Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Axis vs Allies => Topic started by: Vudak on January 09, 2005, 11:31:44 PM
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Not trying to flame whatsoever.
I never really fly in the CT but lately the MA is well, the MA... And recently I've found myself looking at the CT for a few sorties.
Problem is, every time I look there is absolutely NO ONE in there. I know it normally doesn't have huge numbers, but I'm talking absolutely no one. Nada, zilch.
Is there some sort of tech problem with the arena going on? I had a problem getting the Tunisia map to work (point in fact, I didn't).
If so, hope you all get it worked out soon, I'd like to fly in there a bit more often if you all wouldn't mind. Just flame me if I'm going against your etiquette, I learn quick :)
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Tuesday's and Thursdays around 9:00pm CST are good times to show up....
As for etiquette I'm sure there are plenty of CT'rs who would be glad to go into details about facts and myths of the CT....
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for my part, the A6M FM is an abomination. it has been changed and the only redeeming quality for that ride is gone. the F6F can turn inside of it now. Until the FM is corrected and representative of the actual Japanese aircraft's I will no longer fly PAC set ups even on squad nights.
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Originally posted by storch
for my part, the A6M FM is an abomination. it has been changed and the only redeeming quality for that ride is gone. the F6F can turn inside of it now. Until the FM is corrected and representative of the actual Japanese aircraft's I will no longer fly PAC set ups even on squad nights.
I agree!
Bad enough dealing with light armor and puny firepower!
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I dont think the A6M has changed much.
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The A6M's changed just like everything else with the structural load "fix", its just some planes were effected more than others. Before the fix the Zeke's (both of them) could pull insane G's and not have a problem. Now you have to be careful that you dont pull the wings off, and even at lower than blackout G's the things creak and groan.
I'm not so sure that is inaccurate, but it is very different from the perfomance of the A6M's before the fix. The Zekes will still easily out turn the corresponding US stuff, just not at as high a speed as they used to, and so things have evened up a bit in turn rate.
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Originally posted by storch
for my part, the A6M FM is an abomination. it has been changed and the only redeeming quality for that ride is gone. the F6F can turn inside of it now. Until the FM is corrected and representative of the actual Japanese aircraft's I will no longer fly PAC set ups even on squad nights.
Gee....
Maybe they can turn easy mode back on for ya:)
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I don't like the change the zero got shortly after 2.0
It got a huge boost in speed, climb, and dive. Not it can dive like a bat outta hell and not break up (compared to its locking up at about 350-400 previously). It's too uber.
I also think that the US planes rely WAY too much on manuvering flaps, and that they are way overmodeled on all US planes with such flaps.
I say they're BOTH overmodeled. Pork 'em both!
Reduce the E retention of the zero, reduce its structural top speed and zoom abilities.
Reduce across the board all manuvering flap use. Make performance much worse after the first notch of flaps is out, at any speed.
That would be much better in my book. Had some great f6f/zero fights back in AH1. Now I see more zeros in HTH rooms than I do spitfires (and that's saying something!!!). I had a white skinned zero out dive my p40E when we were coalt and about co-E (were were both near our top speeds) and from 3k out in a shallow dive down to the deck he roared in at least 100mph faster than me (and me using full wep no less). It was total BS.
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Originally posted by Grits
The A6M's changed just like everything else with the structural load "fix", its just some planes were effected more than others. Before the fix the Zeke's (both of them) could pull insane G's and not have a problem. Now you have to be careful that you dont pull the wings off, and even at lower than blackout G's the things creak and groan.
I'm not so sure that is inaccurate, but it is very different from the perfomance of the A6M's before the fix. The Zekes will still easily out turn the corresponding US stuff, just not at as high a speed as they used to, and so things have evened up a bit in turn rate.
I have yet to take a wing off of a zeke. it does however accellerated stall unbelievably and unrealistically. That simply did not occur according to everything I have ever read on that particular aircraft.
I can't recall being able to pull "insane Gs" in any A6M even going back to AH1 in fact half of the time was spent blacked out even with (mild) 4 Gs being pulled. In any event the result is no axis players, that equals no game. I hope that this is what HTC was trying to accomplish.
I would refer anyone interested to read Saburo Sakai's book "Samurai" and use that as a basis for comparing how the A6M performed in the skies of the Pacific vs the cartoon skies.
