Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Wotan on December 14, 2004, 09:59:19 AM
-
who can't be happy with that...?
-
Mmmmmm... more big twin engine birds to aim my potato shooter at... :D
At least it will help with ETO and PTO setups in the CT and SEA... ;)
-
The P-38G began to roll off the production lines in June of 1942. It was basically similar to the P-38F apart from a change to the Allison V-1710-51/55 (F10) engine with increased boost ratings and offering 1325 hp for takeoff. However, the engine was limited to 1150 hp at 27,000 feet due to inadequate cooling. In addition, the P-38G carried a SCR-274N radio and A-9 oxygen equipment.
Production of the P-38G was divided across six blocks. There were 708 US-ordered Model 222-68-12 aircraft. 80 of these were P-38G-1-LOs which were generally similar to the P-38F-15-LOs but with the new engines, improved oxygen equipment and more reliable radios. Twelve of them were P-38G-3-LOs with B-13 superchargers. 68 were P-38G-5-LOs with revised instrumentation and 548 were P-38G-10-LOs which combined the improvements introduced in the two previous blocks with winterization equipment, provision for carrying 1600 lb bombs underneath the wing center section, or a triple cluster of 4.5-inch rocket launchers on each side of the central nacelle. The 374 Model 322-68-19s (174 P-38G-13-LOs, equivalent to the P-38G-3-LO and 200 P-38G-15-LOs, corresponding to the P-38G-5-LO) came from the cancelled British contract for Lightning IIs which was taken over by the USAAF.
Unarmed photographic reconnaissance versions of the P-38G were also produced under the designation F-5A. A single F-5A-2-LO (model 222-62-16) was completed by modifying a P-38E airframe (41-2157) by installing V-1719-21/29 engines. All of the other F-5As (Model 222-68-16) had P-38G airframes and 1325 hp V-1710-51/55 engines. Twenty F-5A-1-LOs, twenty F-5A-3-LOs, and 140 F-5A-10-LOs had the same modifications as P-38G variants with corresponding block numbers, and came off the production line in parallel with their fighter counterparts. All were unarmed and carried five cameras.
One F-5A-10-LO (Ser No 42-12975) was modified as an experimental two-seat reconnaissance aircraft under the designation XF-5D-LO. The camera operator was located in a glazed nose compartment with two forward-firing 0.50-in machine guns. Three K-17 cameras were installed, one underneath the nose and one in each tail boom.
One P-38G-5-LO (42-12866) was used as a testbed for the proposed XP-49 armament (two 20-mm cannon and four 0.50-in machine guns). The USAAF also undertook at Wright Field preliminary design for a proposed derivative of the P-38G which was to have carried a 75-mm cannon in a revised and enlarged central nacelle. However, this concept never got past the initial design stage.
The P-38G had a loaded weight some 200 pounds less than that of the P-38F, and was the most widely-built version of the early Lightnings. 1082 P-38Gs had been delivered by March of 1943. 181 of these had been completed as F-5A photo reconnaissance aircraft and another 200 had been completed as F-5Bs with camera installations similar to that of the F-5A-10-LO but with engines and airframe identical to those of the later P-38J-5-LO. One F-5A-10-LO (Ser No 42-12975) was modified as an experimental two-seat reconnaissance aircraft under the designation XF-5D-LO.
Specification of P-38G-1-LO
Maximum speed: 345 mph at 5000 feet, 360 mph at 10,000 feet, 400 mph at 25,000 feet. 850 miles range on internal fuel at cruising speed of 219 mph at 10,000 feet. 1750 miles range at 211 mph at 10,000 feet with two 125 Imp. gall. drop tanks. Climb to 10,000 feet in 3.7 minutes, climb to 20,000 feet in 8.5 minutes. Service ceiling of 39,000 feet. Weights were 12,200 lbs empty, 15,800 lbs normal loaded, 19,800 lbs maximum loaded. Dimensions were wingspan 52 feet 0 inches, length 37 feet 10 inches, height 9 feet 10 inches, wing area 327.5 square feet. Armed with one 20-mm Hispano M1 cannon with 150 rounds and four 0.50-in Colt-Browning MG 53-2 machine guns with 500 rounds per gun. Could carry two 325, 500, or 1000-lb bombs.
-
Nice I had actually given up on the 38s showing up anytime soon.
-
Through all the modifications leading from XP-38 to P-38H, the basic contours of the engine nacelles of the Lightning had remained virtually unchanged. The P-38J version, which first began to appear in August of 1943, introduced some appreciable differences in the geometry of the engine nacelles which make this and later versions easily distinguishable from earlier versions of the Lightning.
