you need to. Generally, a high-speed climb at a shallow angle will get you out of most situations as long as your enemy does not have more E.
The bottom line is, you always need to be higher in the G-10. If you are not, use your speed and climbing ability to extend and climb over the enemy. The tricky part is that you do not want to be too much higher or faster than the other fellow, so when you attack him you won't go too fast. It takes practice to get that energy advantage just right.
Take the lighter gun set, use a convergence of about 250 or maybe less, and don't fire until you are under 300 in range. Don't fire in high-G turns unless you are under 100 yards or you will miss. Only fire cannon, do not fire MG and cannon together or you will only hit with MG rounds and the enemy will not be damaged (much).
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then, if i fire gun and cannon toghether,
why cannon hit alone?
I think fire toghether is more powerful....i think.
plz teach me. :confused:
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The trajectory of cannon shell and MG is completly different.
So when you see hit sprite you are not sure of which is currently hitting and can waste either MG bullet of shell.
Except if you are a point blank range ...
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k, i understand now.
thank you~ :)
bit my bullets hate me :( in combats.
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I actually fire off all my MG when I'm taking off, giving me a slight lightness advantage, and it stops me from fuggin up my aim with the cannons later on.
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MG's are pretty useless on the 109 or 190's. I always teach that shooting the mg's and cannons is a useless thing to do because the MG's are really useless weapons and do little damage. The cannons however :) They make a few big holes.
Although i am sure there is a bug... Infact I am positive there is a bug somewhere. Because on a number of occasions I have put 12-13 30mm rounds into a Yak 9T and the darn think still kept flying... I was seriously cheesed off :D
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eveyoine pretty much covered everything......i reckon 3 connons on the g-10 is more than enough for anything.
i use the machine guns when im turning with the guy, i usually score a few hits, it doesn absolutely nothong, but the pions scares the toejam out of the guy:-)
the only place u can use ur cannonm is in a HO or if ur right behind the fella, otherwise its a waste of time..........unless ur really good and get ur lead just right.........i cant do that so i save the big guns for when im behind the guy:-)
rav(messiah1 in h2h)
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Hi everyone
i have been flying a little bit in the 109 too and was wondering if anyone could tell me what alt the 109 is fasted at against other planes?
tring to fly it reasently
and not look like a compleate newbie
Trell
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Originally posted by Trell:
Hi everyone
i have been flying a little bit in the 109 too and was wondering if anyone could tell me what alt the 109 is fasted at against other planes?
tring to fly it reasently
and not look like a compleate newbie
Trell
check the charts for comparison of planes here in AH.
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I prefer the cannon gondolas though.
Reason for this is quite simple, the 109 is not good in turning fight, so why not add them.
The gondolas make it turn worse, but it is terrible anyway.
I always try to have an energy advantage. There is no use in climbing towards an enemy while you know he has all the cards.
Instead i take off (situation when your field is being attacked), level immediately after take-off, pick up speed until the range indicators are out of sight, then climb. Always keeping an eye on the nme, in case they bounce you.
The key thing here is that you need speed, because speed is life. So when you do get bounced, you can manouvre and at least try to survive.
A 109 in a pair is good, you can try to lure the nme into a sandwich :)
When i fly alone (most of the times) i just want to bounce a plane which is chasing someone. This means he probably won't see you coming. Then line up with the target, close to about 100 yards, then fire all guns for a second, not more!
You should see your target lose all kinds of things. If this is not the case, he will be at least damaged, which gives you the upper hand. There is not much fun in fighting when you just lost onle of ailerons or rudders.
In short, get E advantage, and bounce the nme when they least expect you. Make a gun pass and run, then go around again if necessary.
Hope this helps,
JG5FaBi.
