Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Toad on January 07, 2005, 12:20:40 PM

Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Toad on January 07, 2005, 12:20:40 PM
Ex-senators to head Bush tax panel  (http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/07/news/economy/bush_taxes.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes)

Quote
President Bush on Friday appointed two former senators -- Florida Republican Connie Mack and Louisiana Democrat John Breaux -- to head a panel to come up with recommendations on reshaping the tax code...

...Treasury Secretary John Snow said after the ceremony the panel "would take a hard look at everything" and that "everything is on the table." He said the aim would be to reduce complexity in the tax code.




I'm not optimistic but you have to at least try. It'll be fun to watch the accountants and tax attorneys cry though.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: lazs2 on January 07, 2005, 01:10:11 PM
Man... that would be great.

I have allways felt that calling these guys "lawmakers" is the problem.... they feel that it is their job to make laws...they should be called law revisors... they should be looking at useless and unconstitional laws and throwing em out... that would keep em plenaty busy.

lazs
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Mini D on January 07, 2005, 01:19:39 PM
Flat Tax.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: mietla on January 07, 2005, 01:24:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Mini D
Flat Tax.


Yeah!. Everybody (man, woman, child and adult) pays TotalTaxRevenue/Population =~ $10,000 a person.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Steve on January 07, 2005, 01:25:40 PM
Sounds good to me Mietla.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Airhead on January 07, 2005, 01:27:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mietla
Yeah!. Everybody (man, woman, child and adult) pays TotalTaxRevenue/Population =~ $10,000 a person.


So everybody. regardless of income, pays the same amount of money???

That is unfair Mietla. :(
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: AWMac on January 07, 2005, 01:35:25 PM
No Taxation without representation!!!

 Abolish taxes!!!

Get the Goverment out of your pockets.

It's your work, it's your pay!



Raise up and Free America!!!




:aok
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: slimm50 on January 07, 2005, 03:29:10 PM
Rather than the same dollar amount, everyone employed should just pay the same rate: I say 8 - 15%. whatever works out to be reasonable.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Sikboy on January 07, 2005, 04:14:41 PM
All income should be turned over to the government for redistribution by our benevolent overlords.

Flat Tax of 100%

All Hail our Imperius Leader.


Damn this day is dragging.

-Sik
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: mietla on January 07, 2005, 04:25:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
So everybody. regardless of income, pays the same amount of money???

That is unfair Mietla. :(





Why not? The price of bread or a toilet paper does not depend on your income. Why should the price of citizenship depend on it?

Besides that's what the flat means.

Yeah, yeah, I know Mini meant linear not flat.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: rpm on January 07, 2005, 04:34:24 PM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
No Taxation without representation!!!

 Abolish taxes!!!

Get the Goverment out of your pockets.

It's your work, it's your pay!



Raise up and Free America!!!




:aok

So we turn every road into a toll road and make the all volunteer  Army truly volunteer? Who pays the cops?

A 10% flat tax is a much better idea. And let's abolish property taxes while we're at it and make them use a portion of that 10%.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: mietla on January 07, 2005, 04:38:53 PM
Also. You get less of what you tax and you get more of what you exempt from taxes. This is how tax incentives work.


Why don't we stop taxing the rich and start taxing the poor. Clearly we all want more rich folks and less poor. Give poor an incentive to become rich.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: JB88 on January 07, 2005, 04:40:47 PM
end corporate welfare.

period.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: mietla on January 07, 2005, 04:48:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
end corporate welfare.

period.


corporation pay no taxes, they simply collect them for the IRS.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Maverick on January 07, 2005, 05:40:43 PM
Mietla,

Based on your proposal That would amount to almost 50% of my gross income right now. Once I added my wife it would be almost 35%. Yep thats REAL fair there.:rolleyes:
Title: Re: We can only hope........
Post by: Gunslinger on January 07, 2005, 05:54:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Toad
Ex-senators to head Bush tax panel  (http://money.cnn.com/2005/01/07/news/economy/bush_taxes.reut/index.htm?cnn=yes)



I'm not optimistic but you have to at least try. It'll be fun to watch the accountants and tax attorneys cry though.


you should hear all the crying and whineing from all the trial lawyers this week after hearing Bush's speaches on tort reform and ending frivilous lawsuits
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Mini D on January 07, 2005, 05:56:55 PM
No mietla... I meant flat.  Maybe inserting "rate" would have worked better.  Technically, the rate is linear right now... that is... depending on what you use in the x axis and y axis.... % and income.  Though... it is closer to logorithmic if you use taxes paid and income for the axis.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Gunslinger on January 07, 2005, 06:03:58 PM
I'm all for a national sales tax......as long as military PXs are still tax free  :D
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: RedTop on January 07, 2005, 06:16:21 PM
I have a question. Seriously , since I have NEVER in my 42 years of life done my taxes , Why not 2 taxes.

1st one being a flat tax of say 12 percent of your salary. No matter what you make you only pay 12 percent. I'm just using 12 percent as a number as well. So every Joe and Jane working pays the same as far as a percentage goes.

2nd. National sales Tax. Say 3 percent. Imagine how much money you would get that you never see from illegal money made.

