Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Nash on April 25, 2000, 09:07:00 PM
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However.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Seriously though, I have thought about the problems of late, and wondered myself how to make things clearer as to avoid confusion and misunderstandings there. I was thinking that perhaps a webpage outlining some guidelines might be a good idea. It never occured to me to create an intro window. It's a far superior way to go about it, and I applaud the effort.
Now to the 'however' part (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The window clearly states "Ask before engaging". Can't get any clearer than that right? Here's where it breaks down.
A1 is *still* an FFA field. Upon entering the TA, I asked if y'all were now getting permission to fire before...uhm... firing. Everyone was like, "Naahh - go ahead and engage".
Fine, same 'ol. Right? Problem is now, with this message instructing people to be granted permission, yer gonna get some newbie upping from A1, get his arse shot ta hell - and point directly to the new message window and screaming bloody murder.
Here's the gist as I see it. The ROE (rules of engagement) have evolved and developed as they now stand because it's *natural*. Vulching is looked down upon because it's bad form. Ackstarring is frowned upon for the same reason. etc. etc. AND - People fire on sight because you simply CANNOT expect them to enter into negotiations before every squeeze of the trigger in the middle of a FUR! That's just common sense.
Now the confilct arises here because for whatever reason - THE FFA FIELD IS NOT BEING LEGITIMIZED. *Acknowledge* that it exists! Keep the part about not bothering anyone, keep the part about asking permission. But ADD one line saying "A1 is a free for all - you go there, you take your chances - have fun!" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) The regular FFA guys will police the odd infraction as they always have.
The message window is a GREAT idea, but I think it will only add to the confusuion if what is being implied is not what's actually taking place.
I just can't understand why one single field, an FFA field, cannot be allowed to co-exist within the multitude of other fields that can (and are) being used for training purposes. If you seriously want people to abide by the rules, if you intend to police these rules, then you are effectively closing down the FFA field, as it is simply impossible to abide by them.
[This message has been edited by Nash (edited 04-25-2000).]
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excellent post Nash.
I also vote for ONE FFA field, officially acknowledged and approved by HTC.
Av8r
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add the line:
" Field A1 is the TA's designated free for all field. please refrain from vulching and ackstarring at this field."
please.
the FFA at A1 is great and it sucks that its not being recognized as legit by the establishment.
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"There are no born fighter pilots. Some are a little better than others, thats about it. But I would say time, training, training, training and more training are the key... to any success." -Francis Gabreski
Citabria
=357th Pony Express=
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The problem with 1 being 'designated FFA' is it's the place a person so new they wouldn't know how to change fields would pop up.
(yeah, I don't spend much time in TA, so I don't really have a basis for comment, I'm admitting that up front before anyone gets the impression I think I know what I'm talking about. Just an idle observation (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif))
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Fatty
FAT DRUNK BASTARDS (http://fdb.50megs.com)
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Actually, I think it is a good idea, and here's why; if the guys that fly in the arena want to keep the arena, they will realize that they will have to enforce the code of conduct. What this will mean is that they will help the new person move to another field (telling them how to do it). I don't think this is such a bad idea as it might at first sound.
The other way is to select another base as an FFA. A23 is a very interesting base, has unique terrain features that make for interesting fights, and is so far removed from default bases that it should never be a problem. This won't stop the new guy from fragging people at A1, but that person could be redirected quickly.
Good idea, Nash!
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Heya Kieren,
Ok. We will move the FFA base to A23, and you put a line in the intro window recognizing this field as being FFA. Do we have a deal? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Btw, the fact that you guys care enough to get this intro window implemented at all speaks volumes. Kudos the work you've all done and continue to do. <S>
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LOL-Kieren gave my training base away. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
a23 is a really neat field and will serve well as the FFA base.
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You can count me in on that one. Very good and constructive ideas! Lets get a message at training arena startup that tells everybody that Base 23 is an official "Free for all" base, and A1 is for newbie training purposes.
After all its not only the newbies that needs a trainingarena. Also the aces and the mediocre pilots (like myself (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) needs a place to get warmed up or sharpened up, before entering the main arena. And for me there is no better (or more fun)training than a good rough no-rules-free-for-all game.
Also the training arena serves as a frustration-valve for many players, if ya just cant get things working right in the main arena, or you just have a bad day, then you can go to the TA to get it out of your system.
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GrinBird
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Sorry, Weazel! Like a good fishing hole, never give up a great secret spot. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) All for the greater good, though. It is a place that starts with decent alt and has multiple runways. Those two jagged peaks that border the field will make interesting place to fight.
As for the opening message, Pyro does that. I assume they read the BBS and implement our wishes- at least I know I didn't contact them with the startup message idea. Do we still have a deal? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Yup. I love you guys (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I've posted this points in other thread too...I?ll do it here, too...
