Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mechanic on December 18, 2004, 04:40:42 AM
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In my opinion, the only solution to the ridculous puffy ack problem is to enable friendly kills.
How many times have you been flying around an enemy CV, with 4 cons on your tail only to be disabled from the stupid puffy ack?
happened to me many times.
how many times in the real war would you find a single enemy being fired at with 88mm rounds when there are 4 friendlies within 2k of him? Its just bananas.
at the very least, HTC should enable friendly kills from the 5inch guns* and force a cease fire from the AI guns whenever a friendly is within 3k of the target.
i dont think this would detract from gameplay too much, and it would certainly help with the moaning.
your thoughts please comunity and HTC.
Batfink
*i realise that with friendly kills on, alot of stupid people may wish to knock down thier own planes. should you score a friendly kill in a manned gun possition, you will then be unable to gun for 24 hours. should make people think twice about playing space invaders in the 5 inch guns. It takes so little skill, i have been on the phone and still shot down 5 or 6 suicide bomber formations and a couple of fate teasing fighters.
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I disagree... anytime anyone ups from the CV it will equate to the entire CV force being completely defenseless.
Originally posted by mechanic
at the very least, HTC should enable friendly kills from the 5inch guns* and force a cease fire from the AI guns whenever a friendly is within 3k of the target.
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Originally posted by mechanic
Batfink
*It takes so little skill, i have been on the phone and still shot down 5 or 6 suicide bomber formations and a couple of fate teasing fighters.
This is why it will never be changed, actually.
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Originally posted by mechanic
How many times have you been flying around an enemy CV, with 4 cons on your tail only to be disabled from the stupid puffy ack?
happened to me many times.
Ok.. I can't resist the urge anymore..
To reply to this and a couple dozen other similar posts, I refer to a vaudevillian act, the credit for specific comedians I know not.
A man rushes into the doctor's office and says
"Doctor! Doctor! It hurts when I do this!!"
( What 'this' is is never really defined, nor does it matter )
To which the doctor replies...
..
All together now...
..
"Well, then, don't DO that!!"
Space Invaders.. or whatever you choose to call it, is simply another facet of the game. Sure, it requires minimal skill, but for those days when my brain is mush after dealing with corporate America and I just want to spend a little social time with some buds online.. can't beat it for a shot to the soul.. watching the big poofs as you home in and the satisfying virtual fireball of success. Blame HiTech for making the rush from watching explosions and flaming pyres so intense. Oh.. and we do get to score a tally too. Bonus!
Besides, if you want the puffy ack to go away, get some ordinance to the fleet and pop the hardened gun emplacements.
If you're just looking for enemy aircraft to mix it up with.. be patient.. they'll eventually crawl out from under the umbrella. If they're bringing the fleet in to cover an invasion, better either call in some reinforcements to take it out or prepare to find where the furball will move to.
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good points APDrone, but im talking about dogfighting 5 or 6k from the fleet
i just think its unrealistic to be able to shoot puffy ack at friendlies and only damage the baddies.
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at the very least, HTC should enable friendly kills from the 5inch guns* and force a cease fire from the AI guns whenever a friendly is within 3k of the target.
Great idea, then some dweeb could sit in the 5" and blow away his own side, then laugh while they whine. :rolleyes:
Talk about a way to create hate and discontent in the arena.
If you don't like the puffy ack, don't fly near the CVs. The 5" are the only decent defense the CVs have. Even with the 5" the CV is a mush target.
If there is something you don't like about the game, change your gameplay, adapt, improvise, overcome. :aok
You really will have more fun than whining on channel 200 and the BBS :)
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AI puffy ack should not be taken away, it just needs to be updated like the majority of the planeset - hopefully it will happen sooner rather than later.
I just hate the way there is no way of avoiding it if you are 3K+ anywhere remotely near an enemy base. As it was realistically - changing of height should really mess its aim up, maneuvering should mess its aim up - this will make it much less lethal to fighters and much more deadly to bombers.
Also i think the 3k puffy ack limit should be moved to about 6k - 8k so those that want to fight, can do, bombers and jabo's below that are easy meat to 5 inch gunners.
Just my opinion.
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oh i hate puffy ack!
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You know there once was a game where you could kill a friendly by dropping a bomb on them. Only thing was, if you killed 2 in a day, you were kicked off for a day.
Why can't this work for the puffy ack?
Killshooter won't work because the ack is needed to protect cvs from low level suicide bombers etc....
Buuuuut....
I agree with Batfink. If you are in a tight dogfight 5-6k away, scissoring with your opponent, obviously in very close proximity to them, then it is stupid that an ack shot should only kill you with no ill effect to them.
Bottom line is, when I'm in a furball, I have to watch my aim. Why doesn't someone on a ship?
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Great idea, then some dweeb could sit in the 5" and blow away his own side, then laugh while they whine. :rolleyes:
Talk about a way to create hate and discontent in the arena.
If you don't like the puffy ack, don't fly near the CVs. The 5" are the only decent defense the CVs have. Even with the 5" the CV is a mush target.
