Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Pollock on January 17, 2005, 07:36:34 AM
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My wifes motherboard went poof. So time to upgrade for me.
I have read the many stickies posted by Bloom 25 and they help tremendously. The criteria for this pc revolves around aces high and that is it. My goal is no FR drops below 30 at 1280 X 1024 res. I would like to keep the budget under $250.00.
I have experience in overclocking with softswitching through the bios.
1st pc used Asus A7V133 with 850 Athlon Thunderbird, got it too 1.3GHZ smoothly with a big noisy fan. This one went to the wife over 2 years ago.
(I did not like the issues with the via chipset at the time)
2nd pc (my current I used an ASUS P4B266 with a P4 Northwood 1.6GHZ. This baby runs stable overclocked to 2.4GHZ with the stock heatsink and fan.
I can go either AMD or Intel at this point, but I would like this one to last me at least a year for playing Aces High.
Here are the parts that would carry over:
Supercase
400watt psu
2 Corsair Value Select 184 Pin 512MB DDR PC-3200
ATI Radeon 9700 pro 128meg
dvd burner
80 gig hd udma 7200 rpm or 60gig
Thanks in advance gents...
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Regardless of the specific parts you get, for gaming you want an athlon 64. Check out the other threads in here for some good options.
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if you trust tigerdirect rebates..
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=1087917&Sku=MBM-A8VD-3400
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Pollock
Check BZboyz.com for great mobo cpu combos.
Athlon 64 is the way to go.....along with ASUS mobo.
You get the fan with the above combos....get the AMD approved one...you can upgrade easily to a better fan.
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I think I narrowed it down to 2 systems here they are what do you guys think?
AMD:
http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishList.asp?position=HISTORY&submit=VIEW&ID=1244571
INTEL:
http://secure.newegg.com/app/WishList.asp?position=HISTORY&submit=VIEW&ID=1244571
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OOPS LINKS DONT WORK:
AMD:
Abit KV8 PRO K8T800 85.00 at newegg
AMD Athlon 64 2800+ 512kb l2 cache 128.00 at new egg.
INTEL:
ASUS P4P800-E DELUXE 75.00 at newegg
P4 2.4C GHZ 800mhz 137.00 at newegg
What's do you guys think is the better FR increase.
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Asus P4P800 motherboard
Itell P4 2.4 that you then Overclock to 3.0 @ 1000 FSB
I am running this set up and am getting great results in Ah2
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AMD 64 or FX CPU, the fastest u can afford.
any AGP/939 socket MB.
atleast AMD64 3800 or FX 53s
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Pollock
Using the ASUS K8V SE Deluxe mobo
Athlon64 3400
1 gig PC3200 (DDR 400) RAM
ATI Radeon9800 Pro
SoundBlaster Live 5.1
80gb Western Digital HD 8MB buffer (in IDE config)
Via K8T800 Chipset (with new Hyperion Drivers)
400 Watt power supply
Windows2K Pro OS
just built this system saturday.
Frame rates HOLDING at 85 with 1280X1024 32bit res.
FSAA at 6Xs' plus AGPX8
My monitors refresh rate at that res is limited to 85, can't get better then that...but at 85...who cares? ;)
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I reckommend the Athlon64 also. I own a desktop 3000+ and a laptop 3700+ and have nothing but good things to say about them.
AH2 plays quite nicely on a laptop with 3700+, R9700 and 1 Gig of ram. :p
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Hajo.
your system sounds like a good one but it is over my budget. It sounds like for the extra 150.00 dollars no overclocing is required.
Wombatt,
What memory, heatsink, and fan are you using?
Eagler,
Man oh man does that tigerdirect deal sound tempting, but the cost is too much.
I read the hardocp article to make the AMD suggestion. I need to see how safe the overclocking is for the P4.
This is good community keep the suggestions coming.
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I am using Mushkin LvL 2 3500 BH5 chips
Heatsink is a Thermalright XP-120 It has a 120mm fan on it.
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I wonder about that Ram. You was at an FSB of 333 with it before. Now that you'll be o'clocking starting at 400, what will that memory do?
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EBGB,
Are you inquiring about my ram? I bought it before Christmas from newegg. My current MOBO will only go to whatever pc2100 runs and no higher.
