Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: BlauK on December 20, 2004, 12:08:59 PM
-
... and it works pretty nicely in AH2 :)
It does not lose the direction like sometimes earlier without the expansion. Turning head back fron returns nicely to front view.
Initially the roll was not turned on, but it also works and looks pretty nice too while the plane is banked slightly, but the horizon is still level on the screen :)
When the roll is enabled, the viewpoint gets lost sometimes though :(
IMO there is one problem in how Vector expansion works in AH2... moving sideways and forwards/backwards should be the PRIMARY factor for positioning the viewpoint (like it is in real.. body moves and head moves with it). Therefore pitch and yaw should always happen as subordinate to XYZ movements!!!!
At the moment pitch and yaw happen first and the XYZ from that position :(
You can see the problem while trying to lean left and yaw the head left (like looking over your left shoulder). To make it work in AH you actually have to lean to the opposite direction (right) ... and that does not feel natural at all.
HTC... Could you fix this? Make XYZ as primary factor for the head position and yaw/pitch/roll as subordinate factor ????
I hope I was able to describe the problem with my 2nd only language :)
-
I tried to analyze the behaviour a bit further...
I presume that the XYZ movements are supposed to present the movements of pilot's upper body in left/right, up/down and forwards/backwards directions.... and that seems to work perfectly
Also the roll works perfectly with XYZ since its pivot point moves along with the XYZ movements (just like one's neck moves along with the shoulders)
The problem, though, is that the pivot point of YAW and PITCH does not seem to move along with XYZ movements..... it is like if the eyes only popped out of sockets and moved sideways and then rotate in a large arc when the head turns around :\
What I wish, at least as an option, is that YAW and PITCH pivot point would move with XYZ just like the ROLL pivot point does... please :)
-
Nice analysis - makes it even harder for me to wait trying it out myself... ;)
Just got notice today that mine got shipped. 3-6 business days - hope it arrives before holidays!
-
Lol, what a tactical advantage. Pop your eyeballs out of your head and staple em to the canopy.
Man, that is an interesting way of putting things anyway lol, I'm thinking about buying an old TrackIR thing from a friend.
-
Isn't the vector expansion only compatible with the TIR 3?
-
It is compatible with TIR3 and TIR3pro.
-
Did you find there to be any frame rate hit - or a visual effect that was like stuttering even though frame rates themselves stayed up - from the TIR3 VE (or actually, the new version of the software regardless of whether you have VE or not?)
-
Blauk,
My trackIR 3 pro with Vector comes to the door in a few hours!!!!!!!!
Could you email me your profile for it so I can have a baseline to work with....
guttboy@aol.nospam.com
just delete the nospam so its the name guttboy then @aol.com
thanks
-
I have not noticed any significant frame rate drops in game, but I have not tried it online yet.
I did get horrible frame rate drops though, when I alt+tab:ed to desktop and then back to game. There is no other way than to quit and restart the game. That is also tested only in offline so far.
I did not change the Flight.xml profile too much.. but a little anyways. Here is a link to my profile ---> Flight.xml (http://www.virtualpilots.fi/LLv34/Flight.xml)
(right-click and save)
-
Thanks so much....should be getting here in a couple of hours now!
-
Did you guys set your AH-views to Standart?
greets
-
Pre-set AH views dont affect the TIR views... as far as I know...
-
Thx for the quick reply BlauK :), but they did at least with my old TIR2 and Software ver. 3.12.
-
I have TIR3, but also with the old software I did not get any benefit from my own saved views.. at least not in mouse look, ahh.... but maybe there was a possibility of using snap views with TIR as well, right? (You mean those?)
Vector expansion seems to be different from that with its 6 DOF. It does not need any saved positions since all movement is free.
-
WHOOPEEE!
Mine got here yesterday late afternoon! So far all I did was put the cap on and move the mouse with the TIR3.....today I will set it up in the game...hopefully its not too complex!
Regards....
Will post my trial and error!
-
I'll post my AAR on the 25th :) It's "here" but I "don't know about it."
-
Originally posted by Octavius
I'll post my AAR on the 25th :) It's "here" but I "don't know about it."
