Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Happy1 on January 06, 2005, 11:52:54 AM
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What really happened to cause the demise of Major McGuire, the 2nd highest P38 ace? Find out at:
http://www.aerothentic.com/history/articles/McGuire.htm
Enjoy the on-going speculation/controversy.
Cheers,
Happy1 :D
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Good Read
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Basically, he has no clue as to how McGuire died. If you really want a more detailed report that pretty much confirms Weaver's side of the engagement, ask Widewing or Savage to post the crash report.
ack-ack
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Very interesting article Happy1 :aok
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I know, his auto-retract flaps went up and he spun out.
Jests towards HTC aside, it is unfortunate the two most successful aces (and P38 aces at that) didn't live to see old age. :(
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It got me thinking that it might be fun/interesting to try and recreate the scenario in AH. Take a top of the line AH38 stick, and three decent to above average 38 sticks, give em full fuel and tanks and have them fly it against a good stick in a Ki84 and a very good stick in a Zeke (standing in for the Oscar)
Throw in a cloud deck and fly it at low level with the fight on once the 38s spot the Zeke. Ki 84 can't enter until the fights gotten slow and turning.
Don't let the 38s drop tanks until the Ki-84 enters the fight as it seems clear that the remaining 3 38s did drop tanks eventually.
I wonder how long one of the 38 experts, like AKAK, Delerium etc could keep turning at 300 feet with a 38 still lugging mostly full drop tanks.
I'll fly the number 4 38 since I'm average in the 38 at best :)
Dan/Slack
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The American Fighter Aces ablum says the following in McGuire's biography.
"Attacking a Zeke at tree-top altitude over Los Negros Island on 7 January 1945, he entered a high-speed stall and crashed into the jungle."
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Originally posted by Guppy35
It got me thinking that it might be fun/interesting to try and recreate the scenario in AH. Take a top of the line AH38 stick, and three decent to above average 38 sticks, give em full fuel and tanks and have them fly it against a good stick in a Ki84 and a very good stick in a Zeke (standing in for the Oscar)
Throw in a cloud deck and fly it at low level with the fight on once the 38s spot the Zeke. Ki 84 can't enter until the fights gotten slow and turning.
Don't let the 38s drop tanks until the Ki-84 enters the fight as it seems clear that the remaining 3 38s did drop tanks eventually.
I wonder how long one of the 38 experts, like AKAK, Delerium etc could keep turning at 300 feet with a 38 still lugging mostly full drop tanks.
I'll fly the number 4 38 since I'm average in the 38 at best :)
Dan/Slack
I would love to recreate something like that and other missions like the hunt for Yamamoto. It gives us a chance to play virtual historical detective.
I don't think I'd last very long with full drop tanks on the deck in a turn fight with a Zeke or a Ki-84. But if something like this is recreated in the game, I'd be willing to break out my dual throttle and see if I can get my plane to stall like his did.
ack-ack
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What is this "dual throttle" of which you speak, Ack-Ack? Is it supported by AH?
Cheers,
Scherf
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Originally posted by Guppy35
It got me thinking that it might be fun/interesting to try and recreate the scenario in AH. Take a top of the line AH38 stick, and three decent to above average 38 sticks, give em full fuel and tanks and have them fly it against a good stick in a Ki84 and a very good stick in a Zeke (standing in for the Oscar)
Throw in a cloud deck and fly it at low level with the fight on once the 38s spot the Zeke. Ki 84 can't enter until the fights gotten slow and turning.
Don't let the 38s drop tanks until the Ki-84 enters the fight as it seems clear that the remaining 3 38s did drop tanks eventually.
I wonder how long one of the 38 experts, like AKAK, Delerium etc could keep turning at 300 feet with a 38 still lugging mostly full drop tanks.
I'll fly the number 4 38 since I'm average in the 38 at best :)
Dan/Slack
That would be pretty fun I'd have to say.
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OK so how do we get it set up? I'd love to see how a virtual McGuire's last flight would turn out
Dan/Slack
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Maybe we should float this idea past the AH Scenario team and see if it's doable.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Scherf
What is this "dual throttle" of which you speak, Ack-Ack? Is it supported by AH?
Cheers,
Scherf
Old Suncom F-15 dual throttle that I have.
ack-ack
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I'd say this was a good idea if all the "variables" were true to real life. But as it is, any outcome would be subjective at best and in no way could be used as a possible recreation.
That being said, it sounds fun as long as that is what it's taken for...fun
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Let me know, I'd be up for it too... I have the CH Throttle Quadrant and can control each engine's throttle and RPMs.
Come to think of it, we really can't recreate it accurately secondary as the cream of the Japanese air assets had already been killed in January '45. Most of the AH flyers have alot more hours and experience than the Japanese flyers did in Jan '45, heck, probably more than the Allied flyers as well.
However, with enough alt, I think a good team of 38s might be able to pull it off but with a complete rewrite of history using the vertical after a brief dive to set up a good cherry pick.
Oh, and ignore what Rust says... I'm no good in the P38 or anything else.
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Originally posted by Delirium
Let me know, I'd be up for it too... I have the CH Throttle Quadrant and can control each engine's throttle and RPMs.
Come to think of it, we really can't recreate it accurately secondary as the cream of the Japanese air assets had already been killed in January '45. Most of the AH flyers have alot more hours and experience than the Japanese flyers did in Jan '45, heck, probably more than the Allied flyers as well.
However, with enough alt, I think a good team of 38s might be able to pull it off but with a complete rewrite of history using the vertical after a brief dive to set up a good cherry pick.
Oh, and ignore what Rust says... I'm no good in the P38 or anything else.
The German and Japanese Air (and Naval Air) Forces didn't use the "Tour of Operations" process that the Allies did, and as a consequence a lot of Axis pilot racked up staggering hours when compared to their Allied counterparts.
Hansgeorg Bätcher logged 658 Bomber missions for instance. Adolf Galland once said, "Our pilots and crews fought until they died."
This of course meant that when those assets died the Frontline training operation reduced incremently in quality as the experienced pilots were whittled away.
Saburo Sakai being drafted back into Ops despite only having one eye is an example from the Japanese side of the spectrum.
I reckon it would be a good mix, as the Japanese crews in PNG and the Phillipines were still of reasonable quality by Japanese standards.
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Interestingly enough tonite, Delirium, Silat and myself were flying 100 fuel 38s with rockets and bombs.
We ran into Fiction and his Spit V and my first thought was "Tommy McGuire" We tried to keep the ord, but both Silat and I had to lose it to stay alive. Of course Tommy McGuire aka Del, kept his and stayed in too. We got Fiction finally but it took three of us under the circumstances with the full load. To try and keep that flopping Spit V in sight was tough.
Fiction had his revenge though as he got me after re-upping. Not that killing me is much of an accomplishment :)
Dan/Slack