Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Reschke on January 06, 2005, 01:31:48 PM
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I have a guy here at work who has one and would like to sell it for $1400.
(http://www.specialoperations.com/Weapons/Features/M4/m4.jpg)
The price includes 2 30 round magazines, firm grip for front, laser sight w/ attachment, and flashlight w/attachment, also includes the flip up rear sight, gun has full auto, semi auto and 3 round burst capabilities.
I don't know a heck of a lot about the prices of this sort of gun but it seems to be a good price for this gun.
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If it is a legal machine gun thats a great price. Have you done all the ATF paperwork to own a machine gun? What about the state paperwork?
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I searched and it's $200 just to transfer ownership? Yikes.
I also found something interesting, might be ontopic.
Crime with Legally Owned Machine Guns
"In 1995 there were over 240,000 machine guns registered with the BATF. (Zawitz, Marianne,Bureau of Justice Statistics, Guns Used in Crime [PDF].) About half are owned by civilians and the other half by police departments and other governmental agencies (Gary Kleck, Targeting Guns: Firearms and Their Control, Walter de Gruyter, Inc., New York, 1997.)
Since 1934, only one legally owned machine gun has ever been used in crime, and that was a murder committed by a law enforcement officer (as opposed to a civilian). On September 15th, 1988, a 13-year veteran of the Dayton, Ohio police department, Patrolman Roger Waller, then 32, used his fully automatic MAC-11 .380 caliber submachine gun to kill a police informant, 52-year-old Lawrence Hileman. Patrolman Waller pleaded guilty in 1990, and he and an accomplice were sentenced to 18 years in prison. The 1986 'ban' on sales of new machine guns does not apply to purchases by law enforcement or government agencies."
I didn't even think you could own them. They sure look fun.
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My dad has his class 3 license and can transfer the gun to me. What I would do is pay him and then he would hold it for me till my paperwork gets cleared for ownership. I have been told that I will have to modify the gun to current BATF standards after taking delivery. Such as changing the collapsible stock and automatic fire options. I haven't done much other than apply for the license for these types of weapons.
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If it is a legal machine gun thats a great price. Have you done all the ATF paperwork to own a machine gun? What about the state paperwork?
full auto,,are you sure? didnt think they made auto ar 15' or m4's anymore,,if its from the military it would be maybe 3 round burst i would think,,but i could be wrong,,...heck i got a freind who is a security gaurd at a nuclear reactor,,and he carries a m4 from the goverment,,its semi auto,,full rock and rolls were deemed inaccurate and waste of ammo
for a colt,,ummmm not too bad,,i would keep your eyes open!! because there is no such thing as preband anymore,, so all the guns that were worth a bunch are not as much anymore,,because preban is out the window right now,even ak's have dropped down to 100 bucks a gun for china models in some places,,and m14 assalt rugers have dropped to about 600bucks,,lol fully decked out,, before the preband ended they were 1,400 bucks
but it is a colt,,i would look on colt prices,,because colt did stop selling to the public,,so it mite be worth what he wants,,i would research it on guns of america online
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M4=crap
Unless you are using the longer barrel, and firing at very close range, the bullet will not have enough velocity to fragment and tumble inside a persons body.
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What I would pay = 0
But its prolly no suprise to anyone that I don't need an assault rifle
:)
A good hunting rifle would be more interesting tho. My best friend is trying to get me to get a license and hunt with him. Im not 100% put off by the idea of it so maybe ill take that license this fall.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Creamo, that info sounds right. Legally owned firearms are rarely a problem. However what that statistic doesn't tell you is how many legally owned machineguns have been stolen and used to commit crimes.
Shack.
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Why buy an assault rifle when you can get them for free in the military, free amo, free magazines, free amo pouches...
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I challenge you guys to find stats on stolen machine guns used in crimes here.
Go ahead.
I'll wager this would be an extremely rare situation....EXTREMELY.
You've watched Bonnie and Clyde a few too any times.
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Originally posted by Toad
I challenge you guys to find stats on stolen machine guns used in crimes here.
Go ahead.
I'll wager this would be an extremely rare situation....EXTREMELY.
You've watched Bonnie and Clyde a few too any times.
Even if it wasn't rare, who gives a crap? Are you going to ban everything that might be used illegally?
