Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Skydancer on January 06, 2005, 06:47:25 PM
-
Maybe I'm just not getting the picture but all the complaining I read about "hordes" seems a bit daft!
I think the reason people gravitate toward each other and play one big battle is that it is little fun flying around spending hours looking for an enemy in a sector that is relatively empty.
Seems like common sense to me to go where the action is. I mean if you only play for an hour or so at a time like me then why would you want to go to where the action isn't.
One thing I would like to see is massed bombing raids. I mean big bomber streams.
Can't we just quit moaning about the horde thing.
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
Maybe I'm just not getting the picture but all the complaining I read about "hordes" seems a bit daft!
I think the reason people gravitate toward each other and play one big battle is that it is little fun flying around spending hours looking for an enemy in a sector that is relatively empty.
Seems like common sense to me to go where the action is. I mean if you only play for an hour or so at a time like me then why would you want to go to where the action isn't.
One thing I would like to see is massed bombing raids. I mean big bomber streams.
Can't we just quit moaning about the horde thing.
Hordes attacking other hordes is very realistic for WWII. That most can agree upon. THe enemy sends forth a force, you in turn counter that force, multi-strata furball ensues. What people have a problem with is the 'roving horde', that is the horde that seeks to overwhelm an area that is largely undefended. When countered that 'roving horde' does not stand and fight and create a furball. It picks up it's toys goes to some other undefended area and starts anew. That is what is unrealistic and 'un-fun'. It's NON-fighting, it's cowardly, it's lame.
Zazen
-
There is no action where the horde is present.
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
One thing I would like to see is massed bombing raids. I mean big bomber streams.
So I take it by this statement you have your game forums mixed up perhaps? If you are talking about AH here I would highly reccomend you get to an eye doctor as fast as possible. :D
-
The problem is simple....the horde doesn't ride to the sound of the guns.
Look at the DAR bars....you'll see your horde with very little opposition...and 2 sectors away will be the "barbarian horde" with equally scant opposition....so you have three choices. Go join your numnuts....go fight their numnuts or go in search of another guy who wants to actually mix it up...
-
solution....
Up Spittoony .. fly to hoard (or largest red dar bar)
Kill as many as possiable .. until ammo is exhausted or killed ...
rinse ....
repeat ... :D
-
Zazen13, thrilla, and humble.
-
Is he refering to my whines about the horde?
-
Originally posted by Roscoroo
solution....
Up Spittoony .. fly to hoard (or largest red dar bar)
Kill as many as possiable .. until ammo is exhausted or killed ...
rinse ....
repeat ... :D
I have been doing just that for the past few times I have been on. You know what..........it's been pretty fun lol.
Zaphod (rookie spitdweeb)
-
I am I think Jamusta
Maybe the game needs a bit of development in the type of arenas etc. The MA doesn't seem to be working so well anymore from what I read.
Maybe there should be a fighters only dogfighting arena, for furballers and freinds, and a more strat based arena, maybe with fewer but more varied tgtsand plane sets rolling historicaly to match fighters etc up or restricted depending on which country you fly for.
I just think the whole Horde thing is a bit of a red Herring and is only happening because of the way the MA is designed. Change the MA and you may just see less of what you seem to be concered about.
Failing that lets givethe CT a shout. I only ever see about 12 people in there. If there were 50-100 it might be worth joining. As it is I think Hitech realy needs to shake up the arenas and make some changes. We have enough skins now. Lets havbe some real change!
:aok
-
I usually tend to log on for an hour or so before work (8amish CET) and a few hours after work. These are the best hours to play imho.
Number of online players is around 100-170. There arnt many big hoard fights but fights are still easy to find. The fights one finds is usually about 2-6 players on each side.
Its great because 70% of he kills during these times are generated though actually dogfighting the enemy. The problem I have with the hoards is that the kills come from sneakin up on people and taking supprice shots, same way you get killed by someone sneakin up on you.
Hoards are thougher on the SA but easier on the flying skills.
Dont get me wrong SA is an extreamly important pilot skill, if not the most important. Just that I like it a bit better when I can actually battle it out with the same enemy for quite some time before the kill shot lands.
Tex
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
I just think the whole Horde thing is a bit of a red Herring and is only happening because of the way the MA is designed. Change the MA and you may just see less of what you seem to be concered about.
The MA has a little bit of everything for everybody, no matter what your priorities or how you get your kicks. Some things have been changed such as amount of fuel that can be porked, enlarging of towns, etc. Looking back now, I think this was a mistake because it just produced a much larger problem than what it was intended for.
When you do a lot of changes to the system itself, it is just a matter of time before someone catchs on and does the ole loophole routine around the fix and creates another problem.
HT can only do so much here. What it boils down to is the players. Until the players discuss and point out such things as these they will not change. Usualy the players rally in the end on a known problem and change things themselves. I think this will play out in the same fashion.
Log on sometime in the early morning hours U.S. Central time if possible. What you will find is the MA at it`s finest. Furballers, straters, GVers, CV Ops enthusiasts are all doing thier thing and it promotes some great gameplay for all involved. This is not practical for most. I realize this, but the point I am making here is at that time you can see what the MA is really like and how it can be.
I love the attack and base capture, but I`ll be danged if I see any fun out of running 2 or more dar bars to a small field, taking everything down then just hanging out waiting for the goon to get there. It just stops gameplay for everyone in that area.
The MA can accomodate the players at primetime, but a lot of the players are refusing to accomodate the MA. That`s the problem, not the systems fault.
I think, maybe, when TOD is released it will give box gamers an alternative to go to. I cetainly hope so. I also believe then , in the MA, we will stop being a test area for things that belong in TOD and maybe a little normality will return.
-
Im a little bit worried about the "ToD will solve all our problems" attitude.
What Im worried about is that this will bring up extream expectations on ToD. Heck I have very high expectations on it as well. But viewing it as the next gift from god and the biggest thing since slized bread is a bit dangerous.
Ive seen players who frow upon base taking and who want more "respectable dog fights" look upon ToD as the saviour.
Dont kid your selfs ToD will be extreamly competetive. Mission success will be the ultimate goal of that game. Surviving the engagement will be at least as important as getting a fight. Fights will not always be ballanced and hence retreat will be the tactically correct choise in quite a few situations.
Mission success and death will be two very important factors. Kills a much less important factor.
So personally I think the players who look to ToD to bring em evenly matched dogfights where pilots never ever are timmid are laregly mistaken.
What ToD will bring though is battles that are much more evenly spread out over the map. You will see players spread out over the map because players cant jump the bandwaggon. But still there will be "hoards" as some missions will most likely generate big raids.
Also what ToD will do is it will generate counter missions for each mission which means that you will always face some sort of resistance. There wount be entire squads hiding in the corner of the map boosting their stats on unprotected targets.
Imho the most important thing ToD will bring is much more war immersion. But this as well wount be liked by all players as you will be restricted to certain planes. You wount always be in your favorite ride.
