Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: NUKE on January 11, 2005, 04:20:01 PM

Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: NUKE on January 11, 2005, 04:20:01 PM
Afghanistan, Iraq and "Palestine" are all occupied. Why is it that they are the only 3 Arab nations that have or will have free elections?
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 11, 2005, 05:00:25 PM
they werent free.

so far its cost billions.

can you say "arbooooosto?"
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: NUKE on January 11, 2005, 05:01:43 PM
as usual, you do not have a clue what you are talking about.
Title: Re: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Sandman on January 11, 2005, 05:02:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Afghanistan, Iraq and "Palestine" are all occupied. Why is it that they are the only 3 Arab nations that have or will have free elections?


(http://www.isp.msu.edu/CERS/resources/countries/maps/turkey.gif)

Okay... not Arabic... but Islamic... ;)
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: thrila on January 11, 2005, 05:03:56 PM
Isn't Jordan democratic?
Title: Re: Re: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Pei on January 11, 2005, 05:04:20 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
(http://www.isp.msu.edu/CERS/resources/countries/maps/turkey.gif)


Turks are not Arabs.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: GRUNHERZ on January 11, 2005, 05:04:45 PM
Neither Turkey or Afghanistan are Arab...
Title: Re: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: 2bighorn on January 11, 2005, 05:05:41 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Afghanistan, Iraq and "Palestine" are all occupied. Why is it that they are the only 3 Arab nations that have or will have free elections?
Afghans are not Arabs
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: NUKE on January 11, 2005, 05:06:02 PM
I didn't think Turkey was Arab.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 11, 2005, 05:06:30 PM
Quote
Originally posted by thrila
Isn't Jordan democratic?


overnment        Egypt     
Top of Page
Country name:
   Definition Field Listing
conventional long form: Arab Republic of Egypt
conventional short form: Egypt
local long form: Jumhuriyat Misr al-Arabiyah
local short form: Misr
former: United Arab Republic (with Syria)
Government type:
   Definition Field Listing
republic
Capital:
   Definition Field Listing
Cairo
Administrative divisions:
   Definition Field Listing
26 governorates (muhafazat, singular - muhafazah); Ad Daqahliyah, Al Bahr al Ahmar, Al Buhayrah, Al Fayyum, Al Gharbiyah, Al Iskandariyah, Al Isma'iliyah, Al Jizah, Al Minufiyah, Al Minya, Al Qahirah, Al Qalyubiyah, Al Wadi al Jadid, Ash Sharqiyah, As Suways, Aswan, Asyut, Bani Suwayf, Bur Sa'id, Dumyat, Janub Sina', Kafr ash Shaykh, Matruh, Qina, Shamal Sina', Suhaj
Independence:
   Definition Field Listing
28 February 1922 (from UK)
National holiday:
   Definition Field Listing
Revolution Day, 23 July (1952)
Constitution:
   Definition Field Listing
11 September 1971
Legal system:
   Definition Field Listing
based on English common law, Islamic law, and Napoleonic codes; judicial review by Supreme Court and Council of State (oversees validity of administrative decisions); accepts compulsory ICJ jurisdiction, with reservations
Suffrage:
   Definition Field Listing
18 years of age; universal and compulsory
Executive branch:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of state: President Mohammed Hosni MUBARAK (since 14 October 1981)
head of government: Prime Minister Ahmed NAZIF (since 9 July 2004)
cabinet: Cabinet appointed by the president
elections: president nominated by the People's Assembly for a six-year term, the nomination must then be validated by a national, popular referendum; national referendum last held 26 September 1999 (next to be held NA October 2005); prime minister appointed by the president
election results: national referendum validated President MUBARAK's nomination by the People's Assembly to a fourth term
Legislative branch:
   Definition Field Listing
bicameral system consists of the People's Assembly or Majlis al-Sha'b (454 seats; 444 elected by popular vote, 10 appointed by the president; members serve five-year terms) and the Advisory Council or Majlis al-Shura - which functions only in a consultative role (264 seats; 176 elected by popular vote, 88 appointed by the president; members serve six-year terms)
elections: People's Assembly - three-phase voting - last held 19 October, 29 October, 8 November 2000 (next to be held NA November 2005); Advisory Council - last held May-June 2001 (next to be held NA 2007)
election results: People's Assembly - percent of vote by party - NDP 88%, independents 8%, opposition 4%; seats by party - NDP 398, NWP 7, Tagammu 6, Nasserists 2, LSP 1, independents 38, undecided 2; Advisory Council - percent of vote by party - NDP 99%, independents 1%; seats by party - NA
Judicial branch:
   Definition Field Listing
Supreme Constitutional Court
Political parties and leaders:
   Definition Field Listing
Liberal Party or LSP [leader NA]; Nasserist Arab Democratic Party or Nasserists [Dia' al-din DAWUD]; National Democratic Party or NDP [President Mohammed Hosni MUBARAK] - governing party; National Progressive Unionist Grouping or Tagammu [RIfaat EL-SAID]; New Wafd Party or NWP [No'man GOMA]; Socialist Liberal Party or Al-Ahrar [Hilmi SALIM]
note: formation of political parties must be approved by the government
Political pressure groups and leaders:
   Definition Field Listing
despite a constitutional ban against religious-based parties, the technically illegal Muslim Brotherhood constitutes MUBARAK's potentially most significant political opposition; MUBARAK tolerated limited political activity by the Brotherhood for his first two terms, but moved more aggressively since then to block its influence; civic society groups are sanctioned, but constrained in practical terms; trade unions and professional associations are officially sanctioned
International organization participation:
   Definition Field Listing
ABEDA, ACC, ACCT, AfDB, AFESD, AMF, AU, BSEC (observer), CAEU, EBRD, FAO, G-15, G-24, G-77, IAEA, IBRD, ICAO, ICC, ICCt (signatory), ICRM, IDA, IDB, IFAD, IFC, IFRCS, IHO, ILO, IMF, IMO, Interpol, IOC, IOM, ISO, ITU, LAS, MINURSO, MONUC, NAM, OAPEC, OAS (observer), OIC, OSCE (partner), PCA, UN, UNAMSIL, UNCTAD, UNESCO, UNIDO, UNITAR, UNMIK, UNOMIG, UNRWA, UPU, WCO, WFTU, WHO, WIPO, WMO, WToO, WTrO
Diplomatic representation in the US:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of mission: Ambassador M. Nabil FAHMY
chancery: 3521 International Court NW, Washington, DC 20008
telephone: [1] (202) 895-5400
FAX: [1] (202) 244-4319
consulate(s) general: Chicago, Houston, New York, and San Francisco
Diplomatic representation from the US:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of mission: Ambassador C. David WELCH
embassy: 8 Kamal El Din Salah St., Garden City, Cairo
mailing address: Unit 64900, Box 15, APO AE 09839-4900
telephone: [20] (2) 797-3300
FAX: [20] (2) 797-3200
Flag description:
   Definition Field Listing
three equal horizontal bands of red (top), white, and black; the national emblem (a gold Eagle of Saladin facing the hoist side with a shield superimposed on its chest above a scroll bearing the name of the country in Arabic) centered in the white band; design is based on the Arab Liberation flag and similar to the flag of Syria, which has two green stars, Iraq, which has three green stars (plus an Arabic inscription) in a horizontal line centered in the white band, and Yemen, which has a plain white band