Earlier P-38s had passed the compressed air from the turbosuperchargers through a hollow passageway lying along the leading edge of the wing all the way from boom to wing tip and back in order to cool it down before it entered the carburetor. There were problems encountered with this arrangement. The difficulty in controlling the superchargers caused frequent engine backfires, some of which actually caused changes in the shape of the wing leading edge. The large area of these wing intercoolers also make them vulnerable to gunfire. The P-38J (known by the Lockheed company as the Model 422) introduced a revised powerplant installation, with the intercooler being changed to a core-type radiator located below the engine. The air intake for the intercooler was sandwiched between the oil radiator intakes in a deeper, lower nose. The core-type radiator took cooling air through the central duct behind the propeller and exhausted it through a controllable exit flap, thus permitting a considerable amount of control over the the temperature of the air entering the carburetor. The leading edge tunnels were eliminated and were replaced by additional self-sealing fuel cells in the outer wing panels.
This modification was initially tested on P-38E Ser No 41-1983. The P-38J also had redesigned Prestone coolant scoops on the tail booms. All P-38Js retained the V-1719-89/91 engines of the P-38Hs, but their more efficient cooling installations enabled military rating at 27,000 feet to be increased from 1240 to 1425 hp, while at that altitude war emergency rating was 1600 hp.
The revised beard radiators produced some additional drag, but it was more than adequately compensated for by the improved cooling which made the Allison finally capable of delivering its full rated power at altitude. Consequently, the P-38J was the fastest variant of the entire Lightning series--420 mph at 26,500 feet. Maximum speed at 5000 feet was 369 mph, 390 mph at 15,000 feet. Range was 475 miles at 339 mph at 25,000 feet, 800 miles at 285 mph at 10,000 feet, and 1175 miles at 195 mph at 10,000 feet. Maximum range was 2260 miles at 186 mph at 10,000 feet with two 250 Imp gall drop tanks. An altitude of 5000 feet could be attained in 2 minutes, 15,000 feet in 5 minutes, 10,000 feet in 7 minutes. Service ceiling was 44,000 feet. Weights were 12,780 lbs empty, 17,500 lbs normal loaded, 21,600 lbs maximum. Wingspan was 52 feet 0 inches, length was 37 feet 10 inches, and height was 9 feet 10 inches. Wing area was 327.5 square feet. Armament consisted of one 20-mm Hispano M2(C) cannon with 150 rounds plus four 0.50-inch Colt-Browning MG 53-2 machine guns with 500 rounds per gun. In addition two 500, 1000, or 1600-lb bombs or ten five-inch rockets could be carried on underwing racks.
The 1010 Model 422-81-14s included three production blocks. The first block consisted of ten service test P-38J-1-LOs. These were quickly followed by 210 P-83J-5-LOs with two 55-US gallon additional fuel tanks in the leading edge space previously occupied by the intercoolers and thus restoring maximum internal fuel capacity to 410 gallons (1010 gallons with drop tanks). Modifications, including the addition of stiffeners, were required to prevent deformation of the new wet wing leading edge. The last production block consisted of 790 P-38J-10-LOs with flat windshields with the bulletproof glass panel being incorporated into the windshield.
These were followed by Model 422-81-22s in two blocks. The first block consisted of 1400 P-38J-15-LOs with revised electrical systems. The second block consisted of 350 P-38J-20-LOs with modified turbo regulators.
When earlier J-series Lightnings went into a high speed dive, their controls would suddenly lock up when a certain speed was reached and the nose would begin to tuck under, making recovery from the dive very difficult. The problem would begin at Mach 0.65 to 0.68, accompanied by vigorous buffeting and a strong nose-down pitch. As speed increased, it became progressively more and more difficult to recover from the dive, larger and larger stick forces being required for a pullout. At Mach 0.72, dive recovery became for all practical purposes impossible, and runaway dives that got this far out of hand usually had fatal results. The onset of severe buffeting would, of course, usually provide adequate warning for a pilot in a diving P-38 that he was about to encounter a problem, but it is easy to get distracted while in the stress of combat. This dive recovery problem was so severe that the Lightnings found it very difficult to follow German fighters in a dive, allowing many Luftwaffe fighters to escape unscathed.
The problem was eventually traced to a shock wave that formed over the wings as the Lightning entered the transonic regime, the shock wave preventing the elevators from operating. In order to counteract this problem, starting with the P-38J-25-LO (Model 422-81-23) production block, a small electrically-operated dive flap was added underneath each wing outboard of the engine nacelles and hinged to the main spar. These dive flaps would change the characteristics of the airflow over the wing, offsetting the formation of the shock wave and permitting the elevators to operate properly. This innovation largely solved the problems encountered by diving P-38s.
The P-38J-25-LO production block also introduced power-boosted ailerons. These consisted of ailerons that were operated by a hydraulically-actuated bell-crank and push-pull rod, making it easier for the pilot to maneuver the airplane at high airspeeds. This boosting system was one of the first applications of powered controls to any fighter, and required only 17 percent of the previous stick forces. The hydraulic aileron booster system vastly improved the roll rate and thereby increased the effectiveness of the P-38 in combat. P-38Js with power-boosted ailerons proved to have the highest roll-rates of any fighter.
