Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Mogi on October 27, 2001, 08:58:00 PM
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New to AH (few weeks), played AW for a couple of years and got most of my kills between 400 and 650m. Would it be best to set my gun convergence to such settings? I tend to be a better shot than pilot, and rarely maneouvre in close to the default convergence settings for most of the planes.
Thanks!
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The 2 biggest factors in figuring out the best convergence seem to be 1) personal preference and 2) what guns you're using.
In the past when I flew strictly American planes with the 6 .50's I had my convergence set anywhere from 400-450 or so and could get good results at those ranges. This was due to the excellent muzzle velocity and flat trajectory of the Browning .50 cals.
When I started mixing up my plaen choice and flying German crates I had trouble hitting anything at those ranges with the slower firing 20mm cannon and brought my convergence in on those to 300 I believe it was.
Now I'm back flying U.S. but I've brought the convergence in to 300 on those planes as well and it's amazing what you can do to a enemy aircraft with 6 .50's at that range and closer you can just shred things.
If you have the patience, set your convergence at the max effective range of whatever weapons you are using (I'd say 450 for the .50's and 350-400 for cannon) and then try it for awhile and then move it in slowly as you get better. Ultimately it's all about experimentation and seeing what settings give you the best result for your style of fighting. Good luck. :D
P.S. when flying planes with multiple sets of guns like the p51, f6f, p47, etc. most people here I believe (and this includes myself) set all the guns to converge at a single point rather than stagger them at decreasing intervals like 350-325-300, etc. Hope this helps.
[ 10-27-2001: Message edited by: Soulyss ]
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It depends on the plane and your deflection shooting ability.
I find seeting any nose guns to 650 doesn't effect them at all cause they fire on your centerline (well pretty damn close to it). I set wing MGs to 300 and Wing Cannons to 300. Since i never fire except when up close (since i fly the 190 a lot now) Today i set the P47D-30s guns to 300 and tryed it, still was able to hit at long ranges (350-450 is long range to me) and when the got closer BOOM! I ended up getting 8 kills and made it back to base with minor damage
Try different settings out in H2H and see which works best for you.
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Your convergence point controls also your aim point to a degree.
If you set all your guns to converge at 350, when looking thru your sight using the handy dandy .target function, all rounds will hit roughly at your aimpoint at the convergence range.
If you are in a 109 for example with the 30mm gun, setting its convergence to 650, will likely put the shot quite high at 300 yrds
I set ALL guns and gun types at 350
SKurj
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I like a long conversion point so that when I'm in close I can shot both wing roots at the same time. :D
(http://www.swoop.com/images/logo_small.jpg)
[ 10-27-2001: Message edited by: Swoop ]
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in my p47 i have 4-50's@400 and 4-50s@300. I tried all at one range but its a little bit overkill to have all your power focused at one point.
I find this more effective for me, i used to have them all set to 375 and theres little difference besides i can effectively have power in a wider area. Both setting are quiet effective though.
with my MGs set at this range i havent had a problem sredding someone at 500-100 with one burst, because any way you look at they are still being shot with 8-50s.
Its kinda pointless to put your convergence closer than 300 in a p47 because closer than that range all those flying 50 cals are going to shred what evers in the way reguardless.
Dont fly cannon bird cant really offer much info on those convergences.
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Mogi the 400-450 range for your convergence should be real comfortable for you. I use 450 and like the success.
Drex
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I like to get real close. Now, if havent figured out, this is mostly personal preference and how you percieve the results.
I set mine in my Jug to 300 yds and it just plain shreds the enemy at convergence. when I am in a spit, I have my convergence set to 250 yds. I only use the 303's with both spits.
I just prefer the shorter ranges. Incidentally, I die too much to collisions :)
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In my spit,I set mg's to 550 for "spook" ammo,and my cannons to 300 for when he turns.<S!>
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Ive been kicking this around in my head since pondering the most effective convergence for a BNZ ac, mainly the manly 50 cal shooters.
Wouldnt it make more sense to stager the convergence of these guns?
i say this because if your flying right(bnz) your are closing on your target quickly and you can have a converged hitting patern covering a broader distance. As apposed to having supreme power for the .01 seconds that you are at "400" if they were all set to 400.
If your turn fighitng you would want to have them converge at one point since you wont be hitting and skipping.
just my thoughts, what does anyone think?
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I don't really think so Aamon. I think having MAX hitting power at one point is the way to go.
Lets take a 6 .50 cal armed plane. What good is having 2 guns converge at a different point than the other 4? Its not.. 2 .50's converged or not aren't gonna do much.
Having all 6 .50's converge at the same point: When flying BnZ those 6 50's hitting one point at convergence stand a VERY good chance of doing crippling damage, while 4 may not. When flying TnB, high closure is not desired, therefore a single convergence is fine.