ya.  im pretty dumb alright.
Title: Re: Re: Re: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Sandman on January 11, 2005, 05:06:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Pei
Turks are not Arabs.


The CIA factbook lists Arabic as one of the predominant lanquages in Turkey... I'm guessing it must be the Chinese that speak it. ;)
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 11, 2005, 05:08:33 PM
Government        Lebanon     
Top of Page
Country name:
   Definition Field Listing
conventional long form: Lebanese Republic
conventional short form: Lebanon
local long form: Al Jumhuriyah al Lubnaniyah
local short form: Lubnan
Government type:
   Definition Field Listing
republic
Capital:
   Definition Field Listing
Beirut
Administrative divisions:
   Definition Field Listing
6 governorates (mohafazat, singular - mohafazah); Beyrouth, Beqaa, Liban-Nord, Liban-Sud, Mont-Liban, Nabatiye
Independence:
   Definition Field Listing
22 November 1943 (from League of Nations mandate under French administration)
National holiday:
   Definition Field Listing
Independence Day, 22 November (1943)
Constitution:
   Definition Field Listing
23 May 1926, amended a number of times, most recently Charter of Lebanese National Reconciliation (Ta'if Accord) of October 1989
Legal system:
   Definition Field Listing
mixture of Ottoman law, canon law, Napoleonic code, and civil law; no judicial review of legislative acts; has not accepted compulsory ICJ jurisdiction
Suffrage:
   Definition Field Listing
21 years of age; compulsory for all males; authorized for women at age 21 with elementary education
Executive branch:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of state: President Emile LAHUD (since 24 November 1998)
head of government: Prime Minister Omar KARAMI (since 21 October 2004); Deputy Prime Minister Issam FARES (since 23 October 2000)
cabinet: Cabinet chosen by the prime minister in consultation with the president and members of the National Assembly
elections: president elected by the National Assembly for a six-year term; election last held 15 October 1998 (next scheduled for 2004); note - on 3 September 2004 Parliament voted 96 to 29 to extend Emile LAHUD's six-year term by three years; prime minister and deputy prime minister appointed by the president in consultation with the National Assembly; by custom, the president is a Maronite Christian, the prime minister is a Sunni Muslim, and the speaker of the legislature is a Shi'a Muslim
election results: Emile LAHUD elected president; National Assembly vote - 118 votes in favor, 0 against, 10 abstentions
Legislative branch:
   Definition Field Listing
unicameral National Assembly or Majlis Alnuwab (Arabic) or Assemblee Nationale (French) (128 seats; members elected by popular vote on the basis of sectarian proportional representation to serve four-year terms)
elections: last held 27 August and 3 September 2000 (next to be held NA 2004)
election results: percent of vote by party - Muslim 57% (of which Sunni 25%, Sh'ite 25%, Druze 6%, Alawite less than 1%), Christian 43% (of which Maronite 23%); seats by party - Muslim 64 (of which Sunni 27, Sh'ite 27, Druze 8, Alawite 2), Christian 64 (of which Maronite 34)
Judicial branch:
   Definition Field Listing
four Courts of Cassation (three courts for civil and commercial cases and one court for criminal cases); Constitutional Council (called for in Ta'if Accord - rules on constitutionality of laws); Supreme Council (hears charges against the president and prime minister as needed)
Political parties and leaders:
   Definition Field Listing
political party activity is organized along largely sectarian lines; numerous political groupings exist, consisting of individual political figures and followers motivated by religious, clan, and economic considerations
Political pressure groups and leaders:
   Definition Field Listing
NA
International organization participation:
   Definition Field Listing
ABEDA, ACCT, AFESD, AMF, FAO, G-24, G-77, IAEA, IBRD, ICAO, ICC, ICFTU, ICRM, IDA, IDB, IFAD, IFC, IFRCS, ILO, IMF, IMO, Interpol, IOC, ISO (correspondent), ITU, LAS, NAM, OAS (observer), OIC, PCA, UN, UNCTAD, UNESCO, UNHCR, UNIDO, UNRWA, UPU, WCO, WFTU, WHO, WIPO, WMO, WToO, WTrO (observer)
Diplomatic representation in the US:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of mission: Ambassador Dr. Farid ABBOUD
chancery: 2560 28th Street NW, Washington, DC 20008
telephone: [1] (202) 939-6300
FAX: [1] (202) 939-6324
consulate(s) general: Detroit, New York, and Los Angeles
Diplomatic representation from the US:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of mission: Ambassador Jeffrey D. FELDMAN
embassy: Awkar, Lebanon
mailing address: P. O. Box 70-840, Antelias, Lebanon; PSC 815, Box 2, FPO AE 09836-0002
telephone: [961] (4) 542600, 543600
FAX: [961] (4) 544136
Flag description:
   Definition Field Listing
three horizontal bands of red (top), white (double width), and red with a green cedar tree centered in the white band