Drug dealers and all those types that NEVER pay taxes , would suddnely be paying at least PART of something.

DONT GO OFF on a tyraid....I'm really just wondering if this is even fesable. :)
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: mietla on January 07, 2005, 06:34:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Airhead
So everybody. regardless of income, pays the same amount of money???

That is unfair Mietla. :(


Troll King trolled :)
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: mietla on January 07, 2005, 06:46:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Maverick
Mietla,

Based on your proposal That would amount to almost 50% of my gross income right now. Once I added my wife it would be almost 35%. Yep thats REAL fair there.:rolleyes:


I was trolling of course, but we should be careful with this "I can't afford it, let the other guy pay for it" attitude as well.


If an avarage person can't afford to pay an average share of total tax revenue (which really is $10,000), maybe the government is just spending to  much?

Don't you think?
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Elfie on January 07, 2005, 06:53:48 PM
Quote
Originally posted by mietla
Yeah!. Everybody (man, woman, child and adult) pays TotalTaxRevenue/Population =~ $10,000 a person.


That would be 40 grand just for my family. My wife and I dont make 40 grand. Guess we would end up in jail for not paying taxes then.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: mietla on January 07, 2005, 06:59:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
Guess we would end up in jail for not paying taxes then.


Not paying taxes is illegal, so I'd say ... yeah. But if you could pay say $20k, your kids could stay outside with auntie.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: ra on January 07, 2005, 07:05:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by RedTop

1st one being a flat tax of say 12 percent of your salary.

2nd. National sales Tax. Say 3 percent.

....I'm really just wondering if this is even fesable. :)

This type of thing is being dicussed by tax reformer groups.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: capt. apathy on January 07, 2005, 07:29:02 PM
no income tax
no property tax

just a sales tax.  you aren't taxed until you spend it. also it would allow those who don't make enough money to hire an accountant to pay a fair rate.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Gunslinger on January 07, 2005, 08:16:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by capt. apathy
no income tax
no property tax

just a sales tax.  you aren't taxed until you spend it. also it would allow those who don't make enough money to hire an accountant to pay a fair rate.


like I said, I'm all for it as long as Military exchanges are tax free!  :D   That would be a real benifit to provide.

However, knowing AAFES (the company that facilitates our stores) they would probably raise all of their prices by 15% to make gouge more money out of us.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: lazs2 on January 08, 2005, 10:57:41 AM
No tax for any family under say 50k and 10% after that.   sales taxes up to state and local.   Gas tax pays for roads and the feds need to have their intake cut in about half...

we do not need federal police like the BATF scumbags.   local police and local sevices are paid by fees and sales tax revenue of which the state and feds would need to stop siphoning off the lions share.

All the feds need to do is to provide for an army and a federal court system.   We can pay the president.... everyone else gets paid by the day.  

lazs
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: JB88 on January 08, 2005, 11:01:20 AM
by god you are a libertarian after all.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Bodhi on January 08, 2005, 11:05:08 AM
Do a basic flat tax of 10% on EVERYONE that works.  

When you retire at a specific age, no more taxes.

I think 10% would be a fair tax for everyone, every company, and every entity except 501c3.  At this point you could eliminate all deductions as well.

The only problem with this idea will be the loss of jobs in the private sector concerning tax accountants.

As for the IRS, you could cross train them to do other jobs like monitoring government spending.

:aok
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Gonzo on January 08, 2005, 11:06:10 AM
Quote
Originally posted by AWMac
No Taxation without representation!!!

 Abolish taxes!!!

Get the Goverment out of your pockets.

It's your work, it's your pay!



Raise up and Free America!!!




:aok


Legalize marijuana and we have...........YAY LIBERTARIANISM, hehe, that makes me laugh
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: lazs2 on January 08, 2005, 11:10:33 AM
no need to tax people under 50k other than the normal sales tax and gas tax.

No tax should be made or raised without a 3/4 vote majority.  

lazs
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: JB88 on January 08, 2005, 11:14:49 AM
an economist friend of mine explained to me that the poor do not pay taxes.  

i asked if i could then claim poverty at the grocery story, the movie theater or the gas pump.

he said that he meant federal tax.

its true, people who fall below a certain level usually get all of their money back.

he said that a blanket flat tax would actually hurt the poor and middle class.

i thought that he was bonkey.

but then, i kinda find it bonkey that people support a grossly expensive military op, yet complain about high taxes and massive deficit spending.

i am all for a flat tax.

i think that it illiminates loopholes, levels the playing field rather than the players and neutralizes the complexity of the tax code which hinders average folk from takng advantage of its shelters.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: JB88 on January 08, 2005, 11:25:07 AM
follow up.

i think that "fair" should be the operative term used when discussing taxes.

fair.  meaning even.

take away inequity in the rules, enforce them fairly.  simplify.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: AWMac on January 08, 2005, 11:57:03 AM
Quote
Originally posted by rpm
So we turn every road into a toll road and make the all volunteer  Army truly volunteer? Who pays the cops?

A 10% flat tax is a much better idea. And let's abolish property taxes while we're at it and make them use a portion of that 10%.


