Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Muckmaw1 on December 16, 2004, 12:06:19 PM
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I was listening to some stand-up the other night and it dawned on me.
The Jewish people could be the most presecuted people in the history of the world.
They were enslaved in Egypt, Tortured in Europe, Persecuted in Spain, Practically wiped out by the Nazis, Persecuted in the USSR, Attacked by every Arab country the day after Israel was formed....
I mean, the list goes on and on...
Now, can anyone tell me why the entire world has it in for this one small group of people for so long?
This is an honest question.
Where did it all start?
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Isn't the Black and native american people use to be oppressed in america not a long time ago???
For the jews, i don't know as i'm not a hater...
What i mean is that we should not rank peolpe most hatred ethnies or religions. By definition hate and racism are unacceptable, whatever who is the target.
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Not true, Ouaibe. *******s are exempt.
So Skuzzy finally cracked down on the Eagler-isms. Bravo.
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Stalin did more than persecute the Jews in the USSR. I don't know the exact numbers, but I think it was right around how many Hitler killed.
-SW
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Stalin persecuted anybody he saw as a threat. He was nice like that.
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He was an equal opportunity persecuter/murderer.
-SW
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Originally posted by Ouaibe
Isn't the Black and native american people use to be oppressed in america not a long time ago???
If measured in the time man has been on earth, yeah they were oppressed for about 30 seconds on a 1 hour time clock compared to the Jews....:rolleyes:
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The Jewes are not the men who will be blamed for nothing
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Good point, Rip.
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No one taking a guess yet.
The only thing I can come up with is maybe people are jealous of their close knit sense of community.
I know some Jews who make it a point to only do business with people from their synagogue.
This is not a bad trait at all. As a matter of fact, I think it's great, but maybe outsiders would take offense to this, or are simply jealous.
This is just a stab in the dark here.
I'm still looking for an answer.
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It's all about the fine print, really.
When old JHVH said the Jews were his "chosen people" he never really specified what he'd chosen them for...
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If measured in the time man has been on earth, yeah they were oppressed for about 30 seconds on a 1 hour time clock compared to the Jews....
Does it make it more acceptable Rip?
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Originally posted by Ouaibe
Does it make it more acceptable Rip?
Hey start your own thread!
;)
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Hey start your own thread!
Ooops right Muckmaw sorry for the hijack... :D
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Originally posted by Ripsnort
If measured in the time man has been on earth, yeah they were oppressed for about 30 seconds on a 1 hour time clock compared to the Jews....:rolleyes:
In a country that exist since 1 minute ...
All is relative Rip :D
@Muckmaw1 at your question : "why does everyone you hate the Jews ?"
I answer : I don't hate them.
But you need to make some precision because when writing "everyone" it IMO include yourself :)
So why do you hate the jews ?
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The amount of Anti-semitism surprises the hell out of me. Especially in europe.
I guess it's that Yahweh is the ultimate god that actually holds you accountable for what you do.
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No, Straffo.
You know what I mean.
Actually, maybe you don't being that English is not your native language.
Let me put it this way.
Why do the Jews seem to be the most persecuted people in history?
(Of course, no one would read a thread with that title)
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Well for once I think I translated correctly I was just acting as a "Poil à gratter"* as we say here :)
To answer (preety incompletly) to your question
Why do the Jews seem to be the most persecuted people in history?
Note : I'm excluding the industrial tragedy made by the German in this reasoning.
I don't think it can compare to the pogrom and diverse persecution the Jew had to endure during the ages to this.
I don't know exactly why they look to be more persecuted.
It's perhaps because their civilisation/religion survived during a long time when other just vanished and we don't even remember of them ?
Example the maya civilisation didn't survive and none care of them.
@lasersailor184 : you are speaking of actual of historic Europe ?
*itching powder.
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usury is a big part of it...
the bible, quran, and even good ole' aquinas didn't take kindly to interest and fees.
It's all about the benjamins baby
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Originally posted by Octavius
usury is a big part of it...
But in France the Jew where not autorised to be peasant or soldier... what else to do in the Middle Age for example ?
(I think it was the same for all european christian country)
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Why were they blocked from being a soldier in the first place?
You might be on to something with the Usuary theory.