If there is something you don't like about the game, change your gameplay, adapt, improvise, overcome. :aok
You really will have more fun than whining on channel 200 and the BBS :)
Originally posted by Batfink
*i realise that with friendly kills on, alot of stupid people may wish to knock down thier own planes. should you score a friendly kill in a manned gun possition, you will then be unable to gun for 24 hours. should make people think twice about playing space invaders in the 5 inch guns. It takes so little skill, i have been on the phone and still shot down 5 or 6 suicide bomber formations and a couple of fate teasing fighters.
does make you wonder if people actually read your post before replying :)
Originally posted by Vudak
You know there once was a game where you could kill a friendly by dropping a bomb on them. Only thing was, if you killed 2 in a day, you were kicked off for a day.
Why can't this work for the puffy ack?
Killshooter won't work because the ack is needed to protect cvs from low level suicide bombers etc....
Buuuuut....
I agree with Batfink. If you are in a tight dogfight 5-6k away, scissoring with your opponent, obviously in very close proximity to them, then it is stupid that an ack shot should only kill you with no ill effect to them.
Bottom line is, when I'm in a furball, I have to watch my aim. Why doesn't someone on a ship?
well said.
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Don't make the fleets any weaker than they are or there will be even less naval play (hmmm, that sounds so introspective).
Still waiting for destroyers with 5-inch dual purpose batteries.
Never in the history of warfare have so many ships under way been sunk by four-engine bombers.
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does make you wonder if people actually read your post before replying
I wonder if people actually think before they start a thread :rolleyes:
Especially when it has a potential for being a candidate for whine of the week :lol
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Originally posted by Delirium
I disagree... anytime anyone ups from the CV it will equate to the entire CV force being completely defenseless.
Agreed, if the guns on the fleet were disabled for reasons mechanic mentioned than the fleet would be defenseless. Most of the cvs brought into battle and are put right off the coast of fields. Than there would be no chance of defending the cv from the attackers and they would sink the cv easily with no challenge because there will be a lot of people upping from the cv. Since mechanic wanted the cv guns disabled when there are allies within 3k, what would defend the cv if there were no friendlies in teh air. The cv would be defensless and sunk by the time anyone is able to take off.
Canaris
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Originally posted by Canaris
Agreed, if the guns on the fleet were disabled for reasons mechanic mentioned than the fleet would be defenseless. Most of the cvs brought into battle and are put right off the coast of fields. Than there would be no chance of defending the cv from the attackers and they would sink the cv easily with no challenge because there will be a lot of people upping from the cv. Since mechanic wanted the cv guns disabled when there are allies within 3k, what would defend the cv if there were no friendlies in teh air. The cv would be defensless and sunk by the time anyone is able to take off.
Canaris
True. But if the person in charge of the gun were kicked off the game (for even a bare ten minutes... Or even a relog if that's too harsh) after they'd already shot down two, or more, of their countrymen that particular day, then they'd learn to take care where they aim.
Would a lot of cv's be destroyed because their gunners were booted at first? Sure. That would probably last a week or so. Then the gunners would, to quote AKFokerFoder+: "change [their] gameplay, adapt, improvise, [and] overcome. "
And yes, I realize, that if you actually had to take care where you aim, cvs might be harder to defend... But, if you are escorting a goon or bombers or whatever, you have to make sure your guns hit the enemy and not your charge, or you're getting pinged up by your own guns.
Why is it different for ack? Why is it different (as far as I know) for gvs? How come they have it so good?
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The whole point is that some guy in a fighter is whining because he flew to close to carrier and got blown away by a 5" gun.
Lets see, he is close to the carrier, fighting the carriers air defense fighter/s. While he has the fighter occupied, his sides bombers have a free or at least easier run at the CV's.
His solution? Well, he has the RIGHT to fight the planes defending the CV. He has the right to keep the fighter defense occupied so his bombers can attack the CV. But the CV has no right to protect it's fighters with AAA fire if he is fighting them. Therefore if a AAA should happen not to be right on and hits it's own side fighter, the CV should now be made more defensless by losing it's fighter and/or the 5" gunner. The side with the CV who had spent a long time positioning it's CV should now lose the carrier because He has a right to dogfight without being shot by the CV.
We should all change the gameplay because he doesn't like 5" guns.
How arrogant can you get??? :rolleyes:
What a pathetic whine. :(
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
The whole point is that some guy in a fighter is whining because he flew to close to carrier and got blown away by a 5" gun.
Lets see, he is close to the carrier, fighting the carriers air defense fighter. While he has the fighter occupied, his sides bombers have a free or at least easier run at the CV's.
His solution? Well, he has the RIGHT to fight the planes defending the CV. But the CV has no right to protect it's fighters with AAA fire if he is fighting them. Therefore if a AAA should happen not to be right on and hits it's own side fighter, the CV should now be made more defensless by losing it's 5" gunner. The side with the CV who had spent a long time positioning it's CV should now lose the carrier because "He has a right to dogfight without being shot by the CV."
We should all change the gameplay because he doesn't like 5" guns.