ToD will be a totally new ball game. Some people will like it. Some people wount. Some people will like parts of it and hate other parts. Some people will whine about it. But how much you as an individual like it or not is very much up to your expectations. You expect ToD to be somethin it aint you will be disapointed. You expect ToD to achive something it never ment to achive you will be disapointed.
Tex
-
Originally posted by Zazen13
Hordes attacking other hordes is very realistic for WWII. That most can agree upon. THe enemy sends forth a force, you in turn counter that force, multi-strata furball ensues. What people have a problem with is the 'roving horde', that is the horde that seeks to overwhelm an area that is largely undefended. When countered that 'roving horde' does not stand and fight and create a furball. It picks up it's toys goes to some other undefended area and starts anew. That is what is unrealistic and 'un-fun'. It's NON-fighting, it's cowardly, it's lame.
Zazen
Bullsheeite call!
In reality, until 8th AAF decided to go after the luftwaffe, everything that could be done TO AVOID CONTACT with enemy fighters was done. Diversionary raids, sneaky stuff, chaff drops...you name it. The primary concept of mobile 20th century warfare is maneuver and "hit 'em where they ain't".
Look at the numbers, fellas. We kill more pilots in this game in a typical week than have died in all the wars of the 20th century.
-
In reality, until 8th AAF decided to go after the Luftwaffe, everything that could be done TO AVOID CONTACT with enemy fighters was done. Diversionary raids, sneaky stuff, chaff drops...you name it. The primary concept of mobile 20th century warfare is maneuver and "hit 'em where they ain't".
[edit for lack of coffee]
In here attrition is not modeled so it's different. I would be a stong proponet of horde tactics and you would find me at the tail end of the largest horde around if I had to put a pistol in my mouth and pull the trigger the first time I got shot down. But since this is a game I prefer not to emulate offline play.
Charon
-
In order to bust the hordes a new strategy has to be used, instead of uppin huge missions to a single base,why not try usin 1-2 small squads or groups to attack a single base while another small group attacks another base a few sectors away hence the horde becomes several small gruops attacking different bases at the same time.human nature will take over the large horde as they see thier # of bases shrinking, and they'll respond,probally in large groups at first then as they rrealize they cant keep up with the army of smaller groups overtaking them they'll dispearse to fend off the attacks and thus the horde problem will start to diminish over time and that isnt taking into account the lil generals who are constantly trying to get peeps to do base ops anyway,so the horde begins to have to forces to deal with.just thought I would throw that in for free.:D
VIC
-
GOOD GAWD... Are you new to the game skydancer? Chances are, you are... People gravitate towards each other because they are score potatos, afraid to lose their rank or just simply do not have the skill nor the desire to aquire the skills to dogfight. So next time you are online look at the dar bars. You will see for the most part players from different side avoiding each other. I dont mind building battlers, heck I was dropping hangers last night. I dont even mind NOE missions. I just cant stand to see players in a flight sim avoiding each other because they are afraid to be shot down in a game.
-
skydancer.. I know you are probly new so before I form an opinion...
Could you please tell me what you consider to be "action" and "fun" in regardes to the MA?
I think a lot of the new guys think this is a thrill a minute compared to their other hobby of watching sports on TV.
lazs
-
Originally posted by jamusta
...People gravitate towards each other because they are score potatos, afraid to lose their rank...
You can't get high rank avoiding enemies and flying in hordes. It is imposible to get good k/d, k/s and k/time at the same time if there are no enemies around, or you have to compete with your country men for every kill.
-
Vad how do you figure? 1 good sortie is all it takes in fighter. Or you can simply fly high and cherry someone elses hard work. Get to a base and vulch. You can rack up very good stats doing that.
-
Jam take another one of the lil blue pills.:D
-
yes sir vic sir......
-
there now you feel better?BTW SHOULD BE ON MONDAY PM AROUND 8
Vic
-
Jamusta - I think a lot of horde mentality is newbies who feel safer with 'friends' around them.
Can't really blame them AH2 has a steep learning curve.
As for score, everyone in the know, knows that in AH2 rank just means you know how to game the game and is irrelevant.
Some of the best sticks in the game don't have a particular good rank but you know when you find one.
In fact a few of high ranked players are WELL known for their vulch and run method of play.
Vad - As Jamusta said, only takes a few 'good' runs.
Unfortuneately I can't see the horde mentality dissappearing soon :(.
-
Yeah if you look at alot of the top 100 ranked players alot of them are just average fighter pilots. Some I know for sure I can whip but they have these high k/d k/s but they fly around in cannon planes and vulch many times. On the other hand alot of the better fighter jocks ranks and scores blows because they are in it to fight.
-
Originally posted by victor
there now you feel better?BTW SHOULD BE ON MONDAY PM AROUND 8
Vic
Well its about darn time you come back
-
I never cherry picked you last night... but SA2, yeah I picked him a couple of times! :D
-
Originally posted by jamusta
Yeah if you look at alot of the top 100 ranked players alot of them are just average fighter pilots. Some I know for sure I can whip but they have these high k/d k/s but they fly around in cannon planes and vulch many times. On the other hand alot of the better fighter jocks ranks and scores blows because they are in it to fight.
Gotta admit to being a cannon guy myself (Tiffy). Think I've had 2 vulches the last week, rest have been defending bases against a 'horde'.
Not saying I'm a great stick, but do think I'm a little above average. Learning the hard way, and still make dumb mistakes, ask birdo!
K/S I don't worry about, lost count of the number of times I've got on the runway to find out I have wrong loadout and just towered out. Or upped at a base to kill a 'lone' con. Don't have the patience for rearm\refuel, just grab a new one.
-
Originally posted by TexMurphy
ToD will be a totally new ball game. Some people will like it. Some people wount. Some people will like parts of it and hate other parts. Some people will whine about it. But how much you as an individual like it or not is very much up to your expectations. You expect ToD to be somethin it aint you will be disapointed. You expect ToD to achive something it never ment to achive you will be disapointed.
Tex
TOD will do just exactly what is being designed to do. Give the box gamers a place online to go instead of the MA.
-
Well I'm not so new. I do think however that the Hordes thing is a symptom of the way the game is set up. I do think that the planeset though good could do with being rotated so that early war planes get used against each other. It seems that theres realy no point in P40's Spit 1's 109E's etc No one uses them. All I ever see is La7s Ponys Spit 9's etc. Uber fighters vulching bases or as you say flying en masse to bases without much enemy. Also I'm admittedly no hot pilot so I never getto fly 262's or comets or tempests etc. Revolve the set chronogicaly it would be more interesting and perhaps require more skill.
In short I think if other things were tried, Different maps with more strategic objectives / realistic ( real places )terrains. Different planes for different countries with a limit on how many could sign up to each. Matching fighters chronolgicaly and revolving the set. The horde problem though always there to a certain extent might then be alleviated.