In a conversation with Pyro some weeks back he expressed that he felt his modelling of all aircraft is accurate to the best of his knowledge but that he is willing to look at any data.
Crumpp has sent along reams of FW190 documentation to Pyro, who has agreed to correct discrepancies in the FW190 FM if any are found.
This summer (God willing) we will be going to the NASM archieves and I will spend some time looking for Japanese A/C data and other documentation to see if we can provide data for future modelling or modelling corrections.
As it stands I'm not enjoying myself with the current set up so I will not participate.
Furthermore if the modelling issue isn't going to be addressed then they may as well shut down the CT, forget about TOD and any future scenarios. The game needs to be competetively balanced. No one wants to be a drone for the allies.
That's my story and I'm sticking to it. :D
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As you can see Vudak opinions very....
Welcome to the CT :)
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That accounts for the A6M and Ki61 I took on last night with an F6F and beat them. The Ki61 had lots of alt to start with and the A6M was coalt. With flaps I turned inside of the A6M and shot it up. I climbed with the Ki61 useing wep and 1 notch of flaps at the top.
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Originally posted by bustr
That accounts for the A6M and Ki61 I took on last night with an F6F and beat them. The Ki61 had lots of alt to start with and the A6M was coalt. With flaps I turned inside of the A6M and shot it up. I climbed with the Ki61 useing wep and 1 notch of flaps at the top.
that story is so nice it was worth posting twice! :D
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hmmmm ... I've only had a f6f/f4f out turn me in a zeke if my air speed is to high...
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Originally posted by storch
And I thought you just had a bad case of hemoroids.
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Originally posted by storch
The game needs to be competetively balanced. No one wants to be a drone for the allies.
One harangue deserves another.
The game ought to be as balanced as possible, but the fact is that there were very few points in the war when the axis planes were well-balanced with the allied planes. In the Pacific, I'm not sure there ever was such a time.
I don't like flying inferior planes any more than the next guy (well....maybe a bit more...)(just ask me the next time there's a spitfire 5 or 9 in the setup)....but one of the big draws of the CT is SUPPOSED to be that it's as historically accurate as AH modeling allows. I don't want the Japanese planes "adjusted" just so that they will be more competitive. Face it, in 1944 the Zeke was not competitive with most of the US fighters. In 1942 the Wildcat was not really competitive with the A6M2, and AH2 duplicates that pretty well.
And FWIW, I spent a fair amount of time this weekend flying against (and generally getting shot down by) Oleg, who is a pretty good pilot. At low speeds, flaps or not, the Hellcat is not going to outturn a Zeke. Accounts to the contrary herein may have been at higher speeds or in the vertical, but in a plain flat-turn fight the Hellcat is going to lose, whether the modeling has been changed or not.
So. Flying in the CT as the Japanese has always been a challenge (except in 1942). It remains so. Let's just get with the program, Storch, and suck it up.
- oldman
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Originally posted by soda72
hmmmm ... I've only had a f6f/f4f out turn me in a zeke if my air speed is to high...
Same here. I've out turned Zekes in an F4U-1 with full flaps, but that doesnt reflect on the two planes in question, but the pilots. Sakai's book, while a very good read, is not a reliable source for modeling the physics of how a plane should fly.
Just for the record, here is what I think on various modeling issues:
I think the MG151/20 gets shortchanged in its HE hitting power, but the ballistics are as they should be.
I think the Hispano WAS a devastating gun, but the way damage is calculated it might be a bit overdone in AH.
I think the Zeke's are too tough. I cant tell you how many times I've be IN a Zeke and said "Man, I shoulda been dead with that many hits".
I think the Spit V, while it may have had the boost level it has in AH now at one point in WWII, it is just silly to use it in the CT with '42 LW planes.
I think tanks being killed by ANY aircraft gun other than the IL2 23mm, the IID 40mm, or the 9T 39mm is just silly.
I think the Storch wears wimins underwear.
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I'm not replying to you silly descendants of french persons any longer. this does not count as a response. :D
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I'll have you know I'm Scotch-Irish with some English and Native American thrown in. No French whatsoever. :)
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Originally posted by Grits
Same here. I've out turned Zekes in an F4U-1 with full flaps, but that doesnt reflect on the two planes in question, but the pilots. Sakai's book, while a very good read, is not a reliable source for modeling the physics of how a plane should fly.
