Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: F4UDOA on January 18, 2005, 03:22:13 PM
-
An amazing artical on the Bendix Trophy races. This race was internal fuel only. Check the average cruise speeds for the P-51, over 400MPH up to 470MPH in 1949!!!
“The Quest for Speed
Bendix Air Races 1931 to 1949"
From Air Trails, September 1950
Wedell-Wllliams Racer 1932, 1933, 1934 Winner
The full race results are posted at the bottom of this web page.
First Place winners of Bendix Trophy Race Pilot Aircraft Average MPH Time Prize Money
1931—LOS ANGELES TO CLEVELAND
Maj. James. H. Doolittle Laird Super Solution 223.058 9:10:21 $7,500
1935—NEW YORK TO LOS ANGELES
Ben 0. Howard Howard Racer 238.704 8:33:16.3 $4,500
1939—LOS ANGELES TO CLEVELAND
Frank W. Fuller, Jr. Seversky 282.098 7:14:19.02 $9,000
1946—LOS ANGELES TO CLEVELAND
Paul Mantz P-51 435.501 4:43:14 $10,000
1949—ROSAMOND DRY LAKE, CALIF., TO CLEVELAND
Joe C. DeBona F-51 470.136 4:16:17.5 $10,000
Although civilians are now barred from this great race, the exploits of famous flyers live on. (written in 1950)
Each year in early September the aviation world has been thrilled by the roar of planes competing in the Bendix Trophy Race. This year the roar will be only a memory. The National Air Races at Cleveland themselves, of which the Bendix “Transcontinental Speed Dash” was always an exciting part, have been postponed from Labor Day to Armed Forces Day next May.
The Bendix as we have known it since its start nineteen years ago will not be there. Military jet planes alone, if current plans for inclusion of the “J” or jet division are carried out, will vie for the title of fastest-cross-country. Propeller-driven craft and their civilian pilots, it is now realized, flew their last race in 1949.
So, as we close our books on another colorful episode in the on-moving drama of flight, we see in retrospect, a story of great flyers and great airplanes which have characterized the Bendix classic through the years.
Proponents of cross-country air racing have long claimed for it the distinction of being the most practical of all the forms of the high-speed game. Only in these long-range grinds, they contend, do you encounter flying conditions comparable to what an airplane in everyday service must face. Such a contest is a basic problem of getting from one point of the country to another in the shortest possible time, which is, after all, the fundamental purpose of the airplane. Furthermore, it is the supreme test of the pilot’s skill in preflight planning and preparation and in-flight navigation. It was with these thoughts in mind that the late Vincent Bendix, manufacturer of aviation accessories, created the great race which bears his name.
For many years before the Bendix was established, civilian air racing had centered in the cross-country type of event. These were generally worked out on a handicap basis, taking into account the speed, power and range of the competing planes. But with the coming of the Bendix, these lesser races passed from the picture. For the Bendix was an all-out race for speed. No limitations were placed on the design or power of the airplanes, nor on the route which a pilot might choose to follow to accomplish his mission, As a consequence, this big race has always attracted the nation’s most colorful flyers and the fastest airplanes.
James H. Doolittle, who has left his imprint on so many of aviation’s annals, inaugurated the Bendix back in 1931 by flying from Los Angeles to Cleveland in 9 hours, 10 minutes and 21 seconds to win at an average speed of 223.058 miles per hour. This was shortly after Doolittle had retired from the Army Air Corps with the rank of major. While in the Air Corps he had established himself as the Army’s top-ranking speed pilot. Naturally that reputation followed him into civilian life, and he lost no time in proving his right to it.
Jimmie flew the only specially built racing plane entered in that first Bendix race. It was a small airplane by today’s standards, a bi-plane of just 21-foot span and 1,580 pounds’ weight. This was the Laird Super Solution. It was powered by the air-cooled Pratt & Whitney Wasp Jr. engine of 510 horsepower. Actually, this racer was a refined version of the Laird Solution which won the first Thompson Trophy Race the year before.