Ettiquete of Training arena? easy...I propose to add these 6 points to the message when you come in the TA.Note I say "ADD",not to clean the current message:
1)Dont attack without warning
2)Dont harass people that dont want to fight.
3)Dont bomb the field from wich people are taking off
4)If you want a Free For All, declare it and the field that will be the scenario of it...ALWAYS far from the one used for training.
5) NEVER,unless in a FFA agreed to allow it, VULCH PEOPLE, nor FIRE PEOPLE ON THE RUNWAY
6)And over all, remember that Training people and Trainers have ALL THE RIGHTS that FFA-ing people hasn't. You are to follow and respect Trainer's orders. You are to respect other people's desires of fighting or not, and training or not.
Every one that doesn't follow these easy 6 norms, are to be filmed, or their acts saved in screenshots that will be promptly sended to HTC.
I think these points make clear what will the TA can be and what CANT be,and all explained in 6 easy to understand points. If we all agree I think this can be mailed to HTC for them to put it on TA message.
Any thoughts?
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I would like to toss in a vote for A16/A27 They are very close togather and different countrys. they would be perfect for a fur ball.
Sometimes in the heat of a turn fight, a con pops up in front of you, and you have no way of knowing if he just took off. Also shooting at green guys always makes me feel odd. if there were no time restrictions on country changes, we could keep the sides even. Im not trying to hog another field here, just ellimanate some of the confusion caused by shootiing your own country men.
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Argh... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Two points you make there Ram.
1) Dont attack without warning
My response is and continues to be... that's impossible in a fur.
4) If you want a Free For All, declare it and the field that will be the scenario of
it...ALWAYS far from the one used for training.
My response:
a) yes, we DO want a FFA base.
b) Declare it? Unless you have a guy sitting at the tower constantly hitting refresh on the roster, how are ya supposed to know when someone enters the arena in order to declare it to them?
c) there isn't one base for training, there are like, 63.
Simply saying "A23 is used for a FFA" (or whatever) on the intro window solves every one of these problems. I think we have a consensus on this with both the trainers and the players. No need to go back in and confuse it any more.
Just a status report.... A1 continues to be the FFA feild, people continue to engage without asking. The sooner we can move this to 23 the less chance that the whole thing blows up in our faces again.
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if there were no time restrictions on country changes, we could keep the sides even.
There isn`t any time limit on country change in the T/A.
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Excellent post Nash. Lets hope Pyro see itī, agree on it and make the message ASAP. I tried to fight a little at 23 the other day. You are right it seems to be the perfect place for a rough ffa (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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GrinBird
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Hey All,
I think that Kieren's suggestion is probably the best solution for an "FFA Arena"... it would be easier to, tell a newbie that if they wanted to be in an FFA, go to Axx (where the xx is whatever the "designated" field is). Whoever can then show the person how to use the ".move xx" command. That would solve point 4 in RAM's suggestion, since no one would have to "declare" anything... they could just move to the proper field and hopefully all will be happy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)...
Hope Pyro/HTC will agree to this as well and implement it...
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So you mean:
Keep A1 the FFA field, post no message regarding this, and simply tell the new guy to get the hell away from A1 if he intends to fly in peace, only *after* his presence becomes known to us due to the fact that he's screaming because he just got shot down, despite the current window's instructions to get permission first?
Or do you mean we all decide to move to 23 for the FFA despite no message in the intro window, and if someone *happens* to notice him upping at A1 - we can direct him where to go... or he sees a bunch of cons at 23, decides to move there on his own accord, ups there figuring that this is the field where 'training' is taking place, gets shot down without permission and starts screaming about it?
Nahh man. Just indicate that F23 is the FFA field in the intro window. Players don't automatically UP there, they CHOOSE to go there. And they know what they're getting into when they move there.
People aren't gonna move this thing to 23 onnacount of some discussion on this board. Most don't read it. We need this on the message window.
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Sorry for the confusion Nash...
What I was trying to say was what you had stated in your second last paragraph...
Have the message window indicate F23 is the FFA field, and if the person wants to participate then they can choose to move to that field using the ".move" command...
Or better yet, why not have the opening message window give the user the option to move the FFA field if they want, or stay in F1 if they want to train guns cold? Then instead of having to try to explain the ".move" command (ok it might not be that complicated to explain, but require less reading and typing) to a newbie looking for some fast action, they can just select the FFA option and they will automatically move to the FFA field...
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Like a <.move 23> button right *on* the message window? Nifty enough idea. Possible? If not, I'm happy with just the message.
Pyro, if you're listening - I think we've come to a solution on this. Can we get some feedback from you? This problem occurs nightly.