How arrogant can you get??? :rolleyes:
What a pathetic whine. :(
Bottom line is if I'm 100 off a bad guys 6, and the gunner shoots in between the two of us (hitting neither of us directly), by nature of the explosion and shrapnel I am killed, and he gets to fly away unscathed.
And I'm not talking about directly over the cv... This has happened to many people from much farther away... You can reference this by checking the thread on this topic that Urchin started a while back... That thread got shut down. I'd really appreciate it if you would keep your comments constructive so that this one isn't as well.
I'm not saying go for Batfink's "only solution". It obviously isn't the only solution, and as you've pointed out, it isn't a really good one (no offense Batfink). What I am saying is: the current situation is also not a good solution.
The way I see it, I'd have a "right" to fight planes defending the cv, the planes defending would have a "right" to fight me back, and the cv gunner would have a "right" to shoot at me. But he should have to shoot at ME. Not me AND his friend (who ALWAYS, as of now, gets away scot free).
I do NOT believe the cv gunner should be allowed to fire a deadly, high explosive projectile, at a target that is literally 1-200 yards away from his friendly, without EVER inflicting damage on that friendly.
I do NOT believe that disabling him from shooting at two fighters without repercussions, will in ANY way disable him from shooting at the bombers, thus giving them "a free or at least easier run at the CV's."
I really don't see what's so arrogant about this. I'm not telling anyone they have to play my way, I'm asking that they (guns, gvs, etc.) be forced to fly by the same RULES (killshooter, or something along those lines) that fighters, and bomber gunners, are forced to fly by.
That's not arrogant, that's fair. Now, could you please propose a counter-argument that would work towards finding some middle ground?
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
The whole point is that some guy in a fighter is whining because he flew to close to carrier and got blown away by a 5" gun.
Lets see, he is close to the carrier, fighting the carriers air defense fighter/s. While he has the fighter occupied, his sides bombers have a free or at least easier run at the CV's.
His solution? Well, he has the RIGHT to fight the planes defending the CV. He has the right to keep the fighter defense occupied so his bombers can attack the CV. But the CV has no right to protect it's fighters with AAA fire if he is fighting them. Therefore if a AAA should happen not to be right on and hits it's own side fighter, the CV should now be made more defensless by losing it's fighter and/or the 5" gunner. The side with the CV who had spent a long time positioning it's CV should now lose the carrier because He has a right to dogfight without being shot by the CV.
We should all change the gameplay because he doesn't like 5" guns.
How arrogant can you get??? :rolleyes:
What a pathetic whine. :(
Well let's talk about what really happens.
1 CV arrives off coast
2 Defenders up
3 Terrific furball ensues
4 Every body is having fun
5 Some no-talent weenie climbs into 5 incher holds down trigger and shoots into furball
6. Buff ariives , sinks CV fun over
7 No-talent weenie lands a bunch of kills as ship slowly sinks into the waves
At least make em die ! And yes Killshooter should apply for them as well.
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When I am manning the 5" AA gun on the CV or the CA, I have
held my fire if there was a friendly A/C anywhere near the target
A/C. I also don't open fire at ranges greater than 2.5 K. And I
don't shoot into the middle of furballs for fear of hitting a friendly.
What I am hearing here is that my caution was unnessary? My
rounds won't hurt a friendly? Did not know that, but so what.
I am still going to do as I have been doing.
Mike
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Originally posted by Vudak
Bottom line is if I'm 100 off a bad guys 6, and the gunner shoots in between the two of us (hitting neither of us directly), by nature of the explosion and shrapnel I am killed, and he gets to fly away unscathed.
And I'm not talking about directly over the cv... This has happened to many people from much farther away... You can reference this by checking the thread on this topic that Urchin started a while back... That thread got shut down. I'd really appreciate it if you would keep your comments constructive so that this one isn't as well.
I'm not saying go for Batfink's "only solution". It obviously isn't the only solution, and as you've pointed out, it isn't a really good one (no offense Batfink). What I am saying is: the current situation is also not a good solution.
The way I see it, I'd have a "right" to fight planes defending the cv, the planes defending would have a "right" to fight me back, and the cv gunner would have a "right" to shoot at me. But he should have to shoot at ME. Not me AND his friend (who ALWAYS, as of now, gets away scot free).
I do NOT believe the cv gunner should be allowed to fire a deadly, high explosive projectile, at a target that is literally 1-200 yards away from his friendly, without EVER inflicting damage on that friendly.
I do NOT believe that disabling him from shooting at two fighters without repercussions, will in ANY way disable him from shooting at the bombers, thus giving them "a free or at least easier run at the CV's."
I really don't see what's so arrogant about this. I'm not telling anyone they have to play my way, I'm asking that they (guns, gvs, etc.) be forced to fly by the same RULES (killshooter, or something along those lines) that fighters, and bomber gunners, are forced to fly by.
That's not arrogant, that's fair. Now, could you please propose a counter-argument that would work towards finding some middle ground?