I can probably still return the ram to newegg, the price was right at $140.00. All of my overclocking experience has been through upping the clock frequency and core voltage. My current clock is set to 150mhz and core voltage is right at 6.25V, 1volt higher than stock for the cpu. This also wdone with stock cooling. The ram before that was 256X2 Crucial pc2100.
what would be a decent ram to overclock with?
According to newegg posts this ram does a decent job with moderate overclocking. My goal would be 3GHZ with a P4, or with AMD I believe the cpu runs slower so I am guessing around 2.4 GHZ to acheive a good gaming system.
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A word to the wise about overclocking memory or cpu.
Most do it because or can say that they are overclocking. Fact is that no matter how well one cools the component you shorten its' life simply by directing more voltage to it then it was intended to handle......sorta like trying to put 6 gallons of water into a 5 gallon bucket....only what is overclocked will handle it for a shorter term then desired.
Buy something you DON"T have to overclock. You'll do better in the long term.
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Most do it because or can say that they are overclocking. Fact is that no matter how well one cools the component you shorten its' life simply by directing more voltage to it then it was intended to handle......sorta like trying to put 6 gallons of water into a 5 gallon bucket....only what is overclocked will handle it for a shorter term then desired.
That would make sense Hajo. I have to say I have been very lucky (knocks wood) regarding overclocking.
I have been overclocking since 1997 if memory serves.
SYSTEM 1:
I did celeron 300A to 550mhz worked for me for about 1 year. I then sold it an upraded. The gal I sold it too quit using it in 2000.
SYSTEM 2:
AMD K62 No overclocking and a real POS! This sucker would BSOD, reset,lock up you name it. (before ACES HIGH) this went in the trash bin I thinked I stripped first.
SYSTEM 3:
I did a AMD TBIRD 850mhz to 1.3GHZ for a year and ran Aces High on it with lock up issues regard the VIA chipset. Bloom25 helped with that back in 2001. (thanks Bloom)
(system 3 went to my wife since 2002 with no problems execpt a noisy fan and then the chipset fan started buzzing. I forgot to mention at the start of my thread that I cracked the cpu wafer replacing the fan, which started my thread.
SYSTEM 4: Currently using. And my largest endevor.
Bought in July 2002 for 300 dollars from newegg.
P4 Northwood 1.6A with an Asus P4B266 MOBO. This puppy is rock stable @2.4GHZ!
with overclocking I feel as long as you use decent hardware and do not have lofty goals you should be ok. I tend to overclock because I am cheap, stingy, resourceful whatever. I try to squeeze my PCs as long as possible.
I still have not made my final decision on system 5 yet. But I am steering again towards the P4 Northwood option. If system 5 keeps me playing ACES HIGH 2 with good framerates until mid 2006 I will be satisfied.
System 6
Will be a ground floor build due to all the changes coming with home PCs, ie 64 bit processing, pci express, etc. Still ACES HIGH has never been as demanding as games like doom, half life, etc.
So I think I am on the logical path.
Oh, Did I mention that I plan to use system 5 as a future HTPC, when system 6 is built.
I think I may still need to research (as time permits) I look to the community for the continued input of their opinions and suggestions.
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Been running my system for two years now without any issue's
Even had It running of Phase Change cooling for awhile at 3.6 and 1200FSB with no worries.
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Mr.Black used Phase cooling too.
He also had a habit of random capitilization.
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That's nice.
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Originally posted by Estes
Mr.Black used Phase cooling too.
He also had a habit of random capitilization.
so true ...
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Just trying to pass on some sound advice on overclocking.
If you plan on keeping the system for a year or two at best, then overclock. You still have to remember tho that system instability and short lifespans of components is a definate consequence.
Built many systems....for myself and others. I advise all who wish me to build them a system that overclocking may sound cool, it's always best to use electronic equipment using specifications.
If RAM, CPU,and /or Video Card fail because of overclocking, there is no warranty. Get out your wallet...you've just wasted your money.
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Hajo is quite right, but I would add this.
If you are 'conservatively' overclocking, which simply means you are running the device within the parameters of the design, but faster than the part was shipped at, you will probably be ok. It is good to leave some room there as well.
Most manufacturers will spec the parts given certain parameters, such as voltage levels, and thermal characteristics. If you manage to keep the thermals below what they are expected to be, then there is a good chance you will get normal life from an overclocked product (keeping within the operating range the manafacturer designed for).
