Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Puff on December 20, 2004, 12:56:53 PM
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I've gotten pretty good at evasion when someone is between 800 and 1k off my 6. But I'm finding it very difficult to defend against someone when they are in that 200 to 400 window. I fly the 190 D9 more than anything and any of us that fly that aircraft know that it dosen't just turn on a dime. When something like a LALA or a diving spit with E on me.
Any help is appreciated.
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Don't let them get there in a D9!
I am only half joking...... you should be using that plane's speed and climb advantage, not turning and burning, nor letting someone get that close.
Frankly, your options are limited... The one thing most B&Zers have on their side is role rate. I often execute a 270 degree roll and pull hard....a slower turner will lag your turn. I straighten out quickly, since the Dora doesn't lose much e in a fast, short pull up, and many others do. Start establishing your gap and get out of dodge.
The other effective roll evasive is the 90 one way, 180 back the other and PULL HARD. Once again, you can establish a gap and exploit to evade.
Go back to the first line....don't let them that close on your 6!!!!
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If you're just trying to live for a few more seconds, to complete your rossary or whatever, sideslipping works well for spoiling aim. But you're still probably going to die. You might be able to break opposite of them when the try to correct their aim, and then get into a scissor fight, but once they are that close on me, I'm pretty much ****ed.
If the enemy has major speed (and the rate of closure is pretty fast) you can usually force an overshoot with something as simple as a barrell roll.
-Sik
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STIR YOUR STICK AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!
or just roll indefinately, only evasive most run-90 people know...
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Don't stick stir. He is being *sarcastic*.
Nothing makes you look more incompetent than stick stirring... God I hate it.
I don't even know how someone could do it and think they were flying.
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Well, against the spit is pretty rough, if you are in a 190, your best bet against the spit is to keep fast and slash him to death, but if he's 400 off your 6 (and this goes for both planes) what you can do better than both of them is scissor. What I would do is break down and to the left, as they start to turn to follow make a turn to the right and chop your throttle. As they follow you to the right, turn back into them to the left. The idea is that they will be going much faster than you, overshoot, and you get position on their 6. Bad thing about this maneuver is that you will cross their gunsights a few times. And if either of them is good in a lag pursuit, you are screwed =)
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If you let a Spit or La7 get 400 yards off your 6, you are basically dead.
You could resort to the JB evasive, which is flopping around while headed to the closest ack (even if it is 50 miles away), but that won't work real well against a plane with Hizookas, or a plane with more than 1 normal 20mm.
If you have a little bit of alt, dive. They'll think you are trying to run, so chop throttle and cross your controls (full rudder one way, ailerons the other to keep the plane 'straight', you'll fly crooked), roll, or something to bleed off speed. Once you get them right off your 6, firewall the throttle and run.
Doesn't work so well if you get caught slow on the deck though.
Even then unless they are marginally faster and close you have some options.. it is relatively easy to force and overshoot and bleed their speed down to where you can safely run away if they start much faster than you, it is near impossible to do it if they are only a little faster to begin with.
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when I have a con that close on my 6, I start thinking about what plane I'm going to fly on my next run.
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cut the throttle, lower all flaps, drop the gear if needed and barrel roll or scissor untill they overshoot.
most people in the MA fly at FFT (full friken throttle) and you have more than a good chance of making them overshoot. this tactic relies mainly on them missing the easy kill you offer by slowing down.
it works, somtimes.
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Originally posted by Heretik
when I have a con that close on my 6, I start thinking about what plane I'm going to fly on my next run.
Great quote! lmao
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Originally posted by TalonX
Don't stick stir. He is being *sarcastic*.
Nothing makes you look more incompetent than stick stirring... God I hate it.
I don't even know how someone could do it and think they were flying.
To the majority of players, a barrel roll with rudder added is considered stick stirring. You must fly straight and level whenever any enemy is trying to shoot you or you are stick stirring.
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Originally posted by rpm
To the majority of players, a barrel roll with rudder added is considered stick stirring. You must fly straight and level whenever any enemy is trying to shoot you or you are stick stirring.
