Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: gear on January 08, 2005, 09:03:27 PM
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Story in Tampa Newspaper
(http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/navigator/usa.gif)
Will we still be the Country of choice and still be America if we continue to make the changes forced on us by the people from other countries that came to live in America because it is the Country of Choice??????
Think about it .
All I have to say is, when will they do something about MY RIGHTS? I celebrate Christmas, but because it isn't celebrated by everyone, we can no longer say Merry Christmas. Now it has to be Season's Greetings. It's not Christmas vacation, it's Winter Break Isn't it amazing how this winter break ALWAYS occurs over the Christmas holiday? We've gone so far the other way, bent over backwards to not offend anyone, that I am now being offended. But it seems that no one has a problem with that.
This says it all!
This is an editorial written by an
American citizen, published in a
Tampa newspaper He did quite a job; didn't he? Read on, please!
IMMIGRANTS,
NOT AMERICANS,
MUST ADAPT.
I am tired of this nation worrying about whether we
are offending some individual or their culture. Since the terrorist attacks on Sept. 11,
we have experienced a surge
in patriotism by the majority
of Americans. However, the dust from the attacks had
barely settled when the "politically correct! " crowd began complaining about
the possibility that our patriotism was offending others
I am not against immigration, nor do I hold a grudge against anyone who is seeking a better life by coming to America Our population is almost entirely made up of descendants of immigrants. However, there are a few things that those who have recently come to
our country, and apparently some born here, need to understand. This idea of America being a
multicultural community
has served only to dilute our sovereignty and our national identity. As Americans, we have our own culture, our
own society, our own language and our own lifestyle. This culture has been developed over centuries of struggles, trials, and victories by millions of men and women who have sought freedom.
We speak ENGLISH, not Spanish, Portuguese, Arabic, Chinese, Japanese, Russian, or any other language.
Therefore, if you wish to become part of our society, learn the language!
"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan.. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women,
on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented It is certainly appropriate to display it
on the walls of our schools. If God
offends you, then I suggest you
consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture.
If Stars and Stripes offend you, or
you don't like Uncle Sam, then you
should seriously consider a move
to another part of this planet. We
are happy with our culture and have
no desire to change, and we really
don't care how you did things where
you came from. This is
OUR COUNTRY,
our land, and our lifestyle. Our First Amendment gives every citizen the
right to express his opinion and we
will allow you every opportunity! to do so. But once you are done complaining, whining, and griping about our flag, our pledge, our national motto, or our
way of life, I highly encourage you
take advantage of one other great American freedom,
THE RIGHT TO LEAVE.
It is Time for America to Speak up
If you agree -- pass this along;
if you don't agree -- delete it!
AMEN
I figure if we all keep passing this to our friends
(and enemies) it will also, sooner or later
get back to the complainers, lets all try,
please
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"In God We Trust" is our national motto. This is not some Christian, right wing, political slogan.. We adopted this motto because Christian men and women,
on Christian principles, founded this nation, and this is clearly documented It is certainly appropriate to display it
on the walls of our schools. If God
offends you, then I suggest you
consider another part of the world as your new home, because God is part of our culture."
This contradicts the hell out of his rant about freedom. And I'll say this: I know no intelligent people who think "God" is a part of their culture. Everybody I know who thinks so is right wing, racist scum (there's a lot of that in Texas). My Aunt's a racist, as well as my Uncle, my Mom, and three of the six people on my block. And they're all devout Christians. Republicans too, I might add. I will say that it's different for Catholics. I've got Catholic friends who are a lot like me. They're a different breed.
Another thing: Could all of the Italian, Polish, and German immigrants speak English when they came to this country? No. Much of the Northeastern population is a mix of these nationalities, and they all speak English now. America's known as a "melting pot", and will continue to be one. Do you actually think that all of the Mexican and Latin American immigrants in the Southwest are going to be around for hundreds of years? Their children usually speak English, and are just like any other American kids.
You can probably see that I'm getting sick of the oppresive, authoritarian stunninghunks who write this crap. I'm not sorry if this offends any of you religious zealot types, because you people offend me on a daily basis. The only relief I get is when I spit on the cars parked in front of the Cult that's housed a block from me.
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An article like that needs armbands to go with it.
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If you agree -- pass this along;
if you don't agree -- delete it!
[/B]
Thats the part that pisses me off more than anything about stupid emails and opinion pieces. Basically, this fool is saying "I get to have my say, but you don't. I want you to hear me, but I don't want to hear you".
I had an aunt kept forwarding me this moronic rants emails. I had to ask her to stop sending any that including this crap.
Have your say, but don't tell people they then can't have thiers.
dago
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Who is stopping you from saying what you want? Get a grip. Christians are the majority. Persecuted? BS
:)
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They're persecuting others. Remember when they burned that gay guy a few years ago? After the Christian Broadcasting channels got word of it, they started their anti-homosexual crap.
You have no idea of how much I despise people like this.
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What I've always found interesting, is when someone asks me what 'race' I am (or just where I'm 'from'), they give me a funny look when I say 'I'm American'.
Then they say, 'but where are you from?'
'um, America'
'ya but where are your parents from?'
'um, america. you know, this country.'