However, if you are 'extreme' with overclocking, pumping up the voltages and so on, then you pretty much will kill the device long before its normal life cycle is reached, regardless of the thermal conditions.
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I agree Skuzzy and Hajo take it on at your own peril. i will be happy with a 3GHZ overclock. some people view it as a hobby, challenge, whatever. But thats not my game. I just want to stretch my hobby budget as far as I can get it. I still have not made up my mind what in what combo to use. I want to avoid having a mr freeze tank or turbine fan that sounds like a dyson vacuum coming from my pc.
Any opinions on the AMD system I am considering. I havent had much luck searching the internet.
Abit KV8 PRO K8T800 85.00 at newegg
AMD Athlon 64 2800+ 512kb l2 cache 128.00 at new egg.
Oh,
And today my buddy is telling me to wait a month for the nforce 4 chipset to come down in price and that is the way I should go.
The goal again is $250.00 maximum budget, with FR above 30 in dicey situations.
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Pollock
Athlon 64 is a good choice for your budget.
I've run some performance Benchmarks against baseline PCs' that are Pentium4s, Athlon XPs' and even dual CPUs
The Athlon64 technology is great. Any Athlon64 would be my choice. Of course I would say that because that is what I chose.
Hypertransport is nice.
Also....can't go wrong with an ASUS board and it's jumper free settings.....used many ASUS boards and have never had a problem with them.
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Thanks Hajo.
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I am running at stock voltages.
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Wombatt,
You say stock voltage? is that 1.5V core.
On my current rig I have the retail fan and heatsink, and I never had a need to check the temp (northwoods run cool).
i wonder if I can get to the 3GHZ with a retail fan and heat sink.
I am still researching before making the purchase. I did some evaluations last nite on my current rig.
What do you benchmark your rig at in 3dmark 2001
My current settings in AH2 are:
1024 X 768
refresh @ 85 I think.
preferance slides 75% towards performance.
Frame rates maxed at 85.
In furious action down to 18 and choppy.
Averaged FR of 60.
These are ok with the exeption of the heavy action which really hurts the game play imo.
I ran a 3D mark 2001 this morning with default settings and scored 13363.
Settings I would like to play AH2:
1280 X 1024
4 X FSAA would be nice (but not critial)
preferance sliders set 75% towards quality
These were the settings I played AH1 in from 2002 to 2003 and I never dropped below 30 fps.
I estimate that if I can benchmark above 20000 in 3dmark 2001, would put me at the desired settings.
Hajo,
I am really curious to know youre 3dmark 2001 is. That system sounds like it would put you into the high 20s easily.
I have yet to locate a 3dmark 2001 for the amd combo I am looking at.
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Pollock
I'll run 3DMark 2001 and post it here with settings.
OK results
Default settings were 1024X768, I reset to 1280X1024
Default setting for FSAA was none, I reset to 4X
Default setting Frame Buffer double, I left it at double
Texture Format Compressed F-Buffer Depth 24
Rendering Pipeline: D3D Pure Hardware T/L
Result of the Benchmark: Score 5282
By the way.....I left Vertical Sync ON in Display Settings.
Most turn off Vert. Sync during Benchmarking.
I set everything on the Benchmark to setting I use in AH EXCEPT
I use 6XFSAA....still hold high 70s' to a max 86 FR in AH.
My monitors refresh rate is set to 85
Hope this gives you somewhat of an idea.
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Thanks...
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Just for comparisons, mine ran 24,251 in 2001SE at stock settings for 2001SE and the video card.
Intel P4, ATIX800XT
I'll have to rerun at the above settings you mention when I get home tonight.
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Benchmarks in above Post Pollock
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Skuzzy,
Could you post your rig specs, thanks...
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Skuzzy....dunno if 2001 sees athlon64...or takes into account.
Dunno about instructions.
I reset defaults to gameplay specs, not benchmarks specs.
This is not a good barometer of athlon64 performance.
Benchmarked against P4s', dual CPUs, and Athlon XPs using
PassMarks System Performance test.
P4s were 2.8, 2.6, XP was 2200...Athlon64 3400 performed very very well against them in baseline Bench.
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Originally posted by Hajo
Skuzzy....dunno if 2001 sees athlon64...or takes into account.