In a JUG, I would recommend all 8 converging at the same point for the same reasons, and more. In the JUG you want the first burst to be the last, ALWAYS! Why take a chance by diluting your power?
SKurj
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I used to have all my planes that use 50's set at 650. I am one of those guys that likes to reach out and touch someone. Also, since I usually fly one of the slower planes in the arena, it would give me a better chance of causing significant damage to a plane after I forced the overshoot.
About a month or so ago, I changed to 500. This has done my shooting a world of good, and I love it, particularly the deflection shots.
The main thing, IMO, is find something that you are comfortable with, and stick to it for a bit. If you change it all the time, you will never get a feel for when to open up on some poor soul who has made himself ready to meet his fate (well, virtual fate at least :))
-math
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.50's in the F6F at 275 works for me still get good hitting power out to about 500 after that its just tickle em to turn stuff.
Used them out to 600 before and still easy to get kills but in close when its dangerous i like to kill em quick with a snap shot at convergence.
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Agreed Cavalier,
After much experimentation over man months, I eventually settled on 275 for all guns on the .50 armed planes. In the Jug if I hit anywhere near 300 I get good snapshot results. In an E fighter sometimes one snapshot is all you get, so I tune my convergence to make those count. I found if I went out to longer distances, the snapshots were not paying off nearly as well.
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Hurm..
I find with mine stagered i get more kills booming in on someone. but i do suffer a loss of power when im saddled on someone. since i dont like to sadle anyone while flying a jug i use them staggered.
Ill have to switch um to all pointed 450 and see if what you say is true for me, ive had mine stagered for a while now and just recently it seems my gunnery in general improved so that could have been the problem before
the staggered formation just makes sense to me though. as you close in you got converged hits from 400 to 250 insted of one converged hit (more powerful though) at 400.
now that i think of it seems like it would almost be a balance of power, because you either get one quick big hit or a drawn out big hit. the quick hit would be more effective because you may not have enough time/aim sollution to have the long hard hit.
ill try out your advice.
[ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: Am0n ]
[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: Am0n ]
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With my D pony I stagger the guns 300, 350 and 400. Thus when I'm anywhere near my favourite range of 350 I've got at least one pair of guns at convergence. The pattern of hits is such that you still get good hitting power between 300 and 400, good enough for snapshots to work well.
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I guess there are many ideas +) another way to look at it would be this...
You have your convergences staggered, as you boom in on the bogey's 6, you open fire the first set gets into convergence and passes through, the second set now moves into convergence and passes thru
You set all guns to same point, you come in on bogey's 6 movin at a good speed you open fire outside convergence, you close to convergence, and then are able to walk all 8 converged guns down the length of the badguy doin max damage..
I used to use staggered, nowadays I like em all together, plus it means when i look thru my site and put the dot on the con at 350, I know all guns will hit that point. When staggered and u see that con at 350, some of your guns may shoot hi or lo depending on your convergence setting.
My thots
SKurj
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I agree that convergence setting is all about personal preference. As a fledgling no-skill mediocre 109G-6 driver :D, the first pass is all that matters to me usually. In the MA environment, its either I drop my target on the first pass or can't drop him at all. So, most likely the first chance is all I would get, and thus, I want my target out of commision. Can't really afford to tangle and chase some one in a G6.
So, I set my convergence at 225. I don't get as many kills as most pilots who definately fly better than me, but you can bet my target is definately dead if I succeed. :)
一擊必殺 : "One hit to definately kill" :)
[ 10-31-2001: Message edited by: Kweassa ]
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ubb bug.
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I used to use staggered convergences as well, but I do not any longer. After a long trial of both methonds, I settled on all 8 guns converged on the same point. I just get more kills and less assists that way in.
If you are going to stagger your convergences, try to do it so that your inner set of guns are set the farthest out. That way each wing creates mini convergence zones where the bullet streams from each wing cross.
There are lots of ways to make this work. The key is to find what works best for you. When you try different settings, be sure to stay with them long enough to really see a difference. Also, practice with your in-flight target so you get a handle on what your firing pattern looks like at. Practice pulling your nose through the target under G load so you understand what happens to your bullet stream under those conditions.
For those of you who have not tried it, you can get a target at any range you want while in flight by typing .target xxx in the radio bar where xxx is range. The target will appear at your altitude to the north. Your bullets make nice punch holes in the target, so you can really see what's happening with your gunnery using this tool.
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In the real WW2 world, pilots used shorter ranges than what you guys are using. The P-51 and P-47 flight manuals, for example, call for harmo ranges from 250 to 350 yards.
All guns were set to converge at the same point (again, flight manual procedure...what individual pilots did was something else).
But, that's the real world! We should do whatever the sim is best programmed to do...and if it allows people to hit at >500 yards, then go for it!