I'm curious as how I seem to be the only American in this country, and everyone seems to be 'from' somewhere else.
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Gear,
I know how you feel. Britain is suffering the same way. It's getting hard to find greeting cards that say "Merry Christmas" and the Christian message is even perceived as "offensive" to other religious groups eg. muslims, hindus.
I don't mind if people want to celebrate diwali or ramadan - as long as other groups (eg christians) can do their thing.
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"Wake up America"...
Hmmm....
There was a time when Germany had the same slogan...
It was called
"DEUTSCHLAND ERWACHE !"
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happy winter solstice
side note: my mothers parents came from Italy, but my mother dosent speak Italian, I asked her why, she said, "my mother told us we are americans now, so speak english"
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gangs of new york. good movie.
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HOLEY JEEBUS THEN NAZIS ARE COMING......THE NAZIS ARE COMING RUN FOR THE HILLS.
so by some of ya'lls thinking ALL muslims are in fact terrorists. Some of you can be really insulting when it comes to christianity. Not all of us want to persicute gays and burn them at the stake. I don't even want to convert you! "EEGADS HE'S USING MIND TRICKS"
In addition not all conservatives are christian and not all christians are conservatives. Maybe based on your thinking I could say ALL liberal blacks are genetically disable and inferior???? Nope I can't say that because its bigoted and just plane wrong.
"all the people I know that think like that are racist" "The nazis had a saying like that once"
Again get a clue! The Christian storm troopers are not going to be knocking down your door to haul you off to re-education any time soon. If anything it's christianity that's constanly singled out and attacked. There's numerous examples of "anti-christmas" junkies that were out in force this year. Whats sad is most of these people probably have a christmas tree in their house and gave out presents on the 25th.
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This has been going on in america since the pilgrims invaded plymoth rock. Relax, vote when the time comes, and live your life as best you can. And love one another. Do not hate.
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well said yeager.
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Hummmmm....... no racism from me,just because I'm now a minority.( adult white male in california):aok
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I know that was a joke, but just to clear some things up:
California's population is as follows: 59.5% White, 10.9% Asian, 6.7% Black, 1% Native American, 0.3% Native Hawaiian and other Pacific Islanders, 21.5% Mixed Heritage and others not reporting, and 32.4% Hispanic.
And really, what would the problem be if a minority finally becomes the majority?
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Paul Havey's at it again.
Charon
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I trust god. Does that mean I'm a racist?
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I pretty well express myself the way I please. Yes, I still say Merry Christmas. If it bothers someone, Oh Well.
The trouble being that a lot of U.S. citizens have no nads. So and so says this isn`t poilticaly correct or acceptable, whatever. A lot cowers down and follows the trend, usualy to further themselves financialy or to be accepted in someone else`s circle. If I have to accept , or pretend to accept something I feel is incorrect to get "in", then to hell with it. I don`t need it that bad.
We were founded on God, (notice spelling. Not Cod), guts and glory. The people that believe in this still are what keeps us surviving. The others are dead weight. There will always be the dead weight. It just has to be kept in perspective.
If something is not worth fighting for, then it`s not worth having to begin with.
Freedom is not free. It`s a constant battle and will always be so.
God bless America.
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maybe im just in the wrong part of the country.
noone seemed to mind my lifesized santa getting serviced by the nativity sheep scene or or the baby jesus battling the giant light cobra arrangement that i had in the yard.
its so hard to find the line these days.
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Originally posted by Dago
Thats the part that pisses me off more than anything about stupid emails and opinion pieces. Basically, this fool is saying "I get to have my say, but you don't. I want you to hear me, but I don't want to hear you".
Have your say, but don't tell people they then can't have thiers.
dago
Dago, that theology has now become fundamentaly American: noone wants to hear anyone's other opinion anymore. It's why we've resorted to forums, b/c we can't get cut off by another speaker.
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Originally posted by Fruda
I know that was a joke, but just to clear some things up:
California's population is as follows: 59.5% White, 10.9% Asian, 6.7% Black, 1% Native American, 0.3% Native Hawaiian and other Pacific Islanders, 21.5% Mixed Heritage and others not reporting, and 32.4% Hispanic.
And really, what would the problem be if a minority finally becomes the majority?
If you break it down by county its a different story. In Orange County whites ARE a minority
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
There's numerous examples of "anti-christmas" junkies that were out in force this year. Whats sad is most of these people probably have a christmas tree in their house and gave out presents on the 25th.
of course the tree, the ornaments on said tree, and the date are all actually PAGAN rituals adopted by christianity to make converting people easier. though i do agree political correctness is getting a bit much.
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gear please change your avatar, i find it disturbing :eek:
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Make up a problem then rant about it.. heck you can get an idiot elected President that way.
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Originally posted by Flyboy
gear please change your avatar, i find it disturbing :eek:
(http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/lilly/hmm3grin2orange.gif)LOL...., You like it? it took a little work(http://smilies.jeeptalk.org/contrib/icw/003.gif)
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I believe in God. I understand that the men who founded our country held Christian values. Our country is the most benevolent country in the history of the world, considering her stature. Our country has the most freedoms in the world. . For over 200 years we have thrived, most of that psent as a superpower with a very high standard of living.
