Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: dolomite on February 03, 2000, 08:30:00 PM
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Don't. They don't want to hear it. It won't matter what you say or how you say it, someone will be resentful of you being there talking about anything else than WB's.
Fact is, they have a point. Most go there to read about the great things about WB's, the problems with it, and what they'd like to see. Thing is, discussions like this are like discussions of one's family; I can call my sister a dog, but no one else better. It's their board (I know, some of us play there too), and they should be left in peace if that's what they want.
We know we have a great thing here. They believe they have something great too. At this point, they know about AH, and we know about WB. It's now up to them to come here to try it, or vice-versa. Going over there simply antagonizes them into knee-jerk responses.
I still read AGW, mainly because WB/DoA was a big part of my life, and still could be. Many here are straddling the fence too. I don't post because there is nothing positive for me to say about iEN at the moment, and they don't want to hear the negative. Nothing good can be accomplished by pursuing it, so... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Let's leave 'em alone over there. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Good post, and I agree. I did just go off on a rant over there but didnt mention Aces High (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I've met a lot of the AGW people and consider them my friends. I'll talk with them about what-bloody-ever I want to talk with them about!
I say this respectfully. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 02-03-2000).]
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Dolomite it's not 'their' board - it's Argo's. He decides what stays and what goes and it's not a one-sim messageboard.
Yeah sure, people are lazy and post everything in the general board but I assume you know he has a forum for discussing other sims?
So there's no reason you can't post all you want about whatever sim you want as long as it's in the right forum.
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Glars
RNZAF
Maps now available for Beta Terrain
http://glarsmaps.warbirds.org (http://glarsmaps.warbirds.org)
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Also, dont try B17II 's forum on "bombs-away"...pffrrrt, they will bomb you to hell, whatever you say...
Very nice community...
PS : Seeing the many typo errors that I usualy do, you can Imagine WHY I let down programming (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Saw/Saintaw
BISHOP'S FINEST FLYING BRICK
DCO 186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
http://www.wardogs.org/ (http://www.wardogs.org/)
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."
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I'll post here and there and even on iEN BBS.
I keep both accounts opened (yes, I've subscribed AH). I wish the best for both, my squad is there with the Mac guys.
Post like yours will separate more and more the two communities. Too bad.
Gatt
4th Stormo CT
[This message has been edited by gatt (edited 02-04-2000).]
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It's my hope that on some level all of us flight simmers can respect and appreciate one another. The last thing I want to do is ostracize anyone. After all we as a collective group have one single common bond: the air war of WWII. Most of the flight sims we associate with are really quite good, the differences being not quite as pronounced as some would lead us to believe. In fact, a good pilot in AW would be a good pilot in WB, would be a good pilot in FA, would be good pilot in AH.
I can certainly understand the frustration of the WB community, since they have lost many people, squaddies, trainers, even programmers and staff. It is always hard to see people come and go, and right now WB has gotten to a point where it has matured into just one of a few options for us simmers. The limelight has dimmed a little, as it does with all things. AW has survived through all this, and I'm sure WB will too, given competent management by iEN.
I enjoy having met people from other sims like AW, because it has shown me that we really aren't all that different.
Finally, I just wanted to point out that I don't consider AH 'the best'. Certainly, it is my personal choice, but that is all it is. When I played in WB, I used to think of WB as 'the best', which opened the way for contempt of other simmers in places like FA and AW. Now, I realize that anyone who flies a decent flight sim under the most realistic conditions for that game is just as knowledgable as I am. So, there is no real 'best', because they all do a pretty fine job. It's just that I like Pyro and HT a lot and trust in their creative talents. Nothing more, nothing less. And the AH community has turned out pretty nicely too.
Poka! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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leonid
129 IAP VVS RKKA
[This message has been edited by leonid (edited 02-04-2000).]
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I've met a lot of the AGW people and consider them my friends. I'll talk with them about what-bloody-ever I want to talk with them about!
Exactly. That board has had discussions about other sims for ages and now we should stop it? No joy. This far WB has been the best choice so other sims have been below it. Now there is for a first time a competent challenger and it makes some folks nervous.