Phew Ok I'll shut up now and let the comments come.
-
Skydancer the game evolved this way because we who have been playing for a few years allowed it. With older players leaving and more newer players joining we have not done anything about this. It started a couple of years ago and has been getting worse.
-
I don't know what it is... I kinda buy into the theory that the new guys want the safety of numbers but that doesn't jibe with what we did when we were new...
Seems back in the $2 an hour days that you simply attacked every bad guy you seen regardless of the odds... you got killed every damn time and one time you killed someone pretty soon you got so that you could kill someone 10% of the time no matter what the odds then.... 50% gut you learned by dying not by being timid.
What do you learn by being timid? there are a few who have been on for years and have allways been timid.... they only attack when it appears to be a sure thing with a good escape route in a fast plane.... when you catch em and they have to fight..
they aren't any better at it than they were the firstr month or so they sighned on... Id that what you new guys want for yourselves?
Do you want to suck for years?
lazs
-
Nothing wrong with spits in the MA, one of the only planes you can almost guarantee will fight rather than flee.
-
Jam, up a fighter sweep mission. Hit the hoard as one big group from alt. I was in one last year that FBDred upped to take the pressure off a base. We had 30 Nikies and we dove in as one group. Demoralised the enemy. During the first wave in they had no room to get out of the way. We killed half and the rest ran away. Biggest problem was we were stuck with nothing to do after they scattered.:)
Dred has done the same with LA7 and C.205. It works. You need 20 minimum. It's the focused attack from alt that breaks their moral and makes them run. :D
-
It seems when I started you learned to furball before you learned to B&Z. When I first started I was getting shot down all the damn time and would wonder how the pros stayed alive in that mess. I would up 4 or 5 times and see the same pros still in the furball. I remember I couldnt fly the P51 if someone put a gun to my head. I was always trying to turn it and would stall. My aim sucked on high speed passes. Learning to B&Z was difficult for me. Now I furball in the p51 better than I can in anything else.
-
Forgive me Jam but The we have allowed it comment seems a little arrogant. This is a game not a society for people who play it a lot ! Maybe I got you wrong there but I realy think it matters not a jot if you've been playing for years or days everyoner has a right to an opinion or to play within the rules how they see fit.
( I'm not new but I don't fly under this name)
-
Jam, so what do you think we in the 56th are doing on the deck when we get low and slow with all those spitflys buzzing around us? Gotta admit I like being higher up in my Jug doing the thunder thing. You payed the dues Jam just like the rest of us. It's still a learning curve.:)
-
Originally posted by jamusta
1 good sortie is all it takes in fighter.
1 good sortie could give you high K/S and K/D but:
- I have to make all other sorties in attack mode otherwise I will lose my stat.
- one good sortie won't give me high rank. I need points, and even 10-kills sortie gives me too little points at the end of month.
- to keep my high k/d and k/s and increase my points I have to fly "good" sorties every day the whole month. Couple of bad sorties - and I have lost everything!
Or you can simply fly high and cherry someone elses hard work. Get to a base and vulch. You can rack up very good stats doing that.
I tried, it doesn't work actually. There are too many competitors in vulching. To get good k/s I have to be lucky. Usually after 2-3 minutes of vulch feast some idiots come and destroy FHs, and only what I have is couple of kills at the best. Waste of time. BTW, first of all I have to find vulched field, it is not easy nowadays. Everybody are egoists, nobody take care about my score.
Cherry picking is a little bit better but it is not the solution also.
Need to find even fight with low numbers. While take off, climb, get to the position they already have killed each other! What do I have at the best case? - lost K/H and K/S! And this is not the worst scenario, sometimes my stupid country men get killed, and instead of easy kill I have a couple of angry enemies.
Cherrypicking in big furball is even worse. After one pass cherrypicker becomes cherrypicked, so you have limit of k/s and k/d equal 1 theoretically.
Our, score potato's, life is very dangerous!
-
Our, score potato's, life is very dangerous!
I know ... I tried it once and could hardly sleep at night.
-
How is that arrogant? We get a rush of new players and dont show them the ropes. They instead find safety in numbers and learn the only way they can get kills is to horde and vulch. When you get them alone all they can do is run. Whos fault is it if not for the folks who have been here the longest. There was a time that a new guy would sign on and ask questions just to get completely harrassed and told the answer to everything is alt 4. Its not like that anymore but it is to late. The new guy now doesnt ask questions. They basically learn on there own. Whos fault is it?
Oh and it would be nice to know who I am speaking too. I go by jamusta in game.
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
Well I'm not so new. I do think however that the Hordes thing is a symptom of the way the game is set up. I do think that the planeset though good could do with being rotated so that early war planes get used against each other. It seems that theres realy no point in P40's Spit 1's 109E's etc No one uses them. All I ever see is La7s Ponys Spit 9's etc. Uber fighters vulching bases or as you say flying en masse to bases without much enemy. Also I'm admittedly no hot pilot so I never getto fly 262's or comets or tempests etc. Revolve the set chronogicaly it would be more interesting and perhaps require more skill.
I agree, there is nothing more fun than Zekes and Wildcats over the water but the players (a lot not all) don't want this. They will say "it's my $15.00 and I want to fly what I want to fly". From HTC's perspective they are paying customers.
I've had the idea of associating each week of the tour to a year of the war, wk1=42, wk2=43, wk3=44, wk4=45. Sounds like a cool idea but it wouldn't fly eihter.
Someone (can't remenber who) suggested the Horde Hunter squad. A squad who's mission is always to find and kill the horde. H311, I'd even change countries to join such a squad.
-
Jam, up a fighter sweep mission. Hit the hoard as one big group from alt. I was in one last year that FBDred upped to take the pressure off a base. We had 30 Nikies and we dove in as one group. Demoralised the enemy. During the first wave in they had no room to get out of the way. We killed half and the rest ran away.
I agree with bustr. in 2003 us MAWs did the same to a huge formations of 30+ Rook Lancs. I believe we did it with P47's. They had the red (_!_) .
When we came down on them they didn't know whether to scratch their watches or wind their asses. :rofl
It was mucho grande uber Fun!
:aok
-
jamuasta... when it was a couple of bucks an hour they weren't happy with the "help" they gave ya until they got a tear out of ya...
Sheesh.. are you saying the new guys are too sensitive? We should worry about their "feelings"? maybe they should go find a game that chicks play?
It's hard to get decent in a fighter but you just have to bite the bullet and accept that it is gonna be painful and lengthy to get good and learn to enjoy the small victories along the way.
lazs
Public Relations Officer For the BK's
-
Originally posted by jamusta
How is that arrogant? We get a rush of new players and dont show them the ropes. They instead find safety in numbers and learn the only way they can get kills is to horde and vulch. When you get them alone all they can do is run. Whos fault is it if not for the folks who have been here the longest. There was a time that a new guy would sign on and ask questions just to get completely harrassed and told the answer to everything is alt 4. Its not like that anymore but it is to late. The new guy now doesnt ask questions. They basically learn on there own. Whos fault is it?