Therefore it is only logical to conclude that our Christian forefathers knew what they were doing when they wrote the constitution.
God may not be part of our culture in your view Fruda. You may not like it, but our country was founded on Christain values and it has done rather well, don't you think?
Are you one of those people opposed to prayer in school? The pledge of allegiance? "In God We Trust" ?
Do you find someone who has any kind of christian religious symbol displayed in their cubicle offensive?
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I do not find in orthodox Christianity one redeeming feature.
--Thomas Jefferson
"Religion I found to be without any tendency to inspire, promote, or confirm morality, serves principally to divide us and make us unfriendly to one another."--Benjamin Franklin
"...no man shall be compelled to frequent or support any religious worship ministry or shall otherwise suffer on account of his religious opinions or belief, but all men shall be free to profess and by argument to maintain, their opinions in matters of religion, and that the same shall in no wise.. affect their civil capacities."--Thomas Jefferson"
"...our civil rights have no dependance on our religious opnions, any more than our opinions in physics or geometry"--Thomas Jefferson
"And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in showing that religion and Government will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together."--James Madison
"All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian, or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit."--Thomas Paine
"One of the embarrassing problems for the early nineteenth-century champions of the Christian faith was that not one of the first six Presidents of the United States was an orthodox Christian."--The Encyclopedia Brittanica, 1968, p. 420
As the government of the United States is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion,--as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion or tranquillity of Messelmen, --and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mohammedan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinion shall ever interupt the harmony existing betweenthe two countries"--Treaty of Tripoli in 1797, Article XI, written by Joel Barlow (USA diplomat) and Hassan Bashaw (of Algers), late during George Washington's second term and later
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ratified by President John Adams. Original and copies preserved in the national Archives in Washington, DC. under Treaty series no.358. Official Senate treaty found in the American State Papers, Foreign Relations, II p. 18-19. "Treaties and Other International Acts of the United States of America" vol.2, edited by Hunter Miller, US. Government printing office, 1931, p.349-385.
an article written by a priest regarding the topic. (http://www.theology.edu/journal/volume2/ushistor.htm)
i do not mean to impinge upon your faith, rather i wish to dispell the notion that our founding fathers were christians. some were. many were not.
we were not "founded" on christian values. if anything, we were founded upon a modfied form of a european value system, better tuned to an expanding frontier whose optimism and progress were more influenced by the age of reason.
and that the values which you are reffering to were those which were in part formed in opposition to the abuses of the church in europe.
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we were not "founded" on christian values
I'm not going to educate you, you've got some reading to do. Get back to me when you are informed.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Make up a problem then rant about it.. heck you can get an idiot elected President that way.
Too bad that did'nt work for Kerry.
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I'm not going to educate you, you've got some reading to do. Get back to me when you are informed. - steve
steve,
perhaps you missed the parts that i added after, especially the article which i have linked sir.
you might reread them. or perhaps you have fixated on my statement which goes against your beliefs and have chosen to ignore them.
i am well informed on the subject sir and have read much on the topic.
so its fair to say that i am officially getting "back to you".
perhaps you might direct me to something that would counter these quotes and observations? you being learned and all, i suspect that you have a vast arsenal that you are simply holding back so as not to hurt me.
well, fire away! i have no trouble with accepting a different perspective once adequate proof has been provided.
would be most appreciated i am sure.
88
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Make up a problem then rant about it.. heck you can get an idiot elected President that way.
Nah, I don't think so MT.
I mean they tested your theory in the last two elections and neither Gore nor Kerry won.
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You need go no further than the first paragraph in the declaration of independence. Most of its signers were Christain. There was a motion to substitute "Jesus Christ" for "God" but it was wisely struck down, in spite of the vast Christian majority because:
in proof that they meant to comprehend, within the mantle of its protection, the Jew and the Gentile, the Christian and Mohammedan, the Hindoo and Infidel of every denomination.
In otherwords, while mostly Christian, they didn't want to force their religion on anyone.
Interestingly enough, although the majority of the signer were, the author of the Declaration was not necessarily a Christian. It is an ongoing dipute. What is clear is that Jefferson valued civil rights above anything else and did not want them dependent on religious opinions.
Additionally, osme States had religious declarations in their individual constitutions. Massachusetts:
"the happiness of a people, and the good order and preservation of civil government, essentially depend on piety, religion and morality."
All of those who particpated in the debates about the constitution(of Mass) were Christian, though of differing churches.
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steve,
thanks for your reply. glad to see it.
i am heading off to the sack, but look forward to responding tommorrow.
we may need to have to clarify a few terms so we dont walk circles around what i find to be a very interesting subject.
i remain in disagreement, but i think that i just understood why.
ill get back on this pronto.
until then.
88
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Originally posted by Steve
You may not like it, but our country was founded on Christain values and it has done rather well, don't you think?
Steve! Long time...
Not saying you're wrong in what you say, and you know I'd never flame YOU ;) but I have a question.
If the US was founded on Christian values, why the need for the 1st Amendment? I thought that a big part of the mass migration to the US from Europe in the 19th century was to escape religious persecution - not the only issue of course. I always thought the US wanted to protect the beliefs of those who had been persecuted in the old countries.