210 P-38J-25-LOs were built.
In March of 1944, Colonel Benjamin Kelsey reached an indicated speed of more than 750 mph during a high-speed dive in a P-38, which would have made the P-38 the first supersonic fighter. However, it was later discovered that compressibility effects on the airspeed indicator at about 550 mph had given a greatly exaggerated reading. Nevertheless, the Lightning handled quite well at high speeds, and its strong airframe withstood the excessive aerodynamic loading produced by these high-speed dives.
With the increased use of the Lightning as a light bomber, the type was modified to carry in place of the forward-firing armament either a bombardier with a Norden bombsight in a glazed nose enclosure, or a "Mickey" BTO (Bombing Through Overcast) bombing radar in the nose with an operator station between the radar and the pilot's cockpit. These modifications were developed at the Lockheed Modification Center in Dallas, Texas. These so-called "droop-snoot" Lightnings were used to lead formations of P-38s each carrying two 2000-lb bombs which were released on instructions from the lead bombardier.
Two P-38J-20-LOs (serials 44-23544 and 44-23549) were modified in Australia during the autumn of 1944 for use as single-seat night fighters, carrying AN/APS-4 radar in a pod underneath the starboard wing. These modifications were tested in New Guinea and the Philippines.
A P-38J-5-LO (serial number 42-67104) was tested at Wright Field and Orlando, Florida as an experimental night fighter with a radar operator sitting on a jump seat just aft of the pilot. The AN/APS-4 radar was initially mounted under the fuselage in a pod just aft of the nosewheel. This pod proved to be rather easily damaged by stones thrown up by the nosewheel during takeoffs and landings, so it was repositioned beneath the starboard wing, but this resulted in interference from the adjacent engine nacelle.
Beginning in September of 1944, a P-38J was used to test a unique method for extending the range of escort fighters by having the fighter engage a hook trailed from a B-24H bomber. Attached to the hook was a standard drop tank. After contact, the tank was automatically attached to standard external tank fittings beneath the fighter's wing. The method proved to be basically feasible, but it required considerable skill on the part of the Lightning pilot in order for it to work. Consequently, this innovation was not pursued any further.
A number of P-38Js were modified in service as TP-38J-LO two-seat "piggyback" trainers with a jump seat aft of the pilot. Some of these aircraft carried an AN/APS-4 radar pod underneath the starboard wing and were used to train P-38M crews.
At least one P-38J was successfully flown with skis. P-38J-1-LO Ser No 42-13565 was fitted with an experimental retractable ski installation.
The F-5C-1-LO was the designation given to P-38J airframes converted at the Dallas Modification Center to a standard basically similar to that of the F-5B-1-LO but with improved camera installations. A total of 123 aircraft is believed to have been so modified. The serial numbers of the P-38J aircraft so modified are not known.
A total of 200 P-38J-15-LO fighter airframes were converted in Dallas to F-5E-2-LO reconnaissance configuration. These were produced to a standard similar to that of the F-5C-1-LO. The designation F-5E-3-LO was given to a similar conversion of 205 P-38J-25-LO airframes. Again, any record of the serial numbers of the P-38J aircraft modified to F-5E-2-LO or F-5E-3-LO standards seems to have been lost.
-
oh my the gods are heard !!
:aok :aok
I hope the G is a good perkpoint collector
not that really use the points
-
i may start to fly the 38 again...
-
nice, but with the G being added, would we really need the J since they're pretty close to the L's performance wise?
in any case, glad it's being done.
-
Wonder if ack-ack is happy now.
-
This is pretty impressive ...
Consequently, the P-38J was the fastest variant of the entire Lightning series--420 mph at 26,500 feet. Maximum speed at 5000 feet was 369 mph, 390 mph at 15,000 feet.
Looks like the La-La will have a match on or near the deck.
-
The question is, which G and which J? I'd kind of like to have an H, I have friends who flew them, in the 20th and 55th.
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
Consequently, the P-38J was the fastest variant of the entire Lightning series--420 mph at 26,500 feet. Maximum speed at 5000 feet was 369 mph, 390 mph at 15,000 feet.
That's only true if you deny the P-38L use of true WEP. Note that ALL published ratings for the P-38L do not give top speed @ WEP, but rather stop with top speed at Military Power, with the P-38L being shown as slower than the P-38J.
-
So, what will be the actual differences in the Ingame planes between the 3 P38's?
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
This is pretty impressive ...
Consequently, the P-38J was the fastest variant of the entire Lightning series--420 mph at 26,500 feet. Maximum speed at 5000 feet was 369 mph, 390 mph at 15,000 feet.
Looks like the La-La will have a match on or near the deck.
PJ = spray, pray and run away?
-
I thought this might get some attention also, surprised no one has mentioned it yet.
Effects are still being worked on for 2.02. Sudz has finished quite a few new effects and is currently working on hit effects.
BTW, don't want to jump to conclusions but I'm guessing that the P38s will be remodelled to the levels of the Ki84/B24?
-
Looks like the La-La will have a match on or near the deck.
Actually, Slap, at 5k our P-38L already does about 362mph. The La-7 at 5k, does over 400mph.