Not so IMO, I'm relatively new to AH, I've flown sims for about a year and did my homework regarding flying and practiced offline. I've asked questions and got good answers. The new guys do ask questions and they are given help. Even when they are obvious questions that they could have learned if they read the help file or flew offline for a while before jumping into the MA.
I don't think it's because they are afraid to ask for help I think it's because they want to get in and be the Red Baron right off the bat and find out that it don't work that way and they resort to "gaming the game".
Some people find enjoyment in taking a huge number of planes to a base and capturing it, Especially if it's undefended. I joined a 30+ plane P-38 mission last night. I was in the back of the pack when we got to the target, I never got a chance to drop my ord on anything. It was all gone. I dumped ord and started flying fighter cover. Problem was there were to many planes. Couldn't even get close to a kill. I'd have had more fun flying for the enemy. The other people on the mission were having a good time. You could tell by the chatter. Once the base was taken I landed my plane and went looking for a fight somewhere else.
Skydancer, If you don't like the horde setup a mission and call your countrymen to go Hunt the Horde as bustr said.
-
Oh yeah, Joins a mission a few days ago and when we got to the target guess what? Fighter cover. You should have heard the whining. Cliams of spying were comming out of the VOX faster than you could lislen to them. Some guys were down right PO'd.
Frankly, I thought it was a hoot myself.
-
If you think there is no problem with a Horde. When your country is doing this. Land Change Sides and fight against it:D. Then Repost:eek: :rofl
Crims
479th Raiders
-
Originally posted by Clifra Jones
Some people find enjoyment in taking a huge number of planes to a base and capturing it, Especially if it's undefended. I joined a 30+ plane P-38 mission last night. I was in the back of the pack when we got to the target, I never got a chance to drop my ord on anything. It was all gone. I dumped ord and started flying fighter cover. Problem was there were to many planes. Couldn't even get close to a kill. I'd have had more fun flying for the enemy. The other people on the mission were having a good time. You could tell by the chatter.
That just about sums up the problem.
Taking that many people to a single base is equal to a big red ON/OFF switch.
When you hit the base with that many folks and wipe out everything you turn the switch to OFF. It essentialy turns OFF the game for anyone in that area. It turns OFF any threat. It turns OFF any enemy possibilities and puts you in a non-game mode. Most of all, it turns OFF any chance for fun.
I think a reasonably sized mission is great because usualy it results in a battle for that base and area, but when you run this many in at once it eliminates any competition.
It could probably be helped somewhat by limiting numbers allowed in a mission and numbers allowed to up from a single area, but I`d hate to see this happen. I would much rather see the player base address the problem and take care of it themselves, as it should be.
-
I have tried fighting the horde. Very frustrating as you tend to get vlched to death! However when you do manage to sneak up and get a few pings or better still kills its very satisfying. I've been in the horde and fought against it. So i do knoiw what you are talking about.
All i'm saying is that until Hitech tweeks the arenas a bit more ( refer to my earlier posts 0 i think it will happen so no point in moaning about it. just outwit it or join it whatever enjoy.
Oh and please can so called senior members try to take a seemingly less condesending attitude to newer players.
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
Oh and please can so called senior members try to take a seemingly less condesending attitude to newer players.
Maybe you can help us out here by revealing what your ingame ID is instead of playing who done it on the boards. ......
..... I think it was the butler with a toilet plunger btw. :D
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
[B
All i'm saying is that until Hitech tweeks the arenas a bit more ( refer to my earlier posts 0 i think it will happen so no point in moaning about it. just outwit it or join it whatever enjoy.
[/B]
Oh there is nothing wrong with the way the arena is set (refer to my earlier post), it`s a problem within the player base. The players can fix or ignore it.
There`s a big difference in moaning about something than there is getting it out on the table and discussing it.
-
Originally posted by rshubert
Bullsheeite call!
In reality, until 8th AAF decided to go after the luftwaffe, everything that could be done TO AVOID CONTACT with enemy fighters was done. Diversionary raids, sneaky stuff, chaff drops...you name it. The primary concept of mobile 20th century warfare is maneuver and "hit 'em where they ain't".
Look at the numbers, fellas. We kill more pilots in this game in a typical week than have died in all the wars of the 20th century.
You are speaking of trying to get unescorted bombers through to targets. Of course the unescorted bombers did not want to fight. When they had escort later they did everything possible to encourage the luftwaffe to come up and fight.
-
Sick of it.....
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/384_1105227265_hordes.jpg)
-
Who cares about hords!!
yah they are anoying,,, oh well
Seems what most people try to do is win the MAP that is how the game is set up. there si also those that dont care and just wanna fly and kills stuff.
The objective is capture Fields to win the map
best way to do that is attack fast in a group with surprise or overwelming numbers.. .. and that is just what happens, and this won't change, unless they get rid of field captures and winning the reset! But that would suck there would be no objectives and the game would get boring!
Attack the hored I do.... your out numbered 20 to 1 ,,, so u need advantage to counter thier #s,,, speed and alt! get it and use it down as many horders as you can till your buddies finaly show up and rtb with your kills! Its very satisfying! haha
Hey people say your a score potato for landing etc.....
My objective is to land every plane.... with kills or no kills,, that how I like to play... lose as little planes or none (<< hasnt happened yet) in a month as posible. "Live to tell about it"
When You run from the hord they cry and say U chicken... well they are idiots because they joined the hord and thier own fault that there is only 2 NME to kell between the 20 of them.
So the hord got the field but they saw no action.... so U pick what you want to do,,,
I fly both because it gets boring doing the same thing all the time.
Hords do suck when the sides are totaly uneven.... i.e 140 rooks 130 nits and 95 bish.... gets overwhelming ,,,, but its still fun... get great perks and can fly perk planes for cheap. just make sure your not flying one when the reset comes ;)
So if hord meets a hord thats just the coolest!!! looks awsome and is lots of fun!
Wow that was long.. .. anyway the moral of the story is
PORKCHOPINMYBOOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MonkeyMeat
-
Originally posted by Darkish
Sick of it.....
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/384_1105227265_hordes.jpg)
WOW, that looks like soooo much fun! (dripping with sarcasm)
I'm not missing loggin in to look at that i'll tell ya! HA!
-
Originally posted by A_Clown
WOW, that looks like soooo much fun! (dripping with sarcasm)
I'm not missing loggin in to look at that i'll tell ya! HA!
This is the gameplay i am talking about. now if the 2 hordes met think of the fun of trying to capture a base and defending a base. The furballers get to furball and the strat guys get to blow stuff up. GV guys could blast away. Now that would be fun.
-
This is the gameplay i am talking about. now if the 2 hordes met think of the fun of trying to capture a base and defending a base. The furballers get to furball and the strat guys get to blow stuff up. GV guys could blast away. Now that would be fun.
