Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JB88 on January 13, 2005, 04:54:49 AM
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"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they see fit. That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you see fit. On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with the Lord." - GWbush
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88 - you know what the worst part is?
wifeack - what?
88 - it hasnt started yet. the four more years hasnt even started yet.
wifeack - (blank understanding stare...followed by a kiss)
love that gal.
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Might be time to visit my little shop and pick up a bumper sticker:
http://www.cafepress.com/chairboy
It's a pretty obscure reference, but it should resonate with those that get it.
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ah... a Heinlein fan. ;)
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What's the problem with what he said?
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Originally posted by Sandman
ah... a Heinlein fan. ;)
Was about to ask...thanks for clearing that up for me.
Oh, and JB88, fret not.;)
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Originally posted by Sandman
ah... a Heinlein fan. ;)
Roger roger!
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Originally posted by JB88
"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they see fit. That's what distinguishes us from the Taliban. The greatest freedom we have or one of the greatest freedoms is the right to worship the way you see fit. On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with the Lord." - GWbush
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88 - you know what the worst part is?
wifeack - what?
88 - it hasnt started yet. the four more years hasnt even started yet.
wifeack - (blank understanding stare...followed by a kiss)
love that gal.
And this is posted because........
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What's your point?
Have we ever had a president that was not openely Christian?
Isnt he saying worship anyway you want or not, but I believe in god?
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I think that this was ment to be a quote showing Bush saying something stupid that actually boomeranged..... ;)
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OMG ...one time ...on TV......i saw clinton walking out of a CHURCH holding a BIBLE....OMG
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"Have we ever had a president that was not openely Christian?"
Yes.
J_A_B
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J_A_B
Who would that be?
Have we had one in the last 50 years?
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(http://www.geocities.com/lip_gloss_gals/troll13.gif)
Please Do Not Feed The JB88 !
:rofl
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It's fine that he's christian, the point of contention here is that he says he doesn't think anyone of another religion should lead this country.
Paraphrase, "Worship whoever you want, but the president should always be Christian."
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Originally posted by Chairboy
It's fine that he's christian, the point of contention here is that he says he doesn't think anyone of another religion should lead this country.
Paraphrase, "Worship whoever you want, but the president should always be Christian."
You go to school?
His point is that considering the responsibility and pressures of the office, he cannot understand how a person without a relationship with God could cope with those pressures and responsibilities....in other words, his faith helps him in the office.
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"Who would that be?"
Jefferson wasn't openly Christian, at least not in the same sense Bush is.
Lincoln wasn't known for being religious.
I think Andrew Johnson also didn't really practice.
Since the advent of the TV age, politicans find that being religious--or pretending to be--seems to gather more votes. I firmly believe that many modern day politicans are religious only in appearance.
GWB, like him or hate him, at least seems to genuinely believe in his faith.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by Rude
You go to school?
His point is that considering the responsibility and pressures of the office, he cannot understand how a person without a relationship with God could cope with those pressures and responsibilities....in other words, his faith helps him in the office.
Isn't the crux of this what he means by "Lord"? Does he mean God or Jesus? It's not interchangeble to non-christians and causes them concern...justfiable concern I would say.
hh
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Originally posted by Rude
..in other words, his faith helps him in the office.
... in other other words, rationality escapes him and he depends on a delusion of ignorance to "lead."
JB88, whats the date on that quote? I think he can stop pretending. He's got his 2nd term; no further pandering is necessary.
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Thanks J_A_B
I agree with you on them trying to appear that way.
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Originally posted by Rude
You go to school?
His point is that considering the responsibility and pressures of the office, he cannot understand how a person without a relationship with God could cope with those pressures and responsibilities....in other words, his faith helps him in the office.
I didnt interpret him as saying 'this job sucks eggs, you need religion just to get you through the day'.
Whether it was meant the way it came out is another matter.
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Originally posted by Rude
His point is that considering the responsibility and pressures of the office, he cannot understand how a person without a relationship with God could cope with those pressures and responsibilities....in other words, his faith helps him in the office.
I think you're close, but what he should have said was, "I could not be president without my faith."
I can give him the benefit of a doubt. Grammar isn't exactly his strength.
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"I don't see how you can be president at least from my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with the Lord."
The meaning is obvious, he is talking about himself and his view of what is important to his values.
But no, its much more fun to see it in an evil conspiracy way.... The reason jb posted this is due to his unheathy hatred of W, christianity and increasingly americas values and traditions.
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Originally posted by Rude
You go to school?
His point is that considering the responsibility and pressures of the office, he cannot understand how a person without a relationship with God could cope with those pressures and responsibilities....in other words, his faith helps him in the office.
Then he must love contemporary iranian goverment and political arangement...
AHA !!!! I GOT IT .... he Is not that stupid... he is only jealous because of all those pseudo islamic goverments are so successfuly in abusing ... ehmm.. sorry useing i mean .. god name :D
however do not be sad, we had religion watermelon in high politic here as well..... few hundret years ago ;)
btw is Darwin common subject at elementary schools or secondary high schools in US ?