im getting dumber by the moment.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: NUKE on January 11, 2005, 05:09:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Neither Turkey or Afghanistan are Arab...


Thanks.

So that makes only "Palestine" and Iraq, both occupied, as the only Arab "nations" on earth that will hold free elections.

What wrong with the Arab nations? They seem to be afraid of freedom
Title: Re: Re: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: wombatt on January 11, 2005, 05:09:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Sandman
(http://www.isp.msu.edu/CERS/resources/countries/maps/turkey.gif)

Okay... not Arabic... but Islamic... ;)



Not only that but a very important part of our thanksgiving.;)
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: GRUNHERZ on January 11, 2005, 05:09:55 PM
Turks are not Arabs, Sandman.

BTW the world's most populous Muslim  nation, and a muslim majoprity nation no less, is a democracy with universal voting rights for adult men and women...
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: 2bighorn on January 11, 2005, 05:11:14 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
So that makes only "Palestine" and Iraq, both occupied, as the only Arab "nations" on earth that will hold free elections.
Something is wrong with our educational system...
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 11, 2005, 05:12:11 PM
Population:
   Definition Field Listing Rank Order
20,024,867 (July 2004 est.)
Age structure:
   Definition Field Listing
0-14 years: 46.6% (male 4,751,776; female 4,582,277)
15-64 years: 50.6% (male 5,166,437; female 4,973,543)
65 years and over: 2.8% (male 273,199; female 277,635) (2004 est.)
Median age:
   Definition Field Listing
total: 16.5 years
male: 16.5 years
female: 16.5 years (2004 est.)
Population growth rate:
   Definition Field Listing
3.44% (2004 est.)
Birth rate:
   Definition Field Listing Rank Order
43.16 births/1,000 population (2004 est.)
Death rate:
   Definition Field Listing Rank Order
8.78 deaths/1,000 population (2004 est.)
Net migration rate:
   Definition Field Listing
0 migrant(s)/1,000 population (2004 est.)
Sex ratio:
   Definition Field Listing
at birth: 1.05 male(s)/female
under 15 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
15-64 years: 1.04 male(s)/female
65 years and over: 0.98 male(s)/female
total population: 1.04 male(s)/female (2004 est.)
Infant mortality rate:
   Definition Field Listing Rank Order
total: 63.26 deaths/1,000 live births
male: 68.12 deaths/1,000 live births
female: 58.15 deaths/1,000 live births (2004 est.)
Life expectancy at birth:
   Definition Field Listing Rank Order
total population: 61.36 years
male: 59.53 years
female: 63.29 years (2004 est.)
Total fertility rate:
   Definition Field Listing Rank Order
6.75 children born/woman (2004 est.)
HIV/AIDS - adult prevalence rate:
   Definition Field Listing Rank Order
0.1% (2001 est.)
HIV/AIDS - people living with HIV/AIDS:
   Definition Field Listing Rank Order
9,900 (2001 est.)
HIV/AIDS - deaths:
   Definition Field Listing Rank Order
NA
Nationality:
   Definition Field Listing
noun: Yemeni(s)
adjective: Yemeni
Ethnic groups:
   Definition Field Listing
predominantly Arab; but also Afro-Arab, South Asians, Europeans
Religions:
   Definition Field Listing
Muslim including Shaf'i (Sunni) and Zaydi (Shi'a), small numbers of Jewish, Christian, and Hindu
Languages:
   Definition Field Listing
Arabic
Literacy:
   Definition Field Listing
definition: age 15 and over can read and write
total population: 50.2%
male: 70.5%
female: 30% (2003 est.)
      Government       Yemen    
Top of Page
Country name:
   Definition Field Listing
conventional long form: Republic of Yemen
conventional short form: Yemen
local long form: Al Jumhuriyah al Yamaniyah
local short form: Al Yaman
Government type:
   Definition Field Listing
republic
Capital:
   Definition Field Listing
Sanaa
Administrative divisions:
   Definition Field Listing
19 governorates (muhafazat, singular - muhafazah); Abyan, 'Adan, Ad Dali', Al Bayda', Al Hudaydah, Al Jawf, Al Mahrah, Al Mahwit, 'Amran, Dhamar, Hadramawt, Hajjah, Ibb, Lahij, Ma'rib, Sa'dah, San'a', Shabwah, Ta'izz
note: for electoral and administrative purposes, the capital city of Sanaa is treated as an additional governorate
Independence:
   Definition Field Listing
