Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: thomasbernie on January 11, 2005, 12:22:41 PM
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I'm trying to switch to Aces Hi so I can take advantage of the new Track IR vector expansion mode. I can't seem to get the settings right. The aircraft nose jerks around in an unrealistic fashion. Takeoffs are difficult due to irrational swerving. I read that this sim has a great FM. I don't see anything resembling a great FM, so I must have some major configuration error.
Any Ideas? P.S. Been flying IL2 online for 3 years, and 10K plul Rl hours. Thanks in advance.
Tom
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The aircraft nose jerks around in an unrealistic fashion.
Probably excessive / too fast control input. Usually adjusting your stick scaling can help. Read about it here (http://www.netaces.org/ahsetup/joystick.html#title).
Takeoffs are difficult due to irrational swerving.
You must pull your stick back 1/4 to 1/2 in order to lock your tail wheel. If you don't, your tailwheel is free and you will swerve at low speeds.
Check out netaces, linked in my signature. Good Luck!
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Thanks, but I got the stick & rudders calibrated. The nose of the ac jumps around in an unrealistic way, kind of jittery and unstable.
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Thanks hammer, that explains the takeoff swerving. Guess I need to study up.
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He's not saying you don't have your stick calibrated in windows, as well as AH2. What hes saying is that there are slider scales to adjust sensitivity of each axis (roll, pitch, rudder) on your plane. If these are too high, turn them down. Imagine yanking on your stearing wheel really hard on a wet surface...I dont think the car would be too resposive. Same with a plane. Turn the scaling down so you dont "work" your plane too hard. You beat on a plane, and it's gonna beat on you back.
I havent been playing long and STILL have yet to find a scaling setting that doesnt resolve my "nose bounce" problem either, but this is where you resolve the issue..if your luckier than me.
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Thanks Ohio43, I'll tone down my control profiles some. Guess the nose "bouncing" is normal with this FM. I'll practice some and see if I can get used to it.
Regards, Tom
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Well, actually, nose bounce isn't "normal" being that you should accept the fact that it can't be resolved. It IS normal to the extent that the planes are modeled for realism. Basic concept being that "for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction" Beat on a plane in a left side skid will in effect make it swing back to the right violently (Nose bounce). Easy inputs gets easy "reactions" to that input. Everyone has their own style of man-handling a stick, so you really can't get advise on what to set them at. I am, for one, a person the really works a stick hard (ok, this isn't sounding kosher) and because of this fact, I am really having a very difficult time elliminating the nose bounce. Particularly in the "fine tuning" my aim just before shooting. Nose bounce can also occur if your stick's center position is wearing out..you can tell this because you nose will skid side to side, or up and down even when you are not touching the controls. If you stick isn't TOO worn out, you can eliminate this by raising the "dead band" for the particular axis in the AH2 joystick setup as well.
I did, however, find last night that the A6M (zeke) is very forgiving and seems to like rough handling. It seems to take to man-handling very well. Unfortuantely, from what I've been reading, this plane has limited options against a lot of later war birds.
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Originally posted by Ohio43
I havent been playing long and STILL have yet to find a scaling setting that doesnt resolve my "nose bounce" problem either, but this is where you resolve the issue..if your luckier than me.
Ohio,
I had the same problem when i returned from my year-long absence (courtesy of Uncle Sam). I was using the settings shown on my site.
I messed around with various settings, all the time having no luck. One day, more out of frustration than anything, I set them all to the top. Voila! Problem solved. I can't say whether it was the change in settings or me getting used to flying the virtual skies again, but that did it for me.
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All to the top?? doesnt that mean that the slightest input will put out the maximum response immediately?
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Anything is worth a try if your struggling.
Personally what stopped nose bounce for me was setting the dead zone etc in AH setup to ZERO.
I like to start getting a response as soon as i move the joystick the slightest amount.
However when fighting i also try to keep a small negative trim, meaning i have to have small elevator up input to be level.
I find this helps me a lot keeping the pipper on target instead of bouncing around and having to keep correcting up or down.
Ohio the answer is no.