Is it still mandatory to say that "prayer" like speach every morning at school ? (edit: at what kind of schools was/is this habbit? )
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Originally posted by lada
Then he must love contemporary iranian goverment and political arangement...
AHA !!!! I GOT IT .... he Is not that stupid... he is only jealous because of all those pseudo islamic goverments are so successfuly in abusing ... ehmm.. sorry useing i mean .. god name :D
however do not be sad, we had religion watermelon in high politic here as well..... few hundret years ago ;)
btw is Darwin common subject at elementary schools or secondary high schools in US ?
Is it still mandatory to say that "prayer" like speach every morning at school ?
Look lada I understand that europe is extremly secular even to the point where hates religion.
Yet, If you were only half as tolerant and multicultular and accepting as you boasted in some recent poasts about europe's diversity then there are a heck of a lot better ways to express it than comparing the US goverment and a us presidents personal faith to iran's theocratic dictatorship.
But you arent capable of that, so plese stuff it.
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actualy i had classmates at high school from Bosna and Ukrajina .... but you are quite right, we do not accept foreigners... only emreeka do it... viva viva viva ... [ how many europian countries refused to accept you during the war or after ? ]
Yeep in name of god did die more people that in name of Communism or Facism.
So basicaly religion connected to goverment is not option for people who can read and write IMO.
I dont know how old are you, but i think, that you are old enough to remember into what has been turned conflict in former Yugoslavia.
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Heh. :)
Just saying that the USA culture places a different value on religion, many here see it as valuable personal asset to overtcoming thrubles in life, a great source of hope and a positive way to bring a community together. If you look most of the great civil rights and anti slavery movements came from US churces, they were centers of the community and great places to make positive political change.
So I think its a big difference here in the sates and I think it's inappropriite, inaccurate and unfair that you compare the personal faith of a US president to the dictatorial religios rule of Iran. They are entirely different.
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um. not so much.
i think its a pretty fair, albiet extreme analogy.
and it certanly true that organized religion has been responsible for wholesale slaughter and repression. more so i would argue than any "church based" civil rights movements.
"the inquisition....what a show...."
i keep asking myself if jesus would have mounted saddams pistol or if he would have gone hunting with it.
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Still the real issue here is what he meant by the term "Lord". The term has very different meanings depending on wether you are Christian or not. As a Christian the implied meaning is Jesus. That statement would be cause for concern to non-Christians. Understandably. We can toss this back and forth and interpret all we want but, is it not incumbent on a man in the Presidents position to be absolutely clear on something such as this? It's not a subject to be cavalier about.
hh
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here here.
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Originally posted by HugeHead
Still the real issue here is what he meant by the term "Lord". The term has very different meanings depending on wether you are Christian or not. As a Christian the implied meaning is Jesus. That statement would be cause for concern to non-Christians. Understandably. We can toss this back and forth and interpret all we want but, is it not incumbent on a man in the Presidents position to be absolutely clear on something such as this? It's not a subject to be cavalier about.
hh
He is perfectly clear, he means in his personal view, reflecting on his personal needs and values as he currently carries out the responsibilities of this high office.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
He is perfectly clear, he means in his personal view, reflecting on his personal needs and values as he currently carries out the responsibilities of this high office.
Yes, he really does. He exactly did´nt hide anything about his personal views, so it should not really come as a suprise to anyone.
I have to go back to read my history books.
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Grunherz,
Im not sure you understand my point. He used the term "Lord" that is open for interpretation among many religions when spoken by a Christian. Since to Christians it implies Jesus and not God or even one in the same. That is a belief not shared by all. You are interpreting his meaning. A better perspective might be gained by asking a non-Christian how they percieve this quote.
He says in part - "On the other hand, I don't see how you can be president at least from my perspective, how you can be president, without a relationship with the Lord." - GWbush
Do you believe that the term "Lord" means the same in Christian faith as it does in other Religions? Having grown up a Christian my experience makes me think otherwise and that it has a special meaning (Christ our Lord) to us. The meaning some non-Christians may take from this is that the President of the US feels you must have a relationship with Jesus aka be a Christian to be President IHO.
No one should be surprised by this to be sure. His ties to the fundamentalist movement is well documented.
I think Sandman is probably right on the money with his last post. Please don't take this the wrong way...Im not trying to bash Bush .
hh
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I understand perfectly, "Lord" is open to interpretation as a speciifically christian reference, and I suppose that it is, because Bush is a Christian and I hope that we can agrre that he has every first ammended right to express his faith. However the context is clearly defined as it relates to Bush's personal views needs and values as the president at this time, ie what helps him, not as general statement that all presidents must be christians.
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"I fully understand that the job of the president is and must always be protecting the great right of people to worship or not worship as they see fit. "
Yeah, that sounds like the slippery slope to theocracy. :rolleyes:
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Selective reading? Okay :)
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Good God, what a bunch of nit picking *******s.