22 May 1990, Republic of Yemen was established with the merger of the Yemen Arab Republic [Yemen (Sanaa) or North Yemen] and the Marxist-dominated People's Democratic Republic of Yemen [Yemen (Aden) or South Yemen]; previously North Yemen had become independent on NA November 1918 (from the Ottoman Empire) and South Yemen had become independent on 30 November 1967 (from the UK)
National holiday:
   Definition Field Listing
Unification Day, 22 May (1990)
Constitution:
   Definition Field Listing
16 May 1991; amended 29 September 1994 and February 2001
Legal system:
   Definition Field Listing
based on Islamic law, Turkish law, English common law, and local tribal customary law; has not accepted compulsory ICJ jurisdiction
Suffrage:
   Definition Field Listing
18 years of age; universal
Executive branch:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of state: President Ali Abdallah SALIH (since 22 May 1990, the former president of North Yemen, assumed office upon the merger of North and South Yemen); Vice President Maj. Gen. Abd al-Rab Mansur al-HADI (since 3 October 1994)
head of government: Prime Minister Abd al-Qadir BA JAMAL (since 4 April 2001)
cabinet: Council of Ministers appointed by the president on the advice of the prime minister
elections: president elected by direct, popular vote for a seven-year term (recently extended from a five-year term by constitutional amendment); election last held 23 September 1999 (next to be held NA 2006); vice president appointed by the president; prime minister and deputy prime ministers appointed by the president
election results: Ali Abdallah SALIH elected president; percent of vote - Ali Abdallah SALIH 96.3%, Najib Qahtan AL-SHAABI 3.7%
Legislative branch:
   Definition Field Listing
a new constitutional amendment ratified on 20 February 2001 created a bicameral legislature consisting of a Shura Council (111 seats; members appointed by the president) and a House of Representatives (301 seats; members elected by popular vote to serve six-year terms)
elections: last held 27 April 2003 (next to be held NA April 2009)
election results: percent of vote by party - NA; seats by party - GPC 228, Islah 47, YSP 7, Nasserite Unionist Party 3, National Arab Socialist Ba'th Party 2, independents 14
Judicial branch:
   Definition Field Listing
Supreme Court
Political parties and leaders:
   Definition Field Listing
there are more than 12 political parties active in Yemen, some of the more prominent are: General People's Congress or GPC [President Ali Abdallah SALIH]; Islamic Reform Grouping or Islah [Shaykh Abdallah bin Husayn al-AHMAR]; National Arab Socialist Ba'th Party [Dr. Qassim SALAAM]; Nasserite Unionist Party [Abdel Malik al-MAKHLAFI]; Yemeni Socialist Party or YSP [Ali Salih MUQBIL]
note: President SALIH's General People's Congress or GPC won a landslide victory in the April 1997 legislative election and no longer governs in coalition with Shaykh Abdallah bin Husayn al-AHMAR's Islamic Reform Grouping or Islah - the two parties had been in coalition since the end of the civil war in 1994; the YSP, a loyal opposition party, represents the remnants of the former South Yemeni leadership; leaders of the 1994 secessionist movement have been pardoned by President SALIH and some are now returning to Yemen from exile
Political pressure groups and leaders:
   Definition Field Listing
NA
International organization participation:
   Definition Field Listing
ACC, AFESD, AMF, CAEU, FAO, G-77, IAEA, IBRD, ICAO, ICCt (signatory), ICFTU, ICRM, IDA, IDB, IFAD, IFC, IFRCS, ILO, IMF, IMO, Interpol, IOC, IOM, ISO (correspondent), ITU, LAS, NAM, OAS (observer), OIC, OPCW, UN, UNCTAD, UNESCO, UNHCR, UNIDO, UPU, WCO, WFTU, WHO, WIPO, WMO, WToO, WTrO (observer)
Diplomatic representation in the US:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of mission: Ambassador Abd al-Wahhab Abdallah al-HAJRI
chancery: Suite 705, 2600 Virginia Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20037
telephone: [1] (202) 965-4760
FAX: [1] (202) 337-2017
Diplomatic representation from the US:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of mission: Ambassador Thomas C. KRAJESKI
embassy: Saawan Street, Sanaa
mailing address: P. O. Box 22347, Sanaa
telephone: [967] (1) 303-151 through 159
FAX: [967] (1) 303-160/161/162/164/165
Flag description:
   Definition Field Listing
three equal horizontal bands of red (top), white, and black; similar to the flag of Syria, which has two green stars and of Iraq which has three green stars (plus an Arabic inscription) in a horizontal line centered in the white band; also similar to the flag of Egypt, which has a heraldic eagle centered in the white band