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jochen
Geschwaderkommodore
Jagdgeschwader 2 'Richthofen' (http://personal.inet.fi/cool/jan.nousiainen/JG2) (Warbirds)
If you ever get across the sea to England,
Then maybe at the closing of the day
The bars will all be serving German lager
Which means we won the war - hip hip hooray!
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Funked, Glars, and Gatt-
If you think my intent is to start trouble- far be it! My intent is to minimize it. As I say, I do read AGW, had been a member of iEN, and continue to have an interest. Of course if you are still a paying member you have as much right as any to post as you will.
My point is I haven't seen one thread started over there (about anything other than WB) that didn't devolve into a flame-fest. Maybe instead of suggesting guys not post I should say "think about what you hope to accomplish". This is not to suggest you or anyone has made thoughtless posts - I don't. I am saying the audience for the most part has closed their ears and aren't listening anyway.
I've read many threads were you guys (and others) have stated clear, salient points, only to be assailed needlessly. I'm out of line for suggesting it, I suppose, but I think there is a time for "cooling off" needed here.YMMV (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
No insult taken, and no disprespect intended. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I've read many threads were you guys (and others) have stated clear, salient points, only to be assailed needlessly
Dolomite,
take a look at threads like these, they *are* useful for the whole community (I mean me and my WB friends):
http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw/Forum3/HTML/010170.html (http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw/Forum3/HTML/010170.html)
http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw/Forum3/HTML/010169.html (http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw/Forum3/HTML/010169.html)
http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw/Forum3/HTML/010174.html (http://agw.dogfighter.com/agw/Forum3/HTML/010174.html)
and *above all* this one:
http://lists.imagiconline.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000582.html (http://lists.imagiconline.com/ubb/Forum19/HTML/000582.html)
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I think Dolomite's point is not so much as we should *never* post on other boards but that if we do then we should be ready to be attacked.
I to have seen many posts that ask simple questions or try to give the other boards info on AH only to get attacked.
I still post on AGW but I always expect to get hammered by the same diehard WB'ers(could mention names but I don't want to start a war) for doing nothing more than mentioning AH.
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Mighty1
The New Baby Harp Seals
"Come try to club THIS Seal"
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Geez, fellas, don't jump all over Dolomite. I don't think some of you got his point. I think he was trying to say that the Warbirds community is very sensitive to the fact that AH is getting new planes almost weekly(No new planes in WB since May 1999), that AH is not available for the Mac OS(many AGW posters can't fly AH even if they wanted to).
Simply put, most people hanging out on AGW(myself included) are frustrated with the slow pace of development of Warbirds, and they are not taking kindly to people singing the praises of AH right now. I'm flying both, so I'm careful as to what I post. Think about all the Mac guys who are boiling inside because AH sounds really cool, yet they can't do anything about it, barring dropping a grand or two on a new system.
I don't think the posters on AGW have anything against AH, per se(except for stiglr, perhaps), but they don't appreciate anyone coming over and saying "Hey, look what we just got in AH today!"
I'm not saying if that attitude is right or wrong, it's just my take on how the state of AGW is at the moment.
Good ol Dolomite is not trying to tell you all what to do, he's just sensitive to the fact some Warbirders may not be in the mood to sing AH's praises at the moment, that's all.
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banana
*MOL* (Men of Leisure)
WB: -baxl- CO *Pale Riders Squadron*
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banana, Mighty1-
Exactly right, and you said it better than I did! S! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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OK. Where is this AGW and how can I get there?? I've got a load I want to get off my mind at some folks who've been in here from there....
Curly
(j/k btw)
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"I enjoy having met people from other sims like AW, because it has shown me that we really aren't all that different."
And that is the Cod's honest truth Leonid.
Aces High is proving to be melting pot of some sorts (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) I see alot of people I recognize from WB's because I read the WB's newsgroups often too. And I see alot of friends from AW3 that have been flying the beta and I truly hope they subscribe here.
There will alwasy be a healthy rivalry between all the sims that, at times, some people will take to extremes. It's inevitable. It happens in sports, with auto hobbiests..heck all hobbies and interests really.
