Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Dawggus on October 27, 2001, 01:52:00 PM
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Hiya Guys and Gals
Yep, it's the Dawg, <BFD>, I finally decided to move to the land of milk and honey ;). Listen, I drug my trusty FWa8 with me, and it's a real beast in here (or maybe I'm just still a real dweeb).
Regardless, I'm sticking with my AW ride, and need all the tips and tricks yall can send my way! The Nightmares are about to double their size in AH folks, good news for the Rooks, and eventually some good competition for you other bastages ;).
Cya Up!
Dawg, aka BF
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Hmm, does anyone even fly the FW in AH? ;). Hehe, input please, I need input ... I'm Dieynnnn out here!!!
Cya Up!
Daw
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My squad is a "190" squadron. The a8 is probrably the best 190 in the game. I haven't played AW so I have no idea on how it was modelled there.
in ah strong points are
1. good stable hi speed platform
2. ammo load
3. roll rate
just keep your speed up and bnz your arse off. However you are not totally helpless against planes with better "e". Scissor ,rolling scissors, snap rolls and barrel rolls will allow you to escape a immediate threat.
however its best to stay high be conservative with your "e" state to maintain your advantage.
If at any time you are co "e" with the bad guys consider the advantage lost. This is the same with all 190s. You wont find many 1v1's in the arena especially with the higher numbers. So you will need what "e" you can maintain a reasonable expectation for escaping. As you get comfortable you will be able to push it.
It handles poorly above 20k above 23k its useless even against a manuvering buff.
Wilbuz Kirin Ram are probrably the guys to hook up with in the main to get full undrstanding of the a8.
Its a great ride...........
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Hptm. Wotan Wubke
Rot 3 fw-190d9 Dora
(http://personal.jax.bellsouth.net/jax/t/y/tyr88/rot3jv44.jpg)
Im Auftrage der Reichsbahn
(By order of the State Railway)
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Hum. I fly the 190A8 with some frequency, I suppose. I really enjoy flying the plane, but it is rather unsuitable for fighting in the gangbang arena. Whoops, I said that out loud. What I meant was it is totally unsuitable for flying in the MAIN arena, of course.
I'll list the pros of the 190A8 as I see them, followed by the cons, again as I see them.
Pros-
1. Superb firepower. Unbelievable firepower.
2. Roll rate. It rolls very well.
3. Handling in general. The plane feels light on the controls, and is generally very easy and nice to fly, as long as you don't get below 200mph in it. Around 200mph, the controls feel slightly mushy, and the plane will stall at the drop of a hat.
Cons.
1. Extremely poor turning (rate and radius). This is not true at high speed, at 350mph or higher the 190 will turn inside of a Spitfire. Below 300 mph, the 190a8 is easily one of the worst 3 turners in the game.
2. Acceleration. Slow, compared with what you will be fighting in the MA. Over 50% of the planes you see will be N1K2's, P51's, SpitIX's and LA7's. All of the above accelerate much, MUCH better than the 190a8.
3. Climb rate. Abysmal, in my opinion. With the 500kg centerline bomb mounted, this plane is lucky to break 1500fpm. Even without the bomb mounted the climb rate is no great shakes.
4. Top speed. Again, slow, compared to what you will be facing in the MA. The N1K2 is at most 5-10mph slower than the 190a8 at typical MA altitudes (below 10k). If you are below 300mph, and the N1K starts out faster or the same speed as you, you are dead. You may as well bail, unless you enjoy making them waste their ammo. The P51 is about 25mph faster, the La7 is around 45mph faster.
Well, as you can see, you have picked an "inferior" plane to work with. However, since you have experience flying in Airwarrors, you at least have a leg up on the other newbies that might be fooled into getting in this plane. The good news is that of the 50% your opponents that the "Big 4" make up, you really only have to worry about the P51 and the LA7. And even in those cases you probably only have to worry about the P51 about 25% of the time, because 75% (at least) of P51 drivers in the MA couldn't find their bellybutton with both hands and a candle. The La7, unfortunately for A8 drivers, is a good enough plane that no matter how stupid the la7 pilot is, his plane will only let him lose maybe 1 in 10.