At least in terms of speed, whatever P-38 it is, it can't match the Lala until the alt reaches 12k or so.
-
Isnt this J model basically indestingusable from our L? Same speed, dive flaps, powered controls?
Whats the point?
-
BTW Thanks for the update HTC :)
-
Guess it'll depend on which J model they do if they do it at all. From the excellent info Slapshot presented, earlier J models didn't have dive flaps or powered controls.
-
By 'powered' you mean hydraulics?
Think stiff... very stiff :) high speed rolls anyway.
Are the L's dive flaps effective at all? I've never really seen any difference.
-
Originally posted by Shane
nice, but with the G being added, would we really need the J since they're pretty close to the L's performance wise?
in any case, glad it's being done.
Getting the J puts the P38 in scenarios that otherwise have excluded it due to time of service issues.
shubie
-
cant wait to see these in ct! need a re-match with those germans.
-
The P-38L was the final production version of the Lightning and was numerically the most important of all the Lightning versions. Lockheed built 3810 P-38Ls and Consolidated-Vultee at Nashville built 113 more. The P-38L was powered by 1475 hp Allison V-1710-111/113 engines with a war emergency rating of 1600 hp at 28,700 feet and a military rating of 1475 hp at 30,000 feet. Except for the more powerful engines, the P-38L was generally quite similar to the previous P-38J.
The P-38L was produced in two blocks. The 1290 P-38L-1-LOs were similar to the P-38J-25-LOs except for the new engines. Some were modified by the USAAF as TP-38L-1-LO two-seat familiarization trainers. The 2520 P-38L-5-LOs had submerged fuel pumps and, after the unsatisfactory testing fourteen five-inch HVAR on zero-length launchers beneath the wing outer panel, underwing rocket "trees" for ten five-inch rockets were mounted. The racks underneath the wing center sections were strengthened to enable either 2000-lb bombs or 300-US gallon drop tanks to be carried.
Like the P-38J, the P-38L could be fitted with either a glazed bombardier station or bombing radar in the nose.
P-38L-1-LO Ser No 44-23601 was fitted with three 0.60-inch machine guns in a postwar experiment. However, tests at Elgin AFB in 1946 were not successful. The guns themselves betrayed structural deficiencies, and the shell links failed whenever the aircraft underwent either positive or negative acceleration.
P-38L-1-LO Serial No 44-24649 was modified as a specialized ground strafing version with eight 0.50-inch guns in the nose and two underwing pods each carrying two more 0.50-in machine guns
P-38L-5-LO Ser No 44-25605 was rebuilt by Hindustan Aircraft in India as a special VIP aircraft for a General Stratemeyer. The plane had a transparent nose, which made it look a lot like the "Droop Snoot" pathfinder Lightnings used in the European theatre. The General sat in a special seat inside the nose, and the inside walls of his "office" were lined with leather. There were even provisions for a built-in Thermos jug (I won't even ask what was IN the jug :-)). Sort of reminds me of General Dreedle in the movie *Catch 22*. Nowadays, if *Sixty Minutes* were to get wind of such an extravagance on the part of the military, heads would roll.
Specification of the P-38L:
14,100 lbs empty, 17,500 lbs combat loaded. Maximum speed was 360 mph at 5000 feet, 390 mph at 15,000 feet, 414 mph at 25,000 feet. An altitude of 20,000 feet could be reached in 7 minutes. Service ceiling was 40,000 feet. Maximum range at sea level was 900 miles. At 30,000 feet, maximum range was 2260 miles (with drop tanks). Dimensions were wingspan 52 feet 0 inches, length 37 feet 10 inches, height 12 feet 10 inches, and wing area 328 square feet Armed with one 20-mm Hispano AN-M2C cannon with 150 rounds and four 0.50-inch Browning machine guns with 500 rounds per gun.
There were two photographic reconnaissance versions of the P-38L, designated F-5F and F-5G. All F-5F and F-5G photo-reconnaissance planes were modified from existing P-38L airframes at Lockheed's modification center in Dallas. The photographic-reconnaissance version of the P-38L-5-LO was designated F-5F-3-LO. It combined the P-38L-5-LO airframe and engines with the revised camera installation of the F-5F-LO. The last photographic-reconnaissance version of the Lightning was the F-5G-6-LO. It was modified in Dallas from P-38L-5-LO airframes. It differed from the F-5F-3-LO in having revised nose contours to provide more space for photographic equipment and a wider selection of cameras. No record seems to survive of the serial numbers of the P-38Ls that were converted to F-5F and F-5G photo-reconnaissance aircraft.
In June 1944, the USAAF had supplemented Lockheed's production capacity with a order from the Consolidated-Vultee Aircraft Corporation plant at Nashville, Tennessee for 2000 P-38L-5-VN fighters. These planes were similar to the Lockheed-built P-38L-5-LO. Delays in getting the new production line started resulted in only 113 P-38L-5-VNs being delivered to the USAAF by the end of the war in August of 1945. Shortly after V-J Day, the remaining 1887 aircraft of the order were cancelled. A similar fate befell 1380 P-38L-5-LO fighters then on order from Lockheed.
