Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Drunky on January 16, 2005, 01:32:36 PM
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Is he a uniter or a divider?
All the talent in the world isn't going to help you if you don't know what the play is and walk off the field during a fake field goal.
My vote is a divider.
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Originally posted by Drunky
Is he a uniter or a divider?
All the talent in the world isn't going to help you if you don't know what the play is and walk off the field during a fake field goal.
My vote is a divider.
Divider
I hope they trade him.
Question is. who wants him?
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Whoops. Looks like I'm wrong about the field goal try.
A commentator pointed out at the beginning of the third quarter that Randy Moss was a twelfth man and needed to get off the field.
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Interesting concept for a play, but I did notice the 12 people too.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Divider
I hope they trade him.
Question is. who wants him?
he'd fit in at Oakland.
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Randy Moss is way overrated, just like Terrel Owens.
You want a good reciever to watch, watch Torry Holt play.
Canaris
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Dallas had the opportunity to draft Moss and passed. What does that tell you?
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Originally posted by Canaris
Randy Moss is way overrated, just like Terrel Owens.
You want a good reciever to watch, watch Torry Holt play.
Canaris
you want a good reciever? Troy Brown, who else breaks up a 4th down pass play, trots down field to return the punt and then lines up on the line to recieve.
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Not sure about Moss, but somebody was stinkin up the joint yesterday... and he definitely wore purple.
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culpepper
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Originally posted by SunKing
he'd fit in at Oakland.
Naaa that misfit mistiuqe isnt there any more. I think thats part of that teams problems. They kinda lost their identity.
The Raiders old legend, the Raiders of old perhaps.
Though I wouldnt mind trading him for Warren Sapp.
No. I think he needs to be someplace like Cincinnati or Cleavland
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Terrel Owens is not over rated. McNabb is. Give Owens a good QB and the eagles would be unstoppable. The entire defensive line could cover TO and he'd still beat them.
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Originally posted by lasersailor184
Terrel Owens is not over rated. McNabb is. Give Owens a good QB and the eagles would be unstoppable. The entire defensive line could cover TO and he'd still beat them.
Defensive line? ROFL
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Originally posted by Mini D
culpepper
Culpepper is fine. Its the Defence that sucks
Like the saying goes
"Offence wins games, Defence Wins Championships"
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Originally posted by Monk
you want a good reciever? Troy Brown, who else breaks up a 4th down pass play, trots down field to return the punt and then lines up on the line to recieve.
you read the quote from him saying that at one point he was so tired that he could hear his hamstrings pop?
that guys is unbelievable
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Though I wouldnt mind trading him for Warren Sapp.
WHAT??? Dude, Warren Sapp is OLD, SLOW and had a BAD year. COD but I HATE people who talk like they know football!!:mad:
That's it Dreadiok- I'm blowing off work, going to the airport and I'm catching the first flight back to New Joisey to beat you up!!:mad:
You deserve it just for being the worst amatuer GM EVAR!!!:mad:
BTW, Raiders lost their mistique? Barrett Robbins was shot by police last night...looks like same ol' Raiders to me. Of course, because he's white all you O'Club Bling Bling watchers will ignore that fact and, instead, become morally offended over a Randy Moss endzone gesture....
Amazing how all you right wingers, so willing to decry political correctness, get your panties in a bunch over black atheletes. Perhaps if we casterated pro atheletes you'd feel less offended...
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Originally posted by Airhead
WHAT??? Dude, Warren Sapp is OLD, SLOW and had a BAD year. COD but I HATE people who talk like they know football!!:mad:
That's it Dreadiok- I'm blowing off work, going to the airport and I'm catching the first flight back to New Joisey to beat you up!!:mad:
You deserve it just for being the worst amatuer GM EVAR!!!:mad:
BTW, Raiders lost their mistique? Barrett Robbins was shot by police last night...looks like same ol' Raiders to me. Of course, because he's white all you O'Club Bling Bling watchers will ignore that fact and, instead, become morally offended over a Randy Moss endzone gesture....
Amazing how all you right wingers, so willing to decry political correctness, get your panties in a bunch over black atheletes. Perhaps if we casterated pro atheletes you'd feel less offended...