Yes it would.
Except currently, nothing can force anyone into doing that. And I'd say after months and years of MA experience, it's safe to assume that people will never, ever put themselves in voluntary danger.
IMO the MA seriously needs some sort of basic structure, or organization enforced by the system. Without something like this, no amount of encouragement will spread the numbers apart and force people to fight against each other.
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
Yes it would.
Except currently, nothing can force anyone into doing that. And I'd say after months and years of MA experience, it's safe to assume that people will never, ever put themselves in voluntary danger.
That's not entirely true...Small maps force people to do exactly that. The very finite fronts force hordes to fight instead of overwhelm undefended areas. The simple fact is human nature seeks the path of least resistance, if there is one, the horde will take it. Only when faced with no other alternative, as is the case on the smaller maps, do the hordes consistantly and inevitably end up duking it out...
Zazen
-
The small problem is, Zazen, people also hate being stuck in small maps. We can keep encouraging HTC or the map makers to create teeney weeney maps for an arena full of 500 people, except sooner or later people are gonna hate that too.
In real life, every freedom has checks and balances that discourage indulgence. However, in the MA, whenever a big terrain lands on the plattter the absolute absence of rules and regulations just fuels the frustration of hordism like highspeed winds on wildfire.
I think its safe to say everyone's effectively sick and tired of the 'vulch or be vulched' status in the large maps. Whenever I log on, its always a choice between "go try and actually organize an opposition against a horde, which usually fails and you'll typically be facing 5 vs 1 odds", or "ignore your friends who actually try to look at the bigger side of the issue, and go join the horde and have a good time spanking town buildings".
I say its time to start thinking practically and take some steps to divide fronts and use at least semi-limited assets. Total freedom in the MA without any stipulations, at least in the large maps, are also self-destructive.
I advocate a two-airforce system that divides people into one independant airforces at each front. People who want to transfer to the other front will have to find someone to swap places with via a centralized relocation system. New logons will be automatically placed at an 'airforce' that is smaller in numbers.
This will always ensure there is roughly equal sized enemy presence on whatever front you are fighting at. There will still be "local hordes" but its size will be only half of what it used to be. The only drawback is it will take some time to find a swapper, if you wish to transfer to the 2nd airforce fighting against a different country.
It's not even a total limitation of choice, but just adding some basic procedures to player relocation so that local numbers will always have some kind of enemy opposition,, which is not overwhelming but simularly sized.
IMO there's nothing to lose and lots to gain.
-
Originally posted by Kweassa
The small problem is, Zazen, people also hate being stuck in small maps. We can keep encouraging HTC or the map makers to create teeney weeney maps for an arena full of 500 people, except sooner or later people are gonna hate that too.
To my knowledge no small maps have been created in the last 3 years (when I started playing AH). All new maps that have been created are HUGE. As far as being stuck. I haven't seen a small map last more than 48 hrs in I don't know how long....A very long time anyways, and then it was usually only Baltic or occassionally NDIsles just becuase everyone was too busy furballing on the center Isle to care about resetting the map.
Just for a case study I just looked at the MA as of 11 pm CST Sat. night. The front between the 3 countries is a total of 32 sectors, 19 sectors have cons in them. But, the vast majority of the cons are in about 8 or 9 sectors. In those 8 or 9 sectors there are few if any defenders attempting to counter 20 to 30+ attackers. So, basically, even though there are 432 people in the arena there is little if any real fighting going on, just a few stalwart base defenders getting semi-vulched for the cause here and there in the face of an overwhelming horde. On a map of smaller proportions with something much smaller than the almost 300 bases on the current map the status quo of NON-fighting we have would not be possible. With almost 300 fields during anytime but absolute peak US prime-time there is enough bases for each person to have their own personal field and sector...That just seems rediculous to me...
Take other games for example, not necessarily just flight sims, maps are designed to bring people together along a relatively concentrated front. The point is to encourage interaction or concentrations of force (multi-sided concentrations), few if any of the large maps do this. What we have is long rather disjointed front lines and no impetus whatsoever for forces to contest choke points or any other area of strategic or any other significance.
So, naturally it's just capture motivated hordes swarming remote and largely undefended areas on every side, no fighting really, just milkrunning. That in itself would not be so bad, but the sheer plurality of the bases make any one, several or even many of them insignificant relative to the total number of fields. So, unless one team has been chopped down to a small slice of the map there is no real reason to defend so long as your horde is replacing lost bases as fast or faster than the other guy's horde can take yours...YYYyyyyaaaaaaawwwwwwn nnn!
On small maps, you bloody well defend, because if you lose 3 fields and you only had 30 to begin with, that's 10 percent of your holdings. On a HUGE maps 3 bases compared to 100 is just 3%, meaningless even moreso if you are just replacing that 3% elsewhere, uncontested..It's just the math of geographic economics..
People are going to fly together, co-operatively, no matter what. Humans are social beings and organization is encouraged and provided for by the game interface. So, hordes will exist no matter what in one form or another, for better or worse. The maps dictate how those hordes behave and interact if at all. On HUGE maps there is little or no need for hordes to interact, the end goal of capturing bases is actually best served by actively avoiding the other horde(s). On small maps with relatively few fields, the exact opposite is true, the end goal is best served by vehemently defending your country's meager holdings, while at the same time putting the other guy's meager holdings in jeoprady. This forces the hordes to interact. So, there'll always be hordes but:
Hordes + HUGE maps = base capturing shell game of NON-interaction.
Hordes + small maps = vehement defense and concentrated interactive competition for the relatively few and precious bases.
Zazen
-
The problem is, an indirect method of map creation that is supposed to "bring people together" can only go so far. Make 'bottle necks' on the terrain by use of mountains... create small strips of accessible land so low-mid alt fighters can only pass through there... place airfields in a pattern so people only get to attack one airfield at a time... or place GV/PT spawns close to each other.. etc etc.
In every map becomes the same. Some maps which have different physics are criticized harshly. Take the "Big Isles" for example. It's a very different map concept compared to the rest that expands the basic idea of "NDIsles". Except the large ocean gaps make milkruns everywhere. To fight that plague, the only solution is to place more fields closer to each other, which in turn kills everything the "Big Isles" has in variety and turns it into the same ol' same ol'. Besides, small maps are definately not without hordes.
The problem is greater than just can be handled by fiddling with the map alone. It is an inherent, social problem of the people that constitute the new MA. The MA has changed to a fully warring mentality:
* "Nationalism" between countries
* maximal use of force
* efficiency over tradition
* horde of amateuers over special few veterans
* quantity over quality
All of the aspects which makes a War is already in place. It's totally different from the MA I first witnessed when I joined during AH1.05. However, none of the factors which makes a war a war and not just a gang-fight slugfest, are absent from the game. Strategics, logistics, human resource relocation, coordinated goals, etc etc.