Lol!! hang in there bud,2 more days to go..:)
-
Ok....
TRACKIR WITH VECTOR ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
OMG! THIS IS THE BEST THING SINCE....I DUNNO.....ITS THE BEST!!!!!!!!!!!!
I have only had a couple of flights with it approx 30 min or so but the ease of use and setup was amazing. Took a few min to get used to where I wanted the center at but after that VOILA!!!!!!!!!
Its funny cuz I still move the hat switch alot and remember I dont have to. What is nice though, is that you can move the hat switch to say your 6 look and then move around from there with the vector (I am sure I will stop using this as I get used to it but for now it ROCKS).
It makes landing on carriers a BREEZE!!!!!
I made a film of it but for some reason the "looking around" does not show up in the film viewer...I am a newbie at that too.
Anyhow I HIGHLY RECOMMEND THIS TO ANYONE!!!!!!!!!
Best Wishes!:aok
-
Guttboy,I just realized you're in New Mexico.
soon as you're done playing with it,ship it over to me for a trail run :D
btw,where in New Mexico ?
-
nsty1,
I am stationed here in Albuquerque...where are you at????
Mike
-
Had my track ir for a week now with the expansion pack. It took a little getting used to and I cant seem to get too much up and down movement IE looking over cowl for deflection shot. But all in all WOW!!!! talk about feeling like your really flying. I got dizzy the first hour I used it. I would get very disorintated in a fight and augered more than once or flew into ground on a gentle decent while looking at something. After a week of using it. It has become very natural. After a while I am sure it will turn me into a more efficent killer.
-
Originally posted by guttboy
nsty1,
I am stationed here in Albuquerque...where are you at????
Mike
Look south,a little more,there...little village,Los Lunas
we hunt our dinner down here :D
-
WOW we are close!!!!!
Mike
-
Originally posted by guttboy
WOW we are close!!!!!
Mike
Drop me a line here sir jmalv@qwest.net ,i'm really curious to know about Track ir.
I know of 2 other AH players in Albuquerque
-
Nsty1,
Email me at guttboy@aol.com.....for some reason I could not email ya...then we can chat on the phone about it.
BTW your fire dept is run with a bunch of my buddies!!!!!!
Take care and zap me that email so I can send you my number and you likewise....you will love the TIR!
*********
Flew all last night with the TIR 3 pro with Vector expansion....absolutely love it.
One thing I NEED to figure out is how to map a button on my joystick to turn OFF TIR.....I want to use my MSFF2 button 4 to become the TIR F9 key so that I can toggle it on and off. You may ask why? Well....riding in GVs sucks for now in TIR....I have to really play around with them to get them all set up right so I have reverted to driver position with it off...then turning it on for other things.
Also, turning it off gives you a break when you drop things on the floor or are talking to Wife Ack...LOL.....that way she wont throw up on your keyboard or monitor...LOL.
The LED light system can tell you about if it is on or not and is a nice feature.
I have had the view system get "LOCKED UP" twice....while flying last night it was stuck in the bottom of the plane (read looking at your seat bottom). I had to use my view switch to look up then shake my head from side to side....this is annoying but may just be operator error. Only happened twice though.
Situational awareness is greatly enhanced...gone are the days of me moving the hat switch/throttlebutton combo to get views of a bogie moving on me!!!! Dogfites are great! Lead angle shots are SOOOOOOO FRIGGIN EASY now especially when you are pulling lead on a bogie in a hard turnfight...just lean to the side and peak up and VOILA! you have them and can see your bullets either hitting him or going by!
Dont get me wrong...it takes getting used to. I have not yet messed with the software to scale it at all....the default is working just fine for me.
Anyhow will keep up the info....take care all!!!!!
Regards,
:D
-
Any comments on "looking over left shoulder" case.. anyone?
One has to yaw left and then move right... instead of move left and yaw left, like in real life.
At least it goes completely against my instincts and feels awkward :( The TIR head model looks fine (yaw left, move left), but in AH2 yaw and pitch pivot points do not move along with XYZ movements :(
-
Lead angle shots are SOOOOOOO FRIGGIN EASY now especially when you are pulling lead on a bogie in a hard turnfight...just lean to the side and peak up and VOILA! you have them and can see your bullets either hitting him or going by!
origionaly posted by gut boy
ya i gotta agree with that!, even with the strafe mode in tir 3 you could do some crazy deflection shots, i bet its a whole lot easier now!
