Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: TexMurphy on January 10, 2005, 07:29:19 PM
-
At this current map(equinox) we have towns very near the fields.
Imho it a huge pita.
First of all it creates alot and I mean alot of vulching. Attackers are so near the field all the time. They dont need to divide up between town and airfield, which means all it takes to defend the town is to vulch the crap out of the field.
Taking a field is really a no brainer. Just hoard the field and you will take it eventually.
I really dont see the point of having the towns that close to the fields. If the point is to make defense easier well then it doesnt at all imho.
Tex.
-
If you want to make defense easier and captures more interesting and strategically provocative...
A) Move towns further away from fields.
B) Give towns themselves a couple of manable acks.
C) Give towns their own independent VH on a seperate 15 minute timer than the one at the field and a spawn to the field and vice-versa for the field's VH to the town.
Voila! Problem solved, but no one listens to me. ;)
My solution would definately make steamrolling more difficult and static defense a viable option even in the face of superior numbers that can, at present, overwhelm the finite area of the current field/town far too easily. If this were implimented we could tone down the maps with 300'ish bases to half that number and it would be roughly equivalent.
Zazen
-
But for those of us who are finally getting zeroed in with that Ostie....bring on the vulchers. :)
-
Originally posted by Anchor
But for those of us who are finally getting zeroed in with that Ostie....bring on the vulchers. :)
Hehe, kicking bellybutton in an Ostwind is very rewarding in it's own way. Sending 5 vulchers to their doom in 30 seconds is quite the rush. Turning back what was a steamrolling vulchfest by the enemy is exhilerating. I also find saving the brave guys upping for base defense very fun and I know they appreciate it as well. ;)
Zazen
-
They are still further away than they were in AH1.
As to the vulching thing. Thats apart of "attacking" a base IMHO.
You, the one being vulched are the deffender.
Am I wrong in saying that you want it to be harder for someone to vulch you at a base under attack?
Simple solution is to up from a near by base.
Other than that I can offer you my solution to the vulchers.
I just start rolling bombers and dumping my eggs on the runway to get light, grab an extra notch or two of flaps and off you go. Doesnt get any "gamier" than that... The way I like it for the vulchers... And there is nothing better than having 3 or 4 guys auger into you while they are going after that precious vulch! Soon they will be out of ammo, or all dead, either to you and the ubber lazer 50's of your B17 or the runway and you'll have your feild back. :)
Dont get me wrong now. Vulching is as much apart of the game as is actual acmery. But when the time comes, and you've had enough of being vulched... Stop rolling. :)
-
Originally posted by streetstang
They are still further away than they were in AH1.
As to the vulching thing. Thats apart of "attacking" a base IMHO.
You, the one being vulched are the deffender.
Am I wrong in saying that you want it to be harder for someone to vulch you at a base under attack?
Simple solution is to up from a near by base.
Other than that I can offer you my solution to the vulchers.
I just start rolling bombers and dumping my eggs on the runway to get light, grab an extra notch or two of flaps and off you go. Doesnt get any "gamier" than that... The way I like it for the vulchers... And there is nothing better than having 3 or 4 guys auger into you while they are going after that precious vulch! Soon they will be out of ammo, or all dead, either to you and the ubber lazer 50's of your B17 or the runway and you'll have your feild back. :)
Dont get me wrong now. Vulching is as much apart of the game as is actual acmery. But when the time comes, and you've had enough of being vulched... Stop rolling. :)
I wouldn't say my changes are strictly for making vulching more dangerous per se, just less important relatively speaking. There will be more to taking a field than simply dropping the single VH and keeping it vulched. You will have more GV's to worry about and kill, as well as more manned ack. This would discourage people from coming light in fighter mode just to vulch, there would be much more emphasis on attackers coming in heavy to kill GV's. The feel would be more realistic in that ground forces would be the last line of defense for a cap'd base. If the ground forces prevailed to some degree the defenders could again up fighters and defend from the air as well. If the attackers prevailed they would inevitably take the base.
As it is now, there is not a whole lot of tactics or strategy for taking fields, nor are there many for field defense. All it really takes is someone to drop the VH and some vulchers, or a high-alt buff to take out the FH's. From that point on the base is at the mercy of the attackers barring a large scale counter-attack from very proximate a field if there is one. While that sounds nice, as easy as bases are to take, especially for a horde on a steamroll, there is usually insufficient time for the defenders to mount a counter-attack before the attackers effect the capture.
Zazen
-
I really like the idea of having a town far away from airfield but having a Vehical Base close to it.
That would really make alot for tactics.
Regarding the Vulching.
I dont see this as something to change vulching. Reason I dont like it when towns are so close is that vulching becomes the ONLY used tactic because the entire hoard is sitting right over both town and field.
If town is moved away and especially if a Vehical Base is near the attacker has to split his hoard up. Since capturing the town is the primary objective, not destroying the airfield, more planes will be at the town then at the airfield (compared to now) and in turn that means less vulching as only tactic.
If the hoard would just vulch then they would never ever be able to get a town, because the Vehical Base would be able to defend it at ease.
