Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: ygsmilo on February 02, 2000, 10:37:00 AM
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Last nite I started to use the manual trim in some of the furballs (knights down to 3 fields, no dar, within 2 hrs rule the arena, thats a momentum shift) at times it seemed to really help other times I felt like it really got me in trouble. Do you Experten use the trim all the time? Sometimes it seems like my stick freaks out, MS SW FF pro,it is a pain to recal all the time, think I will look at the logic tech stick.
Milo
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I have problems with trim myself. After a VERY long time flying without using any sort of rudder control. I've managed to get a stick with twist so I can control rudders. Now I find myself spinning almost constantly and me E state suffers alot more than it did.
I would appreciate any and all suggestions on when to use rudders and when not to use rudders in flight.
Thanks in advance!
BaneX
=357th Pony Express=
"Need a package delivered? Call the Pony Express"
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Well, I ain't no experten, but...
I use trim a lot, but mostly auto trims. (Some call it auto pilot.) Climbing out, I am in "speed" trim, enroute (or running on the deck) I am in "level" trim.
In a fight, I'll use "angle" trim, or the manual trims. In a straight dive or zoom, I unload and set "angle" trim. This keeps the plane trimmed as the speed changes, and minimizes E loss. When I have to maneuver during a large speed change (B&Z), I use the manual elevator and aileron trims, always trying to keep the stick near center. This gives me more precise stick control. In a turn fight, I will sometimes use manual elevator trim to keep the stick near center. The second that I am out of the fight, I will set one of the auto trims to maintain trim and E.
I have the auto "angle" trim mapped to a button on my throttle, and the manual vator and aileron trims mapped to a hat on the throttle. So, I can be trimming with my left hand, while flying and shooting with the right.
popeye
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Note: you can use the manuel trim while in angle trim mode,i.e. fine tune adjustments when auto-angle is set in dive, you can adjust it manually...this helps if you have a FW190 ,believe me!
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Defected~)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977
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No experten here either but can hold my own usually. I used to fly the 51 predominantly and was trimming the plane constantly as my E state changed. I used the auto-trim features for climbout and cruising prior to any engagement and once I found an enemy I would use elevator trim and aileron trim all throughout combat. I never mess with rudder trim during combat. Mostly I trim nose down as I dive in and nose up during the zoomup. I found that using the elevator trim(nose down/up) to line up the shot a much more precise way to aim than trying to line it up with the joystick. I will also trim out any tendencies for the plane to roll using aileron trim as my speed changes.
I have a CH ProThrottle and have mapped the aileron and elevator trim to one of the hats. It was a little odd at first since I never had to worry about trim in AW but it is now something I do without thought and it does make a world of difference.
-Ding
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Ripsnort
I have attempted the fly the FW offline and find myself either in a spin or stall, it seems like you need to be very gentle w your control inputs to be very successful with it. I am in the 205 now because is seems a little more forgiving.
Milo
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Not that I am an expert pilot, but here is what I do regarding manual trim:
I use aileron and elevator trim the most when dogfighting, so I have both mapped to my joystick & throttle on seperate hats that are manipulated by different hands. The important thing is that you need to be able to trim both at the same time. If you use the keyboard and have difficulty manipulating the four trim keys at the same time with your left hand, you might consider remapping (I dunno, never used the keyboard).
In general I try to let auto-trim set for me when possible. I start manually manipulating trim during dives and climbs and especially if I feel out of trim when saddling up behind someone for a shot.
At low speeds, such as after climbing to reach a fight, your plane will have a lot of leftward roll. Auto-trim will trim your ailerons to the right to compensate. It will also trim your elevator up to generate the lift to keep you flying straight at that speed. As you dive and begin to pick up speed, you will start to notice your plane rolling to the right as it gets out of trim. At this point I start manually tweaking aileron trim to the left. In addition, you will start to feel your dive shallow out as the upward elevator trim tries to make you climb. When I start feeling this, I tweak the elevator trim downward. When you get going very fast at the bottom of your dive, your elevator and aileron trim settings will be set pretty much in the middle and you will be flying straight as an arrow for a shot on whatever target you are bouncing. When I climb again you simply reverse the process, or finish with an auto-trim at the top.
Doing that whenever my speed goes up or down pretty much keeps me in trim for a steady shot whenever I have to take one. If I ever do feel out of trim when closing on someone and hitting auto-trim isn't feasible, I tweak as necessary there.
Keep trying at it and after awhile you will get the feel for when and how to manually trim your plane. Soon it will become second nature. I don't ever think about it now, its just something I do automatically.
Gordo
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YgsMilo:
I don't even think about trying to turn in FW unless speed is over 250 and I never loop in it, hammar heads only. It's the most difficult plane to fly in Aces High, for those who don't think so, try doing it for a week straight...I like the challenge of the FW, I fly it for 75% of my sorites, but it has some shortcomings that I hope will soon be addressed by HTC...don't ask me what they are, just fly it for a week and you'll know what I'm talking about.