Andy
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You can hit at greater than 500 yards... but you usually don't actually do any damage at that range. I know I can't anyway. The range that myself and others seem to find works best is 275 or 300 with all guns converging... seems to fit right in with the real-life settings too. :) There are some really good shots here that can handle 400 or 450 for convergence, but for most pilots that's a bit too long. When working with new folks, I recommend 250-350 to students... and that's who the real manuals were aimed at too right?
However, some folks in this game are easily 100 times more experienced than real combat pilots were in terms of firing weapons in combat, so it's only natural that some of us shoot well at longer ranges than the standard recommended settings. How many A2A kills do you think Drex has in virtual combat over the years? Heheh, I bet it's a really big number. :) I think it fits in with the real life doctrine rather well given the lack of personal risk and the things we can't simulate like G forces on our bodies.
Andy I think in AH in general, most folks are using 250-350 yards. At least most of the newer folks are. It's only the much more experienced folks that use longe ranges in my estimation. I do agree though that folks should test different settings for themselves, and see what works best for them in the game.
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I get most of my kills at long distance more luck than skill. So i have mine set for between 550 600. But i am a present trying them at 400 and i dont seem to be getting as many kills at this range. Will keep playing till i get nice blance
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Remember, it only works if you also adjust your perception and your shooting distance. Guns set for 600 are going to be firing higher at shorter ranges. Now that you have moved your convergence in to 400, you may be missing if you fire at 300, because you are used to your bullets arcing quite a bit higher at that range and you are now misjudging. It takes quite a while to re-adjust when you make changes like that, so give it time. Also, try 275 for all guns and see what happens. If you fire at 400 or less, I think you'll be very happy with the results.
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Another way to try it is over a nights ops try and note at what range your finger naturally goes for the trigger and try setting your convergence at that point or just under.
Basically after much trial same as Lephturn I decided this was the natural range for me, and did the most damage in the shortest possible time while still keeping guns useable at ranges up to 500.
But of course your mileage may vary.
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Originally posted by Lephturn:
For those of you who have not tried it, you can get a target at any range you want while in flight by typing .target xxx in the radio bar where xxx is range. The target will appear at your altitude to the north. Your bullets make nice punch holes in the target, so you can really see what's happening with your gunnery using this tool.
I read this, so I tried this patterning target last night. Very clever, very useful, very many thanks sent your way in a brown paper wrapper. Here's a follow-up question - how do you turn it off? It played hell with my landing.
- Oldman
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.target 0 turns it off +)
SKurj
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Originally posted by SKurj:
.target 0 turns it off +)
SKurj
Thank you.
- Oldman
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Leph, the .target is a nice addition didnt even know it was there thanks for the info!
Question: If the x function is used to level the plane and your sight is below the bullseye does that mean the sight is position incorrectly?
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Originally posted by Oldman:
Here's a follow-up question - how do you turn it off? It played hell with my landing.
- Oldman
Damn! Why am I not around when this is happening LOL :D
yer ol' buddy Drano
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No Tyro, thats a function of trim, if you are level going slow you will notice your sight is actually aiming hi at the target.
As speed increases more down trim is required to maintain level flight.
SKurj
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Lephturn
Thanks for advice will try it out
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Originally posted by Drano:
Damn! Why am I not around when this is happening LOL :D
yer ol' buddy Drano
Yo, Drano! I imagine you're flying a Gustav of some sort, yes? Probably convergence isn't a big consideration there. This 47 has guns spread everywhere, all through the wings - and I see that in AH you can point some of them this way, some of them that way...the possibilities are astounding.
- Oldman
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Originally posted by Oldman:
Yo, Drano! I imagine you're flying a Gustav of some sort, yes? Probably convergence isn't a big consideration there. This 47 has guns spread everywhere, all through the wings - and I see that in AH you can point some of them this way, some of them that way...the possibilities are astounding.
- Oldman
Actually I thought this game was all about shooting the other planes down with the Gus. You're telling me you can actually fly the other ones? Man! And here I was thinking they were all just targets. ;)
Drano
You didn't really think you'd find me flyin somethin else now didja?
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Ive been trying out something new. i have my hellcats 50s all converged at 200. This is my sweat spot, it normaly rips what ever it hits to peices in one short burst.
I decided to change them to closer because it makes better use of the calibar at that range, over 350 and it looses to much muzzle velocity to be relialable enough to kill in one burst. (although it can, but not normaly.) with convergence @ 200 open up on the enemy at no more than 400, anything further and im just "scaring" them with quick burst. And also further than that its like shooting a shotgun, you may ping but your not going to do substantial damage.
I adjusted the convergnce to hit where i get the most shots in, not where i want to get the most hits in.
So im treating the 50's like they are 37mm cannon rounds in a YAK because at that range with convergence, they are effectively egual if not more powerful.
I have proff of this being awesome for me, 2 nights ago in 3 sorties: first sortie in hellcat 9 air to air kills, second 7 air to air kills and 3rd 5 air to air kills.
(this is great for me, dont normaly even get 3 kills let alone 9) :D
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