Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Ouch on April 04, 2000, 01:34:00 PM
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<rant mode on>
Ok guys, I keep seeing all the posts about 'They didn't really use HO's during the war, they were too dangerous.'
Sorry, that's just BS.
In the Pacific, that was the recommended way to deal with Zero's. Scissor into a headon.
Joe Bauer (CO VMF???, Guadelcannal) said 'Never refuse a Head on run on a Zeke." They were considered gifts. Hell, the Thach weave was used to set up an opponent for a headon run (I've got a copy of the original paper on it with diagrams and everything).
I realize that European aircraft were more solid, and had better firepower than the zeke, but even so, most of the Biographies of WWII pilots that I've read (and it's a lot of them) the pilots talk about using headon runs against other fighters.
It all boils down to this, If you are at a disadvantage, your only choice was to either dive away (if you could) or turn into your opponent for a headon. He either accepted the headon run and closed, or he sacrificed his initial advantage.
Now for my own preference, I'll only take the HO when my opponent is in a position of advantage (i.e. higher alt, better E). If he choses at that point to continue his run into my guns, so be it. What else am I suppose to do, keep evading, losing more and more E until he toasts me?
<rant off>
<ahhhhhh> Glad to finally get that one off my chest.
Ouch out
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Originally posted by Ouch:
Now for my own preference, I'll only take the HO when my opponent is in a position of advantage (i.e. higher alt, better E). If he choses at that point to continue his run into my guns, so be it. What else am I suppose to do, keep evading, losing more and more E until he toasts me?
Ouch out
Ditto that for me, however, every now and then, I'll find a field full of low spits, doing HO's on everyone they run across. I then feel compelled to drive a spit to the scene, and HO everyone in my path. Fire with fire. (Or is that Barbie-fire with Barbie-fire?) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
=CO=II/JG2~Richthofen~
Communications Officer
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
"Experience is a hard teacher because she
gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-04-2000).]
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I am here to have fun.....I'll engage as the situation dictates. If I have to HO I will.
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Skernsk
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I found myself in a 5 v 1 last night and gladly HO'ed anyone within range, and got a few. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
eskimo
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I HO. Usually get the sharp end of the stick, but I still try. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) When I can take them down with me I am happy. The two or three I survived I jumped out of my seat and banged my knees on desk.
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daddog C.O.
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
Where men become friends and friends become brothers.
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LOL daddog, that funny! I can recall not too long ago having the gun hits volumn cranked up high on my woofers. Sitting on auto-pilot kicked back in my chair, sipping a rare glass of wine, peace, serinity, nothing but the moan of the big radial turning...then PING PING BANG! Jumped right out of my seat, spilled the wine over the keyboard, rolled the chair over the dogs tail, he jumps and yelps, I'm cursing cause I have a mess...didn't even get the name of the enemy to tell him what he'd caused. My wife laughed, I laughed, and I've since turned down the gun hits sound on AH. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Ripsnort(-rip1-)
=CO=II/JG2~Richthofen~
Communications Officer
Aces High Training Corps
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
(http://Ripsnort60.tripod.com/ripsnort.jpg)
"Experience is a hard teacher because she
gives the test first, the lesson afterwards"
[This message has been edited by Ripsnort (edited 04-04-2000).]
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Only one foolproof method that I'd found to avoid HO's comepletly. While it's rather hard if you simply must avoid them at all cost try this. Log off, go read a book.
Meantime, I'm up HOing anyone anytime I feel like it & haveing fun (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(Just kidding guys, Honest!)
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Maj Ghosth
XO 332nd Flying Mongrels
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I personally think that there is nothing wrong with HO. As said before on other discussion about HOs, it takes 2 to HO. So if you took your chances and died, don't whine later on.
Problem with people attacking HO from above is that they often don't pay attention to what plane below does. They see bogey below and simply dive. That I don't understand. Take your time, find general heading of the target, circle to his 6 or wait until he turns his 6 to you and then dive. Simple as that!
Now, why people complain about Spitfire being a HO king. I think problem here is that Spitfire currently more manuevarable then any other plane and thus often can turn 180 degrees to face attacking plane if you press your attack from far distance on his 6. Agian, you can easily avaid HO in this situation - simply break of attack, extend and try again or go high for a wingover; after a hard 180 degrees break turn, no Spitfire or any other plane would be able to follow the attacker.
mx22
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Ouch
I have been vainly searching for my quote about a whole squadron of spits turning to HO a german unit...By that time in the war the Allied units where alot more aggressive than the Germans and sought almost any chance to engage..
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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Pongo - i've read mutliple accounts of polish spitfire squadrons attecking LW head on.
If you want exact quotes - let me know. I don't have time to look for them know, but i remember reading them.
Remember that gunnery of average pilot in WWII was far lower then ours. So guns on the plane didn't matter nearly as much as the guy pulling the trigger.
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Bartlomiej Rajewski
aka. Wing Commander fd-ski
Northolt Wing
1st Polish Fighter Wing
303 (Polish) Squadron "Kosciuszko" RAF
308 (Polish) Squadron "City of Cracow" RAF
315 (Polish) Squadron "City of Deblin" RAF
Turning 109s and 190s into scrap metal since 1998
If nothing makes you happier then burning 109 - come and join us - we're looking for few good men
Northolt Wing Headquarters (http://www.raf303.org/northolt/)
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LOL Ripsnort! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
fd-ski,
You move over from Warbirds or you doing both sims?
It is nice to see friendly faces here and there. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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daddog C.O.