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Brian "Ripsnort" Nelson
++JG2++ ~Richthofen~
(Formerly VF-101 Grim Reapers~Defected~)
"There is no reason anyone would
want a computer in their home."
Ken Olson, president, chairman and
founder of Digital Equipment Corp.,1977
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So do any of you use rudder at all except for take off and landing??
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BaneX
=357th Pony Express=
"Need a package delivered? Call the Pony Express"
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So do any of you use rudder at all except for take off and landing??
Yup...frequently while trying to line up a snapshot if the target is a bit off the nose.
-Ding
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I use rudder while flying, I just don't adjust rudder trim save for when auto trim does it for me.
Gordo
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A note about rudder use:
In Aces High, large slip angles will about stop you dead in the air. If you hit full rudder in either direction, you WILL drop to 150 IAS or so in a big hurry, and likely spin in a plane like the FW. I do use rudder, but I scale it down heavily. I use a curve from near-0 to about 50% up until the last 2 sliders on the rudder, then I ramp those two up in even steps to the top. This way I use the rudder for the fine adjustments, and I use only the last bit of stick twist travel for full rudder deflection. Only use full rudder deflection as airbrakes, because that is their effect in AH at the moment.
Just be aware, if you are trying to stay fast, using a bunch of rudder is going to blow all of your E. Be vewy vewy gentle on the rudder or scale it back a bunch.
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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Just be aware, if you are trying to stay fast, using a bunch of rudder is going to blow all of your E.
Another thing to note is that during low speed turns, your plane will have a tendency to incur some slip and you will need to hold some rudder to help your plane cut thru the turn. If you continue to turn without using rudder, your plane will not turn as effectively and will thus not hold its E as well. Its a two sided coin.
-Ding
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Dont let rip fool you, he likes the 190 because its the spray and pray and run bunnies favorite (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
<G,D,R>
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Thanks guys.. having never used rudder wasn't sure how it affected my flight. Guess I'll have to scale it down a lot so I can quit killin my E (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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BaneX
=357th Pony Express=
"Need a package delivered? Call the Pony Express"
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I use rudder often in turns. I use "Rudder Kicks", not sustained rudder deflections. This effect becomes much more useful at slower speeds.
Depending upon what I am trying to accomplish I might control coordinated or un-cordinated flight with my rudder. IE: In a turn, kick the rudder first one way then the other way.
With practice you can greatly increase roll rate into a turn or course reversal. Particularly in turns that you intend a 180 degree or more, course change.
My objective is not to change the direction the nose of my plane is headed, but to swivel (kick} the tail around. The tail acting as a lever to piont the nose the way I want it to go. The tail has less mass and moves much faster in relation to how fast the nose can move.
My advice, think of positioning your tail as much as you think of positioning your nose. Turning in this fashion, you are not "Pulling G's" to turn, and you can conserve some E. IE: For a verticle turn, do not try to get the nose down, try to get the tail up.
Good Luck! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Mino
[This message has been edited by Minotaur (edited 02-03-2000).]
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Lephturn-
Great advice on the rudder scaling. I reconfig last nite and had much more control. Any newbies like me make sure you use this advice, you will have a lot more fun.
Milo
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Yup...started AH with my rudder configured to max 50% since it was so much more sensitive than I was used to. I've since notched it all the way up. You get used to it quick.
- Ding
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Originally posted by BaneX:
So do any of you use rudder at all except for take off and landing??
Extensively, sir. Use rudder in both TO and landing. Use rudder in flight to keep level when scoping the bogies in a bank. Use rudder to increase my turn rate, (a lil flap helps too). Use rudder to kick my nose 180 when reversing on a lower enema. Use rudder... Well ya gets the picture that I use the rudder. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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O.E. 'Tern' Dillon
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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Originally posted by Dingy:
Yup...frequently while trying to line up a snapshot if the target is a bit off the nose.
-Ding
Dingy lies... I use the rudder for that, but Dingy takes the kill credits. :P
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O.E. 'Tern' Dillon
"Live to Fly! Fly to Fight! Fight to Live!"
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Originally posted by Tern:
Extensively, sir. Use rudder in both TO and landing. Use rudder in flight to keep level when scoping the bogies in a bank. Use rudder to increase my turn rate, (a lil flap helps too). Use rudder to kick my nose 180 when reversing on a lower enema. Use rudder... Well ya gets the picture that I use the rudder. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Also, depressing the rudder while in a bank will dramatically slow you down. It can be used as an airbrake effect to force an overshoot when timed correctly. It can also allow steep but short approaches to landing if you are too fast and high near the runway.
MiG