After the war was over, large numbers of P-38Ls were scrapped or sold off as surplus. The small number of P-38Ls still remaining in USAF service in 1948 were redesignated F-38L.
There is a P-38L currently on display at the Wright-Patterson Air Force Museum in Dayton, Ohio. However, it is painted as a P-38J-10-LO with a serial number of 42-67855.
-
I would pay perks for this loadout ...
P-38L-1-LO Serial No 44-24649 was modified as a specialized ground strafing version with eight 0.50-inch guns in the nose and two underwing pods each carrying two more 0.50-in machine guns
Count 'em ... 12 x .50cal ... :eek:
-
I am jazzed! :D
------------------------
CO CM daddog
Squad Operations (http://events.hitechcreations.com/squadops/index.php)
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.332nd.org/)
332nd Roster (http://www.332nd.org/squadroster.htm)
Special Events (http://events.hitechcreations.com/)
Noses in the wind since 1997.
daddog@hitechcreations.com
(http://www.332nd.org/cdaddog.jpg)
The Ta152 still doesn't match the chart I made myself in the office with my photocopier!! – gman
-
This is great. I love the big target that p38s present in the sky.
-
Specification of P-38G-1-LO
Maximum speed: 345 mph at 5000 feet, 360 mph at 10,000 feet, 400 mph at 25,000 feet.
850 miles range on internal fuel at cruising speed of 219 mph at 10,000 feet. 1750 miles range at 211 mph at 10,000 feet with two 125 Imp. gall. drop tanks.
Climb to 10,000 feet in 3.7 minutes, climb to 20,000 feet in 8.5 minutes. Service ceiling of 39,000 feet.
Weights were 12,200 lbs empty, 15,800 lbs normal loaded, 19,800 lbs maximum loaded.
Dimensions were wingspan 52 feet 0 inches, length 37 feet 10 inches, height 9 feet 10 inches, wing area 327.5 square feet.
Armed with one 20-mm Hispano M1 cannon with 150 rounds and four 0.50-in Colt-Browning MG 53-2 machine guns with 500 rounds per gun. Could carry two 325, 500, or 1000-lb bombs.
Specification of the P-38J:
Maximum speed at 5000 feet was 369 mph, 390 mph at 15,000 feet, 420 mph at 26,500 feet.
Range was 475 miles at 339 mph at 25,000 feet, 800 miles at 285 mph at 10,000 feet, and 1175 miles at 195 mph at 10,000 feet.
Maximum range was 2260 miles at 186 mph at 10,000 feet with two 250 Imp gall drop tanks.
An altitude of 5000 feet could be attained in 2 minutes, 15,000 feet in 5 minutes, 10,000 feet in 7 minutes. Service ceiling was 44,000 feet.
Weights were 12,780 lbs empty, 17,500 lbs normal loaded, 21,600 lbs maximum.
Wingspan was 52 feet 0 inches, length was 37 feet 10 inches, and height was 9 feet 10 inches. Wing area was 327.5 square feet.
Armament consisted of one 20-mm Hispano M2(C) cannon with 150 rounds plus four 0.50-inch Colt-Browning MG 53-2 machine guns with 500 rounds per gun.
In addition two 500, 1000, or 1600-lb bombs or ten five-inch rockets could be carried on underwing racks.
Specification of the P-38L:
Maximum speed was 360 mph at 5000 feet, 390 mph at 15,000 feet, 414 mph at 25,000 feet.
Maximum range at sea level was 900 miles. At 30,000 feet, maximum range was 2260 miles (with drop tanks).
An altitude of 20,000 feet could be reached in 7 minutes. Service ceiling was 40,000 feet.
14,100 lbs empty, 17,500 lbs combat loaded.
Dimensions were wingspan 52 feet 0 inches, length 37 feet 10 inches, height 12 feet 10 inches, and wing area 328 square feet
Armed with one 20-mm Hispano AN-M2C cannon with 150 rounds and four 0.50-inch Browning machine guns with 500 rounds per gun.
The racks underneath the wing center sections were strengthened to enable either 2000-lb bombs or 300-US gallon drop tanks to be carried.
-
YAY! more america planeS!!!!!
-
Remodel N1K2 and plan to release N1K1 please?
or Ki-100...Ugrhhhh.... :)
-
Mitsu, this is 38 thread....niki thread is 2 doors down on your left.:)
-
We needed the P-38F or P-38G for scenarios.
The P-38J is icing on the cake really.
-
Originally posted by killnu
Mitsu, this is 38 thread....niki thread is 2 doors down on your left.:)
Oops, I thought this thread is "Ki61b and Ki61-2 and a reworked Ki-61-I-Tei " :D
-
Originally posted by Wotan
who can't be happy with that...?
