Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Firefox on January 17, 2000, 01:34:00 PM
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Im STEPPING WAY WAY OUT on a limb here, but let me know if you would be interested in Training in a training environment. If enough people reply maybe I could ask HT for an arena for training. I see more and more people asking for help and its difficult at best with 100+ online chatting, talking, yelling etc etc.
There are several experianced people out there that could help, and once we got a place we could try to get some much needed help.
I can do some off line but it would be much easier in a set place.
HT, Im not stepping on toes Honestly, Im just trying to get help to the newbies. Is there a possibility of bringing up an arena set asside for training only. If you have plans and dont want to reveal them right away I understand.
And people, please DONT Mail HT Creations people about this. Im doing this on my own to try and help out.
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Rick "Firefox" Scott
VMF-214 / MAG 11
WB ID: firefx
AH ID: FirefxAT
Have Gun Will Travel
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Absolutly! I have been flying sims for a few years now but the learning curve for Aces High is steep. I discover new tricks all the time but its a slow process w/o some tips/guidance. It would also be great for practice and dueling as well,in Warbirds the EZ Targets go to the P/D arena weekly and spend a few hours killing each other-it`s a hoot! If you get one set up I`ll be there for some training or be a drone for ya. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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}]
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
[This message has been edited by weazel (edited 01-17-2000).]
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Yes.
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Interested.
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Very Interested (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Rocket
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The Red Dragons
Fierce and Bold
With Honour and Courage
_______________________
www.reddragons.de
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Yes, definately.
There have been a few new folks I have attempted to do a bit of 1v1 training with. It is really difficult to do it in the arena, as a third party will always come looking after a bit.
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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Yep... would be very usefull (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I would be spending a considerable time there (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/cool.gif)
BEE
Buzzin around trying to sting someone, ANYONE!
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Would be.
I did some buff training flights but the 'main' arena is a hard trainer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Otoh, flying buffs is considered too easy anyways...
Az
btw, I don't think that the HTC crew would consider a training arena as a vital part of the beta test. It would fit into the game when it goes pay, but not earlier.
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Indeed, the learnign curve is STEEP and I want to get to know that thing (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Verry interested !
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Saint
DCO 186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
http://www.wardogs.org/ (http://www.wardogs.org/)
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I'd love a training area where someone could help me learn to fly the fighters. The bombers I got, but I need _alot_ of help in the fighters =)
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Training area would be nice.
I learned the bombers on my second day, but to this day(a week) I still havent mastered the fighter. I have gotten 1 or 2 awesome kills in fighters though.
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YES, I NEED some Help urgent. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Maik
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We got a training arena straight out of the box: 8 player free multiplay!
Of course, training sessions would have to be agreed on in advance, but thats only a good thing. Well planned is... and so on...
Btw, does the 8 player game work yet? I haven't tried it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Camo
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Camouflage
XO, Lentolaivue 34
www.muodos.fi/LLv34 (http://www.muodos.fi/LLv34)
"The really good pilots use their superior judgement to keep them out of situations
where they might be required to demonstrate their superior skill."
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Yep, I'm interested.
Gordo
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yep
Very Interested (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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!!! Heater !!!
Shit Happens All The Time
If you have any trouble sounding condescending, find a Unix user to show you how it's done."
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Yes, training arena is a good idea, and I think that some of us vets should dedicate some time in the training arena in whatever your 'specialty' is i.e. bombing, ACM, etc. At least until the game goes "pay" and trainers are designated by HT (if he choses to do so)
For instance, a newbie is asking alot of questions in main arena. Volunteer to take him over to the training arena to help him out with any questions, etc. as to not disrupt the text buffer in main arena (or, go private and have him learn through the school of hard knox! :> ) Of course, HT has to approve the training arena. I think that Firefx should start a potential list of trainers for beta should HT ever get a beta training arena in before "pay" day. I will volunteer my time, but not once we go pay, been there, done that, takes too much of my time.
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
-Rip1- VF-101 Grim Reapers (RET)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977
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Count me in. Where do I sign. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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A word of caution here. IMHO HTC needs to be very careful about selecting trainers. It creates a class of players that see themselves above the average. As heads swell these people can become downright abusive. I have seen this happen at WB. I left WB because of the comments of a trainer on AGW. Others have abused players wives and families verbally on the radio buffer.
I never had lessons. And ive been in the top 10 most of the time(fighters only, I dont buff) since I came to AH. So I dont know that trainers are all that nessesary. Its more of an ego trip, for some, than anything else.
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i would be very interested in this !
