Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Ike 2K# on January 10, 2005, 01:59:11 PM
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This show is giving away our secrets!
btw, it's a good show
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Originally posted by Ike 2K#
This show is giving away our secrets!
btw, it's a good show
What YOUR secrets?
Stealth technology is based on Soviet theoretical research that was (with charmingly stupid disregard to its value) published in a magazine accessible to the science analysts in the USA.
Are you a citizen of the Soviet Union ?
:D
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Originally posted by genozaur
What YOUR secrets?
Stealth technology is based on Soviet theoretical research that was (with charmingly stupid disregard to its value) published in a magazine accessible to the science analysts in the USA.
Are you a citizen of the Soviet Union ?
:D
Yeah that's why the Soviets are well known for their stealth aircraft :rolleyes:
Here's your sign.
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Originally posted by genozaur
What YOUR secrets?
Stealth technology is based on Soviet theoretical research that was (with charmingly stupid disregard to its value) published in a magazine accessible to the science analysts in the USA.
Are you a citizen of the Soviet Union ?
:D
And the Russian mathematician who's ideas were the foundation of radar absorption and scatter technology works for Northrop/Grumman.
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I saw this last night, I really enjoyed it. I especially liked the part about the soldiers new camoflouge armor, and muscle enhancement suite.
It all sounds so gamish, but they predict that these new weapons will be in the US arsenal as soon as 2013. Not that far off for such futuristic technology.
Warfare is going to get alot more complicated. And alot more ugly too sadly.
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Your stealth tecnology?
Germany vs USA 1-0
Germany vs Russia 1-0
It came from Germany boys, like the rest of your "inventions" after -45. Goes for both USA, Russia (and Sweden...)
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Originally posted by patrone
Your stealth tecnology?
Germany vs USA 1-0
Germany vs Russia 1-0
It came from Germany boys, like the rest of your "inventions" after -45. Goes for both USA, Russia (and Sweden...)
Someone's a little bitter. :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by patrone
It came from Germany boys, like the rest of your "inventions" after -45. Goes for both USA, Russia (and Sweden...)
you're right, after 1945 America stopped inventing anything at all.
If not for an American, Germany probably would not have had the rockets they had either.
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Yes, rockets was surely the only thing.
:D
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
And the Russian mathematician who's ideas were the foundation of radar absorption and scatter technology works for Northrop/Grumman.
Even if the guy is an American citizen now, it does not make the Stealth technology purely the American invention. It's the American technology based on the Soviet theoretical research.
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Originally posted by patrone
Your stealth tecnology?
Germany vs USA 1-0
Germany vs Russia 1-0
It came from Germany boys, like the rest of your "inventions" after -45. Goes for both USA, Russia (and Sweden...)
Patrone, don't bother to disclose your location. I know it's that secret Nazi base in Antarktida.
Say hi from me to Adi. :D
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Originally posted by genozaur
Even if the guy is an American citizen now, it does not make the Stealth technology purely the American invention. It's the American technology based on the Soviet theoretical research.
Bernolli's fluid theories are the basis for wing lift.
Therefore the Wright brothers cannot be said to be the inventors of the airplane as they used Bernolli's theories.
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Originally posted by patrone
Your stealth tecnology?
...It came from Germany boys, like the rest of your "inventions" after -45.
(http://students.washington.edu/eomoe/ultimate/baseball/crackpipe.jpg)
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Therefore the Wright brothers cannot be said to be the inventors of the airplane as they used Bernolli's theories.
Not to mention that on october 9, 1890 Clément Adair was the first man to fly (a tiny hop but still the thing flew!) a steam powered , bat-looking machine called "Eole".
the wright bros in 1903 achieved the first SUSTAINED flight .
nitpicking I know, this will turn in a dickie waving contest anyhow...
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What about the first stealth aircraft, a clever Russian design that although it was foreign to the environment, operated in Germany without arousing suspicion, even appearing as though it belonged there.
Below is a top-secret picture of this aircraft codenamed…
The OPTICAL ILYUSHIN!
(http://goaly.homestead.com/files/oi.jpg)
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The original math theory was done by a Russian. However they discarded it, and it was stumbled on by the Skunkworks. Then along came Have Blue (F-117 prototype), and later the B-2 competition.
There's alot of little things y'all people debating it didn't include though. The supercooled exhaust ducting, the radar absorbing paint, the canopy's layer that keeps the pilots head from showing up on radar, etc, etc. A Russian came up with the theory for the shape, but Americans were the first to make it work like the popular conception of it tells us it works.
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Originally posted by Spooky
Not to mention that on october 9, 1890 Clément Adair was the first man to fly (a tiny hop but still the thing flew!) a steam powered , bat-looking machine called "Eole".
the wright bros in 1903 achieved the first SUSTAINED flight .
nitpicking I know, this will turn in a dickie waving contest anyhow...
mouips ....
et Clément Adair avec son pote Can à fondé la société CanAdair ?