Tex
-
Originally posted by Zazen13
Hehe, kicking bellybutton in an Ostwind is very rewarding in it's own way. Sending 5 vulchers to their doom in 30 seconds is quite the rush. Turning back what was a steamrolling vulchfest by the enemy is exhilerating. I also find saving the brave guys upping for base defense very fun and I know they appreciate it as well. ;)
Zazen
And we appreciate it immensely!
-
Maybe we need to put more manned ack guns at the ends of the runways. Lots more. That would make things more interesting.
-
Taking a field is really a no brainer. Just hoard the field and you will take it eventually.
This will never change and most of the time a few good fighters will fend off 2 or 3 to one odds. The past Friday night and last night there have been some good fights like this. The horde comes in the horde gets whiped out.
First of all it creates alot and I mean alot of vulching. Attackers are so near the field all the time. They dont need to divide up between town and airfield, which means all it takes to defend the town is to vulch the crap out of the field.
If you move the cities farther from the base, you will make the fields much easier to capture since they will be harder to defend. I understand that you want to focus the attackers away from the field but very few attack the city and most go strait for the field as it is. Now move the city farther away and you end up fighting at the field while 1 or 2 guys and a goon easily take the city that is too far away to defend.
-
Maybe we need to put more manned ack guns at the ends of the runways. Lots more. That would make things more interesting.
OMG I agree with shubie about something lol. I would like to see more manned ack everywhere. As it is now they are so easy to kill that you have very little chance if any to us the one or two that you get.
I also think all ack should be mannable and if empty are run by AI.
-
You know, I can understand your intentions behind your posts.
But in no way does moving the town further away from a base make vulching more difficult. I couldnt care lesswhere you place the town. But what I am saying is that even if the town was three times further away than it is right now, "CAPing" an air feild is still needed.
Any mission that rolls into a base is going to do three things right off the bat...
1) Drop VH
2) De-ack
3)Drop all other ordinance on town, fighter hangers, bomber hangers, GV's and any other target pertaining to the mission objectives.
These three objectives, which in effect can shut down any or all enemy activity at a base, can be completed regardless of a towns distance from an airfield.
NO MATTER WHAT, when you attack a base with the intention of capture, there will be vulching, there needs to be, and if not vulching than you have to drop the hangers. You can't cut it any other way guys. A town being moved away from the air field has no effect on capture.
-
Originally posted by mars01
OMG I agree with shubie about something lol. I would like to see more manned ack everywhere. As it is now they are so easy to kill that you have very little chance if any to us the one or two that you get.
I also think all ack should be mannable and if empty are run by AI.
I think, but I am not sure, that the variable manned/auto thing would require a code change on the server side. However, we could add ack manned and unmanned ack guns to the fields easily within the current framework.
-
Zazen, can you elaborate? I ask only because you are agreeing to the need of moving a town away from a field.
Basicly I'm asking you... What happens after we move the towns further away? Then what?
How is that going to effect what gets bombed and what doesnt?
How will it make it more difficult to even bomb a target?
Remember, your talking planes now. Planes that are carrying bombs, that are traveling hundreds of miles per hour. Unless you place the town 25 miles or even 10 miles away... This request of moving a town further away from an airfeild is virtually pointless.
-
Originally posted by streetstang
Zazen, can you elaborate? I ask only because you are agreeing to the need of moving a town away from a field.
Basicly I'm asking you... What happens after we move the towns further away? Then what?
How is that going to effect what gets bombed and what doesnt?
How will it make it more difficult to even bomb a target?
Remember, your talking planes now. Planes that are carrying bombs, that are traveling hundreds of miles per hour. Unless you place the town 25 miles or even 10 miles away... This request of moving a town further away from an airfeild is virtually pointless.
Moving towns away from the airfield serves to divide the attackers. This would only be so if the town had a VH. Attackers would be oblidged to clear the town of GV's before they could troop it. As it is now if the field's VH is down and no GV's had the time to make their way to town and the base is vulched the town is helpless and the capture is a foregone conclusion. Creating mutually suporting spawn points between the field's VH and the town's VH would further make things more interesting for both the attackers and defenders. Simply vulching the field or dropping the FH's would be insufficient to ensure its captured. With, presumably, half of the attacking force pre-occcupied with the town, there would be a greater liklihood the defenders would be provided an opportunity to safely up fighters and mount a vigorous defense from the air at some point as well. I think we can all agree that would be more fun and interesting than vulchfests.
Zazen
-
Originally posted by TexMurphy
If town is moved away and especially if a Vehical Base is near the attacker has to split his hoard up. Since capturing the town is the primary objective, not destroying the airfield, more planes will be at the town then at the airfield (compared to now) and in turn that means less vulching as only tactic.
sorry, i dont see what the difference this is, with the current map where the VH of the airfield is so close.
Vulching will happen, no matter what. In fact, I see that separating the town from the field will give rise to whiners complaining that they cannot save their own field, because they cannot up GVs in time. I mean, if we separate the town from the field and still have a VH next to the town, we just drop the VH at the town and still continue to vulch.