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TT : "It creates a class of players that see themselves above the average."
I think this is your perception, most people like trainers, especially those that need them.
TT:"As heads swell these people can become downright abusive."
I've only seen this in one case since V.82 CK days. Again, you judge the rest by one or two individuals. It's a problem with your perception.
TT:"I never had lessons. And ive been in the top 10 most of the time(fighters only, I dont buff) since I came to AH. So I dont know that trainers are all that nessesary. Its more of an ego trip, for some, than anything else."
Well, sure am glad YOU, the center of the universe, caught on quickly, you do know that there are others that are just flying a flight sim for the first time in their virtual lives too, right? Being one of the top 10 does not mean everyone has the same ability as yourself to grapple the ACM so quickly. I know some WB pilots that were in the top 10 (just about every vet I knew held a top ten spot for along time until scores meant nothing but a big visa bill) that would make lousy trainers.
Most trainers do it for the joy of teaching others the art of war, to show them the things that they themselves have learned to do.
TT, do us a favor, don't ever teach anything, it may be an ego thing FOR YOU!
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
-Rip1- VF-101 Grim Reapers (RET)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977
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Yup, Agree with everything said count me in please!!!!
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TT,
I dont think the people who posted are requesting that lofty "Trainer status", that you seem to be opposed to. I can understand your points.
Rather, most of the posts are either people requesting an alternate "training" arena free from interruption where these training sessions can be held or are requesting assistance from vets who have volunteered. Its just a goodwill gesture, not a request for change in status.
-Ding
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 01-18-2000).]
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Its more of an ego trip, for some, than anything else.
Hmmm no. No words left. Nothing to say. Sorry.
Az
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Yes, I would appreciate being taught in a dedicated training arena.
Also, what's a good off-line sim that would help with learning the AH planes? Specifically the P-38? I've done Red Baron 3D, but have to confess that I am new to WWII flying, just recently picked up EAW. I'm a fan of the P-38 (several books, several videos/DVD's), think it's one beautiful bird (the 109 is next, for me). (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I really like the idea of a "historical" arena, but the idea of contributing more directly to the sim and its creators has me over here rather than learning in Warbirds (plus I like the flat fee idea, given what I've heard folks have spent over there).
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what's a good off-line sim that would help with learning the AH planes? Specifically the P-38?
Well mind you that each sim, whether online or offline, has its own very different flight model so there is really no way to get yourself ready for a flight model of the AH P-38 which does not yet exist nor any other plane which could be drastically different than AH's.
Some of the better flight models right now I guess are Warbirds which is free at http://www.iencentral.com/warbirds/index.shtml (http://www.iencentral.com/warbirds/index.shtml) or if you want to buy a good stand alone game, I recommend European Air War or Fighter Squadron:Screaming Demons Over Europe. These are both good games and will have different flight models from the one in AH.
What you will find when you come online for the first time is that there IS NO ENEMY AI in ANY game which will compare to a human opponents skill online. You will find enemies who are as deadly as Erich Von Hartmann online so get ready to die ALOT at first. The more you practice and learn you will begin racking up kills in no time.
-Dingy
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I only advised caution in selecting trainers. Read ripsnorts comments for example. There are a number of people that would make good trainers. Dolomite for one. IMO.
And you are right. I would make a lousy trainer. I fight almost intirely on instinct. I wouldnt know how to teach that.
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Thanx, Dingy, that's what I wanted to know. I'll work on my off-line WWII skills in EAW, which I already have. I basically knew that the FM's would not match up exactly, but I appreciate the "gentle" way you explained it to a newbie so's to make sure! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I didn't want to invest time in a bad one (I understand the FM's in Jane's have received some criticism) and pick up any more bad habits than I have to.
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I would definatly spend time in a TA. "in the student role" Sounds like a Great idea.
PS: I also think domolite would make a great trainer. He helped me in DOA get the nack of the DVA after weeks of getting my arse handed to me. Granted he was the DVA master but you feared him no matter what he was flying, and same is true here now!
[This message has been edited by rosco- (edited 01-19-2000).]
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TT,
Im not sure why your complaining or what your agenda is, but Im doing this of my own accord to help the multitude of New People out there to not be targets. I am just requesting an arena,if there is an interest, Im not setting up training, hiring trainers or anything like that. I just want a place to take someone "if they are having trouble and I can help", that would be free of dozens of people that would interfere.
Im glad that your such a stud pilot that can fly without help, bravo to ya. But please check the tude, as there are 100s more that are not and get whacked daily by the likes of your self.