Really? I always thought stick stirring was when you make your plane spasm like a doped up raver?
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Use your tail guns
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The D9 has a very violent spin but easy recovery, so if you get slow enough you can do the spin-dweeb evade. This is a temporary solution though.
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Originally posted by Puff
I've gotten pretty good at evasion when someone is between 800 and 1k off my 6. But I'm finding it very difficult to defend against someone when they are in that 200 to 400 window. I fly the 190 D9 more than anything and any of us that fly that aircraft know that it dosen't just turn on a dime. When something like a LALA or a diving spit with E on me.
Any help is appreciated.
Your probably gonna die so try a big flat or rolling scissors.
You've got firepower so 1 crossing snapshot is all you need.
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As has been pointed out, the best way to shake a bogey off your six is never to let him get there to begin with :)
I fly the 190A8, it doesn't even turn as good as the Dora.
What you have in the 190's is an incredibly quick roll. This changes your lift vector.
Don't just roll back and forth. The average bogey pilot will fly straight as you quickly zig zag in front of him, close range and blow you away.
Roll left, the quickly roll right, and make sure you see what the bogey is doing. And always put some down movement as you roll to fly under his snap shots.
If he is flying straight, keep turning until he does, then roll again.
This will give you more seperation, and get him off balance :)
Don't just zig if front of him, make him follow you, he can't keep up unless it is another 190. Then you should be able to get vertical in the Dora, and eventually kill him.
If you are low, well you gonna die. If you are flying the 190 right, you will have some alt to now dive down, pick up speed and get out of dodge.
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just bail out and save everyone alot of time
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Originally posted by Heretik
when I have a con that close on my 6, I start thinking about what plane I'm going to fly on my next run.
LMFAO:lol
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Do a quick bank left to get con turning left... then roll and siccior back to the right..... then cut throttle roll under dive hard back left rolling and cutting throttle.... if he follows he should overshoot easy .. siccior and roll as needed ...
line him up on your side as he moves by you useing rudder to roll out of the way ..... then kick in throttle as he comes abreast ... slide in behind him and shoot ....
easy.... but precise control is nesscary. If your floping and stalling and tourqeing from moveing throttle around too rapidly... you'll be lucky to not get shot .....
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Originally posted by Furball
STIR YOUR STICK AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!
or just roll indefinately, only evasive most run-90 people know...
:rofl
I FRICKEN HATE THOSE PEOPLE
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i try and pull up on stick hard while rolling right or left and pushing the nose down hard when you comeout of roll, than try and break away at an angle away from attackers nose...than firewall it and escape...alot of times this leaves them looking for ya for a second or two buying you time to run.
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Snap rolls and some side slip is your only hope............
not many roll to 180 thru inverted and this may create a degree of hesitation the first time you do it...........your best but slender chance is to reverse roll whilst under his nose and gain separation........ then snap again to gain angle.....he will have a cocpit shot unless you add slip (he still may)
learn to fly whilst looking back constantly (I cant do this but I have watched others who can) only this way can you judge the timing of your snap roll.....remember that lag effects what you see and what he sees (re relative views of each others roll patterns particularly with sequential snap roll break turns)
basically your opponents greatest fear is that some one is going to steal "his" kill.
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Use the roll rate of the dora to your advantage - get the guy on your six commited in a turn, then roll inside and underneath him. If he's raising his nose to get a shot at you chances are he can't see you well enough to know what you're doing in time to compensate for it. Like Tilt said though, learn to fly looking backwards so you can keep an eye on him.
Cheers, and GL
asw
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Well, your gonna die.
Try a hard flat scissors. Learn to fly looking out the rear. On your first break watch out the back...as *soon* as his wings begin their bank to follow, reverse the bank and pull. A throttle chop will help put him out front.
In a Corsair I'll drop the gear sometimes.
Rinse and repeat. If you don't have a passing shot after the second reverse your going to die.