I've been to the Ellis Island "museum of immigration" (don't recall its official title) in New York (twice) and read a lot of the material provided there. There were immigrants from many different countries and religious faiths, though many were probably branches of Christianity. However, New York itself ended up with a huge number of Jews, and there are more jews living in NY state than in Israel. I myself have been to many social gatherings in NY, and it was not unusual for the gentiles like myself to be outnumbered by Jews.
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Like you said, the Christian religion doesn't exist as a large hole, but as a bunch of different branches and beliefs. Throughout history it has been a Human Past time to beat up those religous beliefs that are weaker than you and not in power.
What the founders were pretty much saying was that "Our freedoms are given to us by God. And in this new country, any god of yours is good enough to be in the USA."
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Make up a problem then rant about it.. heck you can get an idiot elected President that way.
ACLU and The NAACP do it all the time. jesse jackson and al sharpton can run for president that way.
Welcome back MT missed you there for a while. Happy new Year, and Merry Christmas.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Make up a problem then rant about it.. heck you can get an idiot elected President that way.
MT is 100% correct as usual. in fact a few times it has actually occurred. Franklyn Roosevelt, Harry Truman, John F. Kennedy, Lyndon Baines Johnson, James Carter and Billy Jeff come immediately to mind. whew, thank God it didn't occur in 2000 or in 2004. though 2000 was a close call. :D
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whoever wrote that article couldve done a much better job imo.
Hes right in the part of the nation adapting to the newcomers instead of the newcomers adapting to their new home.
This political correctness and minority crapola... sigh.
Here's a little something for ye to consider:
Im from Colombia, South America. Born and raised there, immigrated to the USA when i was 19.
My parents were also born and raised and lived all their lives in Colombia. However, the generations before that came from other countries.
Grandparents&Great-Grandparents came from USA, Sweden and Spain.
Genetically im 'white'. Culturally im hispanic.
When i started college in the US i was looking over some scholarships i could apply... bear in mind that I had no idea back then how things worked here.
So I began to look at the different scholarships...
out of a list of about 20, I found i could apply to about 8 of them because i was hispanic. I could apply to about 4 of them because they were open to all. The remainder i could not apply to because i wasnt black or asian.
Some of my classmates were applying for the scholarships as well... they were white guys and girls who were born and raised in florida, us citizens from birth.
It seemed so wrong to me that they could only apply to 4 scholarships while i could apply to 12.
Then i learned it was because I was in florida and that because of the huge 'minority interest groups' in the government that there was so many scholarships for hispanics.
SO wrong in my eyes i was so disgusted i didnt even apply for any. I didnt really need it but it wouldve been nice to have.. but some of my classmates REALLY needed it. And they were limited to... 4. *sigh*.
I have worked from housekeeping to tech support to mortage and cable co. costumer service.... in all those jobs I find that companies have 'spanish' lines for their hispanic customers....
and ive ended up in those lines. Without exagerating, 8 out of 10 callers cant speak english at all yet have been in the US for years if not decades. These companies have those spanish lines because of that, not because of tourism or to be helpful to the recently arrived immigrants.. no, its because of these hordes of people who dont bother to learn the language of the country they go to live in.
worse still, i get paid MORE than my collegues because of this. $1 to $2 more per hour.
If that wasnt enough, while working for the cable co. there was a massive layoff ... co. cut down from having about 800 CSR's to a mere 250.
I didnt lose my job because i was hispanic i later learned. The Co. either couldnt afford to lose whatever statistics the government requires them to have (not clear on this yet.. they give them tax breaks or they mandate them to have a certain % of minorities employed or something like that) or they couldnt afford to let go the spanish line CSR's (which we were about 20).
All this is bullcrap in my opinion. I was discussing this with a co-worker friend of mine one day while i was working in tech support, about all the unfairness of the thing.. and later that day i got called up to human resources because of an HR issue.
Some cuban girl had overheard what i was talking with my friend and reported me to HR for racism.
Can you believe that?
The HR manager was very serious with me discussing the whole deal. I was about to laugh my bellybutton off but tried very hard not to... although it was clear to him that i found the whole thing amusing and dumb.
He saw it my way when i told him i was hispanic. They called in the girl who began to accuse me of all loads of stereotype racism-accusing crap... then I answered to her in spanish and she just STOPPED. Her tone changed completely after that.
If I had been a US born white guy in that situation i wouldve had that HR ticket stuck in my record forever screwing any chance of promotion or perhaps even lost my job.
But because I was hispanic all the sudden the HR issue was 'dropped'.
Kinda the same thing chris rock does making jokes of black people and racism and stuff and its funny.. and as he said it, if a white guy made the same jokes it wouldnt be funny.
Its a sad state of things really :(
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Originally posted by storch
MT is 100% correct as usual. :D
Thank you.
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I'll refer you to the Boondocks cartoon I saw in the paper the other day.
All it was, was those two kids standing there as a white jogger ran past. They said, "White People."
That's it.
What if it was the other way though.
What if two white kids were just standing there. In the frame is a black guy running with a VCR under his arm. The two kids say, "Black People."
What do you think would have happened?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'll refer you to the Boondocks cartoon I saw in the paper the other day.