C'est Ader rondidju ! pas Adair ! kelle Fôte !
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Wasn't the German Gotha designed as a stealth machine?
And anyway, the Mossie was known to make a weak radar signal.
But that was back then, with the radar back then if you see what I mean.
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Okay, here's the low-down on modern stealth aircraft development (I've got a Masters in it). The Russian you refer to, Ufemstef (forgive the spelling...not near my reference material), didn't invent stealth, or even the "math" of stealth, not directly. What he came up with is a simple mathematical forumula for predicting the electromagnetic scattering signature of a triangular plate. Up to that time, the only shapes we could accurately and efficiently predict the radar signatures of were a sphere, a square plate (though with some limitations), and a cylinder of infinite length. It's very difficult to produce an aircraft that will fly using only these few, simple primatives. So, while we understood the principles of radar scattering, the computers of the day were not up to doing iterative predictive necessary to design a flying combat aircraft. This is all a gross simplification of the extremely complex issues surrounding the problems. So, even though some aircraft had somewhat stealthy features, this was more often a case of getting lucky. The SR-71 Blackbird is one example where the unique aerodynamics required actually helped, rather than hurt, its stealthiness...in most cases, it does just the opposite.
Now, along comes a young engineer at Lockheed's famed Skunkworks. He is purusing foreign recently translated scientific journals when he comes across a fairly inoccuous artical by an equally inoccuous Russian mathematician in an unclassified Soviet journal. In an epiphany that must have sent Stalin rolling over in his grave, he realizes he has the answer to a question that has been plaguing aerospace engineers since radar was discovered. You see, you can build a plane out of triangular facets, and still make it fly. Because of the simple genious of Ufemstef's equations, it is now possible for the computers of the day to design an incredibly stealthy airframe in a virtual environment. Now, instead of taking months for a supercomputer to arrive at a dubious signature prediction -- for every design concept -- it is possible to test hundreds of different plan-forms in the course of weeks, and at multiple radar frequency bands.
Combining the new radar cross-section (RCS) prediction algorithms with American know-how and ingenuity, they quickly develop the Pave Blue prototype. This forms the basic blueprint of the F-117 Nighthawk.
The B-2 is also owes its design to Ufemstef's equation. Both the 117 and the B-2 were predicted using mathematical models made up of triangular facets. The difference is, when the F-117 was designed, computers limited the number of facets that could be reasonabley used in a radar cross-section prediction to around 200. That's why the F-117 is so blocky looking. However, by the time the B-2 was under full-scale develpment, computers and computer programing had pushed the number of triangles/model up into the millions. Makes the triangles small enough, and it begins to approximate a smooth surface. So, the B-2 was made with smooth curves because it could be "predicted" with enough tiny triangles to adequately approximate that smooth surface.
In an asside, I actually met Dr. Ufemstef. He was brough in by the university to lecture us. He was a charming and humble man, with a great sense of humor.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Therefore the Wright brothers cannot be said to be the inventors of the airplane as they used Bernolli's theories.
actually.... Sir George Cayley could be credited with that. Remember, the Wright brothers were not the first to fly, but first powered flight.
http://www.wam.umd.edu/~stwright/WrBr/inventors/Cayley.html
Sir George Cayley was a genius of science whose works in aeronautics pioneered the conquest of flight. From youth, when he devised a three-bladed propeller and placed it on a toy top causing it to fly until his death he devoted himself tothe development of craft to carry man aloft.
A true scientist, he maintained meticulous records of his observations and findings, documentation which was to show the way to later pioneers. Observing that birds soared long distances by simply twisting their arched wing surfaces, he deduced that fixed wing machines would fly if the wings were cambered. in 1804 he flew a model of such a glider, and in 1808 a successful full scale version was flown as a kite. A small boy whose name is not recorded, became the first person in history to fly when in 1849 he made a short flight in a Cayley glider. In 1853 the first man-carrying Cayley glider rose from Brompton Dale with his coachman as its passenger.
Cayley recognized and began the search for solutions to the basic problems of flight: the ratio of lift to wing area; determination of the center of wing pressure; the importance of streamlined shapes; the recognition that a tail assembly was essential to stability and control; the concept of a braced biplane structure for strength; the concept of a wheeled undercarriage; and most importantly the need for a lightweight source of power to broaden the utility of the simple glider. In his half century of aeronautical investigation and experimentation, he gave the world the basic elements of a practical aircraft.
Cayley's genius embraced many disciplines and pioneered the way for later advances such as combustion engines, spoked wheels, the caterpillar tractor, finned missiles, railway safety devices, and medical equipment.