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I think anti sematism is just a way of life in yourup.
lazs
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Originally posted by Muckmaw1
Why were they blocked from being a soldier in the first place?
You might be on to something with the Usuary theory.
They were fordib to be soldier because not being christian.
Usuary was explicitly forbiden to the christian by the Pope in a bill I don't remember.
Plus the jew killed Jesus Christ the son of god the deicide was established by chrysostom or chrisologe in the 5e century (I digging hard in my memory you lucky I love history :D)
But the persecution started really with the Crusade :
why going to Jerusalem to kill infidels when you can do it confortably at home ?
Even if it's some muslim at Jerusalem and jew at home who will really care as they are all infidels ?
In the case of France there was even a crusade in France to kill the cathares who were christian ...
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Originally posted by Ouaibe
Does it make it more acceptable Rip?
Of course not, but then again, changing the subject to point a finger back at one in a totally unrelated subject doesn't make your answer acceptable either.
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Originally posted by lazs2
I think anti sematism is just a way of life in yourup.
lazs
just like slavery was in the good ol'U.S of A
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Originally posted by Octavius
usury is a big part of it...
the bible, quran, and even good ole' aquinas didn't take kindly to interest and fees.
It's all about the benjamins baby
Actually, Oct is right. Historically speaking Jews were some of the best with mathematics, thus ended up as handling money, as bankers, etc. through out the ages. They profited nicely too, thus making them a target. Anyone who works hard and earns a good living is usually a victim of some sort of persecution.
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Originally posted by SLO
just like slavery was in the good ol'U.S of A
Hah, like slavery was limited to the USA. The US is merely a fart in the grand scheme of slavery. Nothing new, try again :)
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Straffo, are you saying that most europeans do like to hold criminals and the like accountable for what they do?
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I hate the Jews because of Barbara Streisand. Perhaps earlier generations prophisied her coming?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Straffo, are you saying that most europeans do like to hold criminals and the like accountable for what they do?
I'm not sure to understand. I just wanted to know if your were speaking of antisemitism post or before shoah.
Ripsnort your affirmation :
Originally posted by Ripsnort
Actually, Oct is right. Historically speaking Jews were some of the best with mathematics, thus ended up as handling money, as bankers, etc. through out the ages. They profited nicely too, thus making them a target. Anyone who works hard and earns a good living is usually a victim of some sort of persecution.
is completly false in fact it's the exact opposite :)
The mathematic tools in the middle age were created to solve banking problems but I won't digress further history of mathematic is my wife job not mine :D
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I'm talking about ideals.
Yahweh held you accountable for what you did and you got spanked.
How many european children are spanked each day?
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I think this is something of an oversimplification of a complex ideology, but it pretty much covers how true anti-semitism got started. Anything before the time of Jesus was merely one people at war with another, and the normal hatreds and alliances that develop from those. Such cannot be truly termed "anti-semitic."
Christianity is one of the best examples in history of a little religion that made it big in the world. At the death of Jesus (and the conversion of Paul), there were twelve apostles, the original disciples of Jesus who were imbued with the Holy Spirit to teach Christianity to the masses. At the beginning, each had equal status, and the major doctrine (developed by Paul) was salvation for those who believed in the saving grace of Jesus and who underwent Baptism., the ritual which cleansed the soul. Paul added the theological point that Christians were the "true Israel," the Israel of faith rather than the crude Israel of the flesh (the Jews).
The Christians felt that because they were preaching to non-Jews, they had to discredit the status of Jews by emphasizing their lack of faith and their fall from favor because they didn't accept the teachings of the Messiah, of Christ.
As in all new religions, Christianity had birth-pangs. The major assumption of the budding religion was that the Messiah had come and that the New Age was at hand. This idea could not last for very long before it started losing its immediacy. If the New Age was at hand, why wasn't anything new happening? Paul's answer was that something new was happening. The Christians just had to look inside themselves to see how much change there was.
This response couldn't last very long either; it encouraged people to provide personal answers to theological questions. There had to be official, concrete answers and rules to the questions emerging through the community. First, the leadership agreed that the only ones who could teach and describe the truths of the new religion were students of the apostles. Each apostle specified a special student to take over the teaching and explaining when he died. This student in turn taught other students, specifying one as the special student to continue the teaching. This line of students from the original twelve apostles through the generations was called the Apostolic Line. It successfully challenged the legitimacy of any other group as being the New Israel.