Just for the record, here is what I think on various modeling issues:
I think the MG151/20 gets shortchanged in its HE hitting power, but the ballistics are as they should be.
I think the Hispano WAS a devastating gun, but the way damage is calculated it might be a bit overdone in AH.
I think the Zeke's are too tough. I cant tell you how many times I've be IN a Zeke and said "Man, I shoulda been dead with that many hits".
I think the Spit V, while it may have had the boost level it has in AH now at one point in WWII, it is just silly to use it in the CT with '42 LW planes.
I think tanks being killed by ANY aircraft gun other than the IL2 23mm, the IID 40mm, or the 9T 39mm is just silly.
I think the Storch wears wimins underwear.
I totally agree with you Gritty on ALL points above :D
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The only time i can turn inside the a6m is when the is around 250. Maybe you are allowing the fight to be 2 fast?
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Originally posted by Grits
I'll have you know I'm Scotch-Irish with some English and Native American thrown in. No French whatsoever. :)
Is that "Scotch-Irish" or is it "Irish Scotch", which is a totally different thing? :)
I think yall are just a tad bit silly to be getting so worked up over whether or not the modelling of yer cartoon airplanes is on the dot. Its never going to be perfect, its a SIMULATION.
That said, I am glad HTC takes as much pain as they do to make the models as close to the original flight characteristics as possible. If they are off, and someone can prove it, they will make the changes. They have proved more than once they are not above admitting mistakes and changing them if you can provide proof.
And lastly, I recently heard a nasty rumor that Storch has been smuggling Quiche into the US and petitioning steakhouses to sell it as an appetizer.
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Originally posted by Oldman731
And FWIW, I spent a fair amount of time this weekend flying against (and generally getting shot down by) Oleg, who is a pretty good pilot.
Thanks for compliment, though its not exactly true. Sometimes i good, often bad, sometimes realy suck :D
Anyway, every fight agains you (ok, may be almost every :) ) is real challenge for me. You are my favorite opponent.
Originally posted by Oldman731
So. Flying in the CT as the Japanese has always been a challenge (except in 1942). It remains so.
This setup is pretty well balanced i think. Ki61 and F6F match each other very well. I found Ki even a bit better than Hellcat in duel (in group fight i stake on Hellcats though) - it more stable in extreme low speed than F6F with full flaps (at least, i think so).
P.S. This setup is one of few PAC that dont suck.
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Alright Oleg, vacation is over...get back to work!
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Originally posted by StarOfAfrica2
Is that "Scotch-Irish" or is it "Irish Scotch", which is a totally different thing? :)
Actually it is different. Scotch-Irish were not Irish at all, they were Scots that moved to Northern Ireland temporarily on the way to Colonial America. :)
I think yall are just a tad bit silly to be getting so worked up over whether or not the modelling of yer cartoon airplanes is on the dot. Its never going to be perfect, its a SIMULATION.[/b]
Agreed. That is why you will rarely, if ever, hear me complain about the way a plane is modeled in AH, I think HT and Pyro do an excellent job overall. I put that list up there just so folks on either side of the Allied and Axis issue see that I have problems with vehicles on both sides. None are deal killers for me, and in general they are nothing more than minor irritations, but they are there.
I would say that the issue that needs to be fixed most, is the MG151/20. The way AH calculates hit damage, as I understand it, combines the kinetic and chemical power of a shell into a single combined figure, with kinetic much more important than chemical. This shortchanges the LW cannons (or any others) that relied on large HE content. In addition, HE (chemical) power because it is combined with kinetic to get a single figure to simplify things in AH, decreases as the shell travels, which also should not happen. No matter how far/slow an MG151/20 or a 30mm HE shell is going, if it hits you it will still do virtually the same damage as it would point blank because of the large % of HE.
Like I said, this is not a deal killer for me, but it is there.
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I went to the DA last night and upped an A6M. The wing dip is alot worse but I had no trouble out turning spit5's. Some flaps and rudder and she still does what seems to be 90 degree turns. I was flying around at 75% trottle most of the time.