-
I wonder if this has to do with my settings, or does it work the same way with the rest of you people??
Try this:
-Go to tower
-Move left until you are outside of the tower (X)
-Twist your head left or right (YAW)
Do you start moving around the tower? (like it happens to me)
Or do you stay put and only look in different directions from that point? (like it should happen IMHO)
If I roll my head instead of twisting, it works fine.. I stay put. Only yawing or pitching seems to make me move around.
-
Originally posted by BlauK
Any comments on "looking over left shoulder" case.. anyone?
One has to yaw left and then move right... instead of move left and yaw left, like in real life.
If I think about looking over my left shoulder to look out the canopy, I would turn my head to the left, then lean my head to the right to see past the canopy. If you leaned your head left, you would be looking at the seat back.
Am I misunderstanding you?
-
Nope, you understood me correctly.
Just think in what kind of position your body and head are while you lean right.
I would like to lean left just like the real pilot would do when he is sitting in cockpit. His bottom is in the chair after all and he cannot change the direction where his navel is pointing.
I would like to move my body and shoulders with X/Y/Z and my skull with YAW/PITCH/ROLL.
Try the example in tower I mentioned above ;)
-
I know that many people learn to think that they are leaning their heads and it will work just fine for them....
I am only asking an option to make it also work with the gutt feeling, the way the real pilot would move in the cockpit.
-
Blauk: It is working correctly as far as I can tell, I.E. Lean to right when looking back you look around right side. If it isn't working that way in your version, somting is different in your setup.
Also you seem to be the only one with this problem, including test by the track IR people.
HiTech
-
Originally posted by hitech
Blauk: It is working correctly as far as I can tell, I.E. Lean to right when looking back you look around right side.
"...around right side" related to your view point (?), yes. But why would I want to lean RIGHT if I am trying to look over my LEFT shoulder... at the LEFT rear window?
The point is moving XYZ related to my body, not related to where my head is twisted!
There is actually even a contradiction in current AH2 system. IN ROLL the XYZ do not move related to view, but in YAW and PITCH they do.
HiTech,
please try this tower example... why do I start running around the tower just by turning my head around when I have leaned to left outside of the tower? How can I only "move to left side of tower, stay put and look around from that point" ?
The animanted head in TrackIR windows does not behave like the AH2 pilot (run around the tower). If I move the head to left side of the window and yaw it around, it stays at the left side.. it does not spin around the center of the window.
I'll post a picture of "real pilot's position vs player's position" for 3 different cases to this thread asap... within next few hours so you people could see what I mean. :)
-
Ok.. got my kids to bed :)
Here are my points:
-player moves XYZ with his body (head cannot move much without body)
-therefore YAW and PITCH pivot points in game should move with XYZ (like neck moves with shoulders)
-ROLL pivot point already moves with XYZ
-real pilot's body does not YAW or PITCH because his bottom stays in the seat
In the following example X, Y and YAW are presented like in the picture below.
(http://www.virtualpilots.fi/LLv34/kuvat/tir1.gif)
PITCH and YAW work just fine individually, but when combined with X and/or Y, the results are not instinctive.. IMHO. They relate to twisting the whole body around with YAW even though the body cannot YAW around, and therefore they represent a "reality" which cannot happen in the cockpit.
Here are the 3 examples:
1) Pilot leans forwards and looks left (to avoid the middle cockpit frame e.g. in 109G-2)
2) Pilot leans left and looks to his 7 o'clock (to peek around the head armour)
3) Pilot lean forwards and twists around trying to check his 6 (trying to get away from the head armour to see better to both sides)
The moves of a real pilot are presented in column A while the player's moves necessary to achieve the view in AH2 currently are in column C. My suggestion and wish for necessary player moves are in column B.
IMHO, AH2 moves represent an alternate reality, which is shown in column D
(http://www.virtualpilots.fi/LLv34/kuvat/tir2.gif)
I hope that you all can see how the YAW pivot points and X/Y moves in column C are in many ways different from the real pilot in column A.
