Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Mitsu on December 10, 2004, 03:57:19 PM
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The Ki-84 got lower climb rate but it got WEP.
Hmmmm....
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How much of a hit did it take in the climb rate? It was over by a couple hundred fpm, but I wasnt sure that was enough to warrant them messing with it. Guess it was lol.
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Wow, I just tested it offline.
It has 400mmHg overboost setting now...
Well, it has no 4000fpm climb rate with military power.
But it still hold or got better climb rate with Emergency power.
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Whats the top speed now? Or did it change? Thanks Mitsu, you just gave me a reason to look forward to running home after work now lol. I guess darts and beer at the bar can wait till later this evening.
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the HA-45 Engine temp is going high quickly when using WEP... :D
so pyro, did we get HA-45-21 engine finally?
or it is still HA-45-11-SP engine?
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I hope the top speed is faster. :)
When are the skins coming? That's what I wanna know.
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Currently I'm testing top speed at 19000ft.
It got 392mph (630km/h) at this alt with WEP (+350mmHg).
BTW It seems the overboost setting (WEP) of the Ki-84 has no effect above 20000ft.
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And we still have poor dive performance in Ki-84.
Got lost V stab in 550mph dive with some Gs.
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The only time I reach 19,000 feet is when I go AFK while in auto-grab. :lol
Is the Hayate faster around 5,000 feet? :)
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Originally posted by Mitsu
And we still have poor dive performance in Ki-84.
Got lost V stab in 550mph dive with some Gs.
Sounds about right. My understanding is the Hayate didn't hold up too well under high speed dives. Correct?
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How long does the WEP last? I remember hearing the 84 only had 1 minute or so of WEP.
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The Ki-84's top speed @ sea level is about 324mph with military power.
343mph with overboost.
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Originally posted by TBolt A-10
Sounds about right. My understanding is the Hayate didn't hold up too well under high speed dives. Correct?
I can't say it's correct or not.
The famous mechanic of 47th Sentai (Ki-84 Squadron) said it could dive at 850km/h and wing is very strong.
But another pilot says The Ki-84 was not so good at dive like Ki-44...
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Originally posted by Mitsu
The Ki-84's top speed @ sea level is about 324mph with military power.
343mph with overboost.
is that faster?
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How much climb/acceleration did it lose?
How long does the overboost last? What is the climb rate on overboost and what is max speed down lower?
Also if custom WEP durations are being introduced, can we have a three minute WEP on the Spit V and a one minute WEP on the BF109F-4? IIRC those are the limits placed on those aircraft at the boost settings they have in AH2.
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got 325mph without WEP.
Yep, it's a bit faster, I think the ki-84's top speed of sea level is 324mph in old patch.
It's much faster than old one if it uses WEP.
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Originally posted by Mitsu
got 325mph without WEP.
Yep, it's a bit faster, I think the ki-84's top speed of sea level is 324mph in old patch.
It's much faster than old one if it uses WEP.
Awesome news! Thank you, Mitsu.
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Originally posted by Karnak
> How much climb/acceleration did it lose?
It lost about 500fpm with military power. (in 25% fuel settting.)
It still hold 4000fpm when using WEP.
>How long does the overboost last? What is the climb rate on overboost and what is max speed down lower?
about 1 minute 10 seconds. Top speed is 343mph at sea level w/ +400mgHg, 392mph at 19000ft w/ +350mmHg.
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I am not sure these are pertinant or whether or not they have been posted before, but I just found them and thought they might be interesting.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/482_1102719651_286_1088100520_ki84.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/482_1102719583_286_1088100577_ki84-2.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/482_1102719617_286_1088100766_ki84-perfdata3.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/482_1102719685_286_1088100833_frank+seafire.jpg)
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Well that certainly is good news.
392mph max at alt, 343mph max at deck. The figures look about spot on from what I'd expect from a typical Ki-84.
Was expecting something around 350 at deck for an optimistic view of things, but 343 isn't too bad either.
However, it could be a double-edged sword in some occasions. Especially at high alts. Whereas the old Ki84 we had could retain 392mph max speed and optimum climb rate indefinately, now the Ki84 is hampered with limited overboost issues.