Dunno about instructions.
I reset defaults to gameplay specs, not benchmarks specs.
This is not a good barometer of athlon64 performance.
Benchmarked against P4s', dual CPUs, and Athlon XPs using
PassMarks System Performance test.
P4s were 2.8, 2.6, XP was 2200...Athlon64 3400 performed very very well against them in baseline Bench.
i ran 2001se defualt settings
got 20234 with below system.
6575 with your settings
whels
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I'll set my settings like yours Hajo and see what it yeilds. 2001SE uses the standard x86 instruction set as that is what was available, but it is generally what you find in most programs.
I think Aquamark is a better tool today, as it strikes a good balance in its scoring for the CPU and video card.
3DMark2003 was pretty dependent on the video card and 3DMark 2005 is even more so.
Strictly for the sake of comparisons, anything is good as long as everyone is using the same settings.
My home system
Intel P4 Northwood 3Ghz @ 3.4Ghz (FSB:227Mhz)
1GB of Crucial Ballistix ram
ATI X800XT video card
SB Audigy 2 ZS Platinum
Win XPPro w/SP2
and sundry other peripherals
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Skuzzy, while running the benchmark using default settings...I noticed the refresh rate was dropped to 60HZ by the benchmark.
That effectively limited my framerates.
I've got my refresh rate set to 85 which is max for my Sony monitor. Benchmark appears to put handcuffs on.
My System:
Athlon64 3400 @ 2.4ghz
ASUS KV8 SE Deluxe mobo
Radeon 9800 Pro 128 mb
1ghz PC3200 (DDR400) Ultra
80gb WD HD 8mb buffer running IDE not raid or Sata
Win2K Pro
SoundBlaster Live 5.1
and Hypertransport (no FSB)
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I set the vertical refresh rate to 'application preference'. 3Dmark has never enabled it, to my knowledge, as I was seeing framerates in the 400+ range while it ran.
DirectX resets the refresh rate, but you can use ATI's control panel to override that and use a refresh rate of your choice.
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Skuzzy
Thanks...I have the refresh rate set to 85 in ATI control Panel.
Seems that vid benchmarking over rides my setting.
At desktop my refresh rate is 91.1
In Aces High it's 91.1
As I'm making this post it's 91.1.
Go figure?
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Hajo, I got 19,721 using your settings in 2001SE.
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Great Score Skuzzy.....that vid card does the trick!
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Thanks for the data Scuzzy and Hajo.
From those figures it looks like 200 dollar upgrade may not get me to the desired settings I want to play in. I would probably be ok without fsaa at 4x. I still havent found the data on the AMD set up I am looking at.
Hajo,
The one thing that I hated in the past with AMD was VIA chipsets.
There were always issues. Since AMDs success have those issues gone away?
Those were the primary reasons I went to a P4 with intel chipset, and their proven stability. With that said If I went with intel again
It looks like I would HAVE to add extra cooling. This would place me around 275.00 total 25 over budget (not too bad).
The AMD set up may come in under 250.00 without extra cooling needed.
I am very close to making the decision I just need the AMD data.
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If you went with Intel, do not even consider a Prescott type of CPU. Stay with a Northwood (478 pin) and you will not have the thermal issues.
Northwood is faster, clock for clock, than the Prescott anyways and you would not be stuck with using slower DDR2 ram as well, which also runs much hotter than DDR1 ram.
Just FYI.
Yep Hajo, it was an expensive card, but I figure it will last a few years without much problem. I usually do not go with these high end cards, but I knew this would be my last computer for serveral years, as Intel has lost its way.
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Pollock:
Some mobos come with the NForce chipset now. I know the SocketA Biostar board does. The only issue I've had with any Via chipset is with the SB Audigy2ZS Soundcard.......that was with the Via KT333 chipset. Now running the K8T800 set. One thing good I like about Via is that they constantly update their drivers. The new batch are called Hyperion. As soon as I installed the mobo disc, I went to Viaarena.com and d'loaded and installed the newest group of 4 in 1s'
You can check various mobo combos with Athlon64s and I'm sure you'll find some with NForce chipsets.
Always purchase what you feel comfortable with. The only thing Iwould suggest is look at impartial reviews. Such as in Computer Gaming Magazine, Toms Hardware etc. Get an idea of performance from their Benchmarks and Tests. You'll also notice that AMD is generally speaking cheaper in comparison, and in Game Gauge testing the Athlon has since the XP CPU, generally come out on top in Gaming performance.