You guys are funny, AI Puffy ack kills friend or foe. Only manned guns only kill enemy not friends. And as stated before you would have newbies or some kill guys just to laugh. Been on guys 6 over my field and over my cv and puffy has killed me. and other guy gets credit. So you question is mute.
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Originally posted by Redd
Well let's talk about what really happens.
1 CV arrives off coast
2 Defenders up
3 Terrific furball ensues
4 Every body is having fun
5 Some no-talent weenie climbs into 5 incher holds down trigger and shoots into furball
6. Buff ariives , sinks CV fun over
7 No-talent weenie lands a bunch of kills as ship slowly sinks into the waves
what he really wants to say is I want to vulch CV planes without the chance of being killed. You can kill all ack and 5 " guns on cv. Of course this is harder but hell mommy i want to have no ack To make it easier to kill slow upping planes lol.......
At least make em die ! And yes Killshooter should apply for them as well.
lol making them die. who cares gunners can't swim? so from now on chutes for pilots? or Your mad because gunner gets his name in lights lol
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Originally posted by rod367th
what he really wants to say is I want to vulch CV planes without the chance of being killed. You can kill all ack and 5 " guns on cv. Of course this is harder but hell mommy i want to have no ack To make it easier to kill slow upping planes lol.......
lol making them die. who cares gunners can't swim? so from now on chutes for pilots? or Your mad because gunner gets his name in lights lol
1. Nope - I don't vulch , but I do like to furball.
2. Mad no , landing X kills in a ship gun is embarrassment enuff for them I guess ;) but if having their name in lights is what encourages them , then yes , they should die ;)
PS thx for the RAAF skins - very nice :) oops - that was Kev367th - thanks Kev :)
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The puffy ack is fine. Leave it alone.
When over an enemy base and I see it I admire the view. As normally it never touches me.
Last time it actually shot me down was about 3 months ago it got me twice in a two day period. Prior to that It hadnt gotten me in 6 months at least.
The only place I find it dangerous is over an Enemy CV. and then only when its manned.
Sooo I stay away from fighting over enemy CV's unless Im Fix'n to make a run on the CV itself.
You guys must be flak magnets
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That's not arrogant, that's fair. Now, could you please propose a counter-argument that would work towards finding some middle ground?
Middle ground?
The CV need to be an effective assault force. In the present scenarios it is already to soft a target to be a fearsome force.
You want to make it a softer target rather than make it a better team force for base capture. You think your personal preference for dog fighting should take precidence over team game play.
5" gunners are not dweebs, they are an effective means of protecting the fleet. Crusier gunners are not lamers, they are an important part of taking out fields, shore batteries, etc. It is a team play aspect that you do not seem to comprehend.
If you don't believe in team play then we will never find middle ground.
Anyways I'm done with this thread, post your reply, I am sure it will be the same old same old, I won't reply, although I probably will have a good chuckle. :)
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Well, at least the positions are clear..
AkFoder: 42 kills this month, 40 in a manned ack.
108 kills last month, 60 in a manned ack.
Can't imagine why he wouldn't want them changed.
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Originally posted by rod367th
You guys are funny, AI Puffy ack kills friend or foe. Only manned guns only kill enemy not friends. And as stated before you would have newbies or some kill guys just to laugh. Been on guys 6 over my field and over my cv and puffy has killed me. and other guy gets credit. So you question is mute.
I highly question if this is true. Are you sure an enemy cv wasn't around? Anyway, HiTech, if you could please clarify on this one.
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Originally posted by AKFokerFoder+
Middle ground?
The CV need to be an effective assault force. In the present scenarios it is already to soft a target to be a fearsome force.
You want to make it a softer target rather than make it a better team force for base capture. You think your personal preference for dog fighting should take precidence over team game play.
5" gunners are not dweebs, they are an effective means of protecting the fleet. Crusier gunners are not lamers, they are an important part of taking out fields, shore batteries, etc. It is a team play aspect that you do not seem to comprehend.
If you don't believe in team play then we will never find middle ground.
Anyways I'm done with this thread, post your reply, I am sure it will be the same old same old, I won't reply, although I probably will have a good chuckle. :)
I'm not against team play. I'm against being in a dogfight and having a manned ack shoot at both me and his friend while only I am hurt. (if Rod367th is correct and only manned ack only kills one side while AI kills both).
And Rod, coincidentally, if you are correct, that's great that AI ack kills both. Now we just need to have that apply to manned ack too.
Let me make this clear: I have no problem with people having fun in manned ack positions and providing cover. It is, as has been pointed out, an integral part of the team. However, I DO have a problem, with ack and gv being held to different, easier, yes, easier, standards then fighters are with regards to killshooter.
So, the "middle ground" is:
How can we make it so that gunners have to use the same discretion in aim that escort fighters must, without disabling a fleet's capability of defending itself?
There has to be a solution... Please either:
A) Help find it
B ) State your opinion nicely (as Drediock did)
C) Go chuckle - Urchin's already got your number.
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Well, at least the positions are clear..