bright boy we got here.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Sandman on January 11, 2005, 05:12:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
Turks are not Arabs, Sandman.


Yeah, but they all look alike.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: NUKE on January 11, 2005, 05:13:33 PM
JBA, you moron.....why not post your own thoughts?
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 11, 2005, 05:16:07 PM
confusious say.

one is wise to sniff ahead  before gooschtepping in a poop field.





:D
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: -tronski- on January 11, 2005, 05:18:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
Thanks.

So that makes only "Palestine" and Iraq, both occupied, as the only Arab "nations" on earth that will hold free elections.

What wrong with the Arab nations? They seem to be afraid of freedom


I'm not sure how "free" an election is when you need permission by an occupier to get to a polling both.

 Tronsky
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Vulcan on January 11, 2005, 05:18:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
JBA, you moron.....why not post your own thoughts?


Errr he's posting facts which clearly prove you wrong. He doesn't have to post thoughts. Its a clear cut case.

The only thoughts he have would probably reference your initial post in relation to stupidty, ignorance, and opening your mouth before engaging your brain.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: thrila on January 11, 2005, 05:19:30 PM
Errrmmm....jordan guys?
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: NUKE on January 11, 2005, 05:21:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Vulcan
Errr he's posting facts which clearly prove you wrong. He doesn't have to post thoughts. Its a clear cut case.

The only thoughts he have would probably reference your initial post in relation to stupidty, ignorance, and opening your mouth before engaging your brain.


can you list some of the facts for me that have something to do with free elections in Arab states?
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 11, 2005, 05:24:13 PM
i cant do it.  

(lowering gun)

its so cute.

dad, can we take it home?
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Flyboy on January 11, 2005, 05:24:22 PM
jordan is not a democracy, its a monarch

Egypt is a so called democracy, only one party, so guess who wins every time :)
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Vulcan on January 11, 2005, 05:24:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by NUKE
can you list some of the facts for me that have something to do with free elections in Arab states?


Yeah I could copy and past JB's posts for you, but seeing as your literacy appears to hitting the level of a simian I doubt it'd help.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: NUKE on January 11, 2005, 05:26:29 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Flyboy
jordan is not a democracy, its a monarch

Egypt is a so called democracy, only one party, so guess who wins every time :)


Your country is the gold standard for the Middle East.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Flyboy on January 11, 2005, 05:27:49 PM
just to clearify things, i think jordan and egypt are the most modern and developed countries in the arab world, and i have alot of respect of respect both to mubarak and abdallaa, both very brave leaders IMHO
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: thrila on January 11, 2005, 05:28:09 PM
Jordan's a constitutional monarchy, they've had elections since the late 80's.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: GRUNHERZ on January 11, 2005, 05:28:58 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
isreal is the bastion of democracy.  just ask the palestinians.


Arab israeli citizens in Israel can vote in the regular israeli elections - there are arabs in the knesset.  The palestenians in the west bank and gaza can vote in the palestenian government elections.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Flyboy on January 11, 2005, 05:30:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by thrila
Jordan's a constitutional monarchy, they've had elections since the late 80's.


i dont know thrila, i never heard of a jordan prime minister
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: NUKE on January 11, 2005, 05:31:11 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Flyboy
just to clearify things, i think jordan and egypt are the most modern and developed countries in the arab world, and i have alot of respect of respect both to mubarak and abdallaa, both very brave leaders IMHO


But your country is leaps and bounds ahead of them. Israel is a great nation, arab nations do not offer their citizens anything to speak of.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: NUKE on January 11, 2005, 05:34:03 PM
Quote
Originally posted by thrila
Jordan's a constitutional monarchy, they've had elections since the late 80's.


lol
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Flyboy on January 11, 2005, 05:39:35 PM
hey thrila a quick google search brought up the following:

jordan was found by the british after WW1, Abdala the first was declared ruler of jordan and his brother fiesel (sp?) was ruler of iraq.
after the death of abdala by an assasinated by palastinians in jerusalem, his son talal (sp?) was declared king, after his health deteriorated his son hussein was crowned, and then abdala the 2nd, which is the current ruler
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Momus-- on January 11, 2005, 05:41:47 PM
Wait a second, I distinctly remember a little war in 1991 aimed at "freeing" Kuwait. Or did I miss something?
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 11, 2005, 05:42:29 PM
Democracy In Jordan?