Anyway, as far as advice in the plane.. I never flew Airwarriors, so I don't know how the 190A8 flew in that game. In Aces High, the most obvious piece of advice is to never let your guard down. Never engage any enemy that is higher than you are. Always leave yourself a way out of a fight (in this you are lucky, because the 190A8 DOES dive very well. You will have to worry about a Spit or N1K for perhaps the first 5 seconds, but after that they will not keep up with you).
You will have to rely on snapshots, and you will have to get good at them, because you will not get many opportunities for tracking shots, nor can your plane manuever with just about any enemy plane you care to pick. Of course, with the awesome firepower that the 190A8 packs, a snapshot will USUALLY do the job on an enemy plane. I personally use the 4x20mm loadout instead of the 2x20+2x30mm, because the ammo loadout means you can keep firing all of your cannons for a much longer time (plus the 2 cannons have different trajectories, which makes it tough to hit sometimes). My advice is NEVER take only the 2 cannon loadout, if you want to fire 2 cannons hop in a Dora, she will get the job done much better. Someone worked it out that you only get a 5% increase in performance by dropping the outboard cannon (compared to a 50% increase in firepower by keeping them), so it isn't worth it in my opinion.
NathBDP, Martell0, Kirin.. all of these guys are very good 190a8 sticks. You can contact them ingame (or me as well), and I'm sure they'd be happy to help you out.
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I wouldn't say A8 inferior. One vs. one against most of the planes it sucks but in furball or with a wingman it shines. Below 10k it's very nice, just needs to keep the speed up like all heavy b&z:ers.
Still think A5 or dora are better fighters vs. other fighters.
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Originally posted by janjan:
I wouldn't say A8 inferior. One vs. one against most of the planes it sucks but in furball or with a wingman it shines. Below 10k it's very nice, just needs to keep the speed up like all heavy b&z:ers.
Still think A5 or dora are better fighters vs. other fighters.
Hehe.. Janjan.. not to seem like an ass. But I'll respond to this.
I wouldn't say A8 inferior
One vs. one against most of the planes it sucks
That second qoute is my definition of inferior. I can take a A6M up with a wingman and we'll both do better than if we were flying alone. I can take a c202 up with a wingman, and we'll both do better than if we were alone. I can also take an La7, a SpitIX, a N1K2, or a P51D (all planes that will murder an A8 (except maybe the P51)), and guess what? We will STILL both do better than if we were flying alone. Furthermore, we'd ALSO do better than if we were flying 190A8's. The plane is not a viable choice for flying in the main arena.
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I used to fly the A8 exclusively til the Dora came out...
After reading thru the thread I'd say these fellows summed up how to drive the WÜRGER.
Try using a Hi YO-YO to defeat a plane besting your turn radius. Climb slightly roll away from the direction that the enemy is turning, nose over, and roll towards the target, it grants a snapshot, and allows for extending away granting separation to maintain advantage as well as allowing you to maintain a higher "E" state than yanking back on the stick would..
10k should usually be the hard deck in the A8, unless your doing JABO. And IMO the A8 is the better JABO ride than the F8.
Take the four 20mm instead of two 20mm and two 30mm as it give you more punch for a longer amount of time.
Never take the rockets as the racks are modeled and even after you fire them ya still got the wing drag with ya.
Take 50% fuel and a droptank, lose the DT when engaging, also use the manual fuel select to burn fuel from forward tank to get better CoG.
Make sure you adjust your stick to eliminate as much "nose bounce" as possible as this will effect your gunnery and energy state.
I don't think this can be stressed enough, as many times the only shot ya get will be snapshots, ya don't need nose weave throwin' cannons rounds at anything but the target.
Hope this helps.
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Hey Folks, Mucho Grassyarse on all the FW tips :). Sounds like my tactics will be similar to Air Warrior. Just gotta work out a few bumps ;).