Hate to do this, but this is a personal attack :(
I often travel to rural Alaska, where I have high latency satellite links to the internet. Like 750 ms pings, I can't fly, but I can man the ships guns or field ack. In one sortie I had 36 kills :)
This month, I have only gotten to fly 1 sortie, I have been in the bush almost the entire month. 1 sortie, 2 kills, no deaths.
Did Urchin mention that with the 43 fighter kills I had 1 death by another fighter? And 1 death by the 190 wing problem that HiTech fixed? Nope just bad mouthed me as ship gunner.
I play what I can, when I can.
Ack needs to be able to defend the ships in this game. Trust me that hitting your own planes would cause no end of hard feelings, and would greatly effect community in the gameplay.
We need to keep planes at the carrier from being vulched. The 5" guns work as they are.
If I be a dweeb so be it. Actually I consider myself to be more of a scumbag ;) But your mileage may vary. :)
So hit me with you best shot, rather than attack the problem, which is really wanting game play your way.
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Originally posted by mechanic
i just think its unrealistic to be able to shoot puffy ack at friendlies and only damage the baddies.
Been thinking hard on this one, Batfink.
Yes, it's unrealistic.. but, then, so are many other aspects of this game.
For instance.. :: putting asbestos suit on :: when you spawn a bomber, the defensive guns don't work. Why? This is rhetorical.. I've heard the stories of how B17s would land ouside cities and strafe them down.. Still.. if the plane exists.. the guns should work.
You can spawn an unlimited number of aircraft from any airfield that has a hanger intact.. Materializing from nowhere.
These are game play 'adjustments'.
Same goes for the ship guns.
I would think with the emphasis the fighter pilots place on ACM and SA, the 'truly enlightened' fighter jocks would simply put the presence of an enemy fleet on their SA checklist and make the conscious decision whether or not to go hunt in the ack fields for their prey.
I mean, some of the posts in this thread make it sound like a fleet sneaks up on the dogfight and the puffy ack suddenly appears and disrupts things.
If the thought of puffy ack being your demise causes you duress, avoid it.. simple enough to understand .. even for a "no-talent weenie" like myself.:rolleyes:
I reiterate my first reply.
"Well, then, don't DO that"
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AI: Can damage friendlies.
Manned 5" can not damage friendlis. Was changed that way early on at the request of most of the players.
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AKFoder, it isn't a "personal attack", it is simply putting your words in context.
As far as the chest-thumping over the "fighter" scores, way to go. However, I'm pretty sure just about anyone can go 42 and 1 in anything if they take 20-odd minutes to set up each kill.
People use the 5 inch guns / manned ack because it is simply to hard for them to get kills any other way. That seems to be a fact. Now, their rationale behind "it is to hard" may range from latency to just low skill levels, but the fact remains that the reason people use 5 inch / manned ack is that is is simply easier than trying to kill a plane using another plane.
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;)
AKFoder, it isn't a "personal attack", it is simply putting your words in context.
Yeh, right :rolleyes:
As far as the chest-thumping over the "fighter" scores, way to go. However, I'm pretty sure just about anyone can go 42 and 1 in anything if they take 20-odd minutes to set up each kill.
Well, you just blasted me as making more kills in ships guns as if being in ships guns make your comments irrelavent.
Yep, it is quite easy to bag 42 and 1 if you take your time to set up the kill. Kinda like the real fighter pilots did it. I suck as a pilot but I know how to play the game and win. I am a vulching, cherry picking, alt monkey, back stabbing scumbag. I've said that lots of times :rofl
Also, I have no honor, none what so ever :D
It's how I play the game, I couldn't care less how you play it.
I am quite good in the 5". I often can't get a fast enough internet connection to get online even in guns. So I practice off line. I attack the drones, practice strafing guns on base, practice landing 190's on carriers, practice landing on a CV from the bow rather than the stern, flying through hangars, immelmanns yo yo's etc.
One day I was bored, and I tried the 5" out off line, and found out how to shoot them. I started to learn how to lead with them, and now I can pop drone after drone. Then I started to shoot them on line. They are unbelievably deadly. :)
I still spend a lot of time practicing offline, darn are those guns mean :)
I am hoping someday to become so good in the 5" that I get accused of hacking. :aok
If you are near my CV, and I am in the 5", you just might get a tail full of buckshot
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Originally posted by APDrone
Been thinking hard on this one, Batfink.
Yes, it's unrealistic.. but, then, so are many other aspects of this game.
For instance.. :: putting asbestos suit on :: when you spawn a bomber, the defensive guns don't work. Why? This is rhetorical.. I've heard the stories of how B17s would land ouside cities and strafe them down.. Still.. if the plane exists.. the guns should work.
You can spawn an unlimited number of aircraft from any airfield that has a hanger intact.. Materializing from nowhere.
These are game play 'adjustments'.
Same goes for the ship guns.
I would think with the emphasis the fighter pilots place on ACM and SA, the 'truly enlightened' fighter jocks would simply put the presence of an enemy fleet on their SA checklist and make the conscious decision whether or not to go hunt in the ack fields for their prey.
I mean, some of the posts in this thread make it sound like a fleet sneaks up on the dogfight and the puffy ack suddenly appears and disrupts things.