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damn i hate it when people do that to me:-)
eveytime(almost) i succesfully lure a guy into turning with me in my spit or zeke, and just when i have them with in 100 feet, gun poised to fire......some bellybutton in a 109 bounces on me:-)
damn i swear that is so annoying.......and sometimes i have to decide to either barrel roll and avoid been hit or get the kill and die myself after wards........i usually barrel roll now.
oh yeah........remember that thread a few weeks back about the revers roll or something.
it really works, especially in a zeke. wait until the guy is 1k away then do barrel rolls until he passes or decide to pull up. i already got 4 guys who overshot, its so cool.
its really hard to boom and zoomn someone if u dont have the element of surprice
rav
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109 is a mixed bird. It shines in 1 on 1, but loses its own in many vs many. You can always disengage, but forget about many kills, you have to work hard for them.
Probably the most satisfying way to kill in 109 is to dive below the enemy, and attack going up.
If you want to BnZ, maybe you should take gondolas.
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Right on Hristo, you lose some E due to gondolas but they'll pay of if you use the plane correct.
Furthermore I would like to suggest to start flying the 109 in a earlier version like the G2 or G6 to get comfortable in it. Then switch to g10 and adapt to slightly more difficult plane to handle.
The G6 and especially g10 are nose heavy, which makes them a bit hard to flat turn at high speed, but they are very good for vertical stalls, you can hammerhead them very well.
In normal turns you have to get a good feel for the best turn speed and adapt your tactics to that (like for all planes).
Good luck.
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All I can add is this ... I ve flown 109 G 10 almost every minute in this Sim since 2000 when I left Fighter Ace to join AH ... two years there and three here ... :eek: :eek: :eek: u know what ...
I M STILL LEARNING TO FLY THE 109 !!!! but ..
Does not matter how good or bad we are .. Its a plane you fall in love with , grabs you and dont let you go ... At least thats how I feel .
Suggestions huummm lets see
... learn the trimming to perfection .. it may save u or give u a kill quite a few times...
... Avoid getting in compromising situations ... Its a beauty of a plane but does not do miracles ...
... Be delicate with it ... learn how to shoot with him at deflection and using rudders ...
... Use it in vertical maneuvers .. dont even try to dogfitght with ANY plane .
... get altitude quickly .. G 10 is a high bird ... the higher , the better ...
... Go fast ... all the time (slow down for landing lol )
... Be aware of the compression ...
... Be very aggressive ... Attack Attack Attack even if u have to defend still attack.
... Learn timing and ballistic for the cannons..
... Gondolas are a big punch but they will slow u down a bit ...be aware of that.
...Be very patient .. wait for your opportunity ... dont let them taunt u ...
... Be aware advantages and disadvantages are the same ...an advantage at one point can become a disadvantage and viceversa.
... Theres no shame to ask for HELP ... G10 in pairs are much better than alone.
... Shells are made of GOLD (Cannons) ... Dont waste em ....
... Dont assume you are going to outclimb everybody in every situation ... It doesnt happen that way...
... Learn the enemy's machines strenghts and weakness(eg. LaLa at 17K is not the same as LaLa at 3 K )....
... Dont let the enemy out of sight not even one milisecond ... Learn how to flight and maneuver looking back...
... Dont repeat tactics ... ever .. what gave u a kill yesterday may get you killed today.
... Confuse , lure , deceive the enemy ... when u are away and escaping he must think you are attacking ... when u r attacking he should think u r trying to escape...
.. Be aware of the environment ... MA is NOT a safe environment .. lots of people waiting around for YOU to engage another plane ... and trust me they HATE 109's
... Shoot at enemy at point blank range .. the closest the better ...
and the most important of all ... keep the sense of humor is very important especially when getiing shoot down 12 times in a row
:D :D :D :D
trust me with time , practice and patience you will get a bunch of enemy aircraft for each one you lose ...
Wishing you the best Wespe !!!
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My suggestion regarding the G-10 is simple...leave it in the hanger. It's easily the worst 109 in the game, yes it's faster and it climbs a bit better...but the airframe really doesn't allow you to utilize the extra speed to maximum advantage. The G-6 offers almost equal speed, climb & acceleration (slide rule guys will argue this) combined with better handling.
The current CT setup greatly favors the allies (IMO) since I alwaysfly the low # side I'm in the luftwabble junk a bit to much this week. I'm 2-3 in the 109 G10 and 10-6 in the 109 G-6. I only recall losing 1 " 1 vs 1" in 109...but easily have been hammered by the 2nd or 3rd spit XIV in the G10. In the G6 I've got much better survivability...I'm still getting waxed...but it's a tougher plane to kill. On the other hand I'm 8-2 in SpitXIV.