Far more cars are used illegally every year than guns.
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I'm not exactly sure what GS is getting at... people steal machine guns to commit crimes I think which is to ridiculous too comment on.
There was some stats on that page. Guy was writing a book about it.
Crime Involving Illegally Owned Machine Guns
In 1980, when Miami's homicide rate was at an all-time high, less than 1% of all homicides involved machine guns. (Miami was supposedly a "machine gun Mecca" and drug trafficking capital of the U.S.) Although there are no national figures to compare to, machine gun deaths were probably lower elsewhere. Kleck cites several examples:
Of 2,200 guns recovered by Minneapolis police (1987-1989), not one was fully automatic.
A total of 420 weapons, including 375 guns, were seized during drug warrant executions and arrests by the Metropolitan Area Narcotics Squad (Will and Grundie counties in the Chicago metropolitan area, 1980-1989). None of the guns was a machine gun.
16 of 2,359 (0.7%) of the guns seized in the Detroit area (1991-1992) in connection with "the investigation of narcotics trafficking operations" were machine guns.
Maybe the drug dealers aren't good thieves and couldn't get a machine gun?
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That's the point, Creamo.
These guys don't have a clue but they pontificate anyway.
Also, your stats don't indicate if any of the "machine guns" were legally held. In all probability, some were.
Bottom line is these guys are "ugh... guns bad!" types.
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That seems to be one hell of a price for any class 3. The semis are still going for around $800.
Charon
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Are you sure it's full auto? That price is VERY low for a full auto M4 that is pre-auto ban (not to be confused with the pre-bradybill ban). If the gun was post-auto ban then the price is VERY high since the gun is actually illegal to buy or sell.
If it is a semi-auto, then the price is more subjective. Some would say it was worth it, but I could build one exactly like it for less than $1000.
P.S. Tell him the "laser sight" isn't necessarily a bonus. Get a red-dot on it and it will do better.
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Sounds like a steal at $1400.00
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Don't really have a need for one.
It would be exspensive to shoot even if you reloaded.
And after you have shot up one old car you have up them all.
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Originally posted by wombatt
Don't really have a need for one.
It would be exspensive to shoot even if you reloaded.
And after you have shot up one old car you have up them all.
Why reload? I think the M4 fires .223 ammuntion which last time I checked (been awhile) was cheap enough to make reloading the spent cases a waste of time.
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Originally posted by GScholz
*lol* I'm a shooter myself.
Ah, OK then. You're just talking out your vent again obviously. Because you don't know jack about "stolen machine gun crime".
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Originally posted by Elfie
Why reload? I think the M4 fires .223 ammuntion which last time I checked (been awhile) was cheap enough to make reloading the spent cases a waste of time.
I dunno maybe just to noisy and jumps all around spry and pray shooting aint no fun to me.
Say your from Broofield huh?
LOL I'm and old Englewood guy myself Cherry Creek High class of 76
hows weather up there?
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heh it's colder than crap right now. I live near 120th and Federal.
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Originally posted by Toad
Ah, OK then. You're just talking out your vent again obviously. Because you don't know jack about "stolen machine gun crime".
Why do you guys even respond to the Amerihaters with anything except laughter? It's the same crap in every thread. They'll take the opposite side of any issue you bring up, just for the opportunity to cry.
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Originally posted by GScholz
However what that statistic doesn't tell you is how many legally owned machineguns have been stolen and used to commit crimes.
So, you're just talking out your vent again obviously. Because you don't know jack about "stolen machine gun crime" and you can't find any facts to support your implication about "legally owned machineguns have been stolen and used to commit crimes".
In short, your just tossing another red herring.
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To be fair, the guy I quoted was making a book on the subject, and it seems he was clear about the 1%, and 0.7% figures on illegal machine guns. If one were to confiscate a stolen mg from a legal owner, I'd say that covers it as being illegal.
How accurate his figures are I dunno, but it's such an impossibly small number, it's clear machine guns are insignificant in crime no matter how you would try to inflate the facts or spin it. It doesn't tell the whole story GS, I admit, because there is no story to tell about stealing legal mg's to commit crimes.
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ya, could you please tell me about how many full autos are used in crimes? I mean the ones that were legal in the first place.
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Originally posted by Toad
I challenge you guys to find stats on stolen machine guns used in crimes here.
