Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: jamusta on January 07, 2005, 12:22:54 PM
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I have a problem avoiding the initial lead shot on the merge. No matter how I try to avoid it I constantly get hit. How can I correct this? It seems the steeper I dive whether it be to the left or to the right from d200 or d800 the more they spray. If they miss the shot usually I can win the fight but I noticed players are getting better at aiming for this shot. What can I do better?
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Thats one I've been practicing.
Wait for the con to make his move then use rudder and nose down and let him fly through the stream.
Got pretty good at getting hits at up to d800.
Still very much hit and miss (pardon the pun) though. Suppose you could try diving earlier or I have been trying flying as though I am going for a HO then pull up and over right in front of them. Yup you risk getting your belly raked.
On the subject of HO's (not you in particular) but if someone is heading right for me I will always wait to see if they fire 1st (dumb I know) but gives me an idea of what I'm up against.
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At about 1.5 away I start to break off to the right nose down a bit, then as we get closer I break across their nose below them slightly, to the left,and then start up and turn. This gives them a below the nose, and higher deflection shot,plus puts them in a bad merge attitude from the get go. Sometimes I'll take a ping but not often.
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Jamusta please go to the training arena for further combat aeronautical advancment. classes start soon ,
OH WAIT ARNT YOU THE ONE WHO TRAINED ME?:D :D :D
VIC
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Vic stop stalking me....
I wuv you tho
Oh and I was thinking of changing back to Strike Bandits since I am the only one who flies the P51
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It seems the steeper I dive whether it be to the left or to the right from d200 or d800 the more they spray.
Thats the whole problem right there....your initial merge profile is bas ackwards.....
Try this...As soon as the con is inside Icon range start a very gentle dive (I mean gentle) (this assumes co-alt or he's lower)...you want to be slightly (500 ft) under the other guy....at about 3.5 out angle a little away from him...your creating the horizontal/vertical seperation early...at 2.0 or so begin to turn back into the con...at 1.5 begin to pull up into the con. Obviously you'll need to react to what he does but you'll have little problem learning to avoid shots from this general position...
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Thats one I've been practicing.
Wait for the con to make his move then use rudder and nose down and let him fly through the stream.
Got pretty good at getting hits at up to d800.
Still very much hit and miss (pardon the pun) though. Suppose you could try diving earlier or I have been trying flying as though I am going for a HO then pull up and over right in front of them. Yup you risk getting your belly raked.
On the subject of HO's (not you in particular) but if someone is heading right for me I will always wait to see if they fire 1st (dumb I know) but gives me an idea of what I'm up against.
Your one of the few whos dinged me that way...very few guys hit that shot...
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I shall never talk of you again bro vic is no more.
POOF
VIC
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Awww comon VIC pls????? I miss you already
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I usually try to get a little lower than them, gain a little separation off their nose, then break back into them at around 1k. As I am breaking back into them (again from lower if possible) I'm looking for tracers or muzzle flashes. If I see them I'll barrel roll around them or roll (or even start a barrel roll) to pull towards their belly. Breaking towards their belly works very well for the ones that get inverted trying to match your initial barrel roll since you maintain a good position for gaining angles on the merge. I would guess 75% of the time I take no hits, 20% of the time I take a few useless pings, 5% of the time I get damaged/dead.
I do all of this because I can't return a HO attempt with an effective HO attempt (or snapshot for that matter) of my own and have to resort to flying my plane instead lol.
Zaphod
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Barrel roll and/or random juking.
g00b
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Originally posted by g00b
Barrel roll and/or random juking.
g00b
Not sure how you set up for a merge but a barrel roll prior to any sort of a merge wouldn't work well for me one bit.
You can usually see it comming with enough time to avoid it. A lead merge is always nice. And many times unexpected.
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Originally posted by streetstang
Not sure how you set up for a merge but a barrel roll prior to any sort of a merge wouldn't work well for me one bit.
You can usually see it comming with enough time to avoid it. A lead merge is always nice. And many times unexpected.
A barrel roll works just fine, but leaves you nothing for a reversal. I pull this move when I turn and ... rut roh ... another guy is going HO and I want no part of it.
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Originally posted by jamusta
I have a problem avoiding the initial lead shot on the merge. No matter how I try to avoid it I constantly get hit. How can I correct this? It seems the steeper I dive whether it be to the left or to the right from d200 or d800 the more they spray. If they miss the shot usually I can win the fight but I noticed players are getting better at aiming for this shot. What can I do better?
Hiya Jamusta
maybe you've just been unlucky a few times. Most guys who take HO's can't shoot for nuts, due to their newness in the game.
Personally I like to dive for speed and vertical separation and then pull up oblique into a lead turn across their nose , get hit very rarely, but you can be unlucky.
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Pretty much the same here, if we are co-alt I do a shallow dive, and sometimes a very gentle turn to my right, then when the time is right (depending on our combined closing speed) I break up and hard left back into them. I never try for a shot as I only want to avoid the HO, and gain angles as they blow by. It is very rare that I get any pings when I try to avoid the HO.
Go D/L Shanes films in the DA with I think it was Waffle and Blumeeni, and you will see it done like I do only better. :)
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It does seem to be a timing issue...............
Pulling up too early or too late can present him with such a snap shot............
Early.....well obviously he sees you all the way
Late......... he has already decided not to take the classic merge..... maybe beacuse you went nose down earlier............he makes a part aileron roll and uses rudder to track you with lead on his sights. (ruddered you are tracked to the left or right of his gun sight and not hidden under his nose) He then sprays a cannon thru your path.
He is nose down and commited...he cannot pull up to close angle after the merge (or if he does he has sacrificed major E compared to you)...he has to extend and the direction is determined by his attitude during the attempted lead shot.
You have to watch him........if you see him part rolled nose down (pre merge) he is going for it...... counter his roll or use a bit of rudder to put you under his nose and continue your merge to pull up......... aileron roll as you go vertical to immediately track him........... if he extends then convert to hi YO YO to pull to his 6.
If he attempts to pull up too to close angle then the dance begins but he just lost a stack of e.......you are above and behind him and he is pulling a 120 degree to go vert (thru the bottom of the egg) and you just did it with a 90............ you then have to judge his e and choose appropriate angle. Thats where I mess it up.........(judging his e)
The other reason your opponent may have tried the tracking (side slipping ) snapshot was that he was simply way too fast for the merge........unable to close any angle and vulnerable to a well executed lead turn IF he attempted to close angle past the merge.
He may just extend to safety.,......its the easy solution. But be wary of him performing 45 degree climbing extension in fact its a zoom...............you will not be able to lead this (rem he was tooo fast) but to pull to his 6 you may have been tempted to pull hard immediately after going vert........... now he has tons of e and you have just performed a sort of hard chantelle to follow him..........
basically he is attempting a rope with this sort of extension..............deny it and continue in the vertical for max alt...........unless of course you are absolutely certain you can get effective guns on him.
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The problem is when he's diving...it sounds like he's diving as he enters HO range as an evasive...."proper" form is to dive early and establish the under position (with some horizontal seperation ideally) then as others have said you "pull" up and thru on the vertical oblique...
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I am no expert but, it seems he is waiting way to late to commit to his merge. So late that he pushing his nose down so hard that his tail is coming up in the air, giving the con a bigger target to take the snapshot at. Instead of being horizontal and making the target as small as possible, he is pointing his nose down and leaving his plane in the vertical, leaving a bigger target for the snapshot.
Wise person told me once, you always need to be out infront of your plane... not in it.
Just my two cents.
Stream14