Setting the sliders all to the top will give you a straight line graph response.
For example a 5 mm movement on your stick will give you a 5 degree response on the controls linearly from the centre position outwards.
By using the standard settings again as an example a 5mm stick movement from centre may only give you a 1 degree control, response. The next 5mm stick movement may give you a 2 degree control response all the way out to where the last 5mm stick movement may give you a 10 degree control response.
Basically the standard settings and anything below max for any slider gives you a curved graph style control response.
Thomas also check in AH setup that you have the easy options turned off. Stall limiter etc, although if your having trouble on takeoff roll its likely you have already turned them off.
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Cav, you make a good point about the negative aspect to using dead band at all. I was of the same opinion and had set my dead band to zero. I really dont need dead band on at all. My stick is very stiff so I didnt need it. I was finding that with dead band on I would find the, say, roll, would kick in when I didn't expect it to, and thus had to kick the roll the oposite way to compensate for the shot..causing nose bounce one again. Even at zero I have a problem but I know its not the stick's fault.
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Tom, you can try these to give you an idea and go from there.
http://home.comcast.net/~sshoe/wsb/media/587675/site1006.GIF
http://home.comcast.net/~sshoe/wsb/media/587675/site1007.GIF
http://home.comcast.net/~sshoe/wsb/media/587675/site1005.GIF
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Thanks for all the input guys. I just finished testing some settings. Hammers suggestion of no scaling works best for me sensitive, but stable -- something I can work with. Now practice time. :D
Thanks again, Tom
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If ya need any 1 on 1 help Tom just say the word.
I have flown Il2/FB/AEP/PF
I think you will really like AH, just give it time. I wish you the best.
c yas up..... Dave
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Thanks Dave, I'll do that. I've got a little learning curve I'm working on now.
Tom
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Nose bounce may also occur if you have Force Feedback checked and are not using a force feedback stick.
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Thanks Scrap. I use CH & FF is not checked.
Thanks, tom
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I tried Hammer's suggestion about turning all the sliders up. Wow, that did make a huge difference. I did this for both roll, pitch, and rudder. Upped a plane and intentionally did not use rudder. There was no bounce at all. Then when using rudder I had bounce. I then put all the rudder sliders at 50% and that really helped a lot.
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Hammer's suggestion works for me too. I seem to really have to back off on the rudder and scale it from zero to about half.
Thanks, Tom
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My stick scale (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=16) designed to eliminate the nose bounce inherent in some planes in AH. It is also geared with turn fighting in mind.
ack-ack
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Thanks ack-ack. I copied ur config file to my settings folder. It doesn't feel as tight as running with aileron & elevators full up, but I'll try to get used to it. Also, thanks for the other good info. Now, if I can get the host to give me an account, I'll see what H to H is all about.
Thanks, tom
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Make sure you have the stall limiter turned off.
ack-ack
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OK tnx
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Welcome to AH - I also play IL2 and came over to AH from Fighter Ace a couple of years ago.
I think after about two or three weeks you'll get used to the slightly different flight model and will feel pretty comfortable switching between the two.
Pluses are:
Much, much better gameplay
In game vox that actually works
Decent eye candy - not great but ok
gunnery very similar
huge arena
better cockpit views - ie you can change yr pov
IR tracker 3 works in here
no invisible cockpits
Minuses
IL2 eye candy is far better
180 degree 6 view is irritating in AH - you can set it though to be more realistic
no more 6 people in a room and everyone start to warp
I still play Il2 - it's just that AH is better for mmog and once you got used to hunting people it's hard to ever go back.
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Originally posted by Ack-Ack
My stick scale (http://479th.jasminemarie.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Downloads&file=index&req=getit&lid=16) designed to eliminate the nose bounce inherent in some planes in AH. It is also geared with turn fighting in mind.
ack-ack
Ack-ack where would unzip the stick scale to?
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Originally posted by Schaden
Ack-ack where would unzip the stick scale to?
Unzip it into your AH/settings folder. Make sure that you back up your original stick.cfg file by renaming it stick.bak in case you want to go back to your original settings.
ack-ack
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Ack-Ack,
Is that stick scale designed for a particular joystick? What exactly does it configure?