332nd Flying Mongrels (http://www.ropescourse.org/flying.htm)
Where men become friends and friends become brothers.
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Ski
This was canadians but it was described as an SOP...I dont need a quote but thanks for the verification that this was not uncommon. The anti HOers seem to be keeping there heads down right know.
I some times get a bit steamed when a guy takes an advantagous position and wastes it on an ho...but when I have some one in a very bad position, I expect him to try it...
.
"With my last breath I grapple with thee"
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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Last night, I (stupidly) attempted to avoid a HO in my NIKI against a Spit, we were co-alt, and I split-s'd left, he waited a sec for me to establish a heading then dived onto my 6, I was unable to out-run or out-turn him, he was awarded the kill.
I then typed on general channel "that was the last time I avoided the HO" from now on, I am simply not going to bend over and present my arse to someone.
While we are on the subject, prior to the B-17 getting nose guns the Germans would attack them HO all the time.
Speaking of BUFFs, why do people shoot em down AFTER they have dropped thier payload?
I never do, the reason being why give him a quick trip back to his base to rearm? Make him RTB in his BUFF, takes him outta the fight longer, givin your country time to save whatever it was he was bombing.
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•CyberPilots have BIGGER Joysticks•
««You can kill me, Can't ya?»» (http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/killsomeone.ra)
««The Great Milenko»» (http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/milenko.ra)
««A machine that goes PING!»» (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/images/mp-ping.ra)
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MILENKO Homepage (http://pages.hotbot.com/games/davekirk/milenko.html)
<===THE ASSASSINS===>Webpage (http://members.xoom.com/rowgue/assassins.html)
milnko@warbirds.org
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Man! I love HOs!
Reasons:
1) I can finally get sights on target
2) I have a 35% chance of causing damage or shooting down an enemy.
3) Saves me the disgrace of getting outflown and then shot down. With a HO, I just get shot down!
In fact, I'm thinking of changing my handle to "HOHO!" (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Swager
-XO- II/JG2~Richthofen~
"Damn.....I can't believe I missed that shot!!!"
(http://saintaw.tripod.com/swager.gif)
JG2 "Richthofen" (http://www.busprod.com/weazel2/)
[This message has been edited by Swager (edited 04-04-2000).]
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I don't know if anybody has thought about it like this, but here's how I look at the HO issue. It's realy simple and I can explain it in 2 words.
HEADON = MERGE !!!!!
Most fights are going to have at least 1 if not more. If you see the bandit and he doesn't see you you can merge with out a HO, but that's a dead 6 merge (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) But if both pilots see each other chances are a HO of some sort will result.
Wether or not you shoot is up to you, most of the time I'll try to use it to get a better position on my advasary with a lead turn or what not, but that's still a hi offset angle HO merge in my book (because I could still make a front aspect snap shot)
anybody see this like me or am I completely insane? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)~
Udie
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i have yet to head on completely, I zoom out of their gunsight if I cant beat them to the turn and nail em before they bring their guns to bear on me.
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The only thing I see that will cut down on HO,s is for the magic, spit, HO guns to be fixed.
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first off, Udie, yes i see it your way, i have even said it, but am told that HO's is for dweebs, look out dweeb alart, here i come.
now easymo, if you are saying the spit has a bug with its guns, and that they are to powerful and the spit always wins a HO, geuss again. i fly the spit most of the time because it is the only plane i can fly, but i change to othere planes because im looking for some fire power, but it seems the reason i loose 49 out of 50 HO's is not because i miss, i do hit and rip other plane up, but because of the lag, i am dead, buired, reborn, and up again before the other guys knows ive been hit. i see there planes falling apart, but they get the credit for the kill. now i wish i did not send the money to have a fast system. what ever.
blue skies all
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wolf. net time u have a 6 shot on a turning plane. Aim at the second line of the icon. fire at 300yrds, with cannon only. next time use mg only. They seem to have the same trajectory.
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Originally posted by milnko:
Speaking of BUFFs, why do people shoot em down AFTER they have dropped thier payload?
Do you have a magical way to determine whether they have spent all their bombs or not? Have you seen those buffs passing over 4 or 5 enemy bases and dropping only one bomb over each one? If you let the buff to live, you can find yourself with several towerless fields.
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As the standard bearer of the anti-HO club, let me re-state the problem I have with the HO as used now in AH:
I am against using the HO when entering a co-alt merge fight. Once the merge has been made, then all bets are off, go for the HO as neccessary. But it's the people who are co-alt and go for the HO shot on the merge that bother me.
Any other use of the HO is fine with me. My reason for posting the "Just say NO to the HO" thread was to get people to make it alive to the merge, where they will then hopefully try to use their ACM skills to get a killing shot on their enemy.
Some may argue that in war you go for the killing shot the first opportunity you get, whether it is a HO shot or a dead-six shot. Fine, I respect your decision, but I don't agree with it. My most thrilling fights have been with guys who hold their fire as we pass each other at the merge and start our battle of ACM to gain the advantage.
Just one dweeb's opinion.
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banana
308 (Polish) Squadron RAF "City of Cracow"
"On the whole, it is better to deserve honors and not have them than to have them and not deserve them"
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Easymo-- correction, they do NOT have the same trajectory. at 300 yds it's still pretty flat and harder to tell tho. what DOES have the same trajectory is the tracers. at 400 -600 yds the tracers will fall short on both rounds. less distance between the two in cannon- more in MG.
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sorrow. try that same test in any other cannon armed plane.