Doolittle made refueling stops at Albuquerque and Kansas City. At Cleveland he refueled again and went on to Newark to break the transcontinental speed record at 11 hours, 16 minutes and 10 seconds. For winning the race he collected a purse of $5,000 plus an additional $2,500 for the cross-country record.
Of the eight planes starting in this race, six finished within the established time limit. Aside from the winning Laird, all of the finishing planes were commercial model Lockheed Orions and Altairs. Harold Johnson made the best time of this group, coming in one hour and four minutes behind Doolittle.
Jimmy Doolittle
1931 Doug Davis
1934 Ben Howard
1935 Louise Thaden
1936
Frank Fuller Jr.
1937 & 1939 Jacquiline Cochran
1938 Paul Mantz
1946-47-48 Joe De Bona
1949
The Bendix has on occasion brought unusual distinction to the designer and builder of a racing airplane as well as to its pilot. This was particularly true in the case of James R. Wedell. Although this designer-pilot who built his own racing planes in a small hangar at Patterson, Louisiana, never won the big race himself, his airplanes figured prominently in it for a number of years. For instance, the three racers which he built for the 1932 races, each in turn won the Bendix. In fact, in that ‘32 event they finished in one-two-three order with James Haizlip, Wedell and Roscoe Turner capturing those respective positions.
Turner copped the trophy in ‘33 and Doug Davis flew Wedell’s own “Miss Patterson” to victory in ‘34. Wedell planes also took second money in both of these latter races and were the only entries to finish within the allotted time.
This transcontinental dash has not always been a Los Angeles to Cleveland affair, for on two occasions the National Air Races were terminated at the West Coast metropolis. That was in 1933 and again in 1936. In these years New York served as the starting point and the race was thus fully transcontinental in nature. Incidentally, this east to west crossing of the nation was considered much more difficult in those days because of prevailing head winds.
Up-and-coming Roscoe Turner scored the first major victory of his long and colorful career in air racing when he won that ‘33 event. His time of 11 hours and 30 minutes was an east-west record and evidence of the grueling type of flying found in the Bendix of that time. It was reliable Jimmy Wedell who placed second to Roscoe. This was the race in which Russell Boardman lost his life when his big Gee Bee racer crashed on take-off after refueling at Indianapolis.
Seversky (civilian race version of the P-35) 1937-38-39 Winner
The other east to west race, that of 1936, was strictly a “ladies’ day” affair and the slowest of all the Bendix contests. Louise Thaden with Blanche Noyes as her co-pilot flew a stock model Beechcraft biplane into the winner’s circle in less than 5 minutes under 15 hours. Laura Ingalls followed with a Lockheed Orion and Amelia Earhart took fifth position with her Lockheed Electra. Strangely enough, only commercial planes finished this race, with all of the special racers being forced out along the route. Even a big Douglas DC-2 finished in the money.
Of course that 1936 race was not the only Bendix in which the ladies have starred. Amelia Earhart was the first of her sex to participate, taking fifth position with a Lockheed Vega in 1935. Then the famous Jacqueline Cochran entered the picture with a third place in 1937. Jackie’s big year, however, came in 1938 when she won the contest under adverse weather conditions and against red-hot competition. She flew a civilian equivalent of the Seversky P-35. Again in the postwar races of 1946 and 1948 Miss Cochran proved her ability at the long-range game when she took a second and a third place in her P-51.
The only airplane ever designed for the specific purpose of winning the Bendix Trophy was Ben Howard’s “Mister Mulligan.” That was back in 1935. Although Howard had won his fame as a pylon duster, his job as a transport pilot for United Airlines forbade his participation in closed-course competition. So Ben made an all-out bid for the Bendix. With the aid of Gordon Israel, who is now an engineer for Grumman, he developed an airplane which was to introduce a new technique in transcontinental racing. “Mr. Muilligan” was designed to fly the course nonstop and at high altitude. Neither of these practices had been followed before that time. They were definitely a forward step in long-distance flying and they brought victory to Howard and co-pilot Israel.