All it was, was those two kids standing there as a white jogger ran past. They said, "White People."
That's it.
What if it was the other way though.
What if two white kids were just standing there. In the frame is a black guy running with a VCR under his arm. The two kids say, "Black People."
What do you think would have happened?
Poor baby. I hope you can recover from this horror.
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heheh.
Kinda reminds me of daniel carver's "wake up white people".
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If the US was founded on Christian values, why the need for the 1st Amendment?
Hiya Beet, 88. This is the crux of the issue really. These same Christians who founded our country knew that many people fled Europe because of religious persecution. They recognized that to impose their form of worship via legislation would be to make the same mistakes Europe had made. Being Christian does not mean you will not tolerate how others worship. Additionally, many of our early politicians deliberately steered clear of this debate so as not to appear to favor one religion over the other. Again, they knew that the US had to be a place where people could worship as they saw fit. George Washington is a great exampe of this. His recorded conversations on religion are quite ambiguous. I don't know factually, but I feel this was deliberate for reasons I've mentioned.
Our first amendment is being assailed by the secular whackos like the ACLU almost daily and to date the silent majority* has put up with it. Eventually, they will be fed up and take a stand.
* Again, some may not like this but the majority of the population here is Christian.
Unfortunately, fanatacs on both sides like to argue the point about our country being founded on Christian values. The left will argue with snippets and factoids that show some of our forefathers were not Christian. The right will point to references to God, etc.
The fact is self evident. The vast majority of people in our country at the time, and those who participated in the founding process, were Christian. Therefore, they possessed Christian values that guided them.
This sounds great for the religious right on the surface but does it mean what they claim? I do not think it does to the degree some extremists on the right believe because, as I've mentioned, these very wise men saw that in order for a country to be free, it must be devoid of religious persecution.
In conclusion, I feel that we were founded on Christian values with tolerence for all peaceful religions. The country simply would not have thrived so brilliantly otherwise.
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this all comes from not ending womens suffrage. I don't know what we will do about the sissy city male "metrosexual" liberals tho..
MT, ask your wife what to reply and get back to me.
lazs
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Dangit lazs.. she's busy fixing my lunch. Let me get back to you on that.
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Originally posted by midnight Target
Dangit lazs.. she's busy fixing my lunch. Let me get back to you on that.
Translation: Laz I'm busy fixing my wifes lunch.
Then I must do the laundry and dishes.
Then I have a 3:00 appointment with the hairdresser.
You know a little me time.
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My wife is a Cuban immigrant. She read that article, and agrees with it completely. I agree, also--even though some might find the phrasing harsh. Immigrants should embrace the culture of the United States, while keeping those elements of their home cultures that give them identity. Language skill in English is not a cultural issue as much as it is an ECONOMIC issue. Non English speakers are doomed to the bottom level of the economic pyramid.
Why has it become so bad to express such an opinion? What is really illegal, immoral, or anti-anybody in that article? I say "nothing". One interesting thing I do find here is the Jefferson quotations by JB88, who would probably discount Jefferson's real ideals--slavery, gun ownership, suffrage limited to land owners, and other non-pc viewpoints.
I have been taught, and have read, and studied, that our country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, with an injunction against State sponsored religion. Period. You can read the God word in every founding document, and most (but not all) the founding fathers were men of faith.
Show me where I am wrong.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Maybe based on your thinking I could say ALL liberal blacks are genetically disable and inferior????
Nope, but at least they can spell :lol
Originally posted by Gunslinger
The Christian storm troopers are not going to be knocking down your door to haul you off to re-education any time soon.
Nope, Homeland Security can do that for them.
For Chrissakes, turn off the whoopee AM Radio
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Originally posted by wombatt
Translation: Laz I'm busy fixing my wifes lunch.
Then I must do the laundry and dishes.
Then I have a 3:00 appointment with the hairdresser.
You know a little me time.
Almost got it right.. "wife's"
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Originally posted by rshubert
My wife is a Cuban immigrant. She read that article, and agrees with it completely. I agree, also--even though some might find the phrasing harsh. Immigrants should embrace the culture of the United States, while keeping those elements of their home cultures that give them identity. Language skill in English is not a cultural issue as much as it is an ECONOMIC issue. Non English speakers are doomed to the bottom level of the economic pyramid.
Why has it become so bad to express such an opinion? What is really illegal, immoral, or anti-anybody in that article? I say "nothing". One interesting thing I do find here is the Jefferson quotations by JB88, who would probably discount Jefferson's real ideals--slavery, gun ownership, suffrage limited to land owners, and other non-pc viewpoints.
I have been taught, and have read, and studied, that our country was founded on Judeo-Christian principles, with an injunction against State sponsored religion. Period. You can read the God word in every founding document, and most (but not all) the founding fathers were men of faith.
Show me where I am wrong.
Hey hats off to your wife.
Sounds like she is a realist.
Look it is painfully simple If you move to America you become and American.
And part of that is learning the language and culture of America.
Now that can be done while holding on to ones ethnic background and one can and should be proud of there history.
Respect and patience has to be given by both the indigenous people and the immigrants and with that the blending will begine.
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You haven't answered my question MT.
What do you think would happen if the cartoon I described showed up in sunday papers around the country?