:rofl
Yes but he is not a team divider like moss is
C'mon the Raiders aint the same as they used to be when they had maniac players like Alzado and John Matuszak.
I loved those Raider teams. they were Barbarians.
Now way can those teams be put in even the same luage as todays Raiders. They had that mistique. That...thing. Its just not there like it used to be.
Cant just go by criminal activity as criminal activity among pro athletes is about as common now as weeds in a poorly maintained lawn
Moss Im not sure would fit in well with those teams either. Not because he isnt a good player. He is.
But he's all about himself.
Those players did antics but they were team players.
with Moss its all about moss
LOL Im not a right Winger. Im not a left winger either.
And Moss didnt offend me.
He's just acting like an A-hole and he is all about himself and not the team.
The antics he pulls effects his team if they want to admit it or not.
and the Team. overall plays more like a team on Both sides of the ball when he isnt there
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Culpepper is fine. Its the Defence that sucks
Like the saying goes
"Offence wins games, Defence Wins Championships"
You're suggesting that philly has a defense? What philly team have you been watching this year?
It's hard for a defense to keep a team from scoring when an offense is more than willing to hand the ball over.
Culpepper has a rich tradition of bad decisions in important games. The only reason he's viewed as an allstar is because he has Randy Moss lining up. Take that away and he's a quarterback that's intercepted 5-10 more times a year and has to scramble more than fran tarkington.
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>>C'mon the Raiders aint the same as they used to be when they had maniac players like Alzado and John Matuszak.
<<
Yea, they cracked down on steroid use. That monkey blood will make you nuts.
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Moss is not that bad. Id like to see if any of you could make some of the catches he makes. I know i cant. Tice even said that there was miss communication on everyones part on the fake field goal attempt. If you try pinning that on Moss you need a reality check. What really gets me by the short hairs is how everyone made a big deal about Moss "mooning" the packers fans. What no one talks about is how when the Vikes were at Lambo earlier in the season, after the game, the packer fans were throwing beer and mooning the vikings players. Im not saying that was right for what he did, but payback is a b*tch! Wait till next season, it should be good all around.
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Beer and mooning? Anyone remember the Philly fans throwing battery cored snowballs at Veteran's Stadium?
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Originally posted by Mini D
You're suggesting that philly has a defense? What philly team have you been watching this year?
It's hard for a defense to keep a team from scoring when an offense is more than willing to hand the ball over.
Culpepper has a rich tradition of bad decisions in important games. The only reason he's viewed as an allstar is because he has Randy Moss lining up. Take that away and he's a quarterback that's intercepted 5-10 more times a year and has to scramble more than fran tarkington.
Philly has a much better defence then its given credit for
And one of the best at the most important stat. Points allowed. in Fact only the Steelers give up less points and only New England matches it.
Interestingly enough none of the 5 top ranked teams in Total defence even made it to the playoffs.
As for the Vikings. While the offence didnt always play outstanding. it was the defence that consistantly let them down. Especially on 3rd down.
The offence in the majority of the games played well enough to win.
As for Culpeper and moss
In the 5 games since the Moss injury Till he came back against the Jags and not including the second half of the NO Game.
Culpeper
Completed 113 of 166 pass attempts
for 1,003 yards
57 1st downs
9 TDs
3 INTs
Thats not too shabby for any QB
In the Philly game Both sides misfired but again the Defence and again let them down Allowing 23 first downs. 4 by penalty
Neither of Culpepers interceptions lead to Philly scores of any kind.
Nothing wrong with scrambling. I'd rather have a QB that can scramble then a pure pocket passer.
I view a QB that can scramble as more of an asset then someone who can only stay in the pocket.
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Just an impression...I may be wrong...but cutting salaries by 75% might eliminate the punks who don't really love the game and are only in it for the money...or to act like punks on camera.
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Originally posted by rpm
Dallas had the opportunity to draft Moss and passed. What does that tell you?
That the Cowboys' front office is run by idiots.
But we already knew that.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Just an impression...I may be wrong...but cutting salaries by 75% might eliminate the punks who don't really love the game and are only in it for the money...or to act like punks on camera.