Thanks again, I appreciate all the friendly advice.
Cya Up!
BFD
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Some ppl will say the Fw-190A8 is garbage, don't listen to them. I take up planes without a wingman a lot since my squad is usually either offline or doing something else in the MA.
The best advice is, you can fight 1VS1 but it's nice to have some friendlies in the area to lure help you if need be.
I'm 5:2 in the 190A8, 6:1 in the 190A5, 1:0 in the 190D9. 190s are excellent (even the best IMO) if you use them correctly. They are very forgiving above 200MPH and perform best between 250-450MPH. THey accelerate in a dive like a brick with wings and climb pretty decent on WEP too. Wep lasts forever and the firepower is outstanding. In the 190A8 you have 2 13MM (ack shooters as i call them :D) and 4 20MM canoons with 780 rounds to bear. I mostly use the 20MMs cause they pack the most punch, the velocity and trejectory are not as good as the Hispano but get up close (i usually open fire around 350) and you are guarentted a kill. It doesn't take much hits before he's screwed.
Manuvering is decent in the 190A8 too. Learn how to use the roll rate and acceleration in a dive. You CAN out run N1K2s you CAN outrun Spits but you CAN'T outrun a La7 so sccissor this opponent. Sccissoring is an art in the 190A8 it's essential for your "bag of tricks" that's when you roll to one direction, turn and when your oppenents starts to turn reverse the turn, since you outroll EVERYTHING he will eventually overshoot unless he knows how to stop the sccissors or chops throttle which they usually don't. If you get a con in front of you and you are co-e and start turning try a low yoyo which is where you point the nose down 30 degrees turn towards the tunring con and pull up, this in essence makes you turn in the verticle rather in the horizontal which is usefull in the 190
Remember this tip, Drain Aft fuel first, i find and several other 190 aces will back me up on this that if you drain aft fuel first the plane is far more nimble plus your zoom ability increases greatly. Just remember keep the 190 fast and your ok the slower you get the more you loose your strengths.
Good luck trying this bird out :)
~Soviet
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Soviet... you can outrun N1K's if you see them from 3k out and they aren't going faster than you. If you get in a fight with one, it is a fight to the finish, because you can't run then. You can't even outdive the N1K in a 190a8. The Spit is not really all that big a threat, provided you don't try to fight them. If one bounces you and is a decent pilot, you are dead. You can outdive a Spit in a sustained dive, preferably a shallow one to minimize his much superior acceleration in a dive.
An La7 will beat a 190A8 95% of the time, regardless of pilot skill involved. Do not engage them, don't even try to bounce them. The La7 does everything better than any of the 190s, and the A8 is the least suitable for A2A combat.By the way, when I say everything, I mean everything. You can't outturn an La7 in a 190, you can't outdive, outclimb, outaccelerate, or outrun one. You can win a HO with one if you are lucky. You can in some circumstances scissor with one (I only do this off the initial pass, if I can't get the snapshot I break down and dive for more speed to try it again).
The 190A8 is not a bad plane, don't get me wrong. What it is is totally unsuitable for "lone-wolfing" in an arena full of Spits, Niks, La7s, and P-51Ds. In some cases superior pilot skill will even the fight up, but in most cases it won't. Just want to let any prospective 190 drivers know what they are getting into with this plane.
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Originally posted by BFD:
Hmm, does anyone even fly the FW in AH? ;).
Only sissies do :D
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Why not ask Cita-fester-bria? He's got a 10 to 1 K/D ratio, flying it low (there are no airfields at 20k) ;)
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Originally posted by Col. "Kit" Carson, The Best of the Breed Airpower, July, 1976 Vol. 6 No. 4:
General Characteristics
FW-190A
A superb airplane, every inch a fighter. It could do a half roll at cruising speed in one second. Taking this in conjunction with the airplane's high top speed and rate of climb one expected its pilots to exploit its high speed qualities to the fullest without staying in there to "mix it up" in a low speed, flaps down full throttle, gut wrenching dog fight.