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I'll refer you to the Boondocks cartoon I saw in the paper the other day.
All it was, was those two kids standing there as a white jogger ran past. They said, "White People."
That's it.
What if it was the other way though.
What if two white kids were just standing there. In the frame is a black guy running with a VCR under his arm. The two kids say, "Black People."
What do you think would have happened?
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/255_1105397724_bo050109.jpg)
This cartoon...while I don't see the humor in it I don't see anything wrong with it. If you were to change to color of the individuals I don't see any difference. Why do you need to put a VCR into your hypothetical cartoon...that would change the overall impression. Those are my thoughts, not that they really matter I suppose....:)
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Stereotypes. It's fine to stereotype a white person. We just bend over and take it.
However, what if we start stereotyping black people. What do you think the reaction will be?
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who would probably discount Jefferson's real ideals--slavery, gun ownership, suffrage limited to land owners, and other non-pc viewpoints.
It's amazing you didn't include the other "christians" that founded this country, because that was common thinking back then.
Could anyone please tell me what other religion does the federal government recognize and give days off for? I mean school is out for what 2-3 weeks, everyone gets the day off or at least paid extra for working it. I would just like to know how exactly christians are being persecuted, are you being dragged out of your house and beat? How about discriminated against at work because your christian? Or is your only argument that people don't say Merry Christmas to you around the holidays? Granted I will admit I'm not much of a believer myself but I don't flat out reject the idea there is a god. I just have trouble believing that something out there can control my every move if they wanted to. I also have a problem with thinking the founding fathers were saints, cause it was a common thing for them to own slaves, not care a bit what women think, believe land owners have the only rights, etc.
I will agree on the fact that if you move to this country, the first requirement should be learn the language. I don't see that as being racist, bigot, etc, just common sense. One more thing- I am not anti-american or anything like that, I love this country very much and don't want to live anywhere else. I just don't understand all this talk about christians being so persecuted.
68Parker
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I just don't understand all this talk about christians being so persecuted.
umm could you please show me where all this talk is?
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Originally posted by Steve
umm could you please show me where all this talk is?
Me to...
If you mean by persecution , all the steps that are in the works to remove God from everything that may have god on it...then ok.
But if your talking the old fashion beatings and all that stuff...It aint happening.
As a believer in God and a Christian , I do find it a little disturbing to put it mildly.
But , I'm going to just let them do what they think they need to do to feel "Good" about themselves and laugh when it all comes back to one day bite em in the rear end.:lol
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Nope, but at least they can spell :lol
Nope, Homeland Security can do that for them.
For Chrissakes, turn off the whoopee AM Radio
actually my Radio antenna is broken and I work for a living so its mostly Jet engines that engulf my eardrums not conservative thaught.
The fact that you make fun of me for not "spelling good" is further evidence of your intolerance. Its really rich that you (by you I mean liberals) would make "arm band" and "nazi" comments about what I say and my way of thinking when it really is YOU that are being the fascist....not me. You guys wonder why you can't win elections well I'll tell you. Hate speech of right thinking Americans will get you no were.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Stereotypes. It's fine to stereotype a white person. We just bend over and take it.
However, what if we start stereotyping black people. What do you think the reaction will be?
The reaction would be whatever you allow it to be.
I was in the Pembroke Pines building department picking up some permits. I was having a conversation with a colleague on the pros and cons of living in a deed restricted community. (I'm opposed to the Idea though I live in one) My friend states "well at least you won't come home one evening and find the house across the street painted hot pink and passionate purple". Without allowing me time to respond a corpulent black woman jumps up from her seat and says "waz wrawng wif hot piunck and pupple?" My bud, (a white guy) turns two shades whiter and seemed to shrink two inches. I responded by simply saying "nothing if it's a bathing suit but it would offend my eyes deeply if it's on house in my neighborhood. I stared her down with my best stfu look until she sat down. not another word of conversation was heard in the place while we were there. Her reed thin boy friend didn't even look up. here's my first question Why do you guys accept that behavior either from us (hispanics) the blacks or the moslems? If white folks took the two steps forward approach to those social situations it would be better for all. I don't know anyone who has been a slave and I also don't know anyone who's owned slaves. If I were a WASPY type I assure you that I would not feel the least bit guilty over what happened 150 years ago. Here's my second question. why do minorities insist on dividing a multicultural nation that receives all with open arms? It seems to me the biggest bigots and racists are members of the minorities.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
actually my Radio antenna is broken and I work for a living so its mostly Jet engines that engulf my eardrums not conservative thaught.
The fact that you make fun of me for not "spelling good" is further evidence of your intolerance. Its really rich that you (by you I mean liberals) would make "arm band" and "nazi" comments about what I say and my way of thinking when it really is YOU that are being the fascist....not me. You guys wonder why you can't win elections well I'll tell you. Hate speech of right thinking Americans will get you no were.
It`s spelled antennae. :lol
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Originally posted by Mini D
An article like that needs armbands to go with it.
Best comment yet and not one reaction?
That's sig quality!
eskimo
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Originally posted by eskimo2
Best comment yet and not one reaction?
That's sig quality!
eskimo
Why Bother:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
You haven't answered my question MT.