If the thought of puffy ack being your demise causes you duress, avoid it.. simple enough to understand .. even for a "no-talent weenie" like myself.:rolleyes:
I reiterate my first reply.
"Well, then, don't DO that"
thank you for your mature response, glad not everyone sees this as a 'whine'.
Looking from your well voiced perspective i can see how my argument has many flaws. And with the knoledge from HT that AI flack does damage friendlies i feel better than when i started the thread.
My main feeling is that its hard enough to fight 3 or 4 guys without someone pumping 88mm shells into the fray also.
it is very possible, nae, easy to kill a fighter in the 5"ers from anywhere up to 6k.
Can i just make it very clear that this thread was not a whine, and was in no way prompted by a puffy ack death. i havnt been killed by puffy ack for at last a few weeks.
AKfoker: i didnt want to cause any flaming with this thread but it appears that you now believe me to be arrogant or selfish or something. Im am sorry if this is how i came accross, it was not my intention. the sole argument was that shooting a bad guy in the middle of a bunch of friendlies and not hurting your team mates is unrealistic.
that is all.
bat
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I'm always kind of amused by people who boast of their prowess in the 5 inch or manned ack, or even the Flakpansie for that matter, and think it should mean something to me.
You don't even have to hit people with the 5 inch to kill them... and I'm supposed to be impressed that you are "good" with them?
To rephrase what I've been saying all along, you (and other people like you) used the 5 inch / manned ack because you are more "effective" in those than you are in a fighter. That is fine, not everyone has the natural talent needed to be good in a fighter, nor the inclination to put the work that is needed in even if you do have some talent.
I'm just clarifying your position for you, in essence it is "I'm not good enough to get kills in a fighter, so I choose to use the 5 inch gun because it is much easier for me to be a 'success'.
There isn't anything wrong with that, I just like people who are up-front about what they say.
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I'm just clarifying your position for you, in essence it is "I'm not good enough to get kills in a fighter, so I choose to use the 5 inch gun because it is much easier for me to be a 'success'.
Love these personal attacks, yep I suck in a fighter that is why I use 5" guns. Being on a 800 ms ping satellite circuit, I should just fly in the arena, I would warp so much no one could shoot me :)
Yep I suck in a fighter, the word is out.
Tour 58
AKfoder 46 kills in a 190A8 1 death
Tour 57
AKfoder
101 kills in a 190A8, 9 deaths
6 kills in F6F, 2 deaths
5 kills in a Typhie, 0 deaths
5 kills in a P51D, 2 deaths
1 kill in LA7, 0 deaths
0 kills in a 190D9, 1 death
0 kills in a LA5, 1 death
117 kills, 15 deaths as a fighter. Only 7.8 to 1 :( (of course that score doesn't reflect ack and gvs kills of my fighter.
OH! NO! everyone now knows that I can't fly fighters, so I have to be a ship gunner dweeb! :(
Why is it that on this BBS, unless you fly low, slow, flaps and wheels down in a fighter, you are not a worthy player?????
Or are you just going to blast me "chest thumping fighter scores"
Which is it? I suck in a fighter and have to man 5" guns
Or that I am just chest thumping my score and have to man 5" guns???
Kinda need to make up your mind here :rofl
Could it just be that 5" guns are fun and a intregal part of CV defense during carrier assaults on a base??
Guess it is just guys like me who can't fly a fighter :(
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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No, you are absolutely right. Let me clarify that last post.
"I use the 5 inch gun because I can't defend the carrier effectively in a fighter".
That better?
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Change the proximity fuses to range/timers...........
Suicide bombers will still have to fly thru a flack wall but a flack gunner will not be able to "chase" ac in a furball.
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The personal attacks are absurd.
People with their Holeier then though attitudes against,"Furballers, GVers,Strat guys,Fighters, the so called "Timid" flyers and the largely imaginary "suicide"pilots etc etc etc.
You need to ask yourself just one question.
Are YOU having fun with whatever it is you prefer to do?
If the answer is "yes" then the hell with what anyone else thinks.
And no matter what it is you like to do
No players opinion is any more valid then anyone elses reguardless how some seem to think otherwise
IF you like Running around in a GV then do it.
IF you prefer furballing then do that.
If you want to capture bases, pork feilds,vulch and otherwise make life miserable for the opposing side. Go for it
The only things I personally object to is the billion man horde and Dive bombing heavies, And of those I mean the ones that come in at a 45 degree+ angle
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"I use the 5 inch gun because I can't defend the carrier effectively in a fighter".
That better?
Absolutely! :D
Isn't it always nice when you find some point of agreement? :aok
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Originally posted by Halo
...
Never in the history of warfare have so many ships under way been sunk by four-engine bombers...
Here's an idea to fix that and the puffy ack:
Make the game as realistic as possible.
No, wait. That will make it less "fun."
[voice=EmilyLitella] Never-mind. [/voice]
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Originally posted by Vudak
I highly question if this is true. Are you sure an enemy cv wasn't around? Anyway, HiTech, if you could please clarify on this one.
yes its true vudak I am one of the few who flim every sortie. So i never have to guess how or what happen...........