-
This, by the way, was the closest of all Bendix races. Roscoe Turner flying his powerful Wedell-Williams, which was actually a faster airplane, had to make refueling stops. He also flew at the then conventional lower altitudes. Yet he finished just 23 seconds behind Ben Howard.
“Mister Mulligan” was truly a fine airplane, for it not only won the Bendix but also the Thompson Trophy for Harold Neumann in a type of race for which it was not particularly well suited. It was a high-wing cabin monoplane, the direct ancestor of the Howard DGA-8, four-place commercial airplane of later years. Unfortunately, the “Mulligan” was completely destroyed in a crash landing which almost cost the lives of Benny and his co-pilot wife, Maxine, in the 1936 Bendix race.
The first man to repeat a Bendix victory was Frank Fuller, Jr. This sports man pilot got his name on the trophy in 1937 and 1939. Like Jackie Cochran, Fuller was well off in his own right and flew airplanes for the fun of it. He found the Bendix a real adventure. Fuller, too, flew a Seversky P-35. His 1939 time of 7 hours, 14 minutes and 19 seconds was the best of the prewar records, an average speed of 282.098 mph.
During the war years of 1940 to 1945 there was no air racing. But those years produced the airplanes which were to be featured in the postwar Bendix. With surplus fighter planes available at less money than would be required to build a suitable airplane, the Bendix was assured of plenty of hot entries for its resumption in 1946. In fact, that race stands as the one having the greatest number of participants. Twenty-two racers actually made the starting line-up and seventeen finished. Of these, the majority were Lockheed P-38s. But the P-51 demonstrated its superiority when the four in the race took the first four places.
Paul Mantz, the Hollywood stunt flyer, took home the Bendix Trophy that year with the remarkable time of 4 hours, 43 minutes and 14 seconds or 435.5 mph. Mantz is undoubtedly the all-time master of cross-country air racing, for he went on to repeat his Bendix victory again in ‘47 and ‘48. In addition, he has broken more long-distance speed records than you can shake a stick at. His remarkable work with the P-51 is an outstanding page of Bendix history.
North American P-51 as a Post War Racer 1946 to 1948 Winner
These postwar races have been notable for their close finishes. Mantz nosed out Jackie Cochran by a few seconds less than 10 minutes, in ‘46, beat Joe De Bona by a mere 1 minute and 18 seconds in ‘47 and edged out Linton Carney by 1 minute, 9 seconds in ‘48.
Then too, in that 1948 contest Jacqueline Cochran followed Carney in by only 10
seconds and Ed Lunken trailed her by 2 minutes and 39 seconds, a real whirl wind finish. These pilots all flew P-51s.
Fittingly, the last of the races for propeller-driven airplanes – 1949 - closed with an all-time record speed. Joe De Bona, flying for movie actor Jimmie Stewart, made the run in 4 hours, 16 minutes and 17 seconds at a speed of 470.136 mph.
It was with the postwar resumption of the Bendix Speed Dash that aviation’s newest important development came into the picture. Jet propulsion entered air racing. A special “J” division of the Bendix was set up in 1946 with a select group of military planes and pilots participating. These events have naturally been faster than the traditional civilian race and have made a spectacular showing. However, they have not as yet resulted in a race between the service branches. Rather, the Air Force and the Navy have taken turns at staging this classic event.
On the first two occasions, Air Force F-80s put on the show and then the Navy FJ-ls had a crack at it. Last year the Air Force’s Thunderjets succeeded in making the run in less than four hours! Major Vernon A. Ford piloted the winning ship in at an average speed of 529.614 mph, a time of 3 hours, 45 min., 51 sec. (one fueling stop).
The very fact that a modern airplane can now negotiate this distance in so short a time is due in no small part to the engineering research and flying experience that have gone into the Transcontinental Speed Dash over the years.