I would agree. Might also go a long way to them easing up on some of these rules and let the players actualy play the game.
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What no one talks about is how when the Vikes were at Lambo earlier in the season, after the game, the packer fans were throwing beer and mooning the vikings players.
Keep saying it... some people will believe you.. I'm sure of it.
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Originally posted by Steve
Keep saying it... some people will believe you.. I'm sure of it.
Are you saying he's lying?
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Yes. Let me make it plain: He's lying.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Philly has a much better defence then its given credit for
And one of the best at the most important stat. Points allowed. in Fact only the Steelers give up less points and only New England matches it.
They are properly given credit. The number you seemed to be concerned with has just as much dependance on the fact that 6 of their games were division games with 3 teams that are all in the bottom 10 of the NFL in scoring. Like I said... you must be WATCHING a different defense than me.As for the Vikings. While the offence didnt always play outstanding. it was the defence that consistantly let them down. Especially on 3rd down.
The offence in the majority of the games played well enough to win.
Both let the team down. The Minesota defense did not keep the Minesota offense out of the endzone... the offense did. To dismiss it as anything other than shoddy play by the offense is simply odd.As for Culpeper and moss
In the 5 games since the Moss injury Till he came back against the Jags and not including the second half of the NO Game.
Culpeper
Completed 113 of 166 pass attempts for 1,003 yards
57 1st downs
9 TDs
3 INTs
Thats not too shabby for any QB
Take the game stats individually on that one. If I do recall, most of that came in one game against one of the worst defenses in the league (Greenbay). He didn't get more than 250 yards in any of the other games... less than 200 in 2 of them. 4 games with 5 TDs and 3 INTS.
Moss was missed.In the Philly game Both sides misfired but again the Defence and again let them down Allowing 23 first downs. 4 by penalty
Neither of Culpepers interceptions lead to Philly scores of any kind.
Hehehe... you realize that's because of the defense... not the offense? You're saying culpepper didn't hurt the team because the d happened to pick up the slop those two times, then blame the D for the rest of the game and ignore that the O wasn't able to help out at all. Gotcha.Nothing wrong with scrambling. I'd rather have a QB that can scramble then a pure pocket passer.
I view a QB that can scramble as more of an asset then someone who can only stay in the pocket.
Can scramble vs has to scramble. The scramble is a symptom of a few things, mostly the front line being innefective, but also quarterback fixation on primary receivers. This is something Culpepper suffers from in the extreme.
Take someone like Joe Montana... he was as much of a pocket passer as you'll see. He excelled at spotting the open receiver even if it was his 3rd option and doing it in less than 3 seconds. Good field decisions... great quarterback.
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Read it and weep. Or better yet, apologize.
source (http://www.indystar.com/articles/7/208578-7747-036.html)
Randy Moss likely will draw a fine from the NFL, but Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy had to chuckle nonetheless when he saw the Minnesota Vikings' wide receiver pretend to moon the fans at Lambeau Field on Sunday.
Dungy knew Moss' gesture -- acting as if he was dropping his pants and mooning the end-zone crowd after catching a 34-yard touchdown pass in the fourth quarter of the Vikings' 31-17 victory -- was tantamount to payback.
"I thought it was kind of humorous," Dungy said Monday afternoon. "Anybody that's played in the NFC Central knows what that's all about.
"Green Bay has a reputation with their fans being great, and they really are. But one of their traditions is when they beat you, they stand around the parking lot, all around the fence, and they moon the bus when you leave."
It's a cheeky scene Dungy has been exposed to many times during a coaching career that has included stints with Packers rivals Tampa Bay and Minnesota.
"I've seen that seven times having lost seven times in a row up there, and I'm sure Randy's seen it a lot," he said. "So that was just a nice here-you-go back to the fans who moon the buses.
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Yes. Let me make it plain: He's lying.
i beleve it,,its all over the web right now,,many qoutes from dungy on it,,whats so hard to beleve about some fans mooning some players? heck i see that every time are local high school wins,,kids going threw town mooning,,hehe..but not sure on the beer part<~~thats a waste of good beer,lol
Others wondered what all the fuss was about. Speaking on Fox Sports Radio on Monday morning, Indianapolis Colts coach Tony Dungy -- a former Vikings assistant -- offered some historical context.
