Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: thebest1 on January 03, 2005, 03:06:31 PM
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Ammo ticker thingy. I dont think the planes ad that in WW2
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But us dweebs here need it :D
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I'm pretty sure some of the LW planes had 'em. But digital read-out is more info than they woulda had. Switching the current read-out to a little bar-graph for mg/cannon would have the desired effect.
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yes some planes had actual ammo counters, others did not.
if HT were to Coad them accurate you think anyone would fly the disadvantaged plane (other than a sortie or 2 for a "challange)?
any plane without an ammo counter would be like the hurri 1 or the 202, almost never used.
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Originally posted by DoKGonZo
...Switching the current read-out to a little bar-graph for mg/cannon would have the desired effect.
...and what effect would that be? To have more folks afraid to engage because they might be low on/out of ammo?
TOD, prolly behind ya 100%, but for the MA, not so much.
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Originally posted by Furious
...and what effect would that be? To have more folks afraid to engage because they might be low on/out of ammo?
TOD, prolly behind ya 100%, but for the MA, not so much.
I'd like to have the ability to switch such functionality on for ToD, SEA, CT, and so on.
And what's wrong with not engaging if you think you're low on ammo? That seems kind of logical. And for a lot of planes, the sign to stop shooting and start running is pretty clear ... either cannons or a bank of MG's will stop firing.
Frankly, for 75% of the pile-its I see in the MA, running out of ammo is the least of their worries.
All I'm proposing is replace that digital read-out with a nice analog bar graph. Something with some fuzz on it.
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The number of people engaging doesn't change at all. The number of lame-prettythang 400yd+ spraying, however, is significantly reduced. At least, that's what the IL2/FB experience tells us.
Sometimes I find it really strange to see so many people thinking of the average MA folk as some retarded or brain-dead person. Increase in number of switches or procedures, or taking off a few features do not make them dumbfounded or something, you know.
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Actually ... I thought of another cool thing that could be done. Show the digial read-outs only when your gear is in contact and the engine is off. So when you land and shut down the engine, you can see just how many rounds you had left when you decided it was time to get outa Dodge. When the engine's on and gear isn't touching ground, you get the bar graphs.
That way players can get a good feel for where on that bar graph their last 40 rounds of cannon really are.
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We don't need digital counts of exact number of rounds remaining. AW had a gauge 0-100%. What's wrong with that for AH?
OTOH, a gauge is a gauge, exact count or not, so why bother to change it?
For me, no big deal, I fly the same plane all the time and know how many rounds is 100%, 50%, 25%, etc. But those that fly different planes all the time would have to be more farmiliar with how many rounds those percentages represent.
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Originally posted by JB73
any plane without an ammo counter would be like the hurri 1 or the 202, almost never used.
Meh, I'd still fly the Yak.
I wouldn't mind seeing the Ammo counters go away, or become arena-setting-dependant.
-Sik
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In Air Warrior we had a little gauge. Note the ammo counter in the upper right. It reads in percentage of ammo left. You had to know at what percentage your cannon rounds ran out and all you had left was machine gun rounds.
I still like the AW gauge package.
(http://airwarrior.afkamm.co.uk/AWhumour/kermit.jpg)
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I would very much prefer to have no counter at all and just the analog device on the German fighters that had them.
I really see no advantage to having the ammo counters. It is one design decision in AH (and WB) that I never understood. There are others I disagree with, but I at least understand the reason for them.
In sims I've played that lacked the ammo counters it was never a problem to become familiar with my prefered kite's firing duration. It is simply another, easy, skill.
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ma needs to satisfy many skill levels, including the new comers, so i doubt that the counter would go away, but as dok said in ct sea ectra, that would be a cool place to see some realism. Im all for the usual game hud thats in il2, why butcher the guages? would like to be able to toggle them off. Or at least have the option to turn off the amo counter in h2h.
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Doesn't make sense.
Newbies or people with different skill levels are all the same in IL2/FB. Heck, considering the MMOG aspect of AH, the average pilots of AH are much more skilled than the average pilots of IL2/FB.
And yet, not a single one of them complain about having no ammo counters. They simply learn, and adapt to it as a part of the game, and come to accept the difference in features between planes. Just like some planes can use combat flaps or others have gyro sights, some planes have ammo indicator bars. That's all there is to it.
The only people who actually complain about ammo counters are people who are already used to them - like for instance, an AH gamer who recently started playing IL2 series, or etc etc.
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If an analog ammo meter was good enough for dumb ole AW players 15 years ago, certainly it's not too "difficult" for AH players today.
And ... on a semi-related matter ... anyone know just how fine-grained the fire control on external ord was on WW2 fighters? Right now we're firing rockets as singles and dropping 1000 pounders from one wing while leaving one hanging on the other. Somehow that don't feel right ... but I don't have data on hand about it. (Yeah ... I know just how popular changing the external ord controls to "all at once" mode would be ... hehe.)
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For me ammo counters would be better as historically installed.
I would move all gun settings to a single place........(maybe when setting convergence) such they are ac properties and not general properties.
Add the ability to mark clip at a near empty point for each gun with a diferent tracer content.