Pilot Aircraft Average MPH Time Prize Money
1931—LOS ANGELES TO CLEVELAND
Maj. James. H. Doolittle Laird Super Solution 223.058 9:10:21 $7,500
H. S. Johnson Lockheed Orion 199.816 10:14:22 $4,500
Beeler Blevins Lockheed Orion 188.992 10:49:33 $3,000
1932—LOS ANGELES TO CLEVELAND
Capt. Jas. H. Haizlip Wedell-Williams 245.00 8:19:45 $8,750
Jas R. Wedell Wedell-Williams 232.00 8:47:31 $3,750
Roscoe Turner Wedell-Williams 226.00 9:02:25 $2,250
1933—NEW YORK TO LOS ANGELES
Roscoe Turner Wedell-Williams 214.78 11:30:00 $4,050
J. R. Wedell Wedell-Williams 209.23 11:58:18 $2,250
1934—LOS ANGELES TO CLEVELAND
Doug. Davis Wedell-WIlliams 216.237 9:26:41 $4.500
John A. Worthen Wedell-WIlliams 203.213 10:03:00 $2,500
1935—NEW YORK TO LOS ANGELES
Ben 0. Howard Howard Racer 238.704 8:33:16.3 $4,500
Roscoe Turner Wedell-WIlliams 238.522 8:33:39.8 $2,500
Russell Thaw Northrop Gamma 201.928 10:06:45.0 $1,500
1936—NEW YORK TO LOS ANGELES
Louise Thaden -
Blanche Noyes Beechcraft C-17-R 165.346 14:55:01 $4,500
Laura Ingalls Lockheed Orion 157.466 15:39:38 $2,500
Wm. S. Gulick -
Buster Warner Vultee 156.492 15:45:25 $1,500
1937—LOS ANGELES TO CLEVELAND
Frank W. Fuller, Jr. Severeky 258.2 7:54:26.31 $9,000
Earl Ortman Keith-Rider 224.833 9:49:21.73 $5,000
Jacqueline Cochran Beechcraft D-17-W 194.74 10:29:08.7 $1,500
1938—LOS ANGELES TO CLEVELAND
Jacqueline Cochran Severeky 249.114 8:10:31.4 $9.000
Frank W. Fuller, Jr. Severeky 238.604 8:33:29.2 $5,000
Paul Mantz Lockheed Orion 206.579 9:36:25.4 $3,000
1939—LOS ANGELES TO CLEVELAND
Frank W. Fuller, Jr. Seversky 282.098 7:14:19.02 $9,000
Arthur Bussy Bellanca 244.486 8:21 :08 $5,000
Paul Mantz Lockheed Orion 234.875 8:41:38.38 $3,000
1946—LOS ANGELES TO CLEVELAND
Paul Mantz P-51 435.501 4:43:14 $10,000
Jacqueline Cochran P-51 420.925 4:52 :00.4 $5,500
Thomas J. Mayson P-51 408.220 5:01:05.6 $3,000
1947—LOS ANGELES TO CLEVELAND
Paul Mantz P-51 460.423 4:26:57.4 $10,000
Joe C. DeBona P-51 458.203 4:28:15.0 $5,500
Edmund Lunken P-51 408.733 5:00:43.0 $3,000
1948—LOS ANGELES TO CLEVELAND
Paul Mantz P-51 447.980 4:33:48.7 $10,000
Linton B. Carney P-51 446.112 4:34:57.5 $5,500
Jacqueline Cochran P-51 445.847 4:35:07.3 $4000
1949—ROSAMOND DRY LAKE, CALIF., TO CLEVELAND
Joe C. DeBona F-51 470.136 4:16:17.5 $10,000
Stanley Reaver F-51 450.221 4:27:37.7 $5,500
Herman Salmon F-51 449.214 4:28:13.7 $3,000
-
If you read Doolittle's book "I Could Never be so Lucky Again", he describes competing in many air races, like the Pulitzer Cup race and the Schneider Cup International air race. He won the Schnieder in 1925 by using steep, banked turns at the pylons. He would stay level until approaching the turn, go into a gentle climb, and then push the nose down to gain speed in the turns instead of losing it (basically instead of a hard, flat turn, he pulled a yo yo and kept his speed up). No one else had thought of it. The main reason that race sticks out in my memory is because the Schnieder Cup races were in seaplanes, and it was a big deal for the Army to beat the Navy guys in the race. But even more than this I remember it because right after the race, he used the same plane to set a new speed record by manually adjusting the prop RPM to squeeze more speed out of it (they didnt have adjustable props back then, and Doolittle was experimenting with different prop pitchs to affect airspeed without adjusting the engine). He managed 245.7 mph in a Curtiss R3C racing bi-plane with a 400 HP V-12.