I'm a purely mediocre stick, obviously #'s and "luck of the draw" with regard to alt & E state when you meet a bogie come into play....but overall the G-6 is a much more versital ride....IMO.
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and remember the golden rule:
If you see a P-38, RUN. Land. Brag to the sheep that you survived an encounter with one.
:D
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One thing I've started doing in the G-10 (when I do not bring gondolas) is to use the MG's for long-range shots (d600 or more) or shots where the target is maneuvering quickly and I only have a fraction of a second to shoot (snapshots). I use only cannon for the close-in shots (less than d600 with a target I can keep steady in my front view). When I only have the nose cannon and 2 MGs, I do not fire both types at once.
If I bring the gondolas, then I fire all the guns at the same time, because with the extra 2 cannons there is a better chance of a cannon shot hitting a target that is maneuvering hard or I only have a snapshot.
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I find for me the 109G10 shines the best on pizza map. It excellent rate of climb make it good for climbing fast to go cherry pick some cons otw to their target. personally i will usually wont attack spit's and a6m's or any thing that turns well cause knowing me ill screw up and ill die, but i will attack p51's and anything i know i can turn better than which is not much and also look for afk targets :D . From what ive been told you could fly it like a spit14. Keep High SA. Dont bring 30mm unless your a tard like me who knows how to hit something with em.:eek: (i can hit something other than my self) dont pass 400 MPH in a dive and expect to live. all the time.
Now ive got a quest for you 109G10 experts. What is the secret in this plane to killing buffs?:confused: i Can do it with 190A8 and that is about all. (ok the only buffs i attack are tatertot and 999000 :p )
Also a good 109 pilot will know when it is time to put that nose down and run. maybe extend but if your flying against fester get out of there.
Also Be able to idenify a plane when you see it. The only plane i cant tell differences between are the yaks.
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the mgs dont suck.
max out the stall horn when u need that hard turn, it wont snap like others and needs to be flown at the edge.
when really slow.. be really gentle and use flaps.
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Wespe, can you please stop raising 2 year old threads?
I find myself using the 109's MGs only when I run out of cannon ammo in a fight.
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"My suggestion regarding the G-10 is simple...leave it in the hanger."
:confused: :confused: :confused:
You see here we have a different opinion .... its like having a ferrari in the garage and not using it saturday night !!! :p
"Also a good 109 pilot will know when it is time to put that nose down and run. maybe extend but if your flying against fester get out of there. "
lol Correction .. a good 109 pilot will know when is time to put that nose "UP" hahahahaha .... :lol :lol :lol
"If you see a P-38, RUN" ... I ve found those are very interesting dogfites ... they explode really nice after being hit by 30 mm
"What is the secret in this plane to killing buffs?"
Use climb rate go slightly ahead and above the bomber about 1.8- 2.2 and then dive ... that will give the gunner a very difficult shot ... other people use different tactics ... I like this one !!:aok :aok
HAPPY HUNTING EVERYONE !!! Wespe .
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Originally posted by Corsair
Wespe, can you please stop raising 2 year old threads?
I find myself using the 109's MGs only when I run out of cannon ammo in a fight.
No , I cant stop ...when it comes to this sim ... Im 2 years old :rofl
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Originally posted by Wespe
"My suggestion regarding the G-10 is simple...leave it in the hanger."
:confused: :confused: :confused:
You see here we have a different opinion .... its like having a ferrari in the garage and not using it saturday night !!! :p
Your a bit confused about whcih 109 is the "Ferrari"...the G-6 is a much more complete package...using your anology the G-6 is the Ferrari and the G10 is a dragster...it's faster in a straight line but has little other value. The primary value of the G10 is getting you out of trouble....not an overly valuable trait if your flying around looking to get into trouble:)
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Originally posted by humble
Your a bit confused about whcih 109 is the "Ferrari"...the G-6 is a much more complete package...using your anology the G-6 is the Ferrari and the G10 is a dragster...it's faster in a straight line but has little other value. The primary value of the G10 is getting you out of trouble....not an overly valuable trait if your flying around looking to get into trouble:)
Bf 109 G10 (http://www.telusplanet.net/~dsoder/Bf109G10.htm)
Bf 109 G6 (http://www.telusplanet.net/~dsoder/Bf109G6.htm)
now give me 2 days and i could easily have a write up on the comparsion of the 109G6 and 109G10 using various sources.