What do you think would happen if the cartoon I described showed up in sunday papers around the country?
The cartoon you described was degrading to a particular race. The one you find offensive (pictured above) is not.
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Can we go back to sleep now?
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I wouldn't allow the LA riots, yet they happened anyway.
Who says me being a fat american manly man am not offended when they show a skinny White Jogger?
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Originally posted by Steve
You need go no further than the first paragraph in the declaration of independence. Most of its signers were Christain. There was a motion to substitute "Jesus Christ" for "God" but it was wisely struck down, in spite of the vast Christian majority because:
In otherwords, while mostly Christian, they didn't want to force their religion on anyone.
Interestingly enough, although the majority of the signer were, the author of the Declaration was not necessarily a Christian. It is an ongoing dipute. What is clear is that Jefferson valued civil rights above anything else and did not want them dependent on religious opinions.
Additionally, osme States had religious declarations in their individual constitutions. Massachusetts:
All of those who particpated in the debates about the constitution(of Mass) were Christian, though of differing churches.
OKAY. here we go.
quick rebuttal.
a. i dont think that you read the attached article (written by a priest) which clearly details many of the reasons why america was not founded using christian values.
b. massachussetts is one state out of 13.
c. i would like to see a list of the affilated religions of all of the founding fathers who signed the constitution.
proof of that please.
d. if you had read the article you would have found that it was in fact Benjamin Franklin, a known athiest/agnostic who finally suggested that it be added to quell a few folks who wouldnt let the subject drop. those folks wanted to use the word JESUS...but they used GOD instead. GOD does not imply christianity and was applicable to several monotheisitic affiliations...as there were few polytheistic hindus about...this was not a problem.
e. I would argue that it is not christian values, but rather modified european values that the country rested upon.
f. democracy, or demos kratos, meaning "people power" originated in greece. they were polytheistic,
g. the magna carta was a political document not a spiritual one. our constitution relied heavilly upon the magna carta as a guide.
h. to say that it was founded upon christian values assumes that governments are founded on religious principles. we have clearly accepted the separation of church and state since the late 1700's
i. it was a puritanical mindset that existed in many of the early colonial establishments, but in the larger communities it was not, by the time of the american revolution, cities like boston were not exactly what one might consider hives of purity.
j. the country was founded upon individual liberty and the right to fair representation. it was a struggle against a foriegn power and against the church of england which brought it about.
end. part I
respectfully,
88
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If we in USA and Europe did more to help the other parts of the world develop maybe people wouldn't want to come here in such huge numbers.
If the so called christians in our lands put as much effort into trying to help people in the developing world as they did into sloganising restricting peoples rights squabbling about theology and scraping up vast fortunes foer themselves or their precious buildings then I bet their mate Jesus would be a lot happier!
We have immigration because we keep the rest of the world so damn poor.
Cancel the debt for starters.
:rolleyes:
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interesting. hmmm.
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Originally posted by Skydancer
If we in USA and Europe did more to help the other parts of the world develop maybe people wouldn't want to come here in such huge numbers.
If the so called christians in our lands put as much effort into trying to help people in the developing world as they did into sloganising restricting peoples rights squabbling about theology and scraping up vast fortunes foer themselves or their precious buildings then I bet their mate Jesus would be a lot happier!
We have immigration because we keep the rest of the world so damn poor.
Cancel the debt for starters.
:rolleyes:
Go buy yourself a clue. Attempt to import anything of value into your favorite third world nation for an eye opener. I have and did for many years.
look.....
I have a 20 yr old daughter that was perpetually overdrawing her checking account inspite of my giving her a car, paying her fuel and insurance gratis outright. she would "borrow" roughly $200 per month on top of all that. I can afford to do that and much more however I came to the conclusion that the only way she would learn to make her way through the world properly was by understanding that no one rides for free.
The reason rich countries like Mexico (as an example) have a poor populace is because their leaders are incredibly corrupt. Why is the entire continent of Africa such a mess? The African continent may well be the most resource rich on earth and yet..... Any money given for food, clothing, disaster relief or whatever is syphoned off so that a mere fraction reaches the intended recipient.
The only thing we do with our good intentions is line the bank accounts of a select few who have no concern or compassion for any of their fellow countrymen.
Countries like individuals need to make their way through the world on their own resources and there are plenty to go around.
I heard or read recently that India has graciously refused cash contributions in the wake of the recent disaster. India claims it is a matter of National pride and that they will take care of their own. If this is true then we have an example of a third world country that is starting to get a clue.
After six months of initial pouting and the "I knew it, you don't love me" evil eye stares my daughter now pays her own way with no help from me. I'm so proud of her that for her birthday I'm buying her a new pickup truck. :D
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I have no problem with making english the national language and not spending money on anything bilingual except classes available for teaching english.
I have no problem with a nativity scene at city hall so long as it is donated.
I have no problem with someone saying "god bless you" when I sneeze.
My interpretation of seperation of church and state means that no church should have political power. The ACLU's version is that anyone who is not an atheist is the enemy.
I will say tho.... I fear any group that gets too powerful. Large groups are just controlled mobs.