-
Well, sure. But those were racing planes. Privately own and run. They were no doubt stripped down completely, and souped up as much as could be (and in the post war years there were advances in engine technology that we didn't have during the war).
Interesting read tho'! :aok
-
Krusty hit the nail on the head. Those are not stock aircraft or engines.
-
Those are probably ground speeds too. The jetstream can easily add 100mph.
-
Hi Bodhi,
>Those are not stock aircraft or engines.
I'd suspect that flying eastwards made a contribution, too, as the prevailing winds probably helped speed. I don't know the specific North American conditions, but before WW2, a Hawker Hurricane apparently made headlines with a 400 mph average on a suitable (high-wind) run in England :-)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
-
While I can not remember the book, I remember reading that some of those 51's even placed fuel bags in the gun bays after they modified them by removing all nonessential structure. If you think about it, it is definitely feasible especially considering the existence of the fuel lines headed to the drop tanks.
Still, I agree, the winds aloft definitely helped, but as you look, you also see an increase every year in top sppeds, and that is more than likely owed to the techincal advances.
-
Hi Bohdi,
>While I can not remember the book, I remember reading that some of those 51's even placed fuel bags in the gun bays after they modified them by removing all nonessential structure. If you think about it, it is definitely feasible especially considering the existence of the fuel lines headed to the drop tanks.
Definitely!
I seem to remember reading that before WW2, Seversky even entered a fighter (P-35?) featuring a wet wing, but was forced to withdraw his entry again since the wet wing was a military secret at the time.
>Still, I agree, the winds aloft definitely helped, but as you look, you also see an increase every year in top sppeds, and that is more than likely owed to the techincal advances.
... in wind-making ;-)
But of course you're right. Ironically, the slower the aircraft, the greater the benefit from the wind! :-)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
-
Well, sure. But those were racing planes. Privately own and run. They were no doubt stripped down completely, and souped up as much as could be (and in the post war years there were advances in engine technology that we didn't have during the war).
Actually the first race was 1946 with a P-51C. Souped up? Maybe but then again the technique for "souping up" engines were developed during the war.
I have flown coast to coast many times and I can tell you that if you took off from Cleveland today in a 757 your time to arrival in LA wouldn't be much better if at all than 4 hours. In fact I think it would be worse without actually checking. Sure they path an aireliner takes is not as direct but the time is almost miraculous.
To make it even more amazing the race was won in either 1962 or 1963 by a B-58 Hustler (Mach 2 Bomber) in about 2 hours 50 minutes. That is not much faster at all, considering the technology to the best P-51 time of a hair over 4 hours.
I will go out on a limb and say that no other prop aircraft of the war had the capability of accomplishing that feat with or without "fuel bags".
FYI, a condition of that race was internal fuel only.
-
Bah! Everyone who reads the "Luft'46" boards know that all of the late war German aircraft like the DO335, FW190-D and TA-152 were banned from being used. As a result Kurt Tank was robbed of his rightful place in air racing history.
-Von Vestiehiemerclappentrapp
(Good read F4UDA! Thanks. I would have loved to have seen some of these post war races! Especially the start of the 1946 Bendix with all of the P-63's, 38's, 51's and other aircraft !)
-
Where is Kurfurst to claim the 109 would have done it half the time?:D
How much 'souping up' would have been done? The Unlimiteds are getting 3000hp plus on much modded engines and they don't fly for that long.