Here's an OTD speed list made by whels from version 1.10. AH2 has seen some minor changes, but I think it'd still offer a nifty measurement on just how much more juice the Ki84 got now:
OTD speeds with WEP
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TEMPEST 386
LA-7 380
F4U-4 378
190D-9 375
TYPHOON 370
P-51D 367
109G-10 366
TA-152 361
SPIT-14 358
F4U-1 358
P-51B 358
F4U-1D 357
F4U-1C 356
LA-5 356
YAK9-U 355
190A-8 349
190F-8 349
P-38L 344
P-47D-11 344
Ki-84-Ia 343 (new and improved)
P-47D-25 340
P-47D-30 340
109G-2 340
190A-5 339
MOSQ 338
YAK9-T 336
109G-6 336
109F-4 332
C205 331
F6F-5 330
Ki-84-Ia 324 (old and inferior)
N1K2 324
SPIT IX 319
110-G2 316
C202 315
KI-61 313
SEAFIRE 302
SPIT V 302
110-4B 300
FM2 297
P40E 297
109E-4 292
SPIT I 291
A6M5 288
F4F 275 no wep
A6M2 275 NO WEP
P40B 275
HURR IIC 273
HURR IID 265
HURR I 261
Not too bad. Not too bad at all, in fact.
The Ki-84-Ia is now ranked at 20th place in top speed(prop planes). Among the 19 faster planes, four of them are perked which you almost never see in the arena, and three of them are F4U-1 variants, with virtually identical speeds. Two of them are 190As or models essentially based on the Anton(A-8 and F-8) and two are P-51s.
So, if you remove the perked ones and count variants with minor performance differences as one, the Ki-84-Ia's the 12th fastest plane on deck, three planes ranked above it are under 10mph range of difference.
The Yak-9U, La-5FN, F4U-1, Bf109G-10, P-51s, Typhoon, Fw190D-9 and the La-7 will outrun it with ease. Exclude the Hog, the Yak, and the La-5FN out on grounds of rare usage in the MA and basically under typical MA condtions only about the Fw190D-9, Typhoon, P-51 and the La-7, Bf109G-10 will outrun it - the five fastest non-perked planes in the list. Anything other than those five planes, would not be in the 'untouchable' speed difference from the Ki-84-Ia.
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There has to be good info on the Ki-84 with a HA-45-21 engine.
After all in FB/AEP/PF the Ki-84-1a is modelled with a tip speed of 685kmh at 5900m.
Imaged linked due to size
PF Ki-84 vs. P51D (http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/334_1102719864_fbki84p51d.jpg)
Chart taken from the newest version of IL2 compare.
Furious,
Yes that stuff has been posted a few times.
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The loss of climbrate makes it a far less appealing fighter.
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Bloody hell.
70 seconds of WEP is in no way worth losing that much accleration and climb rate.
If it lost 500fpm then it's climb rate at full fuel will be about 3,200fpm.
That is pretty dang crappy. I was expecting more like 100 or 200fpm lower.
70 seconds of WEP isn't long enough to be usefull. It isn't even long enough to test what the max speed is. I'd bet it is more like 340 or 341 than the 343 you guys are reporting. It's old speed on the deck was 323mph, not 324mph like Kweassa's post says.
Is it possible to get a fighter that isn't American or Russian and isn't perked that doesn't suck?
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70 seconds??? :eek:
I was expecting something like at least three minutes... or even two. 70 seconds seem to be pushing it..!
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The numbers I see most often for the Ki-84's climb rate are 3,600fpm and 3,750fpm. It used to do about that in AH when it had 100% fuel.
I wonder what data says it was that much lower?
I can't believe that they'd report it's climb rate based on 70 seconds of take off power.
What I expected was for the MIL climb rate to be reduced to 3,600fpm with full fuel. I didn't expect any overboost to be added, but with only 70 seconds of overboost it might as well not have been for combat purposes.
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I never really got more than about 3500 fpm with full tanks... kind of makes me wonder how you guys climb when I keep hearing talk of 4k+ fpm and the climb meter being pegged out.