I Benchmarked this using PassMarks Performance Test. It was compared to two Pent 4s that both ran at 2.66 and 2.8 clock speeds. The Athlon64 3400 (runs at 2.4) beat both'
I used to use Pents.....but I've found for bang for the buck...I get better performance with the AMD.
Whatever you chose I'm sure will suit you. But again...feel comfortable with something before you purchase it. Look for the specs. I think you'll find baseline comparisons on the WEB. Check them out!
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Hajo it doesn't matter if you shorten the lifespan of your hardware by overclocking it. Nobody will ever use modern hardware such as CPU or a mobo for more than 3 years anyway. After that it's just waste.
I prefer to take maximum advantage of it NOW that it's still worth anything.
I've been overclocking since 1998 and I never managed to break even one piece of hardware by means of clocking it. One CPU I burned when I tightened the waterblock (wondering why the block didn't seem to remain tightly seated) and the plastic cpu socket gave up due to manufactoring error. Result was no cooling on Athlon and a smoke effect. But even this was because of a faulty socket, not overclocking.
If your hardware burns out on overclocking, how can they tell whether you ran it on stock or oc settings? That's right, they can't. Well, unless you start soldering things and stuff. ;)
Modern hardware, including mobo bioses, are built from factory with oc in mind. No-jumper automatic oc is a standard feature in every single quality motherboard today.
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Siaf...you're doing what suits you.
But don't generalize people having computers 3 years or less.
I think you'll find that normal, not gaming people hold on to theres' quite a bit longer then 3 years.
And...I think there are more "normal" PC users out there then us gamers.
My feelings on overclocking are mine. I just wished to inform those that do, or are thinking about it of the possible consequences. Been building computers for quite awhile, and I've heard just as many horror stories about overclocking as I have heard of success.
Friend of mine tried overclocking (one story) PC wouldn't run longer then ten minutes. Brought it to me to repair. I never saw plastic warp and stick like that before LOL.
Skuzzy knows much more then I do about it....I'd take his advice.
But if overclocking "flips your trigger" Flip away!:)
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not gaming people hold on to theres' quite a bit longer then 3 years.
Not gaming people do well with a quarter of the computing power of a modern computer. You don't need 1Ghz for Word or Excel. Hence they don't overclock.
Neeext..
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Siaf, you do make a few generalizations which do not hold true for most people. I keep my computers 5 years.
You water cool, which puts you in a small percentage of computer owners. I am not saying its bad, just noting your perspective is probably not what most people's is.
I have seen many new people burn up thier computer trying to overclock it. It is not something to be approached with wild abandon and takes quite a bit of planning to make sure you do not damage something, or negate the life of the product.
It is all about attention to detail.
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I get 10641 in 3dmark2001SE using hajo's settings and all the vid driver settings turned to highest quality. I get only 12769 at defaults, so that pretty much defines "cpu limited" I think.
6800GT
Athlon XP 2000+
I'll re-run it hopefully this weekend after I rebuild my system with my just-arrived athlon 64 parts. FWIW, I plan on overclocking by approx 10% (200 FSB to approx 220 FSB) and from all accounts, this should be trivial using the parts I got. No over-volting necessary at all. Like Skuzzy said, successful overclocking is all about the details. Planning ahead and getting the right parts is how it all starts, and hopefully 4 months of research was enough :) I did skip on the currently very popular TCCD chip memory in favor of crucial ballistix, but since I'm not going for extreme overclocking I should get the results I'm aiming at. If I'm careful, I think 250 fsb should be easily attainable with the parts I've purchased but I don't know if I'll push it that hard.
The best bet for me is to find out how fast the memory will go by reducing the cpu multiplier and slowly increasing the FSB, then backing everything off and creep the cpu multiplier back up to find out how fast the cpu wants to go at stock voltages, then back everything off from the max settings to try to keep system reliability up. Anywhere above 2.2 ghz and 220 fsb on the memory is "gravy" as far as I'm concerned because that would be a 10% overclock across the board and the price difference to buy that speed instead of what I bought is around $200.
My 6800GT also runs quite happily at 6800 Ultra speeds but at around $150 lower price, but I'm not running it that fast in hopes of having it last longer.