But underneath it all we all have a common interest in WWII aircraft and that's what makes us all comrades no matter what jacket or patch we wear.
-Westy
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I'm sure this post by Kieren (Dolo) has probably got something to do with my lastest post, here's how it read yesterday:
"Question: How many of you would like to have ground vehicles, driveable ones, that can lob shells into enemy fields, and can shoot down enemy aircraft?
2nd question: How many of you are that dedicated to WB's to actually give up WB's to fly in a sim that has ground vehicles that play a part in the strat of the game?"
My reasons for asking were this:
1) To find out if there is a desire in this flight sim combat arena community for a sim with A) good flight model and B) vehicles...both AH and WB's falls under this.
2) IMO, the first of these above mentioned sims that get vehicles will get most of the business, assuming that by the time this happens AH will have comparable arena's to WB's, as well as number of planes.
Just sampling the folks who fly aircombat.
If they take it personally, THEY have a problem.
I'll continue posting over there, even if it IS controversial, not to spite Dolomite or anyone else, but because I have 1st amendment rights (Granted that Argo has the club to beat down the 1st on his board (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Defected~)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977
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You crack me upp!
Like the ones bringing up WB´s strong points in this forum dont get flamed? lol!
// -nr-1-
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Maniac-
Of course they do, but they are more quickly corrected here by people that fly both. Of course both sides will have bias. But I am not over there asking them to think twice about what they post here, am I? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) Which of my other points are you disagreeing with?
Gatt-
Yes, those are threads I have followed, and they bring to light very valid points.
Ripsnort-
Yes, read the thread. Innocent questions you asked, immediate defensive responses you got. I think you, Funked, Gatt, Leonid, and many others have been pretty balanced on your comments FWIW. And for those of us who still have a large stake in WB (squads, iEN membership, etc) more power to you. I too hope iEN gets things back on track, but as I don't even have a subscription anymore, I don't feel I have the right to comment on any of their designated BBS's.
To All-
Look, the last thing I would want to do is create devisiveness in our community. The trouble is that it is already there, and it seems to be growing. My approach is most likely completey erroneous, but my intent is this; why go looking for trouble?
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One more thing, and then I'll shut up (promise!)
There are several here that stand out in my mind as being thoughtful or enthusiastic in their thoughts:
Saintaw: Love your enthusiasm! You are already showing yourself to be a very stand-up guy, and a pleasure to "know".
Hangtime: Right or wrong, I always love your posts on the P51 (or otherwise). You have style!
Leonid: I picture you as the old wise man of the village; every post measured, thoughtful, and insightful.
Funked: Passion!
Lephturn: Great knowledge of ACM and tactics, always a helpful hint.
Hristo: Very knowledgeable on the nuances of LW a/c - an invaluable resource.
Fishu:----------
Gatt: Great source of Italian a/c specs and history; very level-headed.
Curly: Some of the funniest damn one-liners I've ever read!
Ripsnort: Here is a community man, trying to build up the sim. Enthusiasm!
TT: Shoots from the hip, takes no prisoners.
Fishu: ---------
Rosco: An old ace bud from DoA, I greatly respect his character.
And there are many more. There are many from WB whom I greatly respect as well. It's too bad so much of the great insight is lost in the bickering.
P.S.
Fishu: Really an OK guy, and knows what he is talking about (though the delivery... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif))
[This message has been edited by dolomite (edited 02-04-2000).]
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You forgot Mino...
Who leads all aces in UBB posting. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
529 and counting...
Mino
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 02-04-2000).]
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Dolomite, thx for the kind words. I love this community. Uhmmm, "level headed" ... hehe (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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And,last but not least...
Dolomite: Ambassador to AH, great guy to fly with/against!
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Defected~)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977
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I'll second that nomination Ripsnort!
--Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 02-04-2000).]
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And I third that, Ripsnort (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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leonid
129 IAP VVS RKKA
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(Blast Shield down, selecting zone 5, ECM pods max, deflectors on--double front)...