By Toujan Faisal and Ian Urbina

Znet
July 07, 2003

(AMMAN, Jordan) When Washington cites examples of the potential for reform and democracy in the Arab world, Jordan is one of the first countries mentioned. For the first time since 1997, Jordanians went to the polls last month to vote for parliament, and by most accounts the elections went smoothly. Voter turnout topped 52% and stability was maintained, with a clear majority of the seats going to pro-government candidates. Islamists, though they later questioned the outcome, added credibility to the process by taking part in the elections rather than boycotting them. In the end they captured only 17 out of 110 seats, far fewer than expected. Jordanian women took a step forward, with six parliamentary spots specially set aside for females.



free elections.    operative term.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Flyboy on January 11, 2005, 05:42:41 PM
well nuke, i will agree with you that israel is light years hahead of the arab states, there is still alot of chitty things here, far from ideal, or a gold standard.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 11, 2005, 06:08:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Momus--
Wait a second, I distinctly remember a little war in 1991 aimed at "freeing" Kuwait. Or did I miss something?


sadly yes.

note where it says that only 10% of the population even have the right to vote.

we did a bang up job on that one.




Government        Kuwait     
Top of Page
Country name:
   Definition Field Listing
conventional long form: State of Kuwait
conventional short form: Kuwait
local long form: Dawlat al Kuwayt
local short form: Al Kuwayt
Government type:
   Definition Field Listing
nominal constitutional monarchy
Capital:
   Definition Field Listing
Kuwait
Administrative divisions:
   Definition Field Listing
5 governorates (muhafazat, singular - muhafazah); Al Ahmadi, Al Farwaniyah, Al 'Asimah, Al Jahra', Hawalli
Independence:
   Definition Field Listing
19 June 1961 (from UK)
National holiday:
   Definition Field Listing
National Day, 25 February (1950)
Constitution:
   Definition Field Listing
approved and promulgated 11 November 1962
Legal system:
   Definition Field Listing
civil law system with Islamic law significant in personal matters; has not accepted compulsory ICJ jurisdiction
Suffrage:
   Definition Field Listing
adult males who have been naturalized for 30 years or more or have resided in Kuwait since before 1920 and their male descendants at age 21
note: only 10% of all citizens are eligible to vote; in 1996, naturalized citizens who do not meet the pre-1920 qualification but have been naturalized for 30 years were eligible to vote for the first time
Executive branch:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of state: Amir JABIR al-Ahmad al-Jabir Al Sabah (since 31 December 1977)
head of government: Prime Minister SABAH al-Ahmad al-Jabir Al Sabah (since 13 July 2003); First Deputy Prime Minister NAWWAF al-Ahmad Al Sabah (since 2003); Deputy Prime Ministers JABIR MUBARAK al-Hamad Al Sabah (since 2001) and Muhammad Dayfallah al-SHARAR (since 2003)
cabinet: Council of Ministers appointed by the prime minister and approved by the monarch
elections: none; the monarch is hereditary; prime minister and deputy prime ministers appointed by the monarch
Legislative branch:
   Definition Field Listing
unicameral National Assembly or Majlis al-Umma (50 seats; members elected by popular vote to serve four-year terms)
elections: last held 6 July 2003 (next to be held NA 2007)
election results: percent of vote - NA; seats - Islamists 21, government supporters 14, liberals 3, and independents 12; note - all cabinet ministers are also ex officio members of the National Assembly
Judicial branch:
   Definition Field Listing
High Court of Appeal
Political parties and leaders:
   Definition Field Listing
none; formation of political parties is illegal
Political pressure groups and leaders:
   Definition Field Listing
several political groups act as de facto parties: Bedouins, merchants, Sunni and Shi'a activists, and secular leftists and nationalists
 World War I



political parties are illegal?  but....but...

oh never mind.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 11, 2005, 06:13:56 PM
but our good friends the saudi's must be democratic right?  i mean, we go together like peas and carrots.

nope.

no vote.