(http://www.flyaceshigh.com/ahhelp/models/charts/109g6climb.gif)
(http://www.flyaceshigh.com/ahhelp/models/charts/109g6speed.gif)
(http://www.flyaceshigh.com/ahhelp/models/charts/109g10climb.gif)
(http://www.flyaceshigh.com/ahhelp/models/charts/109g10speed.gif)
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Originally posted by humble
Your a bit confused about whcih 109 is the "Ferrari"...the G-6 is a much more complete package...using your anology the G-6 is the Ferrari and the G10 is a dragster...it's faster in a straight line but has little other value. The primary value of the G10 is getting you out of trouble....not an overly valuable trait if your flying around looking to get into trouble:)
Thanks for the reply HUMBLE .... !!
Nope .... from the whole package of 109's its my honest opinion the 109 G 6 is the less capable of the list being his 30 mm the only advantage from his predecesors . A lot of people choose the G 6 over a F 4 , Emil , G 2 or even G 10 and I really dont see the point ... I may be wrong but at least Im giving you an honest opinion ;)
Also I strongly believe lots of people will not let a 109 G10 in the garage :D :D :D as you suggest , myself among all of those ... G 10 is the only plane where I dont get shot down all the time :p :p :p
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Hmmm...
take all the time you need Skull...BTW the charts don't tell me anything I dont already know...now you show me where the charts tell me about overall handling. Speed isnt everything...unless your running.
Wespe...
I could care less about the potato gun...what the G-6 has is a couple of 12.7mm instead of the 7.7mm or whater the G-2 has. Actually I prefer the G-2 to the G-6 btw...however the G-6 has a bit more firepower and works well against the late war plane set that was in the CT last week. It doesnt handle as well as the G-2...but is way better than the G-10.
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speed and better engine make you able to make kenetic energy faster which can be a huge advantage in battle. correct? the speed will also give you more climb. correct? alt=potiential energy again another advantage in battle. they are both the same airframe with different engines. correcT?
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I tend to enjoy the G2 more than the G6 though I agree that the major advantage of the G6 is the better cowl guns, not the 30mm. The G2 performance and handling are just a little better. If you want pure power though then you can't go wrong with a G10. It also seems the later the 109 model the easier it is to get oneself into trouble with over-speed conditions. Lots of people lawn-dart the G10 when they get going too fast.
The G2 does perform better than the G6 also... not a huge amount but 5-10mph is enough difference to show.
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this is how i rank the 109s:
from the best to the worse (in the MA ofcourse, not vrs. an historical matchup)
109G10
109F4
109G2
109G6
109E4
my suggestion is that, when ever you think about flying a G6, just take the G2, its batter in every thing exept in fire power and maybe dive.
allso that is the order of which i will fly the 109s if i will need to duel another 109
anyone who disagree, i am open for duel invetations :)
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FLYBOY!!!! You're alive, and have an internet connection!
Get those diplomacy orders in, bud. :)
ed: and 109g2 or maybe f4, always with pods :)
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109 G-10 has to be the best of the 109's. It turns as well as the G-6, and the acceleration and climb performance make it turn better in the vertical. It is excellent at roping almost any other piston powered airplane at almost any altitude (watch out for the low La-7's and perked rides).
I tend to try to stay above my targets, but if I am attacked, it is not hard to equalize the energy states, then either escape, or kill whatever was attacking. My preferred tactic is to force the enemy to do some high speed turns and give him only high angle deflection shots. By the time he has sacrificed his E for angles, I start to extend in a shallow climb. When I notice him falling behind, I entice him to keep following by slowly turning to the left, and climbing a little more. Most enemies think they can pluck me out of the air at this point, and try to push their planes to the limit. By the time they are close enough to take a shot, I am almost vertical and turning hard to the left on the edge of a stall. When their nose drops, so do I and I swoop down and shoot. I usually miss though since I am a bad shot, but when I hit, it is awesome. Either way, at this point, I am totally in charge, and can dictate the terms of the engagement.