But you got to play with the stick, look out that back window and stuff..
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Close eyes, spread legs, and Kurt will do the rest. :cool:
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Originally posted by Puff
I've gotten pretty good at evasion when someone is between 800 and 1k off my 6. But I'm finding it very difficult to defend against someone when they are in that 200 to 400 window. I fly the 190 D9 more than anything and any of us that fly that aircraft know that it dosen't just turn on a dime. When something like a LALA or a diving spit with E on me.
Any help is appreciated.
Depends what plane is on your 6, what is your and his speed. Also you have to watch his moves if you was fighting him before, against new pilots some things work, against vets others. Actually normally if he is good, you will be dead anyway.
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Well, whatever answer you adopt, your evasive should involve moving in two dimensions. I mention this because most new players only break in one dimension - i.e. Pull Up, Push Down, Turn Flat Left, Turn Flat Right. Remember to dive and climb while turning, use rudder to change your final direction when rolling under, make his shots on you require more than just a little lead.
Now I am one of the worst shots in the game, I can miss on a low-speed close against an AFK Buff, but I've found I only rarely miss against the Tiffie of Dora pilot who simply pulls up on the stick in the typical "power zoom". The pilot who lives longest in your situation tends to be the one who moves most in all three dimensions or sees a good exit strategy and takes it (other than ALT-F4).
BTW - use terrain - dive towards trees, maneuver close to and over hills - As one wise man already said - his greatest fear is that he will have "his" kill stolen. A pilot in that situation is more prone to fly into the ground, giving you the proxy...
... before the guys he was afraid would steal his kill light you up that is.
- SEAGOON
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Yeah I've found that I really enjoy either chasing someone or being chased at ground level. Nothing better than seeing the trees going by at 400+.
Thanks for all the advice guys. It really helps. I've been playing for a few years now and there are still many many things that I need to work on, this being one of them.
and see ya in the skys!
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if at 10K or above just dive dive dive full wep and make sure he stays behind you.
then at the last possible moment,
bail
LMAO
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You should aim to.... rather than just evade the enemy, you should try and position yourself to kill him.
(and yes, my stick stirring comment was a joke, but a dig aimed at luftweenies.)
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Originally posted by mechanic
cut the throttle, lower all flaps, drop the gear if needed and barrel roll or scissor untill they overshoot.
Exactly what I was going to say! NEVER give up. If they're 400-200 on your tail you're not the hunted. You just need to get them in front of you. Chop throttle to nil (watch the roll trim when you do) full rudder and a barrel roll if you can. Gear and/or flaps I do without. When I try forcing an overshoot like that I find it takes too long to drop and then pull up these items, and that likely as not I'm decelerating just as well without them.
I don't fly a D9 much but it works wonders in an A8
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Depending if you have the speed (under 250mph in a dora say your last rights) you can do a low g barrel roll as your opener to a rolling scissors.. The reason for the barrel roll is to determine if the bad guy on six is going passive or aggressive on his gun solution / saddle and not to make a easy target for a snapshot...
While doing the barrel roll it should be under 4gs thruout and while doing such see if the bad guy (rear view) is following your barrel or sitting back there waiting for you to roll your self to death... If he follows the barrel add more g and go into a 3 scissor breakaway.. If closure rate is fast hell blow by... (becuase the 190 can bleed e at high G very well beware tiffie and yak in this scenario due to their e bleed..) If he just sits back there (the more dangerous pilot / more experienced) then you got to work more.. The key is while he's passive you go aggressive with your scissors after the barrel roll but do not reverse one way or the other until he commits for the gun solution in you high g turn... then a standard scissors works well especially with throttle chop and the 190's e bleed at high g..... now say you get lucky (he shouldn't be at the range in the first place in a dora) and get the over shoot.. watch for them to go nose high and use the vert to reaquire you... with some anticipation of this sometimes you can force a headon (since your purely defensive its A ok...) and bag the sucka.. but again you work is cut out for you 400 - 600m out..getting progressively harder as speed gets below 250 and easier above 300mph.. experience will help you determine closer rates to improvise on what i discussed above...
hope this helps..