None of these were really needed during 1.04, 1.05 days. There weren't enough people to handle sophisticated internal physics of the war. It's different now.
I'm not asking to restructure AH2 into a WW2OL. I'm just advocating that at least some sort of basic management is needed on a system level, to ensure that people still can get a fight on whatever map they fly in.
Just as the TOD is planned will factor in a system that will create missions that are 'scripted' so that the two hostile forces always get to see some action, the MA also needs a system that will ensure that people will have to do more than just group up to achieve what they want.
Divide the people into two fronts. Two different airforces in a single country. This in effect, is the same thing as total six countries in the MA with three sets of two country-alliance. Each Bish, Knit, Rook will have two airforces which takes charge of each front, which the player can belong to only one of them at a given time.
In other words, it sort of organizes the MA that the gameplay resembles the conditions that we used to see in the old days, but does not take a retro-step such as making two separate MAs.
-
as long as the fields are all more than 3/4 of a sector apart and easy to pork but not take... there will be a lack of good fights.
fields 3/4 of a sector apart... easier capture... would make the action move fast and fun. No perks for a "win".
lazs
-
I've been playing for a little over 3 months now and can say that my first few days were spent in the horde. All I did was log on and look for the biggest green bar and go with it. I'd scrape up a kill here and there(cherry pickin:) and think this was the norm. The few times I did venture out on my own I'd run into a bad guy and do my TnB and die. This soon got frustrating for me and thankfully, on one of my runs I ran into someone who directed me and took me to the TA to practice. There I met Ghosth and Fuze among others and since then have become much better. The average newbie doesn't think about going to the TA first, they want to get into the fight. They then travel in the horde and get a few kills and figure they didn't need the TA anyway. My suggestion for you vets would be when you run across someone that obviously is new pvt message them and ask how long they been playin. If you don't feel like taking them to the TA invite them to wing with you or stress the importance of the TA. It's sorta like the big brother/sister thing. Most(but not all) newbies quickly learn who the vets are and gain a healthy respect for them so advice coming from the vets carries more weight. If you show them "correct" combat fighting than you will have the fights you seek. If you guys really want better fights than HO... extend... repeat, than maybe this will help. Up until I went to the TA, this seemed like a pretty good plan to me and the norm. I know some of you already do this (because I was the victim lol) and I can't tell you how helpful it is. But maybe if more of you would adopt a baby seal the MA would be a better place.
PS: Just gotta say to Furball there will be a day when you don't kill me before I finish the merge!:p
-
super dud... really good attitude. If you keep that attitude and are stuborn... you will get good... You will know that when you meet a con that even if he has an alt advantage you have a better than even chance of killing him and.... you will learn to enjoy a really good fight.
I never tried to get help.. I was just too stubborn and... in the old days... people fought.. there were large furballs for the looking. People payed $2 an hour or more to play and they didn't log on to fly around doing nothing or even to kill toolsheds. It was easy to find one good fight after another with lots of planes all whirling around in a big furball.
To get good in the current AH you would need to spend a lot of time in the TA or... maybe 5 years of cherry picking or... 6 months of flying into the enemy horde and getting killed. problem with the latter is that you won't get much fighting as the attention starved lat model guys will be so starved for a kill that they will timidly B&Z at you even tho there are allready 15 guys on you.
The arena is not really set up to learn to get good I don't believe.
lazs
-
Originally posted by thrila
Nothing wrong with spits in the MA, one of the only planes you can almost guarantee will fight rather than flee.
Well, of course, Spitfires can't flee! ;)
Bless those boys in FM-2s, Zeros and Hurricanes. You know they came to fight!
My regards,
Widewing
-
I like the F4F in addition to that group because it has those two extra .50's over the FM-2.
I flew the Spit V for the first time since it got the higer boost setting and it has offically taken over the role of AH's "helocopter" from the Niki. :)
-
There are a few funny things about this whole thread. You have the supposed veterans stating it's their fault for not teaching the new guys the right way. If you watch who's running these "horde missions" you'll find it is infact the veterans that are doing it.
Because Darkish was so generous and posted us a photo lets just take a look at it. At A160 there is approximately 26 people within the radar zone. How many people does it take to effectively take a small airfield? 1 fighter/bomber for the VH, 1 maybe 2 buff groups to eliminate the FHs, 3 maybe 4 more buffs to carpet bomb the town, 1 maybe 2 more fighter/bombers to eliminate any missed items in the town, 4 or 5 fighters max to CAP any fighters that got up before the FHs were hit and 1 goon maybe 2. That's a total of 16 aircraft if we go with the maximum amount.
The majority of the missions run anymore are a gaggle of people with little to no direction. I've seen this when I was a Bishop and I've seen it as a Rook. The whole group is typically in total disarray. Bomber groups are typically in wide spread formations with no fighter cover close or if they are close they aren't in the right position to defend if necessary. When they are in the right position they get hung up chasing someone to the deck to get a kill which ends up taking them out of their intended role which was to protect the heavy bombers and fighter/bombers.
Little to no thought goes into what needs to come down first most of the time or what portion of the mission should launch first. They try to launch everything at once which in the end throws a huge dar bar which in turn sometimes gets peoples attention. When it does get peoples attention they've for the most part guaranteed atleast an extremely long drawn out battle and maybe a base capture. That is ofcourse if half the group doesn't give up after they've met resistance. How often do mission planners actually put up blocking forces at surrounding enemy bases to limit the amount of out of area contacts coming to spoil the raid?
People can scream and yell about hordes being hordes because they are to chicken to fight alone. When in reality it's because they lack what it takes to effectively attack a field and neutralize any possible threats at the base and from surrounding bases. They come into the field only to auger due to compressing from their 10 to 12k dives and they might actually hit their target. Even prior to that their target choice is beyond absurd. When taking a base how often do you see them taking out fuel or troops? Why would do that when your trying to take the base in the first place and unless you fail troops mean nothing and fuel means little to start with in the first place. It's a waste of resources and a taking a chance that you'll die on such a meaningless target. People try to drop from 1 and 2k on their targets only to get killed by ack or to compress and die. When if they were actually pulling up prior to 3 or 5k from their release the probability of dying would end up being alot less. That would mean though you'd have to take the time to learn how to drop from a higher altitude which is asking alot from the community and their "fun time". The same "fun time" that people are spending countless hours online so they can "win" but yet complain because this is to hard to kill or this isn't hard enough to kill and there is too many hordes. Most folks will squeak and complain because they want it to be fun and that they want to win but don't want to put in the effort to make it happen.
-
Yawn ZzZzzzzzz Zzzzzz
-
Originally posted by Zazen13
You are speaking of trying to get unescorted bombers through to targets. Of course the unescorted bombers did not want to fight. When they had escort later they did everything possible to encourage the luftwaffe to come up and fight.
Second call. You are interpreting the facts differently from published historical reports. Check the literature.