"Probably no one in the country can appreciate what is behind that," Dungy said. "What happens ... when you leave the parking lot in Green Bay, that's kind of a tradition their fans have. They stand next to the fence as the buses go out and they moon the buses.
Asked Monday about Dungy's comments and whether he's seen Green Bay fans moon opposing players as they left the stadium in buses, Vikings coach Mike Tice said "Yeah, I've seen that."
"I always felt that Green Bay fans had a tremendous amount of class," Tice continued. "I didn't see that displayed particularly often [Sunday], and some of the things that I heard were unlike Green Bay fans."
http://www.startribune.com/stories/510/5178993.html
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Originally posted by Steve
Yes. Let me make it plain: He's lying.
Originally posted by rpm
Read it and weep. Or better yet, apologize.
source (http://www.indystar.com/articles/7/208578-7747-036.html)
Somebody's awfully quiet! (cough) Steve (/cough)
(http://gilbertv.com/coppermine/albums/06042004/owned_jc.jpg)
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Originally posted by Mini D
They are properly given credit. The number you seemed to be concerned with has just as much dependance on the fact that 6 of their games were division games with 3 teams that are all in the bottom 10 of the NFL in scoring. Like I said... you must be WATCHING a different defense than me.Both let the team down. The Minesota defense did not keep the Minesota offense out of the endzone... the offense did. To dismiss it as anything other than shoddy play by the offense is simply odd.Take the game stats individually on that one. If I do recall, most of that came in one game against one of the worst defenses in the league (Greenbay). He didn't get more than 250 yards in any of the other games... less than 200 in 2 of them. 4 games with 5 TDs and 3 INTS.
Moss was missed.Hehehe... you realize that's because of the defense... not the offense? You're saying culpepper didn't hurt the team because the d happened to pick up the slop those two times, then blame the D for the rest of the game and ignore that the O wasn't able to help out at all. Gotcha. Can scramble vs has to scramble. The scramble is a symptom of a few things, mostly the front line being innefective, but also quarterback fixation on primary receivers. This is something Culpepper suffers from in the extreme.
Take someone like Joe Montana... he was as much of a pocket passer as you'll see. He excelled at spotting the open receiver even if it was his 3rd option and doing it in less than 3 seconds. Good field decisions... great quarterback.
Dunno how often you get to See Philly play out there in Oragon But here I get to see them every week.
Thats a far better defence then your giving credit for
Dunno what Defence your seeing
You dont have to explain to me the symptoms and reasons behind players reactions. While not on a professional level I've actually coached the game.
Yes there were times when the line broke down.
the line was also banged up for a good part of the season.
Other times Receivers just didnt get open.
As often as anything I've seen Culpepper with plenty of time end up having to scramble simply because nobody was open.
You can only reasonably expect a line to give you about 3 seconds of protection time. Anything beyond that is gravey.
Target fixation is hardly one of Culpeppers problems
Receiving Stats
Player No Yds Avg Long TD
Nate Burleson 68 1006 14.8 68 9
Randy Moss 49 767 15.7 82 13
Jermaine Wiggins 71 705 9.9 39 4
Marcus Robinson 47 657 14.0 50 8
Onterrio Smith 36 394 10.9 63 2
Kelly Campbell 19 364 19.2 61 1
Mewelde Moore 27 238 8.8 26 0
Moe Williams 21 233 11.1 28 1
Michael Bennett 21 207 9.9 38 1
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LOL! You didn't just list runningbacks as proof he isn't target fixated.... did you? I mean.... half of those "team leaders" are runningbacks.
Fixated means he looks at the primary for too long. He doesn't go to the secondary nearly enough. Passing to runningbacks does not support your point. Not even remotely.
He doesn't know how to handle multiple receivers. This is not a good thing. It is a bad thing. No matter how fast he can run... er... I mean how well he can scramble.