-
Originally posted by F4UDOA
An amazing artical on the Bendix Trophy races. This race was internal fuel only. Check the average cruise speeds for the P-51, over 400MPH up to 470MPH in 1949!!!
Not trying to rain on your parade, but when we are talking about souped up racing planes ...
(http://www.fiddlersgreen.net/AC/aircraft/Messerschmitt-Me209/info/209v4.gif)
Me-209 V1 ... absolute world speed record of 469.22 mph ... 26 April, 1939.
10 years ...
-
So what Sholtzi, it could not fly from California to Clevland.:)
On 0ct 23 1933, the MC 72, with 2 big pontoons hanging from it, set the record at 440.68mph. It took the 209 ~6 years to better its speed.
(http://www.aviationtrivia.homestead.com/files/mc72.jpg)
-
whats a wet wing? :)
-
Hi Flyboy,
>whats a wet wing? :)
This is a term (I believe it's actually a proper technical term, but I'm not sure on that) for a wing that acts as fuel tank, instead of having a fuel tank mounted inside.
That means the wing skin is the fuel tank skin. The advantages are that you don't have to carry a fuel tank (lighter weight) and that you can use even the last small corner of the wings' internal volume to carry fuel (small plane, little drag).
The disadvantage is that if your plane gets hit, fuel spills out immediately, so it's not really well suited for military aircraft. (I have to admit that I don't know whether modern combat jets use wet wings. Tradeoffs might be a bit different nowadays than they were in WW2.)
Another disadvantage is that it can be difficult to keep the tanks tight even though the wings bend under aerodynamic loads, and have hundreds or thousands of riveting points. The P-35 apparently was a continous maintenance problem due to that.
It's also near impossible to make a wet wing self-sealing, at least with WW2 technology.
However, if it comes to pure range, it's a great thing to have a wet wing! :-)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
-
Are u sure that it serves as a fuel tank? Couldn´t it be the term for the water cooling system ? The 209 V1 did not have afaik a pressurized water cooling system, so the water vaporized in this high performance engine. The steam was led into the wing where it condensed (wet wing?). The cool water was collected and brought to the engine back.
niklas
-
Henning I remember reading of the trial of a 109 with a 2nd wing acting as tank and so being a wet wing .
It's exact or was it a fake ?
-
Regarding the Wet wing. Paul Mantz who raced P51Cs after the war used the wet wing in his P51s for the Bendix. It essentially meant sealing all the cracks in the wing and using all that available space for fuel.
Both his 51s still survive. One, now owned by Kermit Weeks has been completly restored to stock military P51C status and flies as "Ina the Macon Belle" in Tuskegee Airmen colors.
The other is in the NASM. When they restored it, they had to replace the wing due to the damage done by the use of the wet wing. corrossion etc, really wrecked the insides.
Jackie Cochran did not use the wet wing, She carried 165 gallon tanks under the wings.
The P51B/C was the preferred mount of the air racers as it was considered the faster and more streamlined of the Merlin Mustangs.
Top photo showing Mantz's wet wing P51C. The blankets on the wings were to keep the fuel from expanding in the heat.
Bottom photo is Jackie Cochran's P51C
Dan/Slack
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1106171567_mantz51.jpg)
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/169_1106171622_jcp51c.jpg)
-
Originally posted by straffo
Henning I remember reading of the trial of a 109 with a 2nd wing acting as tank and so being a wet wing .
It's exact or was it a fake ?
A Hurricane was tested this way too. Not a wet wing in the true sense of the word.
Dan/Slack
-
Hi Niklas,
>Are u sure that it serves as a fuel tank? Couldn´t it be the term for the water cooling system ? The 209 V1 did not have afaik a pressurized water cooling system, so the water vaporized in this high performance engine. The steam was led into the wing where it condensed (wet wing?). The cool water was collected and brought to the engine back.