I can't imagine what kind of a pathetic loser would get upset by the generic term "god".
lazs
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Originally posted by Skydancer
If we in USA and Europe did more to help the other parts of the world develop maybe people wouldn't want to come here in such huge numbers.
What kind of meds are you on? Geeeeez get them changed and come back to earth.
How old are you? Do you know anything about our history? Get a friggen clue bud.
We have fed , clothed, educated, fought for and, in general , supported more countries on a long term basis than any country.
What this usualy gets us in return is a big zilch or a stab in the back.
Were the only country I know of that has supported and educated, fed, clothed, etc, etc some our biggest and well known enemies.
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storch, post pics, ill marry her.
and you can lend me $200 a month too :D
(yah im joking.. sort of)
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Originally posted by storch
I'm so proud of her that for her birthday I'm buying her a new pickup truck. :D
(http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/sarge/SierraC3.gif)
Storch... Just faceit man, under that rough and tough image,your just a big softy(http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/otn/love/yllove.gif)
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88, you're just twisting facts I've already given.
You want me to prove that most of the men who signed the declaration of independence were Christian. Over90% of our population at the time was christian. Do you honestly think it is not a reasonalbe conclusion that the siging reps were not around the same percentage? Are you serious?
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does that mean gear isnt changing his avatar?
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Originally posted by gear
(http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/contrib/sarge/SierraC3.gif)
Storch... Just faceit man, under that rough and tough image,your just a big softy(http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/otn/love/yllove.gif)
ya you're right :D
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Originally posted by Steve
88, you're just twisting facts I've already given.
You want me to prove that most of the men who signed the declaration of independence were Christian. Over90% of our population at the time was christian. Do you honestly think it is not a reasonalbe conclusion that the siging reps were not around the same percentage? Are you serious?
well, i wouldnt say that i was twisting. i was simply asking you to provide proof.
it was not intended to be a manipulation.
but ok.
i think that we can agree that
100% of those present were of european stock.
and i wont even ask you to show me a stat that says that 90% of the populous at the the drafting of the constitution were christian.
what i am trying to explain here is that i am of the opinion that good social decency is inherant in advanced society and that religious affiliation is salt to the meat. there were experiments in similar systems during pagean times as well.
it may be an influence in the sense that it something useful for attributing something, but it is not, nore was it the basis for the framing of the government of the united states.
so, in that sense, again, yes, i am serious.
like i said. no disrespect to your faith.
i have my own as well.
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"The cartoon you described was degrading to a particular race. The one you find offensive (pictured above) is not.
__________________
Tah Gut
Midnight Tahgut "
Mt is proof that minorities are the most biggoted and racist groups in America. This has been and continues to be my experiance. Even the ones who admit it do so by stating that it is ok for them to be biggots but not white people. Strange world we live in.
lazs
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IN
:D
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Originally posted by Skydancer
If we in USA and Europe did more to help the other parts of the world develop maybe people wouldn't want to come here in such huge numbers.
If the so called christians in our lands put as much effort into trying to help people in the developing world as they did into sloganising restricting peoples rights squabbling about theology and scraping up vast fortunes foer themselves or their precious buildings then I bet their mate Jesus would be a lot happier!
We have immigration because we keep the rest of the world so damn poor.
Cancel the debt for starters.
:rolleyes:
How typical....bad ol America
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
actually my Radio antenna is broken and I work for a living so its mostly Jet engines that engulf my eardrums not conservative thaught.
The fact that you make fun of me for not "spelling good" is further evidence of your intolerance. Its really rich that you (by you I mean liberals) would make "arm band" and "nazi" comments about what I say and my way of thinking when it really is YOU that are being the fascist....not me. You guys wonder why you can't win elections well I'll tell you. Hate speech of right thinking Americans will get you no were.
Sorry Gunslinger, I didn't realize you were so sensitive. I'll try to take it easier on you. However, anyone that disagrees with you is touted "liberal," so lighten up on the intolerance, you have a great example of one if you ever dared to look in the mirror (don't be frightened, I'm sure you cast a reflection...hehe)
Sheesh, conservatives bruise so EASILY these days :lol
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Originally posted by lazs2
Mt is proof that minorities are the most biggoted and racist groups in America. This has been and continues to be my experiance. Even the ones who admit it do so by stating that it is ok for them to be biggots but not white people. Strange world we live in.
lazs
hehe
Which minority would I be?
and Mr. Lazs... If you don't see the biggoted difference between a white guy jogging in the snow and a black guy jacking a VCR then you are truely blind.
Make fun in the cartoon of their hair style, the way they converse etc.. all no problem with me. But portray one race as an oddly quirky winter jogger and the other as a common thief and you have a racist cartoon.
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You'd have to be pretty dumb to rob a VCR these days. They're practically obsolete. Maybe a DVD recorder would be better. :lol
Arguments like this are always frustrating because you can partially agree with everyone.
I think in the end the whole thing is typically American. Always trying to do the right thing but getting it wrong and getting into trouble with everyone.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
I wouldn't allow the LA riots, yet they happened anyway.
Who says me being a fat american manly man am not offended when they show a skinny White Jogger?
You know, for a "manly" type, you sure are sensitive and whiney ;)
"Waaah, wah, I'm such a victim cause I'm white, Waaah!"
Suck it up little buckaroo.