They did. The 190 pilots had a good airplane and some good advice. Nearly all of my encounters with the 190 were at high speeds. On at least two occasions when I met them, in my Mustang started porposing, which means I was into compressibility, probably around 550 mph. I don't know what my air speed indicator was reading, I wasn't watching it.
On another occasion, I jumped one directly over the city of Paris and fired all my ammo, but he was only smoking heavily after a long chase over the town. Assuming I was getting 10 percent hits, that airplane must have had 200 holes in it. It was a rugged machine.
Mean weight 8580
Engine BMW 801D
Horsepower 1600
Power loading, lbs./HP 5.36
Wing loading, lbs./sq.ft. 41.7
Prop diameter, ft. 10.86
Wing Geometry
Area, sq.ft. 205
Span, ft. 34.5
Mean chord, ft. 5.95
Aspect Ratio 5.8
Dihedral, degrees 5
Sweepback, degrees 5.5
Root chord, ft. 7.45
Tip chord, ft. 4.05
Thickness Ratio, percent 12
Maximum thickness location Between 25 and 30%
Top speed, mph 408/20,600 ft.
Engine and Propeller
The BMW 801D was a 14 cylinder, twin row radial with direct fuel injection. A 10.9 foot diameter, 3-bladed VDM prop was used and was provided with hand lever or automatic pitch control. The 801D radial air cooled engine first appeared on the Dornier 217 and the Fw-190. Its most novel feature was the oil cooler system which was a number of finned tubes shaped into a ring of tubes a little larger in diameter than the cooling fan. This ring was fitted into the rounded front portion of the cowling just aft of the fan.
I don't think this was a good idea. For example, my principal aiming point was always the forward portion of an enemy ship; the engine, cockpit, wing root section. If you get any hits at all, even only a few, you're bound to put one or two slugs into the engine compartment. Having a couple of bullets riccochet off the engine block and tear up some ignition harness is not too bad at all, at least not fatal. But to have all those thin-walled oil cooling tubes ahead of the engine is bad news. Any hits or riccochets in the engine section are bound to puncture the oil tubes. Then the whole engine is immersed in oil spray, and sometimes it would flash over into a fire. All of the 12 Focke-Wulfs that I shot down sent off a trail of dense, boiling oil smoke heavy enough to fog up my gun camera lens and windshield if I were so close.
Wings and Controls
Again, as in the case of the Me-109, no trim tabs adjustable in flight from the cockpit were provided for the aileron and rudder. European designers seem to have acquired the notion that this was a nuisance or unnecessary. Not at all; when going into a dive, it's very easy for the pilot to reach down with his left hand and flick in a couple of half turns of rudder trim. It's not only desireable but necessary to eliminate side slip for good gunnery. The Fw-190, however, did have electric trim tabs for the elevators.
Performance Evaluation
The Fw-190's handling qualities were generally excellent. The most impressive feature was the aileron control at high speeds. Stick force per "g" was about 9 pounds upto 300 mph rising to 12 pounds at 400 mph as compared to over 20 pounds for the Me-109.
High speed stalls under "g" load were a little vicious and could be a fatal handicap in combat. If the airplane was pulled in tight and stalled at high speed at 2 "gs" or more with the power on, turning right or left, the left wing would drop violently without warning and the airplane would flick onto its back from a left turn. I scored against a 190 under such circumstances. The message was clear, don't stall it. Our own Bell Aircobra P-39 would do the same thing.
Fighting Qualities
Excellent high speed, with exceptional maneuverability at those speeds. Range and endurance were markedly improved over the 109. The Focke-Wulf would go 3 hours plus. Visibility with the full view canopy was superb, as it was in the Mustang.
Summary
Bad points:
(1) Oil cooling tubes at the front of the engines was a poor choice of location. A puncture due to combat damage, or to simple failure covered the engine section with an oil spray.
(2) Lack of aileron and rudder trim controls in the cockpit.
(3) Vicious high speed snap rolls if stalled under significant "g" load.