Anyhow, get the right parts and don't be greedy, and an overclocked system can be just as reliable as a system running at stock speeds. It might even be more reliable if you started with high quality "overclocking quality" parts instead of super cheap bits.
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Without wanting to be disrespecting, Skuzzy, do you really use the same hardware for 5 years for (and I stress) gaming use?
I'd never o/c my office computer. Not even though I use a calculus intensive program for work that uses 100% CPU time all the time.
But for gaming I find hardware has a really short lifespan, too short for my taste. Overclocking can stretch that a bit, either by expanding the usefulness of your expensive hardware or making a cheap purchase playable for some period of time.
Even I don't watercool any longer, didn't bother to purchase a new block for the A64+mess with the tubes. So far the A64 has satisfyed my needs fully with standard aircooling (hey, just bumped the fsb a notch ;) )
However in one thing I fully agree with Skuzzy. You should never EVER attempt to overclock if:
a) You don't know 100% sure what you're doing
b) You're ready to risk having damage to your hardware by mistake.
Only if you meet those two conditions should you play with overclocks. But hey, it's fun when it's done right! :aok
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Not disrespectful at all. Yes, I only replace my system once every 5 years. When I do, I usually get the top end gear available and then push it for all its worth.
I might upgrade a video card during that time, but I will not be able to this time around as the chances of getting a faster AGP card than the X800XT is pretty slim, with AGP going away.
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Next thing you know we'll be sticking old radiators inside our PCs and Turbo supercharging the damned things.
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Originally posted by Pollock
Wombatt,
You say stock voltage? is that 1.5V core.
On my current rig I have the retail fan and heatsink, and I never had a need to check the temp (northwoods run cool).
i wonder if I can get to the 3GHZ with a retail fan and heat sink.
I am still researching before making the purchase. I did some evaluations last nite on my current rig.
What do you benchmark your rig at in 3dmark 2001
My current settings in AH2 are:
1024 X 768
refresh @ 85 I think.
preferance slides 75% towards performance.
Frame rates maxed at 85.
In furious action down to 18 and choppy.
Averaged FR of 60.
These are ok with the exeption of the heavy action which really hurts the game play imo.
I ran a 3D mark 2001 this morning with default settings and scored 13363.
Settings I would like to play AH2:
1280 X 1024
4 X FSAA would be nice (but not critial)
preferance sliders set 75% towards quality
These were the settings I played AH1 in from 2002 to 2003 and I never dropped below 30 fps.
I estimate that if I can benchmark above 20000 in 3dmark 2001, would put me at the desired settings.
Hajo,
I am really curious to know youre 3dmark 2001 is. That system sounds like it would put you into the high 20s easily.
I have yet to locate a 3dmark 2001 for the amd combo I am looking at.
Yeppers stock V-core but I do kick up the ram voltage just a tick.
I have not run any Bench marks in awhile just know that it works LOL.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/481_1106295832_cpuz001.jpg)
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Believe it or not, I modified an old radiator for passive watercooling use. :)
Been there, done that.
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The above is on air cooling.
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Update:
New computer is almost all the way set up. I had to do some manual registry editing because I got most of my old software installation back by recovering from a backup... Anyhow, with everything at stock speeds:
Athlon 64 3200+
1 gig crucial ballistix pc3200
6800GT at 400/1100
3dmark2001SE - 21574
32mark2001SE with Hajo's settings - 16754
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a quick update.
No decision has been made yet. I am still researching to stretch the dollar as far as I can go.
According to a friend of mine, this is the best bang for the buck chip out there right now.
http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.asp?description=19-103-499&depa=0
He says it has the same qualities of the P4 1.6 northwood that I have now.
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Pollock"
Did some shopping at BZBOYZ.com.
Something to think about
Abit KV8 mobo
Athlon64 3000
Via chipset K8T800 (which I am using)
heat sync, fan and 256 ram PC3200 (DDR400)
270.86$ now onsale at BzBoyz .com
Check out their combos, can select by brand of mobo.
I like the ASUS and Abits.....both can be had with the NF chipset.
By the way...I'd upgrade to the next fan...AMD approved.
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I will check it out Hajo thanks.
I saw new egg also has some deals on re-furbed motherboards.