Go ahead.
I'll wager this would be an extremely rare situation....EXTREMELY.
You've watched Bonnie and Clyde a few too any times.
The only one I remember was the two bozo's in California shooting at cops on the news. I think they robbed a bank or something.
They either had M16's or AK's.
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Originally posted by Drunky
The only one I remember was the two bozo's in California shooting at cops on the news. I think they robbed a bank or something.
They either had M16's or AK's.
They had a ton of fire power. The cops had to raid a local gun shop to match their fire power.
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However, in the Bank of America/Hollywood incident the automatic weapons that the robbers used were NOT stolen. So they weren't in the class of "legally owned machineguns have been stolen and used to commit crimes."
They were, however, illegally transferred.
Circumstances
On February 28, 1997, Matasareanu and Phillips tried to rob a Bank of America branch office in North Hollywood, California. While trying to escape, the two men engaged in a shootout with police. Though vastly outnumbered, the two men—armed with automatic weapons and wearing body armor—successfully held off law enforcement personnel for hours before being shot and killed by police.
How Firearm(s) Acquired
The weapons were originally bought at a gun show and then illegally resold to Matasareanu and Phillips
Where'd They Get Their Guns? (http://www.vpc.org/studies/wgun970228.htm)
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Originally posted by GScholz
Creamo, that info sounds right. Legally owned firearms are rarely a problem. However what that statistic doesn't tell you is how many legally owned machineguns have been stolen and used to commit crimes.
Im no expert on the subject but wouldnt it be a pretty safe bet to think that most gun crimes are commited with illegally owned/stolen guns?
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Gunlaws change everywhere. For the good and for the bad. Just a little diffrence: the bad guys arent effected of any law changes, they just get their stuff anyway.
Now, in Sweden, they have just changed the laws to the owners of fullautos. TO keep your license permit, you need to store the guns in a safty wich is in security class 3 (Storage 100.000$ cash
covered by incurence).
Theese are real monsters!!!, Hughe and very Expensive. But you need to get one, because if you dont have it: Goverment will take your gun and destroy it. You will get about 100$ for your gun.
Got me one safty that will cover the amount of 2,5 million$ cash by insurance at the weight of 6.5 metric ton. A real monster, but actully: a bargin.
My guns will be safe, for a while longer.
Crabofix
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Originally posted by Elfie
heh it's colder than crap right now. I live near 120th and Federal.
Yeah my dad lives in Parker he siad it's kinda chilly.
I miss it up there.
Going to daniels park and getting chitfaced LOL.
Do people still go out there?
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Thanks to those that gave the info I was looking for. To the rest of you guys I hate this started turning into a Ameritrash/Eurotrash fest to see whose minds are duller than unsharpened butter knives.
:p :rofl :aok
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Where do they make sharpened butter knives? Next to the sharpened spoons line?
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Just did a little research on the sharpened butter knives and they are only made in England...excuse me Great Britain where men can run around stabbing people with them.
As for the M4 it seems to be a fair price according to the ones listed on GunsAmerica.com. There are several on there with collapsible stocks like this one that don't have near the "extra" goodies and they are listing for $1100-$2000 and even a couple for over $3000 with quite a few in the sub $1000 area. I just might head to the bank tomorrow and then own this long enough to play with it and then sell it. Besides I have several hunting rifles and shotguns and a few thousand rounds of .223 and the 5.56 ammo sitting in some boxes at my dads house. Along with a few thousand rounds to go with the M-60 that he has as well. Might make for a nice shooting afternoon down by the river one day this coming summer.
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Got me one safty that will cover the amount of 2,5 million$ cash by insurance at the weight of 6.5 metric ton. A real monster, but actully: a bargin.
Holy ****. and I though my 300 lb safe was a monster. (well, it was for me and a buddy to haul into place:))
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IIRC Phillips shot himself in the head. Mataseranu was killed by an elderly man who's truck he was trying to hijack. fortuitously no law enforcement personnel or civilians died in the incident. I am a staunch supporter of law enforcement but LAPD never quite seem to get the grasp of situations. Inspite of having a first rate response team they took a very long time subduing these morons. The weapons were not originally full auto they had the sears ground down making them an illegal conversions. Law and order prevailed that day.