The solution would be to offer an option where the YAW and PITCH pivot points would move along with XYZ movements!
To rest my case, I present a final challenge. How can I currently do the following in AH2 with TIR vector?
- lean left, stay put and look in different directions? (the left picture below)
When I try it, the result is what is shown in the right picture... my head pops off and makes a wide circle aroud the cockpit.
(http://www.virtualpilots.fi/LLv34/kuvat/tir3.gif)
So, simply.. HTC, PLEASE,.. offer this solution, even just as an option, if it is not very difficult to make!!!
It should not be :)
-
Very nice explanation Blauk :) I was just about to post this. Vector expansion arrived today and I'm in the process of testing it out.
I also experience htis.
Basically - XYZ movement should be independant of current Yaw or Pitch view settings.
Looking straight through the gunsight. Moving sideways, forwards/backwards, and up and down (XYZ movement) works fine.
Now look left (90 degrees). The XYZ axes have moved WITH your current view. So, XYZ movement still exists, but it is relative to your new view (90 deg left). Moving sideways along the new X axis actually moves you FORWARD relative to the cockpit.. or forward along the original Z axis.
If the axes can be 'held in place' relative to the cockpit or vehicle you're in, then all will be well :)
-
Baulk: What your talking about would be intuitivly backwards for most people.
3rd just think of left and right realitive to your ears.
HiTech
-
Great explanation BlauK. What you says seems to make sense, but then again, I don't have my vector expansion, so I can't agree or disagree. Next week I'll weigh in again.
-
Yup, HiTech
Many things are fine with the average consumer in whichever business...
(I myself have been working in industrial design, ergonomics and usability fields for several years, and there for am pretty critical and choosy in some cases :eek: )
That is why I am asking (or begging :D ) this just as an option to satisfy those who think they are actually acting in a cockpit and position their thinking in relation to plane's axis. We may not be such a small minority after all in such a group as Flight Sim enhusiasts are.
The current way is a big immersion killer for a product which exists mostly for the sake of adding immersion, and like presented in last picture, it does not allow natural movements in some cases.... (makes one feel really dumb when the unexpected happens :( )
so.. pretty PLEASE :cool:
-
Blauk,
Had that headrest problem until I made my separation distance from the TrackIR camera and my track hat 24-30 inches like the manual says to for using the Vector enhancement. Then I was able to look around the headreast and back. Some of what you are running into is the reason rearview mirrors were installed.
Everyone I fly with using TrackIR in this mode loves it. I talk to them during missions. They won't go back to hat switches.
TrackIR has a forum for what you are asking here. The TrackIR developers have to address this. HiTech only writes for enabeling the device in his game. How it functions in 6 dimensions is up to the creators at NaturalPoint.
http://forums.naturalpoint.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi
-
Baulk:The solution would be to offer an option where the YAW and PITCH pivot points would move along with XYZ movements!
.
It sounds good on paper, but in practice it makes no practicle sense. When you turn your head....your concept of left and right turn with it. I know it looks all nice in your controled diagram...but lets take a look at it like this.
You stay centered and look all the way to the left till you have a 6 view.
Now you want to lean more out to the edge of the canopy
You think leaning RIGHT is going to be instinctive?
I think the issue is your diagrams show a 3rd person view of a 1st person experince. I just cant imagine it feeling 'right' to lean left and watch the view shift right.
RIght click SAVE AS...Windows Media file 4.5 megs showing how this works in practical use (http://www.combathanger.com/fighterreviews/tir/tirrrrr.wmv)
-
alf
double check ur download
it just sits there for me, I do not get any head movement in the cockpit
-
bustr,
TIR developers do not set the pivot points in AH2... HTC does. TIR only provides signals which HTC then utilizes in their own code.
ALF,
I already agreed that some people like the current way, some even liked the original TIR without vector expansion.