(4) Poor turning radius due to high wing loading.
Good points:
Everything else was good. In the hands of a competent pilot the 190 was a formidable opponent. The landing approach speed was high and this shakes some pilots up a bit, but I don't think it's anything it's anything to complain about.
I'd hafta say HTC modeled the FW's pretty well then.
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Urchin has 80 kills and has been killed 13 times in the Fw 190A-8.
that was last tour.
Urchin kicks considerable bellybutton in an a8. He flies the a8 alot but I would agree the a8 is not well suited to the type of game that takes place in the main.
Wotan has 31 kills and has been killed 7 times in the Fw 190F-8.
this tour
Wotan has 46 kills and has been killed 16 times in the Fw 190F-8.
last tour.
While I am some what successfull flying the f8 it is hardly suited for the main arena.
Most describe it as crap and by the amount of times its used per tour some would rank it with a 202.
The point being that flying a plane to its potential and with in its envelope you will be successful.
However that does not negate the fact that there are by far planes that are better suited to the type of gameplay in the main.
That being said the game is what you make of it. You can enjoy the excitement of the huge furball yank and banking through the bullets with little regard for score or k/d. Which is great fun.
Or can discipline yourself to fly an aircraft to its potential and stay with in its most advantagious envelope. This is by far the easiest way to stay alive but some find it boring.
That said a person can utilize to strength of his plane to overcome his weakness in experience and "pilot skill" in both circumstances.
A fella relatively new to AH can apply what has been stated in this thread be relatively successfull.
As he developes his skills and confidence will build and he will know how and when to push the envelope.
None of this is written stone some are just better then others regardles of what plane or situation.
Fly what you want and kill what you can. But no matter what you do you're a dweeb. And should you forget this and shoot me down I'll remind ya......dweeb :)
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Raubvgl has 47 kills and has been killed 15 times in the Fw 190A-8.
I never flew the A8 much until this tour, but I decided to fly it exclusively this tour and find a way to fly it proficiently. The A8 does some things well, but it does nothing great. It has decent speed and climb rate with WEP, and the WEP lasts a long time. If you maintain enough separation you can dive away from just about anything and escape. An La7 will catch you eventually, but you should be able to keep him off of you long enough to get some help. The biggest key to the A8 is to always make sure you have some altitude you can trade for airspeed. Once you get on the deck you have run out of options in the A8. The only defense you have is a rolling scissors, and a good pilot will just cut throttle and chew you up.
The A8 has very good high speed handling. It makes a nice stable gun platform. I've been taking 75% and a DT. I usually climb until the DT is empty then level out. This usually gets me up to ~22k. Anything higher than that and the A8 really starts to suck wind. I set the cannon to 375 and the cowl guns to 400. I start tickling them with the cowl guns and when I start seeing hits I let loose with the 4x20mm. Most times you can get a kill with one good burst.
I guess my tips are:
Don't engage without alt
Leave yourself enough alt to dive away
Turn in the vertical
Save WEP for when you really, really need it.
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ugh, I've got conflicting info here. should I drain FWD or AFT tanks first??? :D
Wotan and Urchin, you better gimme good info, I'm flying with you guys in Big Week! :)
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In the A8, drain off all the AUX tank first (maybe even before the drop tank, although I typically don't). After that, drain the Aft tank down to 25%, at that point you are as manueverable as you are going to get in the A8. From there use the FWD tank, head for home when the FWD tank is about 25%. Well, if you are farther than half a sector from home head home when the FWD tank is at 25%, closer than that you can drain it dry and head home on the aft tank, you'll land on fumes.
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Wotan has 36 kills and has been killed 6 times in the Fw 190A-8.
But this is in a totally different situation............the main.
Until we have an idea about the altitude in which we will face the nme buffs I can comment on tactics yet.
Nifty once the rosters are confirmed and flight leaders are nominated we will get together do some practicing and research.
To fly the 190a8 in the main the posts in this thread will get you there.
Facing large formation of buffs with close escort is a totally different story.