Hm, the term "wet wing" definitely describes the fuel tank concept. The Me 209 was mentioned in this thread only conincidentally, though the surface condensation cooling certainly got wetness into the wing, too :-)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
-
Hi Straffo,
>Henning I remember reading of the trial of a 109 with a 2nd wing acting as tank and so being a wet wing .
>It's exact or was it a fake ?
I'm convinced it was a fake. On the site where it came from, it appeared harmless as it's fictional character was evident, but I've got to say that I'm a big fan of marking modified photographs as such because once off this site, the photo is going to cause a lot of confusion.
A few years back, (m) was suggested for such a marking, similar to the copyright (c). Maybe we history buffs should try and convince the photo wizards to start using that before they drive us around the bend ;-)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
-
Hi Dan,
>The other is in the NASM. When they restored it, they had to replace the wing due to the damage done by the use of the wet wing. corrossion etc, really wrecked the insides.
Roger that, I got the NASM book on this one - Excalibur III it is, with a wet wing (corrosion photos included). Great book, quite different from the usual Warbirds stories but fascinating all the way :-)
Just reading: "Winds aloft chart used by Charles Blair for the Atlantic speed crossing. At near midpoint, the helping winds were giving Excalibur III a ground speed of 600 mph." Wow! 8-O
>The P51B/C was the preferred mount of the air racers as it was considered the faster and more streamlined of the Merlin Mustangs.
Makes sense! :-)
Excalibur III (when restored) had a V-1650-9 engine - do you know the characteristics of this one? I've found a claim this engine type was used in the P-51M prototype (with water-injection), but I don't know anything about full throttle height etc.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
-
Originally posted by HoHun
Hi Dan,
Excalibur III (when restored) had a V-1650-9 engine - do you know the characteristics of this one? I've found a claim this engine type was used in the P-51M prototype (with water-injection), but I don't know anything about full throttle height etc.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
In "Mustang-Story of the P51 Fighter" by Robert Grunhegan, he lists engine details. He has the V-1650-9 as used in the P51H with the V-1650-9A in the P51M prototype
Quoting from the book:
"The equivilant British rating of this engine was the R.M. 16.S.M. This series was developed from the Merlin Mark 100 and featured heavier construction for sustained operation at higher boost pressures. Main castings were strengthened and the crankshaft used end to end oil feed
Max power for take off 1380 BHP at 3000 RPM at 61" hg(dry) fuel flow 160 GPH
1830 BHP at 3000 RPM at 80" hg, (wet) fuel flow 210 GPH
War Emergency (wet) low blower 1930 BHP at 10,100fet 3000 RPM at 80"hg
High Blower 1630 BHP at 23,500ft"
There's other bits and pieces on it in the book as well.
Dan/Slack
-
Are 1650-9 figures rammed or static figures, dan?
can`t find my 51H curves to make it clear..
-
Originally posted by HoHun
Excalibur III (when restored) had a V-1650-9 engine - do you know the characteristics of this one? I've found a claim this engine type was used in the P-51M prototype (with water-injection), but I don't know anything about full throttle height etc.
Regards,
Henning (HoHun) [/B]
It was basically a -3 strengthened to allow it to use 80+ in Hg manifold pressures vice 67 in Hg for the -3. "Vees for Victory" has some unrammed figures for it, that match the figures in Guppy35's posting.
Greg Shaw
-
Hi Greg,
>It was basically a -3 strengthened to allow it to use 80+ in Hg manifold pressures vice 67 in Hg for the -3. "Vees for Victory" has some unrammed figures for it, that match the figures in Guppy35's posting.
Ah, thanks, the V-1650-3 seems a good choice for long-range flight because of its high-altitude design point. Combining that with Dan's information that the -9 is a 100 series Merlin (which I believe was a series that had a reputation for excellent reliability), I'd say Excalibur III had the perfect engine for the job :-)
Regards,
Henning (HoHun)
-
Yes all fighters today use wet wings and bags in the fuselage or wet fuselages....big circle back to the A6M Zero...of course most fighters use a Halon bottle to fill the tanks with halon once guns are selected.......