It's the only thing that is keeping me from cancelling my account. I just wonder which of the J models we'll be getting. I hope an early model J as the late model J would be a little redundant since we have the L model.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Shane
nice, but with the G being added, would we really need the J since they're pretty close to the L's performance wise?
in any case, glad it's being done.
Early model J wouldn't be, a late model J would be.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Octavius
Are the L's dive flaps effective at all? I've never really seen any difference.
Yes they are.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It's the only thing that is keeping me from cancelling my account. I just wonder which of the J models we'll be getting. I hope an early model J as the late model J would be a little redundant since we have the L model.
ack-ack
Either one of these would be nice ...
"These were followed by Model 422-81-22s in two blocks. The first block consisted of 1400 P-38J-15-LOs with revised electrical systems. The second block consisted of 350 P-38J-20-LOs with modified turbo regulators. "
It appears that once you get to the P-38J-25-LO you are pretty much near the "L" series.
-
Originally posted by SlapShot
Either one of these would be nice ...
"These were followed by Model 422-81-22s in two blocks. The first block consisted of 1400 P-38J-15-LOs with revised electrical systems. The second block consisted of 350 P-38J-20-LOs with modified turbo regulators. "
It appears that once you get to the P-38J-25-LO you are pretty much near the "L" series.
The P-38J-25-LO series were the ones that were basically the same as the L model.
-
dam.
-
come back you dork.
ack-ack
-
No one answered my question. Is there anything better about these planes? Any advantage taking a 38j over a 38L?
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
No one answered my question. Is there anything better about these planes? Any advantage taking a 38j over a 38L?
There doesnt appear to be any advantage to taking an earlier model ... its like taking a Spit V compare to a Spit IX and then again the Spit XIV. The earlier the model the less it had, but each with its own strengths/characteristics.
Only advantage would be that the ENY for these early models will be higher than the "L" model so you get more perkies.
It does appear that the "J" model was quite fast (faster than the "L") but does not roll anywhere near as fast as the "L".
-
Originally posted by lasersailor184
No one answered my question. Is there anything better about these planes? Any advantage taking a 38j over a 38L?
Not really. They are all obviously earlier models. Anything earlier than a P-38J-25-Lo will have neither the dive flaps nor the hydraulicly boosted ailerons.
They should be at least a little better for perk farming, if you do that sort of thing. For really good P-38 pilots, they'll be good for suckering enemy planes, provided they are marked as earlier model P-38's.
Ideally, since we aren't yet getting anything pre-G model, we should get the P-38G-10-Lo and the P-38J-20-Lo.
I'd REALLY like to see the P-38H-5-Lo, since that is what the 55th FG went into combat with in 10-43. The 20th also flew the P-38H-5-Lo, in addition to SOME P-38G-10-Lo planes (the 20th and the 55th had a very few of those).
They BEGAN switching to the P-38J-5-Lo and P-38J-10-Lo in December. They did not get the P-38J-15-Lo and the P-38J-20-Lo until later. Then the P-38J-25-Lo came along before they got the P-38L, about the same time the transitioned to the P-51, in mid 1944.
-
The late P-38 (the J-25-Lo and the L series) only had a roll advantage at relatively high speeds, where the hydraulic boost on the ailerons helped overcome the forces holding them still. At lower speeds, where high effort was not required to move the ailerons, there is no real advantage.
-
Originally posted by Mitsu
Remodel N1K2 and plan to release N1K1 please?
or Ki-100...Ugrhhhh.... :)
What Mitsu said :) The Japanese planeset is woefully inadequate imho. We dont even have the Oscar yet :(
-
You p38 dweebs be sure to check out the new 38 sounds in wafflesounds 3.2. Even Akak said they are the best 38 sound he's heard in any flight simulation :)
of course, he could be joshing and never even downloaded it - lol
-
The Ox is in the wind and the mountain bloweth the Frog.
-
Mits, i of course was only kidding :D
and
i dont care what 38 we get, any would be greatly appreciated. would like an early J, even a late J...bah i dont care, just give me one.:aok
-
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
You p38 dweebs be sure to check out the new 38 sounds in wafflesounds 3.2. Even Akak said they are the best 38 sound he's heard in any flight simulation :)
of course, he could be joshing and never even downloaded it - lol
I was serious. In any flight sim I've played that had the P-38, they never sounded as good as the sounds you just put out. They sounded so good that I found myself taking some hops just to hear the engine purr.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by streetstang
The Ox is in the wind and the mountain bloweth the Frog.
The chair is against the wall. Johnny has a new mustache.
ack-ack
-
The spot is on the floor, the camel is loose in the back yard.
-
The lights are on the tree and Jeff ate all the wings ... ;)
-
Question: just how much does the dive flaps effect the plane in real life, and how much does it effect in AH2?
I'm by no means experienced in P-47Ds or P-38Ls, but empirically, in case of the P-47D-40 I hardly notice any real difference in handling when dive flaps are turned on.
Being used to Bf109s I'd say I know how 'limited in dive speeds' feel - the P-47D-40 seems to handle very well in pitch response at all speed ranges, and frankly I've never bothered using dive flaps in the D-40.