FYI [brag]3 of my 190a8 kills occurred because of the "instant death" runway bug.[/brag]
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thx guys. passes on bombers I can handle (unless they're stratobuffin'). It's those pesky escorts I'm gonna have the problem with. Oh well, I like to scissor, and oh boy, does that 190 rollrate lends well to that! ;)
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Just my opinion (take with big pinch of salt). But I found the A5 to be a better dogfighter than the A8. I remember reading something about it being lighter, but I have noticed it is a bit more agile. Plus 1800 rounds of MG ammo is nice (eventhough it is 7mm).
Quick question, what is the difference between regular cannons and FF cannons on the 190s?
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BFD:
Just like the A8 in AW, it'll kill ya more than the nme will ...at first. Get used to it in here and the new FM and it will grow on you. I fly it a bit along with only a few others. If you are with a group of pilits that will stay with you, and not run out on you ie. The Nightmares, then you will leave more dead than they will leave you.
As you know, don't try and turn the A8, roll it. Don't try and climb in it unless you got a big head of steam, and dont't dive into a fight unless you have in excess of 315 kias (err MPH) :)
I read some call it BnZ, I betcha if you use e-fighting methods you will do much better. BnZ lets up on your prey, energy fighting keeps the pressure on without TnB :)
I'll cya up <S>
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OK, man I can't wait for the next camp! I got my feet wet with this puppy, gonna see how well I can do with the FW in December. Thanks a million for all the tips :).
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Cya Up!
Midnight Big Dawg
Nightmares VMF-101 (http://www.nightmares.org)
"Beware the Night"
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(http://midnightburma.freeservers.com/images/bfdtag.jpg)
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lupo has 42 kills and has been killed 9 times in the Fw 190A-8.
190 is a great plane and you can be quite dangerous in it! Also in MA...
Tks to all dedicated pilots for SHARING tips and tricks!
<S>
(http://lupoweb.supereva.it/LUPO190a.jpg)
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190A5 is preferrable for the low level fights thanks to its superior acceleration.
Hard deck? I dunno, I never think in those terms. Keep some speed up, and usually you can maneuver (when you cannot run) enough to get an escape window.
stsanta has 151 kills and has been killed 10 times in the Fw 190A-5.
Last I flew the A8 was back in tour 16 or so. 71:10. I like my A5 :)
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Originally posted by GeistX:
Quick question, what is the difference between regular cannons and FF cannons on the 190s?
The MG/FF had a lower muzzle velocity, I believe a lower rate of fire, (but I won't swear to that), and was generally inferior to the MG151. I am surprised to see it in the A5. Source material I have indicates that while the MG/FF was seen in the a3-a4 models, it was rarely seen even in the a4. Either factory or field modification ditched the MG/FFs almost immediately. I expected to see MG151s. (sigh)
Jagd27
JG27 "AFRIKA"
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Just wanted to introduce myself.
AH Newbie.. German Iron lover.
Really enjoyed the tips on the FW. On the burning the gas issue. I have been just leaving the thing on Automatic. I always have my AFT tank left for home trips. Is it possible to set it up so it automatically burns the AFT first then shifts to the front?
I don't want to run out in the middle of something "important" and have to flail away to shift tanks.
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Use the shift f command to manually adj which tank is used first, but once in manual you have to keep and eye on it, most burn it down to 25% then switch back to the auto mode, go off-line and switch the tanks around so you know what to expect some planes are different in how they do things.
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My advice:
- 4x20 or 2x20 + 2x30
- 75% or 100% internal + DT
- Use your SA as your main weapon.
- Never, never get target-fixated.
- As a general rule with a so E consuming plane, engange those planes that are lower than you and dont flying towards you. Dont engange any plane flying towards you unless your E advantage is enormous, a 180 dgree turn in a 190A8, horizontally or vertically, is too much E expensive. Vertically you are into one of the worst zoomers, horizontally you are into one of the worst turners.
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hi yo-yo's and 30mm...
and the most important of all has been said.
hard deck of 10k