-
the only gameplay more boring than a bunch of unorganized hordes is the gameplay that involves a bunch of organized hordes.
lazs
-
Not if the organized hordes meet....
-
like that will ever happen...
The hordes we have these days... well.. the guys will drop their mouse on the floor and auger if they see any red planes or... if they are high enough they will turn around and go home.
lazs
-
Originally posted by Darkish
Sick of it.....
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/384_1105227265_hordes.jpg)
I see all those reds incoming as an opportunity - (we did get some gv's to up though and I think we stopped that mission if i remember right.) The game has been about big red bars vs. little green bars for a long time now. Cant change it so roll with it, what is the worst that can happen? :)
-
Since everyone is complaining always about hordes,score potatos and gangbanging...
Why doesn't HTC put in a Score pimp you know it could be a P-47 with a feather skin and pink interior with a fly pilot looking for is corner of the land and watching that the customers don't stiff him and each country gets one, he's be superfly mother trucker yes he would.
-
Originally posted by lazs2
like that will ever happen...
The hordes we have these days... well.. the guys will drop their mouse on the floor and auger if they see any red planes or... if they are high enough they will turn around and go home.
lazs
I can dream cant I?
It did happen once ya know
-
Laz are you saying a mission with 16 people is a horde? Is it boring because people don't have the patience to go attack these incoming flights? You guys say you want action. Well I'd say having a group coming in like that will get you plenty of action.
-
Originally posted by Zazen13
Hordes + small maps = vehement defense and concentrated interactive competition for the relatively few and precious bases.
This is why I really like Baltic. The fights can get really intense.
-
I agree, baltic has a higher proportion of nose prints on my moniter. Always has.
-
cobra... if this was a game about patience and the ability to withstand boredom... wouldn't I just be better off staying at work and making the overtime?
The horde is allmost as little fun to fight as it is to ignore.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
cc Laz 16 people = horde. We might want to ask HTC if they can implement device to ensure there is always an equal amount of friendlies to enemies in a given sector. It'll add just one more easy mode to the game.
-
ah... I see. 16 guys hitting an undefended field is not a horde of skilless newbies and lots of fun but an equal or near equal fight is "easy mode"?
do you go to the mens room by yourself or in groups of 16?
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
groups, obviously, you silly git!! how can you have a circle of *one* :confused:
-
And it's undefended why? They must have snuck in and sabotaged the dar system then came in without anyone knowing.
You'd just prefer 1 person tries to attack a field. Gotcha.
-
doesn't matter how many people are attacking a bunch of Ai and toolsheds... it's all boring.. if it is one or two they are in fast planes and run away at any sign of a fight... if you catch em they die skillessly so they are not worth chasing.
If it is a horde they are so attention starved and starved for a kill that 20 of em give up their uslesss circling and fight each other for the kill... often killing themselves in the bargin.
The only good thing about being on the other side is that you don't have to listen to their drivel on voice.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
Big fight tonight!
No Talent Base Capture Dweebs Vs. Heroic A2A killers
or
Dedicated War Winning Patriots vs. Selfish Quaker Furball Dweebs...
you make the call!
Look/goto for Shubie (bish) leading the BoP Horde and look/goto me (knights) as a point of reference (I ain't leadin' nobody, but I'll be there) for the knight counter air. Bring your favorite toy.
Put up or shut up! Feel the pain, relish the hate!
GRRRRRRR
:mad: :mad: :mad:
Starts
9:30 E
8:30 C
7:30 M
6:30 P
Charon
-
Ah I got it. You just want an arena that is purely air to air dogfighting. Well I'm sure you can find a boxed game that will throw tons of ai at you and you can dog fight till you go blue in the face. Better yet grab all your furball buds and go to the da since that's all you want to deal with. I'm sure the rest of the MA doesn't mean to waste the BKs time with the whole war thing.
-
Have you ever seen such antagonistic posts aimed at Laz. Sheeeeesssh I`m mortified. :D
-
The only reason I may ever quit this game that I've played incessantly for some years is HOARDS. No matter the size of the map, if its prime time....there are 4-5 sectors which contain ALL the nmy planes, flying in a protective borg cube...no fights to be had...only slaughters. Then I look to comabt arena...if its zekes against 25k f4f's..then i look to %#%@# H2H...THEN i go read a book. Too many risk-averse peeps in here.
-
but... but... taking risks is, well...
[size=10]RISKY!!![/size]
-
Originally posted by Shane
but... but... taking risks is, well...
[size=10]RISKY!!![/size]
Yes. You could lose perks. Or rank standing.
Keep your priorities straight, I say.
- oldman
-
Shane is the biggest scorepotato I've ever seen!
:D
-
cobra... it is the strat guys who depend on Ai not the furballers.
and jakal... this is a first for me too.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
More windex for the monitor please. :rofl
-
Well lets see here. Furballers rely on AI to protect them as they run from a fight and need a hand to get their six cleared. They also rely on AI to defend their fields while they allow the "hordes" to overwhelm your bases. Furballers rely on AI and "strat" guys to ensure their frontline bases are resupplied when those other strat guys are attacking them. Furballers also rely on those "strat" folks to ensure they keep the balance when they become overwhelmed by enemies (bombing those little tool shed thingies). Furballers also rely on those little "strat" guys when their poor dar gets shut down by those other little "strat" guys.
So what was it you were saying again? Oh a furballing area is down the hall in the DA room. Then you don't have to worry about AI for resupplying or protection and you won't be bored by "strat" folks.
-
It's called the DA.
IMHO, AHII is a WWII simulation. Furballing wasn't the main focus. It occured after defending (or while) the buff formations.
My squad tries to run ops that incorporate all aspects. We frequently send up a couple buff flights, bunch of jabos, light fighters, and the needed goony bird. With 100 base captures in December, we are comfortable it's the right formula for success....defined by the goal of the game, "capturing bases....".
I know many just like to furball, but I like that it has to be in the context of the existing game.
Just saying.....
-
cobra... you don't know much about furballers do you?
talon... there is the DA and... there is the CT for the "realism" crowd who want to simulate a war... they are both deserted.
bring the fields closer together and then the "strat" girls will be whining... it is not a funtion of what people want to do so much as what the game allows them to do.
lazs
-
This happens for one reason basicly.
Large Maps and lots of spread out bases.
Its happened many times within the past serveral nights to our little group.
A horde will come in, try to overwhelm a base. When they are met with resistance they go elsewhere.
Now with a small map, they have no choice but to fight.
-
And as far as you go Cobra, I rely on myself abovve all else in a furball. But if you are with a few guys who know how to fight you can work as one. Wing man tactics aren't limited to 10 thousand feet and above.
I rarely expect to live so I'll take as many with me and as fast as I can. Running to ack only prolongs the inevitable. The fact that in a furball you are most likely going to die. What you fight for is out of the chance that you may get lucky and live to land. But thats a distant second to te actual fight itself. Thats how I see it.