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Originally posted by rod367th
yes its true vudak I am one of the few who flim every sortie. So i never have to guess how or what happen...........
Rgr Rod, and thanks HiTech for the definite clear up.
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Hitech
As I was not part of this game when ack was changed I do have a question.
Was it so that it could damage friendlies or was it so that it had kill shooter enabled?
I dont mind friendly fire beeing disabled on it. But when it is it would be a good thing to have kill shooter on. With kill shooter on one thinks twice about "spray and pray".
Removing spray and pray from 5'', imho, is a god thing.
Having 5'' do friendly fire damage when planes dont just doesnt make sence, so the first change was in line with the MA.
Would it be very hard for you guys to enable the kill shooter on the 5'' gun?
Tex
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Hitech
As I was not part of this game when ack was changed I do have a question.
Was it so that it could damage friendlies or was it so that it had kill shooter enabled?
I dont mind friendly fire beeing disabled on it. But when it is it would be a good thing to have kill shooter on. With kill shooter on one thinks twice about "spray and pray".
Removing spray and pray from 5'', imho, is a god thing.
Having 5'' do friendly fire damage when planes dont just doesnt make sence, so the first change was in line with the MA.
Would it be very hard for you guys to enable the kill shooter on the 5'' gun?
Tex
See the problem with that though is that if the guy manning the 5" got killshot, the fleet would be without that 5" gun to defend itself....... Actually, that sounds like a deterent :)
You know that many 5" would be killshot for awhile until people figured out what was happening. However I think after a few weeks that would settle down a bit.
I'd like to do a test in the H2H arena to see what the 5" can hit for sure. Mainly, I'd like to know if it can be swiveled enough to hit a plane that is taking off from its own carrier. If it can, a solution would be to ensure that it can't swivel that much.... But then you run into a new problem: How to defend against low flying buffs?
Tricky subject.
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Maybe a kill shooter that just kills the guy maning the 5'' and doesnt destroy the unit it self?
It would at least remove the "sprayin stat chasers" from the guns.
Tex.
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Originally posted by TexMurphy
Maybe a kill shooter that just kills the guy maning the 5'' and doesnt destroy the unit it self?
It would at least remove the "sprayin stat chasers" from the guns.
Tex.
Perhaps with a time-limit before you can hop back on it, and that would be great. Otherwise, *boom!* = tower/ run back to gun. Boom! = tower, run back to gun, etc.
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Sorry if all of this has been said. Didn't read the whole thread. Here's my take on the subject of 'puffy ack'.
IMHO the 'puffy ack' has it's place.
I do believe the range (and acuracy) of the AI ack should be 'lessened'. To be hit by a CV (or field ack) so far off you have to zoom to even find it is silly to me.
If I'm within con range I can see it is needed for defense. I think 5k should about max range for guns effectiveness. Both AI and manned. This would NOT reduce a CV's capability for defense.
I don't think ships should be able to come within about 8k of the shore anywhere. Those who have tried upping a field to defend with a CV parked on the beach know what I mean.
The 'unfair' part to me is this:
1) A gunner cannot "die". He loses nothing from sitting in the gun with the trigger down until he runs out of ammo or the CV ship sinks.
2) He can hit with great acuracy at 6k+ it seems. I don't actually know how far but it feels an absurd distance.
3) The AI ack appears to be able to track, shoot and kill through mountains. Getting killed 6k away from a CV / Field on the other side of a mountain is just silly.
4) It can ruin a good furball right offshore if the CV is parked within 6k of the beach.
5) Gunners (ack) have no icon. They can see us from 6k but we cannot identify them from 2-3k.
I don't think KS or PNG would work for ack. I do believe that 5k range, etc... would. Then if you get killed fighting within the 5k umbrella it's your own fault.
Just my $0.02 ;)
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And don't the "REAL" battle groups have something bigger than 20mm on the screening ships? And don't the "REAL" 5 incher shoot farther than 3K. And should not there be more spawn points for CV's so they can reup as fast as a swarm of fighters after a whole squadron get's dusted? And shouldn't rudder pedals and Track IR not be used if everybody doesn't have them. And shouldn't a fighter pilot stay dead for, oh, say ten minutes or so? That way they would be more careful about dying and sucide attacks would pretty much cease. And I want everything to my advantage and I want to play the GAME my way. And I want to be able to select the flying PT boat. AND, AND....I run outa stuff...Oh, Yeah, I want lead computing sights on the field ack....':aok
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i think it get particularly ridiculous when a 5" gunner uses 'land mode' to auto target a field with AA shells fom anything up to 17k!
i have seen friendlies, and myself, get vulched off the runway when the attacking CV group is 10k away.
its just kinda dumb.
oh, and Lye-El, thanks for adding yet another mature reply to this thread.
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Originally posted by mechanic
i think it get particularly ridiculous when a 5" gunner uses 'land mode' to auto target a field with AA shells from anything up to 17k!
i have seen friendlies, and myself, get vulched off the runway when the attacking CV group is 10k away.