Government        Saudi Arabia     
Top of Page
Country name:
   Definition Field Listing
conventional long form: Kingdom of Saudi Arabia
conventional short form: Saudi Arabia
local long form: Al Mamlakah al Arabiyah as Suudiyah
local short form: Al Arabiyah as Suudiyah
Government type:
   Definition Field Listing
monarchy
Capital:
   Definition Field Listing
Riyadh
Administrative divisions:
   Definition Field Listing
13 provinces (mintaqat, singular - mintaqah); Al Bahah, Al Hudud ash Shamaliyah, Al Jawf, Al Madinah, Al Qasim, Ar Riyad, Ash Sharqiyah (Eastern Province), 'Asir, Ha'il, Jizan, Makkah, Najran, Tabuk
Independence:
   Definition Field Listing
23 September 1932 (Unification of the Kingdom)
National holiday:
   Definition Field Listing
Unification of the Kingdom, 23 September (1932)
Constitution:
   Definition Field Listing
governed according to Shari'a (Islamic law); the Basic Law that articulates the government's rights and responsibilities was introduced in 1993
Legal system:
   Definition Field Listing
based on Islamic law, several secular codes have been introduced; commercial disputes handled by special committees; has not accepted compulsory ICJ jurisdiction
Suffrage:
   Definition Field Listing
none
note: in October 2003, Council of Ministers announced its intent to introduce elections for half of the members of local and provincial assemblies and a third of the members of the national Consultative Council or Majlis al-Shura, incrementally over a period of four to five years
Executive branch:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of state: King and Prime Minister FAHD bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud (since 13 June 1982, but largely incapacitated since late 1995); Crown Prince and First Deputy Prime Minister ABDALLAH bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud since 13 June 1982, also Saudi Arabian National Guard Commander since 1963 and de facto ruler since early 1996; note - the monarch is both the chief of state and head of government
head of government: King and Prime Minister FAHD bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud (since 13 June 1982, but largely incapacitated since late 1995); Crown Prince and First Deputy Prime Minister ABDALLAH bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud since 13 June 1982, also Saudi Arabian National Guard Commander since 1963 and de facto ruler since early 1996; note - the monarch is both the chief of state and head of government
cabinet: Council of Ministers is appointed by the monarch and includes many royal family members
elections: none; the monarch is hereditary
Legislative branch:
   Definition Field Listing
Consultative Council or Majlis al-Shura (120 members and a chairman appointed by the monarch for four-year terms)
Judicial branch:
   Definition Field Listing
Supreme Council of Justice
Political parties and leaders:
   Definition Field Listing
none
Political pressure groups and leaders:
   Definition Field Listing
none
International organization participation:
   Definition Field Listing
ABEDA, AfDB, AFESD, AMF, BIS, FAO, G-77, GCC, IAEA, IBRD, ICAO, ICC, ICRM, IDA, IDB, IFAD, IFC, IFRCS, ILO, IMF, IMO, Interpol, IOC, ISO, ITU, LAS, NAM, OAPEC, OAS (observer), OIC, OPCW, OPEC, PCA, UN, UNCTAD, UNESCO, UNIDO, UPU, WCO, WFTU, WHO, WIPO, WMO, WToO, WTrO (observer)
Diplomatic representation in the US:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of mission: Ambassador BANDAR bin Sultan bin Abd al-Aziz Al Saud
chancery: 601 New Hampshire Avenue NW, Washington, DC 20037
telephone: [1] (202) 342-3800
consulate(s) general: Houston, Los Angeles, and New York
Diplomatic representation from the US:
   Definition Field Listing
chief of mission: Ambassador James Curtis OBERWETTER
embassy: Collector Road M, Diplomatic Quarter, Riyadh
mailing address: American Embassy Riyadh, Unit 61307, APO AE 09803-1307; International Mail: P. O. Box 94309, Riyadh 11693
telephone: [966] (1) 488-3800
FAX: [966] (1) 488-3989
consulate(s) general: Dhahran, Jiddah (Jeddah)
Flag description:
   Definition Field Listing
green, a traditional color in Islamic flags, with the Shahada or Muslim creed in large white Arabic script (translated as "There is no god but God; Muhammad is the Messenger of God") above a white horizontal saber (the tip points to the hoist side); design dates to the early twentieth century and is closely associated with the Al Saud family which established the kingdom in 1932
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: hawker238 on January 11, 2005, 06:34:01 PM
STOP POSTING EVERY DAMN FACT!  JUST THE RELEVANT ONES!
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 11, 2005, 06:37:10 PM
ok.

"Guns don't kill people, dangerous minorities do!"

hows that?
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: hawker238 on January 11, 2005, 06:38:04 PM
Sounds spot on to me.

Wait, its not relevant.  Good try though.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Flyboy on January 11, 2005, 07:02:44 PM
lebanon is ruled by a puppet goverment that has no power of its own, and is completely depended on syria.
they recently changed their own constitution so their presedent could be "re elected" cause the president of syria likes him.


i think JB88 is just bored. or tired, or both..err wait thats me

anyway, keep posting long uninteresting "facts" i know all those copy and pastes are hard, but what are you doing is just so importent you got to keep it up..
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: oboe on January 11, 2005, 07:15:02 PM
NUKE,

Iran had a democratically elected leader before the Shah was inserted to power by the CIA.   But he ran afoul of Western nations good graces by nationalizing Iranian oil.   Fifty-one years ago, the CIA overthrew Mohammad Mossadegh, the popular, democratically elected prime minister of Iran, and reinstalled the country's exiled monarch, Mohammad Reza Shah.

