Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: eskimo2 on December 18, 2004, 11:02:56 AM
-
Fundamentally the big difference between the CT and the MA is the limited/historical match plane sets. There are a few other smaller differences by design such as maps and settings. As a byproduct, the CT usually has much smaller numbers, smaller furballs, and more one on ones, one on twos, etc. Many also argue that the atmosphere is (or used to be) more civil and that players display higher etiquette. Some claim that the average skill level in the CT is also higher than the MA.
The only thing that is for sure is that opinions about the CT vary… greatly.
Most of us have an idea of what would make the CT ideal. Many of us can find several players with whom we agree with on a few things and others whom we disagree with.
I have been playing this game since it opened in beta about six years ago; before AH I played Warbirds for a few years. In my years of flight simming, there has been one trend that stands out nearly every time I play. Most of the fighting gravitates to the closest enemy bases. Suppose that there are 10 frontline bases. Nine are between 20 and 30 miles from the nearest enemy base. The 10th one is only 15 miles from the nearest enemy base. Most of the fighting will occur at the closer base until the fighter hangers drop or one base becomes so heavily capped and vulched that most players find little point in upping. Being mobile fields, CVs also draw a big fight when they near an enemy base.
What does this tell us (or suggest) about the nature of online flight simmers: They prefer action to “shuttling” their planes to the fight. Let’s face it; flying to an enemy base is boring. Personally, I’m usually climbing on auto-pilot during this time. Simultaneously I’m surfing, talking to my wife or kids, watching TV, taking a wiz, or being amused by the text buffer while flying to an enemy base. I have the most fun when CVs are involved or bases are very close and promote non-stop action. IMHO, when a base gets captured on Malta, the best and most intense fighting occurs. From the second you spawn to the second you die, the fighting and action on Malta is non stop. CVs often produce the same intensity. I pretty much never quit out of boredom when these situations arise. This is the one situation where I’ll stay up to 2:00 A.M. and not even feel tired. This is what I seek above all else; not a moment of boredom. I know that this is just my opinion, but if you watch the maps where bases are close, or CVs are involved, you will see that many others also seek close fighting.
What’s the point of this thread?
I would like to see a new map with very close bases. I’ve been thinking about building such a map for many years now, but just have not done it. “I’m not even sure that HTC would approve what I have in mind. Here is what I’ve envisioned for base distances, as an intro to this concept. The following numbers represent the distance between bases in a string, letters are base names: A 15 B 12 C 9 D 6 E 6 F 9 G 12 H 15 I 12 J 9 K 6 (and so on).
Lately, when I’ve logged on to the CT, I’ve just stared at the map for a few minutes. I just can’t bring myself to fly 25 or more miles to find a fight. I’ll usually switch sides to look at the fight from the other side; and I just can’t bring myself to climb to 10K to intercept a con who is still 5K+ above me.
For the past three weeks or so I’ve been flying in the MA and I’ve found a lot of action per hour. Even though great one on ones are rare in the MA, and I’m shooting at US and Brit planes in my hog, I’ve been having a lot of fun.
I don’t know why HTC insists on 25 mile separation between bases on MA maps. I’m sure that they have thought it out and have valid reasons, but personally I think it is their only big mistake. Many players would prefer closer furball supporting bases. I don’t think that they would try a close base map in the MA, but it might fly in the CT. It would also draw MA furballers who are not dedicated to only one plane type.
This thread is a plea.
Can someone make a close base map?
Would the CT CMs run it?
Would the CTers fly it?
eskimo
-
Originally posted by eskimo2
Can someone make a close base map?
Would the CT CMs run it?
Would the CTers fly it?
I can't make a close base map. I can't make any map.
But I would run it.
And I would fly it.
- oldman (who thinks this is a great idea) (and who is also scratching his head that he agrees with Eskimo)
-
Mircale at Dunkirk map
Here is a map I was working on were bases are close and it's based on a historical battle...
(http://www.geocities.com/s0da72/images/map.jpg)
-
festerma map is a close base map
the one that is in there now has some close bases but it also has bugs
can't they take a map like festerma, only alot a few of the closer bases to the two active teams, ie rooks & knights and make all the other bases bishops and at those bishop bases disable all planes and gvs?
with a crowd being 10 ppl (5 on a side) in CT lately, they could really get away with 3 bases per side in a 40 mile map ...