If we dont help those that need it, they will fast become frustrated and leave. Then HT Loses and we lose. PERIOD.
If you wish I can not do this and just leave it be so that in this "PC" world you wont feel bad because somebody treated you badly once.
With your comments and Tude, I wonder if it was entirely the trainer.
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Rick "Firefox" Scott
VMF-214 / MAG 11
WB ID: firefx
AH ID: FirefxAT
Have Gun Will Travel
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Very interested. I thought that is kinda what the h2h option was suppose to be. It surely could be used for that and is sorely needed as a training aid.
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Ok guys....enough of the flame war. TT didnt mean any harm by what he said, I think what he meant was that HTC should choose carefully who their designated trainers are. I agree with him.
I do not agree, however, with the fact that not everyone would make a good trainer. I think anyone with some level of skill and knowledge can help or train those of less experience. The only limiting factors are willingness to teach and communication ability. I have flown against TT before and hes a heckuva pilot. A great many people could learn from him if he were willing to teach them.
Firefox, I admire your efforts and wish you a whole lot of luck, but as a future trainer, I suggest you dont let the comments of others get under your skin too deep especially when they might be misinterpreted as I think TTs were. Take a breath and relax and think of water off a ducks back (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Ding
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Thanks Dingy, I stand corrected (well some) but I still think he got flamed and hates trainers (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif).
Now, what makes you say Im a future trainer ??
The only thing Im doing is trying to get a place I can take those Im trying to help with out interfernce from the hordes. I tried to make that sound NICE btw (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). But, there is not a way.
Again, Im just trying to help, and the comments were a bit rough. I reread them several times and I just cant see it any other way.
As far as HT and company when/if they do get trainers I would hope it would be very ridged standards to become one. An applicant can apply if the meet minimum qualifications.
"FOR EXAMPLE"
1. Since we are flat rate a minimum number of hours flight time in AH.
2. 3 or more years of flying online flight sims (AH, with AW, WB or H2H). (this is not bashing Falcon, RB, and others but they need to know flight models).
3. Commitment to AH and the AH community through demonstrated actions (IE one or more of the following (Host or run a Scenario, known to be available for online assistance, Webpages, Cons, etc etc)).
4. Recomendations by HT staff.
and on and on. But it needs to be stated what the requirements are. The other brands requirements, I believe are not stated anywhere and trainer applicants have a hard time figuring out "what" it is they need.
Plus, trainers would be under a 90 day period where they would attend training sessions and classes before becoming online.
These are just IDEA's, but that is what I feel. Ive gone beyond the scope of what I orginally started, but wanted you to see where Im coming from.
1. I want to help new guys not get killed.
2. I wondered if any would be interested in having an arena or not avail.
3. Im not performing, nor signging up as a trainer.
4. I love AH and want to see it succeed and to succeed we need to help those that are struggling. As far as Im concerned EVERY good stick out there is a trainer and can offer advice. ITs how you offer it that will stick. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
5. Your right not everyone can be a trainer, but that is up to HT/Pyro et al to decide, heck i want to enjoy the game more than anything and I need good skilled TARGETS (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif).
Im rambling
Later
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Rick "Firefox" Scott
VMF-214 / MAG 11
WB ID: firefx
AH ID: FirefxAT
Have Gun Will Travel
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Now, what makes you say Im a future trainer ??
You asked if anyone would be interested in some training didnt you? You are a trainer in my book (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). Mind you I didnt say anything about you being an "OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED HITECHCREATIONS TRAINER MASTER OF THE UNIVERSE"...just a trainer (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif). I have brought a couple of newbies under my wing and taught them how to takeoff. I was a trainer in that instance.
This is where the confusion is coming into play...there seems to be a misunderstanding in the term "trainer". All of us are using it to loosely mean anyone providing newbies with informal game assistance. I have been a trainer and I believe you Firefox are offering your services to those requiring it.
There is another meaning which seems to get tied in here which mean, "Official AH Trainer". We all believe that these Official Trainers should be the cream of the crop of AH pilot and should be carefully chosen based upon ability, attitude, knowledge and communication ability.
Hope this clears the air. As my boss says, I believe we are in aggressive agreement.
-Ding
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First, thanks to TT and Rosco for the vote of confidence. I have not nearly the flying ability to begin to serve as a trainer, but appreciate the thought. S! Bro's!
Second- I agree with Firefox that there is a need, and that there should be standards that are clearly communicated.