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WEP duration is extremely short. While the engine does cool off quickly, I don't think it's fair to rank it among other fighters based on WEP numbers.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I never really got more than about 3500 fpm with full tanks... kind of makes me wonder how you guys climb when I keep hearing talk of 4k+ fpm and the climb meter being pegged out.
I only ever got 4,000fpm (and it was pretty much 4,000fpm on the dot, not 4,000+fpm) with 25% fuel. It's climb was consistantly overstated on the board.
Now it is still slow and climbs worse. It used to beat La-7s by going into the verticle. I wonder if it can still do that? It also used to be able to escape F4Us, P-51s and F6Fs by spiral climbing. I wonder if it can still do that. I doubt it with a drop of 500fpm in climb rate.
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The WEP in Ki-84 is pretty useful.
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Who cares....Just another plane faster than what I fly anyway. Just another runner IMO.:lol
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Originally posted by RedTop
Who cares....Just another plane faster than what I fly anyway. Just another runner IMO.:lol
Well you'd best watch it. Your plane is getting more WEP that it should be right now. Also 324mph is less than 10mph faster than your Spit V. That is hardly enough for it to run away from your Hispanos.
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Originally posted by Karnak
Well you'd best watch it. Your plane is getting more WEP that it should be right now. Also 324mph is less than 10mph faster than your Spit V. That is hardly enough for it to run away from your Hispanos.
LOL:lol
You havent seen me shoot:lol
Point taken tho Karnak:)
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So is this a fair summary: It performs worse than before most of the time but a little bit better for 70 seconds?
Yay /sarcasm
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Originally posted by Wotan
Chart taken from the newest version of IL2 compare.
Congrats to the newest version of IL2. P51D max rate of climb at 9000 feet = 4500 fpm :rofl
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OK, I take everything I said back.
The WEP on the Ki-84 is awesome.
True, it lost a bit of climb, about 250fpm or so, not 500fpm, but it's WEP is even better than it's MIL was before.
And as a bonus, while you may only have a minute or so of WEP, it cools off even faster than it heats up. So if you simply don't use WEP constantly it will last a long time.
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SL mil power climb at 100% fuel was 3200 fpm according to a test I did.
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Haven't flown it yet, may give it a go tonight. Only thing that really matters to me is if it kept that fantastic low speed manueverability.
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I tested it offline several times........WEP lasts about like Mitsu said, about 70 seconds, but it went from redlined to normal temps in 15-20 seconds, making repeated bursts of WEP possible.
Dang, I wish the Jug engine cooled off that fast.......heck, I wish just about ANY other plane's engine cooled that quickly.
BTW, I never got it to go above 389mph at any alt.
Did level flight top speed runs from 15-23K, in 1000 foot increments, i.e., 15K, then 16K, then 17K, etc.....
The boost guage seems wacky to me. At one alt, I will have to review the films, it was pulling only about 150mm/Hg boost, then I hit WEP and it shot up to 400(!!).
Over 20K or so, no rise in boost with WEP on.
Watching the airspeed indicator, when you hit WEP, it acts like you engaged N2O or a RATO unit....lol!
GAWD........I've gotta get back into the MA and have some fun with you guys.
Hopefully after Christmas, I can get RL issues resolved and fit AH back into my budget.
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I tried to run away with ki-84. I hit the NOS (overboost mode):) and lala(7) stayed D-600 behind me, gaining little distance.:D heck i can even catch lalas now... with some ease :)
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Yeah, use WEP in the vert, works wonders.
Turn it off as you come down the rope. It'll be cooled off before you get the kill :)
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great documentation, Furios.
hey guys...what's this about a fixed, aft-firing gun on the Frank? Just a rumor at the time, I suppose? :lol
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Well I thought Pyro sets Max speed with WEP is 350mph @ S.L...
Anyway, 343mph is enough speed.