I am not asking for them to be removed. I am asking an additional feature to satisfy those who think in relation to their body and stick and plane's axis. 3-D perception (or sense) varies a lot with different people, u know :)
btw, how 'right' do you feel in real life when you turn your head left (90 deg) and then lean your body left... and realize that your view moves forwards instead of left... ;)
-
Well... after seeing the other video posted and alf's, I'm sold. Gotta have it.
Thanks for supporting this in the game, HTC.
-
Originally posted by hitech
Baulk: What your talking about would be intuitivly backwards for most people.
3rd just think of left and right realitive to your ears.
HiTech
I think Blauk must ride a motorcycle when to look back the body is twisted slightly and the the head is dipped as it looks rearward.........the eye line is then in the vertical (one eye above another)
What Blauk describes as AH2 mode is that of a car driver's position when in reversing.
If there was a bulkhead behind your head which would be used? supposing you had a Malcolm hood?
-
question about trackIR and AH...
there are some planes where the head position can not be moved (in regular HAT views).
take the p47d-11 for example, when looking up and right, you can not move the head position up, or forward IIRC.
are these limitations in trackIR too? maeaning does your virtual head "stop" in these same places?
also, i hav espent hours getting the best possible saved head positions, do these matter in any way with trackIR?
-
JB....seen the post on that....unsure....I think the head positions that are saved are irrelevant when using TrackIR although I may be entirely wrong due to the fact I am enamored with the thing and probably wouldnt notice the difference.
I do know that with an adjustment time (granted I havent flown every plane) but you can look in areas that I have never thought of before.
I can actually zoom off the 6 line and look everywhere....very nice feature..this is with vector mind you.
The only beef, if you could call it that, is when I look straight up...there is a flip very fast like your head would do as if watching a bogie pass right overhead and you were watching it.
Pref on my end would be to have it stop at the straight up...then let me move sideways to track.
Probably made no sense there but when my wife (who hates video games cuz they make her sick) said that is the way it should work....she said if she were a pilot she would try to watch it go the same way.
Anyhow.....regards
-
Guys "STRAP, BUCKEL, BELT, HARNESS" yourselves into a WW2 fighter cockpit with your parachute strapped to your kester. Some of us have. Try to move your head around and see over your shoulder behind you. Especially from a cockpit like a Hurrican, Pony-B, or P47D-11. Then Add "G" forces and the need to control your plane by keeping your feet on the peddels and pressure on your stick. Thats why rear view mirrors were mounted.
Think about what happens if you go inverted with your harness loose, or go into an uncontrolled spin due to a stall with a loose harness. I was in one once. Wound up with my feet on the dash board and a knot on my head. So thighten the harness enough to keep you in the seat during violent manuvering and you can't see worth didly behind you.
Which part of reality do you want. Looking over your shoulder sitting at home in you computer chair or flying a WW2 fighter in combat? Personally I could use a totally unobstructed view fighting shane. But I've been in fighters and would not change a thing.
-
Hi bustr.
Your assumptions about keeping shoulder belts tight is total incorect.
Lesson 1 when under G's do not turn your head. Turn your hole body. Turning your head can cause nasty things with your neck vertibray.
Leasson 2: When flying inverted make sure you do not have your sholder harness tight. You tighten your lap belt as much as possible, But tighting your sholder harness can cause a condition where your sholders get pined back, and you can not reach the stick.
Now I don't post this on pure conjector. Lesson 1 was taught to me while flying air combat with Bob Shaw.
Lesson 2 was taught to me by my aerobatics instructor.
Basicly the only time you ever tighten your sholder harness is when prepairing for a ditch.
HiTech
-
Originally posted by hitech
Hi bustr.
Your assumptions about keeping shoulder belts tight is total incorect.
Lesson 1 when under G's do not turn your head. Turn your hole body. Turning your head can cause nasty things with your neck vertibray.
Leasson 2: When flying inverted make sure you do not have your sholder harness tight. You tighten your lap belt as much as possible, But tighting your sholder harness can cause a condition where your sholders get pined back, and you can not reach the stick.
Now I don't post this on pure conjector. Lesson 1 was taught to me while flying air combat with Bob Shaw.
Lesson 2 was taught to me by my aerobatics instructor.
Basicly the only time you ever tighten your sholder harness is when prepairing for a ditch.
HiTech
Makes sense.