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Let me start off by saying I am not a Moss fan. However there are a few good things he does that no one else does. At all the Vikings home games he brings handicapped kids and adults to the game and had a special area set up for them at ground level .The Vikings orginization built a small fence around them so they would not be hurt. After every touchdown he scores he runs to that section and gives the ball away. On more then one home game he paid for serviceman who lost limbs in Afganistan and Iraq to be in that section , then had the whole team spend time with them. Yes he is a Butt head and classless on the field however I think what he does for the vets and handicapped makes up for it. And no I'm not a Viking fan I'm a poor Jet fan.
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I just had this exact discussion with a friend yesturday. Summary was both Moss and Owens are very talented on the field of play. Both have histories of acting the fool. My friend and I both agree that football has become a much different game. There is some guy celebrating after EVERY play, no matter if it was a great play or a lack-lustre play.
Why is it you rarely see the Solo athletes like golfers, or tennis players or bowlers do some bizzare victory dance when they win soley on their own merrit? Yet the guy who catches the TD pass dances for 30-50 seconds, while he ignores the entire front line that kept his QB safe long enough for him to get open to make the damn catch.
IMO, I would like to see the NFL draft entirely new laws about celebrations, actions between plays, and things of the like. These laws should be widely publicized, pehaps making all players sign that they are in fact aware of the new laws in place. Then these laws should be strictly enforced with heavy fines and penalties. This is a sport, and it should be made to have SPORTSMANSHIP!
(edit) IMO Moss is just trying to get some exposure, why else the stupid retro-fro. If the NFL would take steps to keep him and others like him from acting this way, it would better the entire game for me and my family. His actions and the simialr actions of other players, IMO divides the team and the game.
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Sorry rpm.. this thread isn't interesting so I don't come back to it much. Dungy is full of shiit. Piss off.
beleve it,,its all over the web right now
Except no-one in Green Bay has ever heard of it. My family has season tickets at Lambeau(for 30 years or so now), no-one in my family has ever heard of it being some kind of tradition, never seen it. I'm going to believe my own eyes, having been there, and that of my family and friends who have been there over some opposing coach and the clowns who say it must be true because Dungy said so.
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Originally posted by Mini D
LOL! You didn't just list runningbacks as proof he isn't target fixated.... did you? I mean.... half of those "team leaders" are runningbacks.
Fixated means he looks at the primary for too long. He doesn't go to the secondary nearly enough. Passing to runningbacks does not support your point. Not even remotely.
He doesn't know how to handle multiple receivers. This is not a good thing. It is a bad thing. No matter how fast he can run... er... I mean how well he can scramble.
Considering those stats are for "Receptions". Yes I did include runningbacks as well as receivers.
When running backs go out for a pass they are indeed considered receivers.
In the scheme they run often the Running back IS the primary target. Sometimes its the tight end, sometimes its the wide receiver.
The wide receiver is not ALWAYS the primary target
Your obviously pretty clueless as to either How an offence is run.
Orrrr you have been playing too much football in your back yard.
you definately do not have a clue as to how that offence is run.
Not all plays are designed for the deep ball or to the wide receiver.
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Actually... you're acting pretty clueless here drediock... really.
I'm saying that cullpepper hits his primary receiver or he scrambles. If it's a runningback, then fine. If it's a wide receiver then fine. If it's a TE then fine.
listing different people with receptions does nothing to disprove that point. The fact that 4 runningbacks are so prominent there implies that the viks run alot of screen plays or quick slants... OR... dante doesn't know how to look downfield for more than one receiver and either hits the primary, looks immediately to a runningback, or runs.
He's the epitomy of a target fixated quarterback. You refusing to admit that does not make you look like the football genius you seem to be trying to convince me you are.
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P.S. You're dogging a defense for giving up 23 first downs and praising a defense that gave up 21 first downs. I guess 22 is the magic number?
Both defenses played comparable games. The main difference is that one offense was more inept than the other.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Actually... you're acting pretty clueless here drediock... really.
I'm saying that cullpepper hits his primary receiver or he scrambles. If it's a runningback, then fine. If it's a wide receiver then fine. If it's a TE then fine.
listing different people with receptions does nothing to disprove that point. The fact that 4 runningbacks are so prominent there implies that the viks run alot of screen plays or quick slants... OR... dante doesn't know how to look downfield for more than one receiver and either hits the primary, looks immediately to a runningback, or runs.