-
Putting the fields that close (Soda's map) would turn game play into "launch, WEP on, HO (flip a coin to see who wins) & repeat" for the vast majority of players.
Anyone trying to fly above 3k AGL will be a puffy ack magnet for up to 3 fields.
If you thought game play and attitudes in the CT this past summer was bad, give this a try and watch the results.
asw
-
You're right Eskimo. Smaller maps are definately needed in the CT.
That being said, someone has to make them. It takes a lot of work to make a 'bug free' map.
Question is, what are people looking for in the CT? Is it gameplay? Dogfights? Historical settings?
How can we round out the setups so that it enhances HTC offerings to players?
-
Originally posted by Mister Fork
You're right Eskimo. Smaller maps are definately needed in the CT.
That being said, someone has to make them. It takes a lot of work to make a 'bug free' map.
Question is, what are people looking for in the CT? Is it gameplay? Dogfights? Historical settings?
How can we round out the setups so that it enhances HTC offerings to players?
People come here for all of those reasons, and others. A lot of things have been tried; close proximity draws a crowd while it lasts.
eskimo
-
Originally posted by detch01
Putting the fields that close (Soda's map) would turn game play into "launch, WEP on, HO (flip a coin to see who wins) & repeat" for the vast majority of players.
Anyone trying to fly above 3k AGL will be a puffy ack magnet for up to 3 fields.
If you thought game play and attitudes in the CT this past summer was bad, give this a try and watch the results.
asw
I have to agree with ASW on this one. I mean if flight time is such a pain... then why don't we just set up two bases, 15 miles apart, no gv's, no ack, make the terrian all level, and put icon range at 15 miles so we can see when the other side ups. I mean if you going to do that, why not take all the thought process out of it.
Maybe I am one of those virtual pilots that likes the immersion of the game to be a part of the theater. That was the draw for me to the CT.
I was going to try to work on Bug's Italy map, but I pretty much know that the biggest complaint will be flight times, so why even go through the hassle.
I did bring up the option of map makers for the CT but it was shot down as fast as I put the post up. Suggestion (http://www.flyaceshigh.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132607&highlight=suggestion)
-
Originally posted by o0Stream140o
I have to agree with ASW on this one. I mean if flight time is such a pain... then why don't we just set up two bases, 15 miles apart, no gv's, no ack, make the terrian all level, and put icon range at 15 miles so we can see when the other side ups. I mean if you going to do that, why not take all the thought process out of it.
Maybe I am one of those virtual pilots that likes the immersion of the game to be a part of the theater. That was the draw for me to the CT.
I was going to try to work on Bug's Italy map, but I pretty much know that the biggest complaint will be flight times, so why even go through the hassle.
I did bring up the option of map makers for the CT but it was shot down as fast as I put the post up. Suggestion (http://www.flyaceshigh.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=132607&highlight=suggestion)
Suppose that bases are less than 10 miles apart. If you don't want to up from a base that is next to a furball or under attack, your next base is only 10 miles away. Far enough for you to climb to safety, or fly medium alt. to the fight in less than 5 minutes. Those who want to take the time to fly to the fight can, those who want to just dive in can.
eskimo
-
Originally posted by eskimo2
Suppose that bases are less than 10 miles apart.
eskimo
Fields at 10 miles apart means your fights are restricted to under 3k alt or you'll be fighting in puffy ack. If you like that sort of thing go for it.
Advantages: you'll never be more than 2 minutes from gear in the wells to the merge in a fight.
Disadvantages:
- you'll be fighting under 3k all the time or fighting in puffy ack;
- the fights will mostly consist of 2 or more people screaming towards each other with WEP on for a HO merge somewhere in the middle. Survivors will then be faced with first problem if they go vertical or another round of jousting if they stay level.
Rinse and Repeat. Sure sounds like fun to me :rolleyes:
asw
-
Originally posted by eskimo2
Suppose that bases are less than 10 miles apart. If you don't want to up from a base that is next to a furball or under attack, your next base is only 10 miles away. Far enough for you to climb to safety, or fly medium alt. to the fight in less than 5 minutes. Those who want to take the time to fly to the fight can, those who want to just dive in can.
eskimo
I just took the P-40E up to alt (a working alt). To get alt and speed it took me almost 35 miles. 50% Fuel, Rate of Climb of 2 (ROC 2.0) with full on the throttle, max Manifold pressure was 45. I climbed to 18K, my speed was 225. I am not going into a fight without alt and speed.. that's the way I fly... I don't fight on the deck. If I fly any of the Army birds on the deck... I might as well not even fly anymore... it doesn't work (at least for me).