Google any of the terms in the paragraph above for more information.    I don't blame you for not knowing - I didn't learn this in high school, but from a poster here a while ago.

Here's a link to a review of a book which would answer a lot of questions I bet:

All The Shah's Men (http://www.calendarlive.com/books/bookreview/cl-bk-keddie6jul06,0,499126.story?coll=cl-bookreview)

Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Elfie on January 11, 2005, 07:56:36 PM
Quote
sadly yes.


Quote
note where it says that only 10% of the population even have the right to vote.


Quote
we did a bang up job on that one.


Ummm....we didnt go to Kuwait to change their style of gov't, we only went there to kick out the Iraqi army. Maybe you should ask the Iraqi army if we did a *bang up job* on them ;)
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Crumpp on January 11, 2005, 09:07:29 PM
Don't forget JB88 to add:

The Peoples Republic of China

The North Korean Peoples Republic

Islamic Republic of Iran

Union of Soviet Socialist Republic

Peoples Democratic Republic of Vietnam

And the list goes on and on.......


Crumpp
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: bunch on January 12, 2005, 02:01:44 AM
Most patriotic Egyptians would be offended by being called arab.  They consider themselves a unique African culture.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Holden McGroin on January 12, 2005, 02:35:42 AM
I would have to agree bunch.  They seem to have a slightly different gait than Saudis. As a matter of fact a few years ago  I was at a bazaar in Cairo and...

All the kids in the marketplace say
Ay oh whey oh, ay oh whey oh
Walk like an Egyptian
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Momus-- on January 12, 2005, 03:13:02 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Elfie
Ummm....we didnt go to Kuwait to change their style of gov't, we only went there to kick out the Iraqi army. Maybe you should ask the Iraqi army if we did a *bang up job* on them ;)


You missed the point. Kuwait was "liberated". US troops occupied Saudi Arabia for over a decade. The Egyptian regime is propped up by US military and economic aid.  Neither society is particularly free. The topic starter is either:

1) Stupid
2) Trolling.

Seeing as it is Nuke, my money is on option 1.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Flyboy on January 12, 2005, 05:34:55 AM
SO? if a country get aid from the US its not free?

israel is COMPLETELY depended on the US
yet its free, so egypt..
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Fishu on January 12, 2005, 05:49:01 AM
It isn't necessarily a bad thing if the countrys leadership doesn't allow democratic elections, if the leaders are of good type - which they usually aren't.
There can be also wise "dictators", just as many as there can be much worse elected presidents.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: patrone on January 12, 2005, 07:45:01 AM
Quote
Afghanistan, Iraq and "Palestine" are all occupied. Why is it that they are the only 3 Arab nations that have or will have free elections?


Nuke, did you miss all geographical lessons in school or just parts of them?

How do you define an "Arab" country? Is it by population, religon or geographical?  
Palestine Arab? Egypt not Arab? Turk not Arab? Iran Arab (Infact they call themself Persians, they would get very insulted if you called them Arab)? Lybia Arab? Lebanon not Arab? Israel not Arab? Syria Arab? Kuwait Arab? Iraq Arab? Marocco not Arab? Tunisia not Arab?

And tell me how there can be "free elections" in a state that is occupied?

Would "free elections" supervised by either Nazis or Soviet made a diffrence?
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 12, 2005, 08:23:40 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Flyboy
SO? if a country get aid from the US its not free?

israel is COMPLETELY depended on the US
yet its free, so egypt..


to some, isreal is "free" in much the same way as native americans are "free" on reservations.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: GRUNHERZ on January 12, 2005, 08:27:05 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
to some, isreal is "free" in much the same way as native americans are "free" on reservations.


What a ridiculous analogy....
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Flyboy on January 12, 2005, 08:30:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
to some , isreal is "free" in much the same way as native americans are "free" on reservations.


:rolleyes:

did you thought twice before punching the reply bottun?
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: bozon on January 12, 2005, 08:40:14 AM
If I had to place a bet on the 1st arab democracy, I'd put it on the palestinians. No other arab nation is even close.
I give them 50% chance of success in the next 10 years.

Quote
Originally posted by Flyboy
SO? if a country get aid from the US its not free?

israel is COMPLETELY depended on the US
yet its free, so egypt..

The US is considered free even though it is controlled by Jews.

It's true! I read it on the internet!

Bozon
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: AWMac on January 12, 2005, 09:02:22 AM
(http://www.wendyknits.net/images/google.jpg)

:D
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: Momus-- on January 12, 2005, 09:12:06 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Flyboy
SO? if a country get aid from the US its not free?



Who said that?

Egypt is a far from free society. Rightly or wrongly, the US supports it regime. That is all.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 12, 2005, 09:23:43 AM
i think that you meant to ask, did i "think" twice before punching the reply button.

yep.
Title: Arabs, freedom, democracy
Post by: JB88 on January 12, 2005, 09:25:56 AM
Quote
Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
What a ridiculous analogy....


i am certain that if you feel that way it about it, it must have been a good one.

thanks.  ;)