DoctorYo
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You wont be able to, to get some lube and im sure you know what to do from there.;)
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left turn, right turn, climb, dive, 3/4 rudder etc...
New computer and cable connect, makes you equal.
No amount of ACM can beat it.
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Originally posted by Furball
STIR YOUR STICK AS FAST AS YOU CAN!!!
or just roll indefinately, only evasive most run-90 people know...
:rofl
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Cant believe why nobody mentioned it..
Why not climb? 300-400, pull as hard as you can, pull into a full loop, right on the top cut throttle, and he will pass you if he tried to loop with you.
Just one of those skills you forget that you have under your sleeve..
Easy as that ;)
P.S Opponent skills vary, so careful.
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Unplug your modem or alt-F4
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Originally posted by streetstang
Unplug your modem or alt-F4
:rofl , as of what wildthing said In aceshigh 1 i use to try that but ussally the person would just shoot infront of you while your rising and bam
your done with.
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Originally posted by Fariz
Depends what plane is on your 6, what is your and his speed. Also you have to watch his moves if you was fighting him before, against new pilots some things work, against vets others. Actually normally if he is good, you will be dead anyway.
LOL
hallo fariz, nice to see you around :D
orel
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Originally posted by jetb123
:rofl , as of what wildthing said In aceshigh 1 i use to try that but ussally the person would just shoot infront of you while your rising and bam
your done with.
responding to:
quote:Originally posted by streetstang
Unplug your modem or alt-F4
:eek: U used to unplug your modem or hit ALT+F4 to evade being killed?!?
funny that you should even admit to cheating on a public forum. :mad:
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What you need is a magic word.
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Originally posted by rabbidrabbit
What you need is a magic word.
like : " Honey ... do you have 5 mins of free time ?"
:D
ups.. it were more less magic sentense
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no silly... like "Armageddon!" or some other word to let that special someone who is tight on your 6 know that the funs over.
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hitting alt-f4 is considered cheating now? lol wtf?
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Because there is no chute to kill!:mad:
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Puff....
Truthfully you've almost got em where you want em...in front of you. Your leaving out all the important info...relative speeds, alt and AoA...so I'll make some assumptions...
He's faster than you and he's 15 to 30 degrees of your six...will put you on the deck as well to limit your options....
1st you need to avoid getting hit....your best weapon is roll rate.
2nd you need to create an overshoot...well your second best weapon is relative E bleed...you "outbleed" both the spitty and lala...
So....
Assuming bogies on your "left" you need to "roll" right and chop throttle...your giving badguy what he wants a "planeform" shot...you need to be looking at bad guy...your waiting for his wings to "roll in plane" with yours...you need to rollback hard as soon as his wings come close to lining up on you (still off gas no black out)...he'll now be out of sync to you and faster. As he comes back around you now need to initiate a rolling scissors by pulling and rolling back into him...if you do it right you'll "squirt" him out in front of you....
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Originally posted by thrila
Because there is no chute to kill!:mad:
that remind me time, when Niki were flying like an UFO and non of Niki chute made it down.
Killing Niki pilots on chute were mandatory :D
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Originally posted by TBolt A-10
:eek: U used to unplug your modem or hit ALT+F4 to evade being killed?!?
funny that you should even admit to cheating on a public forum. :mad:
If i had a modem lol. No i wouldnt do that because it took me like 3 minutes just to get into AH1 anyway you edited my type. :P
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Originally posted by Heretik
when I have a con that close on my 6, I start thinking about what plane I'm going to fly on my next run.
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
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Originally posted by jetb123
If i had a modem lol. No i wouldnt do that because it took me like 3 minutes just to get into AH1 anyway you edited my type. :P
No, I wouldn't edit your text. That wouldn't be cool. But, I'm glad I misunderstood your comment about modem tipping. :)
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Whatever you plan to do, dont forget to do it with C-Trim dissenganged.