The very opposite of what you would do in a race car though.
I think that is what is confusing people.
-
Originally posted by hitech
Basicly the only time you ever tighten your sholder harness is when prepairing for a ditch.
Lets hope thats out of a book and not some of that 1st hand knowlege:D
-
73,,
TIR3 w/no vector and ver 3.12 SW and older uses your hat views for movement, but it pans through.
TIR3 w/ver 4.xx does not use the hat views.
TIR3 w/vector only works w/ver 4.xx,, but it rocks with all axii movement.
" Don't leave home without it"
:D
-
Well hey, instead of arguing who is right, which preference is best, or what color undies oct is wearing, how about trying to satisfy both parties?
Is this an issue that can be tweaked in AH2 or does this lie exclusively in the realm of the NaturalPoint team?
If it is the former case, then how much scotch would get us a "Lock XY movement to plane axes" option? :cool:
-
PINK!
-
Originally posted by Tarmac
PINK!
you silly man... you met him at the con....
they are either fruit of the loom tighty whities, purple granny panties he stole, or nothing at all.
since he only has 2 pair (the white and the purple) he waits a day to let them cool down before wearing them again.
-
HiTech,
any chances or considerations for the "option" yet?
Even a "maybe"?
I know I am not alone with this issue. At our Finnish winter con, Blitz 2005, just last weekend, many people tried my TIR3+vector set and most of them agreed with my opinion.
Just consider that fact that people do not move their joysticks in relation to what they see on the screen (when they turn the viewpoint around), but in relation to their body.. in relation to the imaginary plane around themselves.
Why couldn't the tir xyz movements work the same way.. in relation to the same imaginary plane and cockpit. ;)
-
Originally posted by guttboy
Could you email me your profile for it so I can have a baseline to work with....
Here's my custom profile:
____________________________
-
Edbert-AH
25
1
1
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
FWIW, I've got the Vector expansion, and I like the way it works just the way it is. It is totally intuitive for my in all 6DoF.
-
UPDATE FOR TRACKIR!
Ok first off let me tell you all I am SOLD on this product....it is simply amazing.
The vector expansion is the WAY to go.
Unfortunately once you get used to it (took me a week) you wont ever want to go back to the "old" way of doing things.
Unfortunately....PROTECT YOUR TRACKIR CLIP!!!!!! My dog got a hold of it and lets just say it was unrecoverable that afternoon when I found the "evidence".
The good thing is that it makes me realize HOW GREAT the product is....It was very unnatural to go back to the hat switch this week.
I called Naturalpoint and spoke with Jim.....he zapped me a new hat clip ASAP. Unfortunately I am in Colorado and wont be back for a few days to get it. By far some of the best people to talk with and ask questions on the Trackir product.
They are VERY willing to listen to suggestions and areas for improvement...just call them and you will see what I mean.
Anyhow KUDOS to the Natural point guys and cant wait to get my clip again!
DONT LOSE YOUR CLIPS!!!!!!!
PS pasting the dots to the hat does not work with vector...nor does manufacturing one out of ductape/coathanger/dots work either...trust me I know...LOL:eek:
-
Originally posted by Yippee38
FWIW, I've got the Vector expansion, and I like the way it works just the way it is. It is totally intuitive for my in all 6DoF.
Yippee... I am EXTREMELY happy for you. It is great that you are one of those with average perception of 3D environment.
Would you describe me how you use your TIR to check your low 7 o'clock and low 11 o'clock in one fluent motion? You lean right and then you lean left.. right? Very intuitive for you , I suppose.
How would you check the different directions to, let's say west (assume left side) of the control tower? Lean left to step out of tower and while turning your head around.... leaning wildly here and there trying to stay in same place out side of the tower??? Yeah, just like in real life... for you , I guess.
Finally, since you are so happy, what do you have against my wish? :( I am not trying to take anything away from you. I am only begging for an option to make it work my way as well.
When looking to my 6, I would not want to push my joystick right to make the plane roll left (=right in relation to the view). Why do I have to lean right to move left inside the cockpit (=right in relation to the view) with tir vector?
Look at the heads in vector software. They do not move like you move in AH. Just try the tower example.