I was hesitant at buying re-furbs but my current motherboard asus p4b266 is a re-furb, and it is great. The nice thing is you save average 60 dollars, this could be used for heat sink and fan.
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Also check out the 90mn AMD64 3200, I've seen posts from guys who have clocked ot to 3500 speeds.
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Abit KV8 - Nooooo.
The 939pin A64 is by far the better choice. Your original cpu choice will permit some upgrade path, however small as AMD transitions to dual core in the near future. The 754pin is single channel memory, not dual like the 939.
The KV8 is a 754pin and therefore ill advised.
Marry this CPU to a PCIXpress mainboard, and you're good to go.
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ebgb he is under budget constraints as was I.
That is why I got the 3400 754.....dint wanna spend anymore.
By the way...the 3400 sposed to run at 2.1.....get the AMD original from factory not OEM....it clocks at 2.4 no oc'ing
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My 3200 winchester A64 is running at 2300mhz right now, and so far seems stable. The MSI boards don't seem to report voltages and temperatures correctly but I had to bump up the cpu and memory voltages in bios to get them up to spec'd numbers. Without a voltmeter though, it's tough to tell if I merely increased it to spec'd value or bumped it above spec. But at the default settings, all the voltages were reported by various system utilities as being low.
Anyhow, it's cranking though some stress tests right now.
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Eagl...good luck. I like mine very much. Frame rates can't get any higher then they are on my machine. Smooth all the way through gameplay.
I am not exagerating when I say the increase in performance over my AthlonXP 2400 is 30 to 40% greater.
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it is amazing how i can justify changing my budget. I hav made the decision to to raise the budget to 300 dollars. this is my birthday present to ME :)
That said, I think i can go with:
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 512K 90nm (939) (Retail Box-w-Fan)
for $189.00 local BM.
or
AMD Athlon 64 3000+ 1.8GHz, 512KB L2 Cache 939-Pin 64-bit
oem for around $155.00
I wonder if I should go with the retail box or should I buy the oem and get a seperate fan and heatsink.
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Go with the OEM and get a good heatsink and fan.
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And might I suggest this heat sink.
I have one and use a 120mm fan and It works great.
Click on XP120
http://www.thermalright.com/product_default.htm
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I have finally made the purchase.
I got the AMD 64 3000 939 pin and Asus A8V deluxe mobo. I bought locally at monarch computer out the door for 298.00
The price went down on the chip so i jumped on it. Now I need to get a case and start building.
btw for free monarch hooks up the cpu, sink, and fan. They also load the latest bios and test the board. Also got a copy of some game called far cry and some other stuff for free.
I will post results ASAP. Thanks to everyone who expressed their opinions and recommendations, it really helped me.
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Monarchs not bad used them a few times but always thought their prices a little high. Only work 30 mins from them so if I need something no-one else locally has I use them
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Originally posted by Pollock
I have finally made the purchase.
I got the AMD 64 3000 939 pin and Asus A8V deluxe mobo. I bought locally at monarch computer out the door for 298.00
The price went down on the chip so i jumped on it. Now I need to get a case and start building.
btw for free monarch hooks up the cpu, sink, and fan. They also load the latest bios and test the board. Also got a copy of some game called far cry and some other stuff for free.
I will post results ASAP. Thanks to everyone who expressed their opinions and recommendations, it really helped me.
You may want to read the viaarena forums to help you setup up your A8V. I'll just shorten some of the things for you.
1. Flash your bios to 1009
2. If you have a sata drive as your boot drive - use the via sata connecters and make sure you have the sata drivers on a floppy when you load windows the first time
3. If you use the 9800pro ati card you will be limited to 4x agp. This will hopefully be fixed in the near future -- but is really a minimal loss. The via agp driver at 8x is problematic. I have heard that the default microsoft xp sp2 driver is better but with lower performance.
4. Good practice to disable unnessary onboard devices on first windows load and install each after windows is all updated
The board is still a very good one but do go to the forums and read up on it to save you a lot of headaches on installation.
Acetnt
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just finished installing an Asus A8V with a amd64 3400 939pin, booting from two 80gb sata raid 0
had zero trouble and my ati 9800 pro is running in apg 8x mode - np
(http://www.pogbird.com/ebay/8x.jpg)
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My 'old' 980PRO ran at 8x AGP without a prob on my A8V also.