-
Originally posted by TexMurphy
I
If town is moved away and especially if a Vehical Base is near the attacker has to split his hoard up. Since capturing the town is the primary objective, not destroying the airfield, more planes will be at the town then at the airfield (compared to now) and in turn that means less vulching as only tactic.
Tex
Man, how far are you talking about? A 300 mph plane travels a mile in about 12 seconds. Besides, us horde managers already divvy up the horde. Some attack the town, some attack the field, some are tasked to go after vehicles. If we expect really stiff resistance, we bring along some light fighters--who immediately start vulching, btw.
-
Originally posted by rshubert
Man, how far are you talking about? A 300 mph plane travels a mile in about 12 seconds. Besides, us horde managers already divvy up the horde. Some attack the town, some attack the field, some are tasked to go after vehicles. If we expect really stiff resistance, we bring along some light fighters--who immediately start vulching, btw.
The distance would have to be considerably greater than icon vis. range to have the desired effect. So, perhaps twice icon vis range or more, 12k yards or so. This would allow the field air defense time to remove CAP and up in fighters without the attackers pre-occupied with the town being directly aware of it.
Zazen
-
Originally posted by Zazen13
The distance would have to be considerably greater than icon vis. range to have the desired effect. So, perhaps twice icon vis range or more, 12k yards or so. This would allow the field air defense time to remove CAP and up in fighters without the attackers pre-occupied with the town being directly aware of it.
Zazen
They can't outrun the vox system, though.:)
-
Originally posted by rshubert
Man, how far are you talking about? A 300 mph plane travels a mile in about 12 seconds. Besides, us horde managers already divvy up the horde. Some attack the town, some attack the field, some are tasked to go after vehicles. If we expect really stiff resistance, we bring along some light fighters--who immediately start vulching, btw.
Yahtzee!
Dam I was wondering how long that was going to take.
Ok then. So we move the VH to the town right? No problem... Bomb the the IN the town then... Still this has absolutly nothing to do with moving the town itself. As both myself and shubie have tried to point out to you fellas, a plane traveling at the speeds they do in game, will take hardly any time at all to travel a few extra miles to target.
It really makes no difference where you put the town, and how far you place it, unless you are going to start asking for the towns to be placed 10-15 miles away from the fields. In which case you are crazy. I dont land grab anymore. I dont make missions anymore either. But I have in the past and I know what a good mission consists of.
Moving a VH will do only one thing. It will force a mission planner to deligate targets in a different manner. It wont make the mission anymore difficult to undertake because the targets have not been changed. Only their distances (that is if they ever do change the towns location or the targets within them). Distances of which are less than minor in relation to a plane.
ok? ok..
So, maybe you want to place a VH within the town while keeping one on the field? No problem. Not if a mission planner is actually planning.
Anyone who makes missions, and makes them often knows as much as I do that the first thing dropped always... (things) is first the VH and then ack. A VH can be taken down with a single heavy pony in a single pass. Two can be taken down simultainiously with two heavy ponies (one on each VH) the in the same manner.
So I'll say again. Moving a towns location in relation to an airfield has no impact on the difficulty of base capture. The field and town, along with the threats they impose on the attackers can still be eliminated with equal efficiency regardless of location.
I might also add that moving a town further away will make it MUCH, much more easier for a fast capture. An attack that moves in, kills the town, and your VH that you want moved into the town and drops troops.
We used to do NOE missions just for the heck of it. To see if we could do it I guess. They got too easy so we stopped. Two 110s in on a town, can have it down within seconds. They move to the field and at a safe distance from the field ack wait for someone to launch. If they do we'd move in on them. While that is going on, the goon is on the way to the town or idealy has already landed and is letting troops out.
My point is, there is no other reason to ask for a town to be further away from a base for any reason other than to facilitate an easier capture.
-
Yup. btw, you suck donkey balls morph :D
-
Originally posted by streetstang
My point is, there is no other reason to ask for a town to be further away from a base for any reason other than to facilitate an easier capture. [/B]
Exactly.
The farther away , the easier the capture.
-
Originally posted by rshubert
They can't outrun the vox system, though.:)
Yup, that would have the ancillary benefit of making good communication more important.
Zazen
-
Originally posted by Jackal1
Exactly.
The farther away , the easier the capture.
Not if there was a mutually supportive Field/Town VH spawn. If field cap was removed long enough to allow the defenders to get airborne they could effectively launch a counter-attack against the forces occupied with suppressing the town. This would be beneficial for the same reason launching an attack from a nearby field would be. Having two positions from which you could mount a viable defense would only make capture more difficult for the attackers. The focus for defense of the town would be ground based, the field aircraft based. The attackers would be compelled to devote forces to both targets simultaneously diluting, what would otherwise be an overwhelming force directed primarly toward field suppression as it stands currently...
Zazen
-
Then it would be done just like it is now. Bring in a cuple of dar bars , pork the VHs(no matter where there at}, overwhelm the field to the point of boredom, take town.
-
Originally posted by streetstang
Any mission that rolls into a base is going to do three things right off the bat...
1) Drop VH
2) De-ack
...
Morph, you're smoking something, right? :D