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Originally posted by G0ALY
What about the first stealth aircraft, a clever Russian design that although it was foreign to the environment, operated in Germany without arousing suspicion, even appearing as though it belonged there.
Below is a top-secret picture of this aircraft codenamed…
The OPTICAL ILYUSHIN!
(http://goaly.homestead.com/files/oi.jpg)
Was this OPTICAL ILYUSHIN the same one which was downed by the american laser gun NAYEBALL
from the killer satellite RONALDO THE GREAT?:lol
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Originally posted by Sabre
Okay, here's the low-down on modern stealth aircraft development (I've got a Masters in it). The Russian you refer to, Ufemstef (forgive the spelling...not near my reference material), didn't invent stealth, or even the "math" of stealth, not directly. What he came up with is a simple mathematical forumula for predicting the electromagnetic scattering signature of a triangular plate. Up to that time, the only shapes we could accurately and efficiently predict the radar signatures of were a sphere, a square plate (though with some limitations), and a cylinder of infinite length. It's very difficult to produce an aircraft that will fly using only these few, simple primatives. So, while we understood the principles of radar scattering, the computers of the day were not up to doing iterative predictive necessary to design a flying combat aircraft. This is all a gross simplification of the extremely complex issues surrounding the problems. So, even though some aircraft had somewhat stealthy features, this was more often a case of getting lucky. ....
Now, along comes a young engineer at Lockheed's famed Skunkworks. He is purusing foreign recently translated scientific journals when he comes across a fairly inoccuous artical by an equally inoccuous Russian mathematician in an unclassified Soviet journal. In an epiphany that must have sent Stalin rolling over in his grave, he realizes he has the answer to a question that has been plaguing aerospace engineers since radar was discovered. You see, you can build a plane out of triangular facets, and still make it fly. Because of the simple genious of Ufemstef's equations, it is now possible for the computers of the day to design an incredibly stealthy airframe in a virtual environment. ....
Combining the new radar cross-section (RCS) prediction algorithms with American know-how and ingenuity, they quickly develop the Pave Blue prototype. This forms the basic blueprint of the F-117 Nighthawk.
The B-2 is also owes its design to Ufemstef's equation. Both the 117 and the B-2 were predicted using mathematical models made up of triangular facets. ....
In an asside, I actually met Dr. Ufemstef. He was brough in by the university to lecture us. He was a charming and humble man, with a great sense of humor.
TY Sabre.
The name have to be spelt as Dr. Pyotr Ufimtsev. He is credited to be founder of the Physical Theory of Diffraction. :aok
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anybody remember anything on stealth technology being compromised by cell phones. Something like cell signals are everywhere now and if they are not then there must be an aircraft in that spot....
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
Bernolli's fluid theories are the basis for wing lift.
Therefore the Wright brothers cannot be said to be the inventors of the airplane as they used Bernolli's theories.
I'm not sure Bernoulli can be applied to the thin wing case. Bernoulli requires a velocity difference for the preasure inequality to be created...works great for the Wright Bros. props, though.
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Bernoulli and aerodynamic lift (http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/fluids/airfoil.html)
My intent on posting the parallel of aerodynamic theory to the invention of the device that uses it was to show that while a Russian mathematician developed the theory, Lockheed made it happen.
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My intenet was to goad someone brainy into explaing to me how Bernoulli explains thin wing planes flying
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Read the link I posted and perhaps someday in the far off future if you study hard enough, you may develop a glimmer of understanding.
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When I win the lottery, one of the first things I wanted to do was paint my car in the paint that is on the stealth planes. It actually absorbs radar a little bit.
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you're all wrong.
Greece invented stealth technology. Icarus' wings could absorb all radiation.
which didn't do him any good....
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
When I win the lottery, one of the first things I wanted to do was paint my car in the paint that is on the stealth planes. It actually absorbs radar a little bit.
Nice thought. However, it doesn't work that way, at least not in the way you think. The paint absorbs what they call travelling waves, EM waves that strike at a near-grazing angles which then couple to the metal surface and travel as a standing wave along it. You see, the amount of absorbtion of RAM (radar absorbing material) is proportional to the wavelength of the radar wave. Even at fairly high frequencies (frequency being inversely proportional to wavelength), the paint has to be many wavelengths thick to absorb a majority of the EM radiation's power. So for X-band radar, your car's paint job would have to be several inches thick to make an appreciable difference in the detection range:).
80-90 percent of stealth is achieved through shaping (and hiding of cavities like the engine inlets and exhaust, radomes and antennas, cockpit). The last 10-20 percent of RCS reduction comes by treating details like cracks/gaps, edges, curvature of interfaces).
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woops...double post. sorry.