-
Originally posted by o0Stream140o
I just took the P-40E up to alt (a working alt). To get alt and speed it took me almost 35 miles. 50% Fuel, Rate of Climb of 2 (ROC 2.0) with full on the throttle, max Manifold pressure was 45. I climbed to 18K, my speed was 225. I am not going into a fight without alt and speed.. that's the way I fly... I don't fight on the deck. If I fly any of the Army birds on the deck... I might as well not even fly anymore... it doesn't work (at least for me).
And on such a map you could simply take off from further back.
-
We are not normal CT players but when we do we attempt to use the map to our advantage. By taking into account rate of climb and distance to target we find a suitable base to launch from. The plane we chose to fly and the mission we wish to carry out, jabo, bomber, or fighter sweep, are all factors that contribute to our overall strategy. So positioning of bases really is just a part of the overall picture.
Well just my 2 cents
Oh and btw I find that the pilots who do fly the CT are better skilled and have a higher level of respect for other players, the arena and the game
-
Originally posted by soda72
Mircale at Dunkirk map
Nice. Probably the Normandy 1944 period would also work for this.
When you think about it, FinRus is pretty close.
Ten miles apart may be too close, as asw notes. Eskimo's notion of having closer bases, though, is a good one, I think. Remember what a pain it was on the Burma map? And how far apart are the Channel bases in BoB? They could stand to be a bit closer than that.
- oldman
-
better yet, turn on kill shooter and have it as it was in RL
maps need to be smaller - period
what sense does it make to use maps created for MA size crowds when maybe CT gets up to 20 on a good night
-
One thing large maps offer is choice for the setups. Something that I have almost never seen taken advantage of. Take the france terrain I built for the CT - I built in options for BoB, pre D-Day, post D-Day, BoF, the low countries, etc. I saw it set up for a specific area only once. I'd much rather have a few large maps on my HDD than a boatload of small ones. I've got other things I could use the space for rather than storing a bunch of seldom used terrains.
Just my $0.02
asw
-
Originally posted by Karnak
And on such a map you could simply take off from further back.
Exactly, those that want the alt just take off from a rear field , those that don't take off from a close field
Couldn't be simpler really.
-
Originally posted by Eagler
festerma map is a close base map
the one that is in there now has some close bases but it also has bugs
This just bothers me to no end. We have been actively correcting bugs in the terrains for the last several weeks, as they get posted. If you know of bugs in a terrain, then post them.
Now, the issue with putting fields so close together has simply to do with the number of objects in view. How many of you complain about poor frame rates on maps like festerma?
This is one reason (major reason) why the frame rates are so poor. Fields being close together cause more objects to be drawn. Add a furball, and all of a sudden your frame rates drop through the floor.
You can make the terrain 128 miles and still have issues, if you put too many objects close together.
You can counter the distance by reducing the visibility in the arena. The default is 17 miles (now you know why we use 25 mile field distances, as default). You want fields 10 miles apart, then turn down the visibility to 8 miles.
-
skuzzy we have notice considerable bugs in the tunisia map where should we post these bugs?
-
Originally posted by storch
skuzzy we have notice considerable bugs in the tunisia map where should we post these bugs?
I'm not Skuzzy but I know the answer :D
post bugs or unknown glitches here:
AH2 Bug Reports (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=195)
and start your thread subject with for example
FESTERMAP BUG - YADDA YADDA
-
What was the last Pac map we had? Some of those small island bases were REALLY close. There was one island with 2 bases, and literally when you took off you could see the other guy taking off from the neighbor field. The towns were so close together, if you made one wrong turn in a GV you could attack your own town and not the other one by mistake. Only one hill between them. Was actually kinda fun, although I have to say it sure didnt allow P40s to get much in the way of alt.
-
Storch, TC is right. Post terrain bugs in the Bugs forums.
When you do, please state the name of the terrain, any field numbers where the issue is and a brief description of the issue.
Subject referencing a terrain issue is helpful for me to weed them out from the other reports too. Thanks.
-
sure will skuzzy I forgot to do it I'll do it now