-
Blauk is right. It does feel strange to the way one checks 6. Its like the pilot sitts backwards.
Maybe AH planes has a rotating chair ;)
-
HTC,
are there any chances that you might consider this option? yes/no/maybe?
I just dont like the office chair in airplanes, and I could sell away my TrackIR equipment... if I knew.
So, should I hang on to it in good faith and wait... or should I give up?
-
I agree with BlauK.
I too find it very odd to check 5 and 7 o'clock fast. I'd like the AH head position to act exactly like the TIR software head does.
I have reverted back to the non-vector TIR mode because the current AH way feels wrong to me.
I understand that maybe most people like the current AH way, but would, like BlauK, like an option to make the AH head behave like the TIR software head.
Pleeeeeease!
-
I deleted all the saved head possitions, that helped alot.
It does not feel that akward now.
-
BlauK cool it bud you are sounding like a broken record, HTC has nothing to do with how the track ir V works , go to the natrual point forums and talk with the team over there, they are extremely easy to work with, you dont need htc to hold your hand. :rolleyes:
-
Originally posted by eilif
BlauK cool it bud you are sounding like a broken record, HTC has nothing to do with how the track ir V works , go to the natrual point forums and talk with the team over there, they are extremely easy to work with, you dont need htc to hold your hand. :rolleyes:
We just ask that the AH head behaves like the TIR software head, that is why are scratching on HTC's door. If we should take this to Naturalpoint they'd probably just say that their software works like we ask.
-
eilif,
since you are interested in the issue, go back to previous page and read the posts more carefully ;) It is not a Naturalpoint issue. I would not contact e.g. Logitech about 'how esc-key works in AcesHigh'.
It is clearly about utilizing the already existing arrow key functions (moving sideways and up-down in relation to viewing direction) and zoom keys as XYZ movements inside the cockpit. They have been created originally for different reason (modifying viewpoints before saving them) and they just don't work naturally as pilot's body movements. Instead these keys end up subtituting the pilot's chair with a head-controlled rotating office chair.
Current system has just happened to be the easiest and fastest way to establish some of TrackIR Vector's functionality to AH. Unfortunately the main point of the whole hardware (immersion, being there with your whole body) has suffered with the quickest solution.
-
i duno.. i had a hell of a time until i changed my profile to 'flight' and now its a lot easier for me to handle.
my one problem is being able to shoot targets that ive gotten in front of me.. i bob my head around and lose sight of them too much :mad:
-
I just played microsoft flight sim 2004, i understand what blauk is getting at now. i really like the set up they have there, i think thats what tir was intended for, and it works great!
The trick is to move your torso first then do the paning, im sure ill get it down better with time, this is a much more emersive way to have it set up, and less frusturating.
how htc has it set up you have to do your paning first then do your torso movement, i find this doesnt work so well for me, its more intuative for the new user or previouse track ir user maybe, but is limited in how far you can go with it. Once your to the xyz position you desire you cant pan withought losing your position.
Both set ups are valid, both should be suported. and im sure they will be soon. Htc can only juggle so many things at once tho.
-
I still fail to understand how someone can claim its INTUATIVE to turn your head left....see a nice 6 view...and think the intuative thing is to lean left to make the view shift right?!?!?!
again....look here and please explain how you think leaning left making the view lean right makes sense. (http://www.combathanger.com/fighterreviews/tir/tirrrrr.wmv)
-
I see it both ways ALF. They make sense either way. It would be nice to have either option for whichever preference one may have. No sense knocking setup over the other... we don't have universal intuition here.
-
alf you would have already shifted your body in the forward view area before you paned your view past 3 oclock. What you have to do is seporate your body movements from what your head does. you dont move your head forward, you move your torso forward, you dont move your head right you move your torso right, htc has it so its relative to your ears, the default is to have it relative to your sholders. choose which ever suits you best.
-
Thanks for support and understanding guys :)
I think we can now all agree that there are people who prefer their XYZ movements relative to ears and others who prefer them relative to shoulders.
AH already supports the "ears way" (=relative to view direction).
We are just asking additional support for the "shoulders way" (=relative to airplane).