On the contrary, I can't feel any kind of difference between dive flaps raised or lowered, in the P-38L. If I step over a certain line the plane will refuse to pull up without sufficient trim input.
In IL2/FB, it is very different. When you engage dive flaps in the P-38L the plane would immediately pull up, almost doing a loop by itself. So naturally, in IL2/FB there was a reason to prefer the P-38L over the P-38J. The P-38J locks up at high speeds, and the slight speed penalty was worth it in the P-38L - the dive flaps really made a lot of difference.
..
So, just how much is the dive flaps supposed to help?
-
Originally posted by Waffle BAS
You p38 dweebs be sure to check out the new 38 sounds in wafflesounds 3.2.
AWESOME Waffle!
-
Ohhhh boy.... P38J is bad news betty. ;)
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
Question: just how much does the dive flaps effect the plane in real life, and how much does it effect in AH2?
I'm by no means experienced in P-47Ds or P-38Ls, but empirically, in case of the P-47D-40 I hardly notice any real difference in handling when dive flaps are turned on.
Being used to Bf109s I'd say I know how 'limited in dive speeds' feel - the P-47D-40 seems to handle very well in pitch response at all speed ranges, and frankly I've never bothered using dive flaps in the D-40.
On the contrary, I can't feel any kind of difference between dive flaps raised or lowered, in the P-38L. If I step over a certain line the plane will refuse to pull up without sufficient trim input.
In IL2/FB, it is very different. When you engage dive flaps in the P-38L the plane would immediately pull up, almost doing a loop by itself. So naturally, in IL2/FB there was a reason to prefer the P-38L over the P-38J. The P-38J locks up at high speeds, and the slight speed penalty was worth it in the P-38L - the dive flaps really made a lot of difference.
..
So, just how much is the dive flaps supposed to help?
IIRC, the dive flaps in the P-38 would pitch the nose up 3 to 4 degrees.
In AH, if you have the P-38 elevators trimmed to neutral and use the dive flaps, you'll see the nose pitch up. Of course, using Combat flaps negates the positive pitch the dive flaps give you.
ack-ack
-
Only 3 degrees???
-
ive been flying the p38 f in target rabual and been having a ball dumbfounding medium skill zero pilots, i can do a rolling scisors all day in that baby, just bounces along, not sure if its the tw fm or what but its fun to fly, ive flown the g and cant see a huge difference, tho it is slightly lighter.
i heard somewhere that the earlier p38s turned better. any truth to that?
-
Levier and Mattern both said the dive flaps made a big difference to them. They were able to dive to around .72 Mach and recover without undue drama. Of course, while Levier was a good test pilot, he freely admitted he was no combat pilot.
Stan, Art, and others, all said that after the P-38J-25-Lo entered service, they pretty much felt free to dive from any height. Whereas before they were not at all enthusiastic about diving from much above 20K. Art said they were regularly used to get a good bit of nose up pitch during combat to get a gun solution. I think it was Art who called them speed boards.
There is much arguement about what the flaps were capable of, and what the pilots did with them. Pilots I know said that even above 25K, they'd drop the dive flaps and chase an enemy right on down to the deck if they wanted, without any worries of compressing and diving into the ground. Many will dispute this vehemently.
-
I heard the F was the best of the turners but the worst in the vertical.
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by eilif
i heard somewhere that the earlier p38s turned better. any truth to that?
Some, maybe. The J and L models were heavier, with more power, the earlier models were lighter, and had less power.
-
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
There is much arguement about what the flaps were capable of, and what the pilots did with them. Pilots I know said that even above 25K, they'd drop the dive flaps and chase an enemy right on down to the deck if they wanted, without any worries of compressing and diving into the ground. Many will dispute this vehemently.
Didn't Levier show this in a flight demo he did when the late model Js and L models were starting to roll out to convince pilots that the P-38 can infact dive safely?
ack-ack
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
I heard the F was the best of the turners but the worst in the vertical.
ack-ack
The F was somewhat underpowered, due to the inefficiencies of the intercoolers and the radiators, not to mention the engines themselves just could not make as much power. I'm not sure the F is enough lighter than either the G or H to make it turn better, and with lower power the sustained turn may not be as good.
-
the g is lighter than the f, there were some engine tweaks with the release of the g but im not sure what they did, if anything hp wise. and the f sure stinks in the verticle vs zeros, that i can vouch for! bleeds e rediculously bad.
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
Didn't Levier show this in a flight demo he did when the late model Js and L models were starting to roll out to convince pilots that the P-38 can infact dive safely?
ack-ack
Levier did a bunch of demonstrations, all over the place. It is quite possible he did one or more demonstrations of the improved dive capabilites as well. Just thumbing through Levier's report on his trip to Europe in early 44, I see not mention of the dive demonstration specifically. However, Art said they didn't get their P-38J-25-Lo's until April or so. Levier's report was for a visit in February and March.