Originally posted by HugeHead
Still the real issue here is what he meant by the term "Lord".
There is no question of what he meant.
There is no doubt that he also stated that one of the most important principles that the leader of the United States of America should have is the principle of the right of the people to practice religion freely. No matter who their 'Lord' is.
Our president is a christian. Most of our country is christian.
Get over it.
The overwhelming majority of christians have no desire to impose their beliefs on others.
There is no controversy here,
"No establishment of religion"
None has been made, except by overzealous judges that are trying to create law.
I can't remember the last time I went to church, just to clarify my point.
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I have to ask: What is a butress?
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Originally posted by Saintaw
I have to ask: What is a butress?
How on earth doues a ferenchman not know whst a flying butess is?
They are the wall suports as seen on this quaint little chapel. ;)
(http://launay.org/5eme/big/notre-dame.jpg)
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flying buttress
n : a buttress that stands apart from the main structure and
connected to it by an arch [syn: arc-boutant]
(http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/~ajm/Pages/Graphics/flyingbuttress.JPG)
often used on gothic cathedrals.
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flying butress' had extended arches. much more flourishy than your standard butress.
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Ahhh 't has to do with Churches, my alergy to anything remotedly religious* might explain my ignorance :D
Thank you lads!
(I was hoping it was something nasty that had to do with butter on a butt... I am a little dissapointed.)
* Last time I found myself in a church, with a singing nun next to me still hurts. I still blame lada for this, you fe**er!!!
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lol
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True story:
Lada (Orel) being a squadie of mine sends me an email about a (girl) friend of his comming over to live in Antwerp, Belgium. He asks me if I want to play the tour guide, and show her around Brussels.
Being single at the time, I jump on the occasion, get in touch with her... we decide to meet in the main station downtown, where I'd pick her up & show her the town. (read: get her pissed and take advantage of the moment :p)
Waiting at the station, at one point, this girl, dressed from head to toe in pink comes towards me jumping around on one foot. (mhhh...oooookaaaaaaayyy... I think)
We sit down, have a coffee... and chat a little. Turns out she's an ex-nun. At this point I tell myself "Alain, you're an open minded guy... lets see how this day turns out".
No matter how open minded I thought I was, the only thing she was interested in visiting were churches and cathedrals (NOT my best subject)... I get along with the program and try to remember were those are... get into the 1st known church we find... I shut up (know nothing on the subject)... and appreciate the silence. That is, untill she starts singing (beautifull voice, mind you... just not my favourite kind of music).
The rest of the day was a blur of voices in my head going "fe* fe* fe*!!!!" and hoping no-one I knew saw me enter a church.
Edited for f***ing E letter not werking properly on my keyboard!
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Originally posted by JB88
flying buttress
n : a buttress that stands apart from the main structure and
connected to it by an arch [syn: arc-boutant]
often used on gothic cathedrals.
You should have used arc-boutant and no one would have ask even the wanabe frenchman from outre-quiévrain :D
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Originally posted by Saintaw
Ahhh 't has to do with Churches, my alergy to anything remotedly religious* might explain my ignorance :D
I was like you before, very much against religion and ridicuiling the bible etc. However I have since gained a new respect for it all after I took some Bible history courses. Though I dont consider myself a practing religious person I do find that the bible is an extremely fascvinating well written and engaging piece of literature, one well wrth looking into. Give it a try, lerarn something new, you might find some value in it.
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I was brought up as a christian as well Grun, up to the point were I did my confirmation. (I had a broken rib and that mo******er forced me to sing.). I never 'believed' though, these were my parent's choices.
My own choices are different (can you tell?). I have no problem with anyone believing in a god per-se... I have problems with the behaviour people have regarding it, and using it as an excuse. Be it the priests in small villages round here that extort money from families who's children can't aford shoes, or the mullahs that send children to war on a "holy path".
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Straffo : Pffffffrttttttttttttttt!!!! :p
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Originally posted by Saintaw
I was brought up as a christian as well Grun, up to the point were I did my confirmation. (I had a broken rib and that mo******er forced me to sing.). I never 'believed' though, these were my parent's choices.
My own choices are different (can you tell?). I have no problem with anyone believing in a god per-se... I have problems with the behaviour people have regarding it, and using it as an excuse. Be it the priests in small villages round here that extort money from families who's children can't aford shoes, or the mullahs that send children to war on a "holy path".
Same thing here, altar boy and all. Then in my teens I went like you did but now now I'm seeing it has some value maybe.
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Gee, just as the framers of the constitution, W believes in the Creator...God. He didn't say which God......believe as you wish. He didn't even say you should believe.
He said he believes the president should have beliefs (Forgive the paraphrase).
Frankly, no more than I am threatened by the references to the Creator in our most hallowed documents, and no more than I am threatened by the use of the Bible in inaugurations, am I threatened by a believing president.
God bless George Bush, the other leaders of our country, and the troops in harm's way.