The Ki-84 is more terrible frank from now. :)
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tested at 25% fuel 0.001 burn rate no wind
Ki-84-Ia has 1 minute 30 to 31 seconds of wep, cool down time is 46 to 47 seconds back to normal operating temperatures.. It looks like everyone is using the True Air Speed or Ground Speed and not the Indicated Air speeds. To me this is misleading
here are some speeds I came up with
0K: 326 IAS ( 20ft off deck ) w/WEP 343 IAS
5K: 319 IAS w/WEP 336 IAS
10K: 312 IAS w/WEP 316 IAS
15K: 288 IAS w/WEP 297 IAS
20K: 279 IAS w/WEP 283 IAS
25K: 251 IAS WEP of no benefit
30K: 217 IAS WEP of no benefit
default climb speed setting is : 163 IAS
WEP has no effect at 12.5K alt as well, speed is 302 IAS for both military & emergency
climbrate is almost nil once you hit above 36,000 ft, no reason to go that high anyhow just was looking for the service ceiling
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Originally posted by Karnak
I only ever got 4,000fpm (and it was pretty much 4,000fpm on the dot, not 4,000+fpm) with 25% fuel. It's climb was consistantly overstated on the board.
Now it is still slow and climbs worse. It used to beat La-7s by going into the verticle. I wonder if it can still do that? It also used to be able to escape F4Us, P-51s and F6Fs by spiral climbing. I wonder if it can still do that. I doubt it with a drop of 500fpm in climb rate.
Ok guys, quit bellyaching and go fly the plane.
From a standing start on the runway to 5,000 feet, the La-7 beats it by 1 second. That's just 100 yards behind at climb speeds. The La-7 wins because the Ki-84 runs out of WEP at 4,600 feet. Otherwise, the Ki-84 would have won.
How about acceleration? Try it, you will stop complaining. At 200 feet, 200 mph steady, add full power and WEP. Record time to reach 300 mph. Again, the La-7 wins by just 1 second. I latched onto a P-51D and he broke off to run. He was slightly faster than me at the outset (I was at 220 mph). Nonetheless, before he could use his speed advantage, I closed to 200 yards and shot off his wing with my last MG rounds.
You have 90 seconds of WEP and 1/2 that time to cool down to normal. I believe Mitsu verified this.
I did not see a loss of climb rate, it averages as good or better than before.
This thing only got better...
My regards,
Widewing
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Widewing,
Did you notice my follow up post from after I got home and had a chance to test it?
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Originally posted by Widewing [/B]
> You have 90 seconds of WEP and 1/2 that time to cool down to normal. I believe Mitsu verified this.
I think it is available for around 70 seconds.
> I did not see a loss of climb rate, it averages as good or better than before.
The Frank's climb rate is reduced approximately 250-500fpm in Military power.
However, it has much better climb rate than old one by using WEP.
You can get over 4000fpm climb rate with 75% fuel settings.
It's frigging amazing.
...OMG...We don't need the Ki-100 anymore...
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Originally posted by Karnak
Widewing,
Did you notice my follow up post from after I got home and had a chance to test it?
Yeah, but not until after I posted... Sorry! :)
Oh, and Mitsu, I timed WEP today at 90 seconds to verify my initial estimate. TC recorded the same time.
My regards,
Widewing
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Well,
Must be some difference. Some grumpy-gills felt the need to call "BS", on ch 200, twice no less, when he got his 109-ass handed to him (a number of times) by my mate MOG, the latter in a Ki-84.
Actually, I thought the low-level throttle-off floppy-fish maneuvers the 109 pulled were pretty BS myself, but refrained from saying so.
Cheers,
Scherf
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...OMG...We don't need the Ki-100 anymore...
You CANT be serious Mitsu :( We need all the Japanese planes we can squeeze out of HiTech and Pyro :lol
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Odds are good he thought the 2+ however much help you all had vs 1 was pretty lame too.. but apparently he refrained from saying anything about it. I'll say it for him.
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So we all agree the Ki-84 still Japwns!
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heheh urch:
Actually, that was the comment I was expecting, would have stayed out had he'd wanted, but he flew straight into us, over our gas factory / field.
Evidently, given his comments, my mossie didn't trouble him overmuch, which was the impression I had from my end too.
Cheers,
Scherf
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The 84 still owns. RAH!