However, Levier had plenty to say about screw ups in the manual and in the command staff. Very little was being done correctly, and most of that was being done only by a few. What he found is EXACTLY what was wrong with the 8th AF with regards to the P-38.
-
My eyes start to glaze over when the data starts to fly.
I'm going to die alot in the G model cause I think the early model small intake 38s are the best looking of the Lightnings.
That and those early model 38 drivers were the ones taking on the vets of the LW and Japanese whether it be in North Africa up through Sicily and Italy, or over Rabaul etc.
Sometimes flying a plane in AH has more to do with what it represents to the person flying it.
It isn't always about having the one that goes the fastest, turns the best, flies the highest or has the best guns.
It doesn't have to be uber to be fun
Dan/Slack
-
Flying lightning is flying with style.
-
Originally posted by Captain Virgil Hilts
Levier did a bunch of demonstrations, all over the place. It is quite possible he did one or more demonstrations of the improved dive capabilites as well. Just thumbing through Levier's report on his trip to Europe in early 44, I see not mention of the dive demonstration specifically. However, Art said they didn't get their P-38J-25-Lo's until April or so. Levier's report was for a visit in February and March.
However, Levier had plenty to say about screw ups in the manual and in the command staff. Very little was being done correctly, and most of that was being done only by a few. What he found is EXACTLY what was wrong with the 8th AF with regards to the P-38.
From Bodie's book on the Lightning
"Unfortunately, during the Levier tour, a Douglas C54 that was carrying more then 200 sets of dive-flap retrofit kits to be installed on virtually all P38J-10-LO through -20-LO fighters in the UK was shot down by an overzelous RAF pilot who mistook the Skymaster for a FW200 Condor."
It also mentions that Levier did do demonstrations in a P38J-10-LO that had been modfied with all the P38J-25/L retrofit changes that brought it up to P38L standards. Levier's 38 was named "Snafuperman".
He did do dive tests against P47s with this 38 and had no trouble with it.
Dan/Slack
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
Only 3 degrees???
Some time ago someone posted some source that said it would pull out the plane with 4 g...
-
Originally posted by Ack-Ack
It's the only thing that is keeping me from cancelling my account. I just wonder which of the J models we'll be getting. I hope an early model J as the late model J would be a little redundant since we have the L model.
ack-ack
Cancel your account? Cripes I thought you were hard coded into the thing. :D
...-Gixer
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
It isn't always about having the one that goes the fastest, turns the best, flies the highest or has the best guns.
It doesn't have to be uber to be fun
Dan/Slack
bingo!
-
I'm jazzed about the addition of the "G"
I'm really hoping we get a Ki-43, or A6M3 to go with it :)
Hellooooo New Guinea!
-Sik
-
LoL I have not flown since before the ki43.. I have not even d/l'd that update yet..
I now have 2 reasons to come back to AH soon! glllleeeeeeeeeee
-
Originally posted by Guppy35
Sometimes flying a plane in AH has more to do with what it represents to the person flying it.
It isn't always about having the one that goes the fastest, turns the best, flies the highest or has the best guns.
It doesn't have to be uber to be fun
Dan/Slack
Boy do I see some heartache in your future...
I think the time will come when you get sick of handicapping yourself vis a vis the horde. Comes around for me every 2 or 3 months or so.
-
Originally posted by Urchin
Boy do I see some heartache in your future...
I think the time will come when you get sick of handicapping yourself vis a vis the horde. Comes around for me every 2 or 3 months or so.
Nah :)
If you listen in long enough, you notice that guys like Honch, who never leaves his P40, seem to have the most fun as they could care less about the K/D and get their kicks out of doing more with less so to speak.
If I end up getting that frustrated, I can always hop back in a Spit V and turn and burn for a while
I cant bring myself to fly the late war uber rides anyway. It's the principle of the thing :)
Dan/Slack
-
I just figure, If I'm gunna wreck a plane, I may as well wreck one noone uses much. Save the La7s and Spits for the good pilots who know how to use 'em.
-
Originally posted by Gixer
Cancel your account? Cripes I thought you were hard coded into the thing. :D
...-Gixer
The game has lost a lot of fun for me lately, only thing that has been keeping me around has been my squadron.
ack-ack
-
you are both better men then I.. I'd love to fly the 190A, except I run into spit and el gay drivers who know their plane outruns, outclimbs, outturns, out accelerates, and outguns my plane... they don't so much need to "fight" per se as just wait, their plane will eventually win the "fight" for them.
So after a fruitless night in the 190A, I'll hop back in the dorun for a sortie or two and at least get kills on the spit drivers. El gays are still pretty much invincible though.
-
you are both better men then I.. I'd love to fly the 190A, except I run into spit and el gay drivers who know their plane outruns, outclimbs, outturns, out accelerates, and outguns my plane... they don't so much need to "fight" per se as just wait, their plane will eventually win the "fight" for them.
So after a fruitless night in the 190A, I'll hop back in the dorun for a sortie or two and at least get kills on the spit drivers. El gays are still pretty much invincible though.