So many people are getting AMD64s - wonder how long before we can convince HTC to produce a 64 bit version of AH :)
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Originally posted by Eagler
just finished installing an Asus A8V with a amd64 3400 939pin, booting from two 80gb sata raid 0
had zero trouble and my ati 9800 pro is running in apg 8x mode - np
(http://www.pogbird.com/ebay/8x.jpg)
Am happy to hear this. There are many who have had severe problems in getting this to happen. Since I have the same setup and would like to have it run the same way I have a couple of questions :
1. What version of via 4in1 drivers are you using?
2. Did you use the via agp driver?
3. What bios version of the A8V are you running
Have you tried to benchmark your system. I used both Aquamark and 3Dmark05. On my first install with the machine at 8X I had terrible scores and the machine was unstable during AH2. On resetting the agp to 4x (as recommended on the forums) I was able to get double the score. Could you please post your current driver setup and these scores. It will really help me determine if an improvement can be obtained on my rig
Acetnt
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Hi Ace WB.
1) Use the latest VIA hyperions.
2) You MUST use the AGP driver.
3) Currently running beta 1010 BIOS (worked fine on all tho)
Never did have probs runnig my 9800PRO on the A8V.
Make sure you turn fastwrites OFF in the BIOS.
Tip for A8V owners - In the BIOS memory timings on the 2T Command Rate option, select DISABLED.
This sets your mem to run with a 1T speed instead of 2T
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Originally posted by Kev367th
Hi Ace WB.
1) Use the latest VIA hyperions.
2) You MUST use the AGP driver.
3) Currently running beta 1010 BIOS (worked fine on all tho)
Never did have probs runnig my 9800PRO on the A8V.
Make sure you turn fastwrites OFF in the BIOS.
Tip for A8V owners - In the BIOS memory timings on the 2T Command Rate option, select DISABLED.
This sets your mem to run with a 1T speed instead of 2T
1) same
2) same
3) 1008 BIOS
Fastwrites On in bios - is this bad?
1T better than 2T?
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New cards do not use fastwrites, in fact it can cause instabilities.
1T is a lot faster - your mem bandwith with 2T is around 4000+, with 1T it is 5000+
It's just back to front in the BIOS, you have to select disable to get 1T.
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I wanted to follow up on my post.
I had a bad experience with either the asus board or the cpu. According to Monarch they load the latest bios and fully test the motherboard. Well I installed everthing taking my time it took about 2 hours to put together. The pc would not boot up (no beeps black screen). I knew i had good memory and a vid card but i removed then to see if she would boot up. Again nothing.
Before I pulled the cpu to check I called asus tech support as I never have removed a new style fan and heatsink from the board.
The heatsink was locked tight so I took asus's advice and started to rock the heatsink. This was a huge mistake because the retail heatsink paste is lets just say more like an epoxy.
It finally broke free but it also took the cpu up with it pulling it right from the socket. This of course hosed the chip bending the legs. I explained this to monarch and after some convincing they agreed to exchange everything out.
Upon advice from a close friend I changed motherboards to the msi k8n neo2 platinum.
I have noticed an increase in framerates but they are not that huge of a difference over my old P4 2.4g system.
I am currently researching the proper bios settings so far it has been a hard read. I will work on the set up and pursue overclocking. I should have an update in a few days.
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It's always a good idea to use an aftermarket heatsink and thermal paste.
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Originally posted by Pollock
Thanks for the data Scuzzy and Hajo.
From those figures it looks like 200 dollar upgrade may not get me to the desired settings I want to play in. I would probably be ok without fsaa at 4x. I still havent found the data on the AMD set up I am looking at.
Hajo,
The one thing that I hated in the past with AMD was VIA chipsets.
There were always issues. Since AMDs success have those issues gone away?
Those were the primary reasons I went to a P4 with intel chipset, and their proven stability. With that said If I went with intel again
It looks like I would HAVE to add extra cooling. This would place me around 275.00 total 25 over budget (not too bad).
The AMD set up may come in under 250.00 without extra cooling needed.
I am very close to making the decision I just need the AMD data.
I agree that the 939 socket is the future but you can get a great deal on the DFI lanparty 754 board with an AMD 3200+ or similiar. Mine was $239 a month ago. It uses the nvidia chipset and has been just great.