Dingy- Right on! Being a trainer in my mind in part means being a leader, and that involves initiative. Firefox showed initiative when he proposed getting a training program organized. And as TT alluded, it also means dealing with others in a respectful way. Like it or not, trainers in some way become "the face" of the company.
Dingy, you were also right in saying that anyone that wants to help is a trainer, whether they wear the hat or not. Better, these are the friendly faces that make people want to stick around long enough to figure the game out.
There are several in here that are light years ahead of most of us in their knowledge and commitment to WWII history and simulation. I think of Leonid in this category. This is invaluable information for the neophyte.
I believe a trainer should be competent in all aircraft, and should enjoy conveying that information to others, no matter how many times it needs repeating.
I have to disagree with the statement that anyone can teach; as a teacher I can tell you this is not true. We sadly have people in all sims that are master pilots, but could never relate that acquired knowledge in a way that others could accept.
Finally, there are those that master everything about a sim. Soon the gameplay begins to lose the luster it once had. Teaching others may revive the "newness" the game once had, the trainer experiencing vicariously the thrill of the newbie's first successes.
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Dolomite: Such masterful command of the english language, I Bow to your solilaqy (please dont grade MY Papers, Dammit Jim Im a tech writer, not an English Major (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) )
Dingy, thanks we are in total agreement then. I think we should stop using the "TRAINER" tag and just go to Helpful Helpers or somthing like that.
We could also make the Arena the "Practice" arena as they say (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif), just somthing to help these poor guys out.
Shoot I had one guy that I was working with for almost an hour and based off his answers I made wrong assumtions. I then backed off and asked a direct question "YOu do have a JOYSTICK" dont you and not a game pad.
OOPS, game pad only. Now thats BASICS :P
Oh well,
back to basics and back to the point of the original question. If I get a few more Ill ask HT and see what we can get.
Later Ya'll
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Rick "Firefox" Scott
VMF-214 / MAG 11
WB ID: firefx
AH ID: FirefxAT
Have Gun Will Travel
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cc, count me in for 109 school (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Another nice thing about having a training arena would be that those of us who just want a quick one on one fite or duel or whatever could go there, switch sides as necessary and set up the fite.
Last nite was a perfect example of that...Moss was telling me how he was beginning to really like the 51 and was explaining how he thought that he could reverse on a co-E 109 head on with an immediate immeleman after the merge. I then went on to ask how he would do that against a smart 109 who extends after the merge and then begins a spiral climb (Rope a dope). I wanted to see if this tactic would work and so Moss and I decided to auger and try it out, he in his 51, me in the 109. When we got back to the tower, we suddenly realized that one of us would have to switch sides and decided that winging with our little group of Torque, Cat, Jase, Nuttz, Gritz and Terne would be more fun than testing this out.
An arena would let us try this tactic out without having to switch teams.
BTW....DONT TURN THIS THREAD INTO A DISCUSSION OF THE PREVIOUS TACTIC! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Ding
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We are planning to have a training arena and program set up in the next couple of weeks.
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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations
"The side with the fanciest uniforms loses."
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Firefx,
Hiya pal, Well Pyro said they will have a training program up in a few weeks. Anyway I sure know there is a need for it. Was in the arena a little while ago and some newbies were asking some very fundimental <sp> questions and the answers were, shall we say less than helpful!
I sure would like a place where I could invite these guys to go so I could answer there questions and perhaps show them the basics in a less busy area then the main arena. Most of the stuff is like "How do I take off?" "Where do I fly to?" etc. I'm no expert but I think I could handle most of those (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Oh and to the guys that think it's fun to slam the newbies and make them go away, remember if too many go away the whole sim goes away! This is going to be especially true when it goes pay.
Sharky
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Count me in
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Training would be good. As they say practice makes perfect. Being one who has mastered the skies as a jet pilot, AH changes a lot of rules and it's like starting all over again, which is kinda fun.
The fundemental principal here is that us 'newbies' want to learn fast and be up there with the Aces so we can all have fun.
You don't neccessarily have to have a training scenario, you could use the existing setup. Select a field and have the newbies meet there (as far away from the enemy lines as possible). Do your training there. Once a newbie feels confident, he can peel off and maybe do a sortie, take others with him/her. Trainers can follow behind with other 'students and see how they do. We then all learn if they get a hit, or get wasted.
But learn the most frequently used keys, get to know your planes, push them as far as they go and then do your training. Being an ex jet trainer, it can be a pain in the tailend explaining the very basics, when you are helping out in the tactical arena.
In spite of all this, count me in!!!
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yes please m8 im gettin sick of lookin at the ground! any tips would be much appriciated ta M@verik