Wake up Suite Judy Blue Eyes....can you not see past your tax forms yet?

Where's your tax dollars go...don't give me the lump sum crap..where DOES YOUR money go?  You have no idea. Where's the representation of your hard earned money going?  Ohhh wait it's going towards Goverment affliated programs that you may not agree with..but that's okay...your just a sheep and you listen to the Goverment when they say "You EARNED this much in a year so WE are entitled to THIS much of your earnings."

Keep lining the pockets of Washingtons Fat Cats...

Hmmmm guess this was challenged before and snuffed by the Goverment...Can we say "Ruby Ridge"?

Don't get me wrong and start flaming me... I'm as Patriotic as the next American... I served 20 years in the Military.

We as a People are overly taxed.  It's time we take America back.  We have families working hard, some holding down 2 or 3 jobs just to make ends meet and the ones getting breaks are the elite, silver spoon in the mouth types.  Who is hurting the most in this picture.

I believe Teachers, Police and Firemen should get paid more.  But they don't.  Why?  Where's the Justice?

Opps gotta run, Black Choppers overhead....

FREE AMERICA!!!

*End of Transmission*
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: mietla on January 08, 2005, 11:58:01 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88

fair.  meaning even.



so you agree, $10,000 for everybody.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: mietla on January 08, 2005, 12:04:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88


but then, i kinda find it bonkey that people support a grossly expensive military op, yet complain about high taxes and massive deficit spending.
 



The military is one of the very few legitimate expenses by the feds and it constitutes avery minor portion of the budget (20%). It is not the military spending that causes the deficits and if you ask me, I want absolutely the best equipment for our troops.

(http://www.northoltwing.com/~mietla/budget2004.jpg)
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: AWMac on January 08, 2005, 12:38:41 PM
Hmmmm FBI, CIA, INS, Secret Service, Now HomeLand Security, Ex Presidents, BATF, oppps forgot the Dept of the Interior, Department of Forresty...Ohh almost forgot the Border Patrol.... yet illegals and terrorist slip through...Wait I have to remember what do American AmbASSidores do now?

  You figure in all the $$$ that they are hauling in and think, think really hard now....how many children are going to bed hungry in West Virginia or any other State in America?...Yet we send aid to help the 3rd World improverished Countries around the Globe.  

There's an old saying I remember from my Grandmother...

"Take care of home first then help the rest."

She was wise.


Mac
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: AWMac on January 08, 2005, 01:39:10 PM
Hmmmm Federal tax, State tax, Property tax, paying tax everytime I buy stuff at the store, gas? ..tax...tax this, tax that...

Ohhh it's okay it's just a 2 penny tax.

Lets tax cigarettes,
Lets tax alcohol

Hmmmm Remember the Boston Tea Party?

Think Hard.

Oh BTW you will NOT make your OWN money until after May 6th 2005.... so save alot for Christmas!

Think really hard.

Mac
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: DREDIOCK on January 08, 2005, 02:20:06 PM
Im for a flat tax rate of say 20 on the federal level and 5% on the state level for everyone, no exeptions no deductions.

if you make $1 or 1 trillion you pay 25%

Everyone pays their fair share.
there are no free rides for anyone including the poor (nor should there be)

IT would never happpen though.


It would put too many accountants,H&R block type companies out of buisness as well as mass layoffs at the IRS.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Rolex on January 08, 2005, 04:26:08 PM
A flat rate income tax is just a pipe dream. The people who make tax laws, enforce tax laws, calculate it, advise about it, spend the taxes and litigate in tax court have no interest in making it simpler.

I believe a federal rate of about 8% would generate the same amount collected under the current 'system' but the tax system is a business -- an industry. It is a mechansim built to manipulate, reward, punish and most of all, to transfer wealth.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Lizking on January 08, 2005, 04:59:03 PM
The country did quite well for it's first  150  years with no sales or income tax, and that is the basis from which it should be approached.
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: Silat on January 08, 2005, 05:28:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Rolex
A flat rate income tax is just a pipe dream. The people who make tax laws, enforce tax laws, calculate it, advise about it, spend the taxes and litigate in tax court have no interest in making it simpler.

I believe a federal rate of about 8% would generate the same amount collected under the current 'system' but the tax system is a business -- an industry. It is a mechansim built to manipulate, reward, punish and most of all, to transfer wealth.



Damn. We think alike. Hmmmmm maybe I should cancel my visit to my Pendekar De Thouars in LA and then to Hooooston and come instead to Japan? :)
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: lazs2 on January 09, 2005, 10:24:37 AM
second time rolex said something I agree with..

Rpm.... are you serious?   If we took the current money that is extorted from us on every single gallon of gasoline and put the contract out to bid for that sum.... we would have gold plated higways that were smooth as a babies butt at 120 mph.  don't need toll roads... use the current sales tax on it and put it in an enterprise fund for roads only.

lazs
Title: We can only hope........
Post by: JB88 on January 09, 2005, 04:02:43 PM
while we are at it...

im pretty sure that i could come up with an alternative energy plan for 87 billion plus dollars.

off the OPEC crack pipe!