Have fun, and watch for the other guy. More times than not, it is the guy you didn't see that gets you.
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190 is a great plane for head-on's.... sucks for everything else. It can be out turned by just about every plane cept for C47... and it's climb rate is second rate to LA7 and a few other planes... I'll give it credit, it is one of the faster planes. Just don't come up against someone who is in a faster plane then you or else your good as dead.
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109G10 is great plane - it is suprior plane in the game (of non-perked) but.... you have to know how to fight.
Rule #1 - Never Never turnfight - use Boom and Zoom tactics only.
Rule #2 - Allways have enery - its speed and climb ratio gives you this
Rule #3 - Know your weeknes - never reach compression speed or you die - and this speed is very close to max speed. Don't try to make sissors - unless you in really bad situation and you have no other option - it rolls very slow. (However I did it once to Yak ;) )
Rule #4 - Know you enemy - don't try outdive pony - outclimb him. Don't try to run away from La7 at low alt but at high you are suprioir
Rule #5 - Learn deflection shooting
Good Luck and Good Hunting
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Originally posted by tracerx
It turns as well as the G-6
I'm not sure this is true - at least, it isn't in my limited experience.
- oldman
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It turns just about as well as a G-6 does. I've never been able to tell the difference between them in handling, personally. Of course, the G-10 accelerates and climbs much better, but as far as fighting goes they handle almost identically. You've got to go to the G-2/F-4 to get a different "feel", at least I do.
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stall is definitely softer in the G6. Less torque maybe?
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Originally posted by Urchin
It turns just about as well as a G-6 does. I've never been able to tell the difference between them in handling, personally. Of course, the G-10 accelerates and climbs much better, but as far as fighting goes they handle almost identically. You've got to go to the G-2/F-4 to get a different "feel", at least I do.
There is a slight difference but I tend to agree that you 'feel' it more when you move from G6 to G2. I think the G10 actually gains a bit from the extra power though, it can hold some turns longer, especially things like climbing spirals, which is a bit deceiving.
Originally posted by Moot
stall is definitely softer in the G6. Less torque maybe?
Likely correct.... I tend to feel the stall is a bit softer also in the G6 but then again the G10 has so much torque that on autopilot it doesn't even actually fly straight.
G2 vs La7 is a great turn-fight though, had a number of those in the MA and CT. Dead-Heat until someone screws up and stalls it. They both have a pretty nasty stall that usually causes someone to auger.
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Sorry I was a little general in what I said Oldman, the difference in my book is the sustained turning ability of the G-10 over the G-6. The G-6 may have a slight edge in instantaneous turn rate, but the G-10 quickly makes up for it by being able to hold a higher speed in the turns due to its acceleration (almost as good as the La-7), especially when climbing, that allows it to perform better, or at least as good as the G-6. Use the climbing spiral to catch some planes that think they have just enough E to hang with you, the G-10 can do a gentle climbing turn clear up to outer space. Everything else only wishes it could. :aok
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Originally posted by tracerx
the G-10 can do a gentle climbing turn clear up to outer space. Everything else only wishes it could. :aok
I agree with that.
- oldman
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Originally posted by humble
Hmmm...
I could care less about the potato gun...
Neither do I ...
FLYBOY:
Agree 100% with that list ....
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Well harryson~ Glad u r all set now ......i was like that to when i began:) But now i have been playing for 2 and a half years and get alot better than i did:aok
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Originally posted by Betown
MG's are pretty useless on the 109 or 190's. I always teach that shooting the mg's and cannons is a useless thing to do because the MG's are really useless weapons and do little damage.
The 13mm MG's in my 109 do a respectable job. I've scored some kills after my 30mm cannon run out. I never RTB till I'm completely out of ammo (or gas, which is usually the case :( )