Also, I enjoyed the articles in file about gunnery and e-management. Maybe there should be and addititonal folder in the Help and Training section where articles like those could be posted and kept. For people like me who are still in the very bottom part of their "learning curve", those kind of articles are very valuable.
Thanks again!
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Not made for any one joystick. I have the settings like that so I can ride the edge of the envelope better.
ack-ack
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essentially here is what these settings do:
Deadband: Dead band settings will affect how much input is required before the control surface moves. a high setting will make sloppy sticks less jerky. if you find that keeping a steady nose for gunnery and ACM is a problem, play with deadband.
Damper: again, with sloppy sticks, a higher damper setting will limit the 'over steer' problems in pitch and rudder. If you find that in high speed turns and climbs you're unstable, play with the damper.
Ack-ack's stick files are very usefull. If you find they dont work for cheaper sticks with low resistance, try playing with these settings:
Roll: deadband set to 1/4, damper just under half.
Pitch: DB a little over half, damper, just under half.
Rudder: DB 60% up, Damper just under half.
I have a POS stick (cheapo saitek) and have found it to be almost useless with out some settings changes. 'nose bounce' is a big problem, 'rudder snap stalls' are also trouble, especially when pulling hard back with a twisty stick as its very hard not to input s a little rudder. roll is less effected but it still needs tuning to get the most out of AH.
Oh! and as mentined already, STALL LIMITER must be OFF!
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hmmmm, lotsa good stuff here.
You say you have 10k rl stick time. If so why would you want to take out all the sensitivity of your stick by moving all the sliders to the top? Is that how a real plane fly's?
Just to rehash a couple of things;
Deadband kills pot (potentiometer) movement along the axis you chose. The more deadband you input the more of the center pot movement you take out. It was set up originally to provide some stick usefulness even if you have a stick where the pots are either dirty or old and spiking. Its easy to check if your pots are spiking. From within the game hit esc/setup/controls/joystick/settings. Look at the blue boxes on the right in the new window. If you see the + spike when you move your stick then you can do 3 things;
Recalibrate your stick and see if it fixes it.
Slide the dead band slider bar up a bit and see if it fixes it.
Buy a new pot and stick it in the stick.
If your stick doesn't spike on any axis leave the deadband alone.
Damping delays the onset of control surface movement. When you yank on the stick for any reason you may get a message "don't move your stick so rapidly" and your controls will lock for a few seconds. This is the game saying, don't yank on the stick so fast. For those of us who have a tendency to yank the stick when the bullets are striking our plane (reflex action) damping lets us yank a lil before it begins to move the controls and by the time (milliseconds) the control surfaces move you have calmed down a hair and eased pressure off the stick.
You may want to adjust the damping up just a hair (1/16 inch up?) and see its effect.
Back to stick movement vs control surface movement. How many planes have you ever flown where you moved the stick 1/2 inch and the control surfaces went hard over to the stops? In fact, some modern jets don't even like full control throws to the stops and back or you may have a catastophic failure of a major component.
That said you may want to think about setting the stick throws to the same control surface throws. It will give you a more realistic feel of flying. Where it plays a big role is in pitch and yaw. Both of these axis' require gentle (softer?) movement around its center to allow easier aiming and more control when flying along the ragged egde of the flight envelope.
Hope this helps. If you want more info or help you can find me in the Training Arena (TA) or just email me.
Ren
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Tried reducing Deadband to zero. Stopped all nose bounce!! That is with a CH products Fighterstick USB with CH Rudder Pedals. Not a low end setup, but not excessive (imo) either.
Good stuff guys! I have been trying to solve this problem for awhile. Using smooth stick inputs makes a big difference but no nose bounce is even better!
Typically, I think settings should have some value, or they would have an on/off toggle. So, normally I set all sliders to some value. That is bad in my case for Deadband!
Regards,
Malta
p.s. No, I will not admit how many years I have been flying with nose bounce.
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Are you still playing AH Tom?
If you are what are your thoughts on AH vs IL2?
Thx .... Dave