Changes tracers on/off to tracers %.
Then we could set convergence, tracers (%), tracers clip warning for each gun set on each aircraft in the hanger.
........ and de clutter the cockpit with inaccurate and (some would say) gamey "crutches"
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Originally posted by Kweassa
Doesn't make sense.
Newbies or people with different skill levels are all the same in IL2/FB. Heck, considering the MMOG aspect of AH, the average pilots of AH are much more skilled than the average pilots of IL2/FB.
And yet, not a single one of them complain about having no ammo counters. They simply learn, and adapt to it as a part of the game, and come to accept the difference in features between planes. Just like some planes can use combat flaps or others have gyro sights, some planes have ammo indicator bars. That's all there is to it.
The only people who actually complain about ammo counters are people who are already used to them - like for instance, an AH gamer who recently started playing IL2 series, or etc etc.
Actually i was looking at this sight and saw no ammo counters
http://www.aeronautics.ru/archive/wwii/books/cockpit/small/page_01.htm
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Alot of the German aircraft had ammo counters, I noticed the Trop 109 cockpit was missing them and had a modern gauge in its place.
I've got mixed feelings about the lack and use of ammo counters and numerical displays. If HTC would enable player controled tracer round use and availability I would recommend getting rid of the displays. Until that happens, I think it is a bad idea...
(and before someone tells me I can turn tracers on and off, I'm refering to having a greater/lesser number of tracers in the belt or having a greater number towards the end of the belt)
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I could care less either way ... ammo counters or Tilt's suggestion.
Tell me again ... what are the benefits, and what are we gaining by eliminating the ammo counters ?
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I really like Tilt's idea. Then you could tailor your tracer set up to your liking ... including no tracers except for the last 10% of ammo so you know when to scoot.
What would it add?
- I've seen several requests to make tracers part of the load-out config instead of a global setting, so this would answer that request.
- It'd be more realistic in terms of representing what it was like to fly in combat 60+ years ago.
- It'd make so many "experts" whine. The humor derived from the complaints about how much "harder" the game is when you can't count every round of ammo in the magazine is worth the trip alone.
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Knowing how many rounds you have to the exact bullet has nothing to do with 'skill' level.
I don't play AH any more but I think the ammo counter just looks like crap. For that reason alone I hope someday HT gets rid of them, but in the past he said they will remain.
If any of you play FB/AEP/PF you know that even the ammo counters on the German planes are difficult to guess at how much ammo you have left.
I fly mostly with 3 to 4 other guys regularly only in the 109. The lack of an accurate ammo count actually adds to the excitement in some of the dogfights.
The other night we were on a server with a furball of about 20 planes (109s, 190s vrs. B-25s, Il2s Yak 9s and La-5FNs) We each had a few kills and rtb'ing when were bounced by several La-5FNs (my track showed 3 after the fact). We killed all but one who was hanging back doing the hit and run like hell routine. Diving high speed pass, run like hell then zoom into space to repeat.
The only way we can kill this guy is if we get him to commit to killing one of us. We want to kill him not just avoid him. The plan was to trick him into committing then drag him for our wingman.
Well the trick and drag worked and as I closed to kill the La-5FN I told my wingman to go up.
There he was, an La-5FN hanging in my site and when I squeezed the trigger 1 cannon round flies out then nothing...
I was out of ammo, the ammo counter showed a sliver which could mean anything from 1 to 4 rounds. The la-5 series in iFB/AEP/PF is extremely resistant to german ammo. I was in an early G-6 with the 3cm cannon. Typically an average of 2 well placed hits will destroy them.
I hit the La-5FN on the engine and he bellowed black smoke. This wasn't the spot I wanted, I was aiming for his canopy from about 100m away. After he got hit he dove out and ran. I followed peppering him with 7.6mm but I had to let him. I coudn't catch him otd in my G-6.
After intense dogfights part of the excitement in trying to get out and home is wondering if you have enough ammo to deal with the one or two bad guys you might run into. Believe there are always 1 or 2 guys orbiting the egress waiting to jump those rtb'ing.
I guess this type of thing wont apply to most AH players because they tend to avoid the fight. If they never fire their guns they never need to worry about how much ammo they have... :p
But seriously I think they are an eye sore and for that reason alone I hope they vanish. I don't think it would matter one bit in terms of ma game play. In fact you may end up with more timid flyers concerned about whether they have the 1000 rounds or so left to spray and pray.
It may have a small imapct of ToD and events but who knows.
How about getting rid of the damage list while in flight instead?
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Originally posted by SlapShot
Tell me again ... what are the benefits, and what are we gaining by eliminating the ammo counters ?
Get rid of the game and bring in the simulation!
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Originally posted by thebest1
Get rid of the game and bring in the simulation!
If thats the case, then the list of what needs to change would extend from the east coast to the west coast.
I do like Tilt's idea tho ... if the counters were removed.
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can we still keep the ammo counter but move that ammo/ord couter out of the cockpit to top left of the screen? (in my view... that counter can be toggled on-off @ flight preferences)
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Can we have the beautifiully rendered cockpits from AW ?
The mossie one was a peach as I recall. Plus they had six checking mirrors.;)