-
I think the next versions will require a TIR shirt or jacket with dots on the shoulders/collar/chest in addition to the three on the hat to get all the motions in there...LOL.
I understand Baluk's position and argument, I kind of like it the way it is personally but agree that having the choice would be best for everyone.
Moose, your comment is the biggest single complaint I have about using the TIR in combat. I often find myself disabling it when I am about to fire. I also do that when in a multi-con situation, one or two cons are trackable (for me) but when there;s more than that I get too disoriented with the TIR and go back to the JS hats.
-
Oh, by the way, for anyone reading this thread that is interested in purchasing a TIR. I got a coupon from Naturalpoint today that offers $30 off, they said I could give it to a friend. So if you are interested email me.
-
which version do you have edbert?
-
Originally posted by eilif
which version do you have edbert?
The version 3-pro, I bought it a while back and had to order the vector expansion separately.
-
Originally posted by Edbert
I
Moose, your comment is the biggest single complaint I have about using the TIR in combat. I often find myself disabling it when I am about to fire. I also do that when in a multi-con situation, one or two cons are trackable (for me) but when there;s more than that I get too disoriented with the TIR and go back to the JS hats.
Edbert , how are you going with this , Are you getting used to using it in combat ?
Do you use snap or pan for the track IR views ?
-
*punt* ...for the question.
Any chances for the "optional way"?
-
Hiya BK,
If you come to a decision to sell it I might be interested in buying.
...allthough I also would really like to see the option/feature BK is talking about!
-
I am not an owl, with a head that spins on a stick, so I think blauk is a hundred precents right !
When I turn my head I should not endup seing the back of the seat, but rather automatically lean a bit to the side that I am looking.
If I wanted to see straight behind me, I in the real world, would have to lean to the opposite side and turn my head.
It would be ultra cool if HTC could make a upside down U "path" for the head movement, or the way blauk has described.
Untill then
WOOOOooo (owl sound)
PS.
HTC has made a ultra super cool job so far on TIR anyway. No other game has the support for TIR as AH2 :aok
-
The best thing about Aces Highs implementation is that you can use the hat to look back and the TIR to lean left or right (again from the point of view you see on the screen), so you can get a great advantage in some fighters that force a left or right bias to hat switch users
-
Actually 5 and 7 o'clock views should be enough (like in real life). Human head does not rotate from 5 to 6 to 7... it goes from 5 to 12 to 7 ;)
That might even out the differences between obstructed and un-obstructed 6 views in different planes.
But maybe that would seem too difficult for "most players".
-
BlauK,
when you consider the torso completely fixed, you may be right. But just swivel the upper torso a little, and looking to the 180 degree-position (and beyond) is no problem at all (for most able-bodied persons).
Litjan
-
You're right when you say it works the way it is setup now, but some of us would prefer the way BlauK has outlined. It is, btw, how the TIR software head works. It's not just an odd idea BlauK has made up.
Move your physical head right, and the virtual head stays right in the cockpit even if you turn this or that way. It makes perfect sense to me, and it would definately feel more intuitive to me .
No need to convince us that it works, we know it works. We just ask for an even better (optional) way.
-
Ahhh.. was poking around today in setup and noticed a new "check" off for "Track IR relative view" or something similiar.
Anyone know what this is???
-
did I miss it, it looks like HT fixed the issue
-
In AH!?
-
When did this sneak in there? This is great! Now I need to re-readjust ;)
Thanks HT!!
-
and just when I finally got my head calibrated.
-
woot! thanks htc, cant argue with results can we:)
my ah head is alot more stable now, which is making gunnery/ everything alot easier!
origionaly posted by me a few weeks back:
Both set ups are valid, both should be suported. and im sure they will be soon. Htc can only juggle so many things at once tho.
what did i say :)
-
Wow... for some reason the AH BB mailer did not send me a notice that there were new posts in this thread. I just saw it by accident... and what great news :D :D
I can't wait to get home today to try it out. Was it mentioned in last patch readme? If it was , I have completely missed it. Purtty sneaky eh :)
Thanks HT!!!
-
I hadn't noticed either, why the neaky, sneaky?
TY HT!