Fd-ski comes over to AGW and posts a picture of the new AH Spitfire. Great. Pretty. Cool. No problem. Bring us a piccy of the La-7 and the P-61 too. Advertising is great, and I don't think anyone is rooting against HTC or "jealous" of the success they're headed for. Heck, post the pix in the main forum. Argo will move em if he doesn't like it.
Now, tho, XYZ123 comes over there and posts "What a sorry state this once-proud community is in if all they can talk about is (silly topic #1) or (useless topic #2). I guess you all have a lot of time on your hands since you can't connect to the servers most of the time and the new gunnery model is only for US planes. Betcha wish you were playing a "real man's" sim like the rest of us now, eh?"
So, if a Warbirder came over here and proceeded to suggest that you were all too stupid to see the flaws of Aces High and that HTC was a company of jerks who don't really care about their customers, what would his reception HERE be, eh?
Anyone here actually think that the players in WB need to be constantly reminded of the flaws in that sim? You don't think they AND iEN are well aware of what needs fixin? I'd say the "privilege" of constantly whining about the "state of the game" belongs to those who actually PLAY the game, and not to those who've decided NOT to play that game anymore.
If you want to invoke your right of free speech on the AGW board, then do it as a WB player, not as an AH player. Or don't be surprised by the "free speech" you get in return.
(P.S. notice how I got all the way through there without any criticism of Aces High: The Sim?" Do you really think there's not any criticism I could make?)
--jedi
(Deflectors double rear, chaff now, flares now, release decoy; makin the jump to hyperspace...)
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Hmmmz.... =D
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Chain
Aki Holopainen
aki.holopainen@quicknet.inet.fi
*Überfinns Perkeleet & The Flying Finns*
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Wasn't something allong the lines of
"Now, tho, XYZ123 comes over there and posts "What a sorry state this once-proud community is in if all they can
talk about is (silly topic #1) or (useless topic #2). I guess you all have a lot of time on your hands since you can't
connect to the servers most of the time and the new gunnery model is only for US planes. Betcha wish you were
playing a "real man's" sim like the rest of us now, eh?" "
Posted by bloo? I thought he was a WBs trainer as well.
I bite my tongue when I see threads like that on AGW, but I do agree with em. I just haven't been impressed with iENs ability to keep a game I used to be passionate about. Poor connects, no news on the nebulous WB3, what have you.
I wonder if it's just othe players who are disillusioned by a perceived lack of progress on iENs part who are posting these thoughts? I myself have been enjoying the "feel" here--actual feedback can be given to the designers with results appearing a short while later in patch form.
I guess you do have to give the iEN guys a break-- they are dealing with legacy code they may or may not be comfortable with. HTC gets to start from scratch.
Shoot. Well I thought I had a point when I started writing this. Guess I was wrong. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Yeah, jedi, Bloo is strictly a WB'er, right? I've never known him to be in AH...
That being said, I do know that there have been a number of people playing AH that have made posts along the lines you've stated, so your statement still stands.
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leonid
129 IAP VVS RKKA
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"Bring us a piccy of the La-7 and the P-61 too"
What where when? Huh? Did I miss something? That would be great if true!
Note to AH board people: Jedi actually pays for his account unlike many AGW board WB boosters. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
[This message has been edited by funked (edited 02-05-2000).]
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Mino I shall conquer you MUAHAHA!!
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Funked;
I
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don't
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think
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so...
LOL
I hit "Flood Control" on this one. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mino
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I just wanna see how many posts I have here.
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Lincoln "Downtown" Brown.
lkbrown1@tir.com
http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1 (http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1)
Those who don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
Hals und beinbruch!
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I
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Lincoln "Downtown" Brown.
lkbrown1@tir.com
http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1 (http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1)
Those who don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
Hals und beinbruch!
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I was gonna do,
"I think you guys are taking this too far" one letter at a time, but don't have the time for all that flood control stuph.
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Lincoln "Downtown" Brown.
lkbrown1@tir.com
http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1 (http://www.tir.com/~lkbrown1)
Those who don't remember the past are condemned to repeat it.
Hals und beinbruch!
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L
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O
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L