-
Nope laz I'm just a newbie. I never learned by fighting in that furball you speak so highly of. I've never watched the furball dwindle away because the strat folks hammered the bases in that area. I never watched the furball come back because those same strat type folks resupplied the bases to keep the fight going so the furballers could in affect defend that area. I've also never sat there and watched as all the furballers whined when some strat guy killed a "good" furball fight either. I've also never watched as the furballers go racing head on into each other spraying at anything that comes near them only to die 2 minutes into the fight.
Good furballers are few and far between. The majority rely on the inexperienced newbies in that furball to get kills. Maybe that's what attracts so many people to the furball. Your guaranteed atleast a few kills because all of the newbies don't know any better and will race right in without having the first clue on how to fight in such a situation. All they know is to follow the hordes towards the furball and get smacked down within the first 30 seconds of being into the "fight". While you watch alot of the experienced pilots sucker those people in then press to altitude attacks either in the middle of the fight or after they get shot down and are coming back. Now you've got your low and slow prey to pick off at will until someone else forces you back to the deck where the majority will most likely die and just repeat the cycle again. But ofcourse I know nothing of how furballs go nor how to fight in such an engagement.
Morpheous and please tell me just how many people here are really worth a watermelon when it comes to furballing? Out of the 400 to 500 people that fly on a daily basis what is the percentage that actually have a chance in a furball to survive? How many actually fly into a furball and work wingman tactics and survive the fight? Furballs for the most part are mindless chaos for the community as a whole. There are very few that can go into a furball and eliminate the opposing force until they have no more ammo left and get back out and land. I can only think of a few squads that would even stand a chance. Meanwhile the rest of the folks only care how many kills they can get before they eventually die, hence my Air Quake comments.
The majority of those in the furball couldn't handle themselves outside of the furball and it shows on a daily basis. You catch them enroute to the furball and they are lucky to survive the 1 on 1 engagements or the 2 on 2 engagements. Once they figure out they can't survive that fight they run to the deck to ack or to the furball to blend in so they can atleast get some kills before they die. So what are the majority of these folks learning in a furball? There are some who will end up learning how to survive for awhile before they die but what kind of percentage of those people are we talking about? Tell me how many times you've been killed by some newb in a furball that if you had the chance to engage them outside that furball wouldn't stand a chance against you? How many of these guys that you see in the furball will take the hoing and spraying that is typically seen in a furball and try to apply that to a basic 1 on 1 engagement only to have it kill them in the end? It comes down to just how many folks that typically fight in furball situations can actually take what they've learned and apply it in a situation other than a furball. The numbers will be minimal I'm sure. Again there is very few really good furballers that can not only survive in the furball but also survive outside the furball when it really matters most. If you can't make it to the furball because you can't kill a single opponent enroute to the furball then what is your only other options? Avoidance tactics or find somewhere else where there isn't blocking forces present prior to the furball.
-
Everyone says that all the furballers should go to the DA....
TOOLSHED KILLERS GO TO DA. You can bomb undefended targets to your heart's content. Just look at the east of the map.
-
cobra... wrong again... there are a lot of guys that are decent that furball that are new or from other games... most of the guys who furball and aren't that great flyu the better planes.
No matter what... their skill level far exceeds the best toolshed killer.
What happens is (I know you know all about itright?) What happens is that the furrball is full of very skilled pilots... semi skilled and not so skilled.. the guys not all that good generally make up for it with plane choice or not flying into to much of a disadvantage..
I am not that good so when three mediocre guys in spits are all on me it is a challenge for my wildcat.... one good guy in a spit or nik or zeke or hurri gives me a real workout... now... put 3 or four of these situations all happening at once in a small area and you have a good furball.
last night I had two BK's fighting in the same furball with me and it was an advantage... course.... they were morph and dipstick so it was tough for me to even get a kill around em.
I still don't think you know what a good furball is.
lazs
Public Relations Officer for the BK's
-
Originally posted by Vudak
Everyone says that all the furballers should go to the DA....
TOOLSHED KILLERS GO TO DA. You can bomb undefended targets to your heart's content. Just look at the east of the map.
What each side fails to realise is they can compliment each other very well in the same arena and each would get what they wanted
Furballers would do great and always have their furball by defending against the horde.
Whilst landgrabbers moved on creating a new place to furball
And I dont agree that the furballers are better pilots then the landgrabbers.
I've found pretty good and pretty poor pilots on both at about the same ratio.
On the other hand. If anyone REALLY thinks they're that good or skilled.
Try being one of the few that actually try to defend against the horde.
I've had far better fights, and often more intence doing that then in any furball I've been in
-
Yep I'm wrong your right. Your the experienced vet and I'm just a newbie. Good day.
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
What each side fails to realise is they can compliment each other very well in the same arena and each would get what they wanted
Furballers would do great and always have their furball by defending against the horde.
Whilst landgrabbers moved on creating a new place to furball
And I dont agree that the furballers are better pilots then the landgrabbers.
I've found pretty good and pretty poor pilots on both at about the same ratio.
On the other hand. If anyone REALLY thinks they're that good or skilled.
Try being one of the few that actually try to defend against the horde.
I've had far better fights, and often more intence doing that then in any furball I've been in
I was just stirring the pot Drediock :)
-
Originally posted by Skydancer
Maybe I'm just not getting the picture but all the complaining I read about "hordes" seems a bit daft!
I think the reason people gravitate toward each other and play one big battle is that it is little fun flying around spending hours looking for an enemy in a sector that is relatively empty.
Seems like common sense to me to go where the action is. I mean if you only play for an hour or so at a time like me then why would you want to go to where the action isn't.
One thing I would like to see is massed bombing raids. I mean big bomber streams.
Can't we just quit moaning about the horde thing.
AMEN
:aok
Canaris
-
Re: Hordes!
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Skydancer
Maybe I'm just not getting the picture but all the complaining I read about "hordes" seems a bit daft!
I think the reason people gravitate toward each other and play one big battle is that it is little fun flying around spending hours looking for an enemy in a sector that is relatively empty.
Seems like common sense to me to go where the action is. I mean if you only play for an hour or so at a time like me then why would you want to go to where the action isn't.
One thing I would like to see is massed bombing raids. I mean big bomber streams.
Can't we just quit moaning about the horde thing.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Canaris
AMEN
:aok
Canaris
Then you dont understand what a horde is or what it does.
The problem with the hordes is they DONT do that.
The horde goes in with hugely overwhelming numbers to a relatively undefended base.
And they do exactly that. They go where the action isnt.
-
Lol Roscoroo. I have an AH1 video in which I dive in on no less then 50 enemy fighters. I get two or three, but I couldn't turn around to make sure. I had 15 on my tail the whole time.
Jamusta's in it too.
-
Originally posted by Vudak
I was just stirring the pot Drediock :)
I know.
It just provided a good opportunity to get that point accross:)
-
Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Try being one of the few that actually try to defend against the horde.
It's the only way to roll :aok