He's the epitomy of a target fixated quarterback. You refusing to admit that does not make you look like the football genius you seem to be trying to convince me you are.
And alot of those screens /quick slants etc etc etc were to the second/third and sometimes fourth receiver.
I was assuming you ment that the wide reciver was always the primary target..
In fact it isnt.
On the other hand as often as not. slants. and screens are the result of the primary receiver not being open.
I am refusing to admit that he is a primary target fixated QB, because in fact that statement is blatently untrue.
and is in fact absurd.
How you can even make that statment and expect it to be taken seriously when cupepper lead the league in BOTH Yards and completions is beyond me.
Nobody gets that many completions by just going to the primary receiver.
Im not claiming to be a football genius
But its obvious you arent either by your assumptions
Your insistance he is only tells me that you have watched few of his games and have no idea how that offence works
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Originally posted by Mini D
P.S. You're dogging a defense for giving up 23 first downs and praising a defense that gave up 21 first downs. I guess 22 is the magic number?
Both defenses played comparable games. The main difference is that one offense was more inept than the other.
Try looking at the Defences and compairing them over the course of the season.
that stat your mentioning doesnt tell the whole story either.
the Viking defence tends to give up the plays when they matter the most.
The Eagles make the stops when they matter the most
And as far as defences to there is only 1 stat that really matters. And thats points allowed.
1st downs allowed stats can be totally misleading. Points allowed, are not.
the Eagles were ranked 4th in points allowed with an average points allowed per game at 16.5
the Vikings were ranked 26th in points allowed with 24.7
Hmm what was that score again?
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The vikings were in the redzone as much as philly and failed to capitalize. You claim it was good defense, I claim it to be bad offense. You insist you're right because you simply must be.
Timing is important, but it isn't defining. There is no difference in failing to stop big plays and failing to make them. Vikings offense had just as many yards as philly's. vikings were in the red zone just as many times as philly. vikings offense was too inept to capitalize. Philly's wasn't.
Teams not knowing how to finish when they're in the redzone don't get that way because they have bad defenses.
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Mini D and DREDIOCK sitting in a tree...
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PS... screenplay being a second, third or fourth option... ROTFLMAO! Let me guess... you aren't a coach anymore?
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Originally posted by Mini D
PS... screenplay being a second, third or fourth option... ROTFLMAO! Let me guess... you aren't a coach anymore?
Oh and you dont think a screen is ever used as any option other then as the primary target? Now your making me laugh
Lemme guess, You play alot of Madden.
Havent coached in quite a few years as my son no longer plays.
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Resorting to words like "ever" now. What happened to "alot"? LOL!
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Originally posted by Mini D
The vikings were in the redzone as much as philly and failed to capitalize. You claim it was good defense, I claim it to be bad offense. You insist you're right because you simply must be.
Timing is important, but it isn't defining. There is no difference in failing to stop big plays and failing to make them. Vikings offense had just as many yards as philly's. vikings were in the red zone just as many times as philly. vikings offense was too inept to capitalize. Philly's wasn't.
Teams not knowing how to finish when they're in the redzone don't get that way because they have bad defenses.
Im insisting Im right because I am
Admittedly The Offence didnt play as well as it normally does.
but that poor play was primarily in the first quarter.
but phillys defence did play well. Well enough to stop them in the red zone.
Obviously well enough to win
No the Viking defence played poorly enough to loose. Giving up the plays when it mattered Just as they normally do.
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Originally posted by Mini D
Resorting to words like "ever" now. What happened to "alot"? LOL!
Your the one laughing at the thought of a screen pass being anything other then the first option.
Hence my "Ever" comment.
I stand by "alot"
Does "alot" mean always? Noooo
Doesnt even mean a majority of the time.
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Not trying to hijack here, but if you set up for a screen, and it isn't your primary... you're screwed. I mean what do you do with all those penetrating linemen? Throw the long post? hehe.
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Whatever dred...
Screen plays are set up as primaries. Quick slants can be second options or a decoy-look primary. Continuing to insist that screenplays are often... er... sometimes secondaries seemingly ignores everything the screenplay is about.