I was unaware of this. If this is correct it needs to be addressed in the worst way.
Like I said just making guns effective to 5k and keeping ships 8k from shore would fix this problem.
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get in a 5" gun. next you press 'W' to engage land mode. next you click on the map where you want the shells to land. the turret then auto calcs the range and bearing for you and padlocks it on target. finally you hold the fire button down untill your 4000 rounds are expleted and you can land your 25 'kills' and start again. The max range for 5" AA is 17.5K.
i understand this is reasonable for 8" heavies, but for something so proximity sensitive as the 5" AA, its just bloody ridiculous.
you dont even have to hit things, if a shell burst within 100-150 yrds of an enemy plane, it goes Boom no matter what.
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In reality the CV's ack protection was like a wall. Ask all the Kamikaze pilots who never made it.
The 5" were radar controlled, they had ranging and well trained crews. If we were to model the 5" correctly we should have lead and range computing gunsights (which I am against)
We should also have 40mm guns with timed fuses. But according to HiTech these are hard to model.
And we should have 5" dual purpose guns on the screening destroyers. And 5" guns can shell fields, quite well, in real life, why can't they do it in AH2?
Real CV ack would be much like the lazer guided ack we had in AH1. It really screwed gameplay.
In real WW2 combat, if a plane were attacking the carrier, the gunners whould shoot even if there were a friendly fighter on it's six. Better to lose 1 man in a plane than in 1000 men in a ship.
But in this game, having the ability to shoot down your own planes would cause all kinds of bad blood. I'd just like to hear the whines from the pilot who is on the six of a bogey and a 5" gun from your own side takes him out. I'll just point him to this thread and where the idea came from.
So now, lets get back to the personal attacks on me. Can't wait to see what I'm called for daring not to agree . :rofl :rofl
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correct me if i am wrong but i (as the thread author) did not attack you in any way.
again, correct me if i am wrong but you did attack me
originaly posted by AKfokerfoder+
The whole point is that some guy in a fighter is whining because he flew to close to carrier and got blown away by a 5" gun.
Lets see, he is close to the carrier, fighting the carriers air defense fighter/s. While he has the fighter occupied, his sides bombers have a free or at least easier run at the CV's.
His solution? Well, he has the RIGHT to fight the planes defending the CV. He has the right to keep the fighter defense occupied so his bombers can attack the CV. But the CV has no right to protect it's fighters with AAA fire if he is fighting them. Therefore if a AAA should happen not to be right on and hits it's own side fighter, the CV should now be made more defensless by losing it's fighter and/or the 5" gunner. The side with the CV who had spent a long time positioning it's CV should now lose the carrier because He has a right to dogfight without being shot by the CV.
We should all change the gameplay because he doesn't like 5" guns.
How arrogant can you get???
What a pathetic whine.
end quote
it was never intended as an arrogant, pathetic whine. It is quite obvious from the mixed replies that it is a topic worthy of discusion.
but hey, dont let me ruin your ego trip mate :aok
PS: that was my first personal attack on you, now you have the right to STFU and keep your selfrighteous BS to yourself, and maybe, just maybe, post something constructive.
thanks
PPS: this bit is probably the most nonsensical thing I've heard this month.
"Therefore if a AAA should happen not to be right on and hits it's own side fighter, the CV should now be made more defensless by losing it's fighter"
what is to say that a fighter defending some bombers should have killshooter turned off incase he inadvertantly hits his country men, and therefore leaves the Buffs "more defencless by losing its fighter"?
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Originally posted by DipStick
Like I said just making guns effective to 5k and keeping ships 8k from shore would fix this problem.
The only problem that I can see with this is:
Will the 5k only address range in the horizontal? Because if you're talking 5k vertical too then the CV is in trouble from higher bombers (it's hard to hit one to be sure from up high, but a Stuka could drop its bomb at 5.5 or 6k with a reasonable chance of success).
And AKFokerFoder+, I'm not "attacking" you. Hope you didn't get that impression. I can't speak for others on this topic though. I will say I agree with BatfinkV as to who started it though.... <--- Now THAT just sounds middleschoolish eh? :)
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PS: that was my first personal attack on you, now you have the right to STFU and keep your selfrighteous BS to yourself, and maybe, just maybe, post something constructive
Nice personal attack :)
Some poorly disquised profanity, that would normally only get you a 3.5 but the end part where you dismissed anything I have posted was a nice touch :)
Score 4.5
QUOTE]PPS: this bit is probably the most nonsensical thing I've heard this month.[/QUOTE]
I'll give you a 5.5 for this, but it still needs more self righteous indignation and venom, but keep up the good work :aok
A good effort, so 5.5
Total Score is......
6.5 (I'm a generous type of scumbag) :D
AKFokerFoder, goes to microwave, makes another bag of popcorn to munch on, and waits eagerly :)
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Batfink do us all a favor and don't even reply to that. There are some good opinions being expressed in this thread and it would be a shame to have it get shut down.
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Ok time to close this , not the topic but the current flaming.