However, this legitimate New Israel now had to define itself; what did it really believe? What was the truth? The leading Christian thinkers from 80 CE until 420 CE spent most of their time writing defenses and arguments against heretical arguments; applying proof texts from Scripture to their theology, and concretizing the beliefs of the new religion. These writings were called Apologies, and the early Church fathers were called Apologists.
In their zeal to justify early Church doctrine, the Apologists inevitably vilified the Jews. In making Christianity the New Israel, they had to explain the sins of the Old Israel, the fallen Israel, the false Israel.
The first apologist to do this was a newly-converted Christian named Justin Martyr (who was later killed by the Romans). In 145 CE (ten years after the Bar Kochba Revolt) Justin Martyr wrote an apology in which he was having a dialogue with a Jew named Trypho. Using Bible proof texts, Justin Martyr claimed that the Jews were originally selected by God because they were such an unspiritual group; they needed added laws. He blasted the Jews for rejecting Jesus, for killing Jesus, for leading people away from salvation. He gloated over the destruction of the Temple as being just punishment for Jewish perfidy. Justin Martyr's writings became incorporated into early Christian thought, and were the origins of Christian anti-Semitism.
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Source: The American-Israeli Cooperative Eneterprise
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Muckmaw1
If you are truly interested try this book by Dennis Prager. It discusses this very issue in detail. I have read two of his books, although not this very one, and he is a very thoughtful, reasoned individual. Try it I am sure you will like it and it should answer your questions.
Sincerely,
BSB
Why the Jews? (http://www.dennisprager.com/whyTheJews.html)
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Like Oct, and Rip said who do most people hate the most?
The person with all the money?
or
The person with out the money?
Seems to me there are more W/O the money....hence more people to hate those people with the money!
Fact is Jews handle most of the financial markets that are the most lucrative, IE Diamonds, Gold, Banking, Insurance and so on!
Not all Jews are rich! and not all Jews are steriotypical Jews
Me Growing up next to the city of West Bloomfield in Michigan I knew and still know alot of Jews, some with money and some w/o
What i think is the people who hate /dislike Jews , dislike the Steriotypical Jew, Im talking the the snobby rich bastages with there pompous additudes and cheap tips ( i used to wait tables, they tend to tip very badly and want the world, not even order fromthe menu)
But then again its the Steriotypical Jew doing this.
I know and still have several Jewish friend back in Michigan and most you would never know were Jewish unless you said Merry X-mass to them......................... ..........
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Originally posted by straffo
Example the maya civilisation didn't survive and none care of them.
The Mayan civilization was indeed destroyed. Their bloodlines were incorporated into what is now modern Mexico, and to some extent, elements of their culture as well.
When it comes to persecution of the Jews, it has been the aim of certain men from the past to eradicate the actual bloodline, and steps were taken to this end with ruthless efficiency.
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Say a bad word about the american goverment = anti american.
Say a bad word about the Israeli goverment = anti semite.
:rofl
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I think anti sematism is just a way of life in yourup.
Very aleatory concept indeed, could you be more explicit?
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Originally posted by lazs2
I think anti sematism is just a way of life in yourup.
lazs
These don't look like Euros to me...
Throw the Jew Down the Well (http://inhonor.net/videos/uped/fl_video.php?f_num=92500)
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Originally posted by boxboy28
Fact is Jews handle most of the financial markets that are the most lucrative, IE Diamonds, Gold, Banking, Insurance and so on!
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I know and still have several Jewish friend back in Michigan and most you would never know were Jewish unless you said Merry X-mass to them......................... ..........
Point 1: The reason this took place was not a result of some sort of genetic pre-disposition to handling money, it was due to Jews being almost ubiquitously excluded from guilds during the renaissance. A natural, surprisingly lucrative response to a difficult situation.
Point 2: Being jewish isn't just about being cheap, and the 'good' jews aren't just those of us whom you can't pick out from a crowd. The way you say it, our entire cultural identity rests on giving ****ty tips and complaining about the weather while driving to brunch in our shiny Nazi-mobiles.