Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: mechanic on January 18, 2005, 08:40:20 PM
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http://www.freeroleentertainment.com/files/FW190.wmv
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That doesnt look at all like a Spit V:p
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Bfink...
Looks like the poor guy in the Yak could use some help finding the throttle. :D
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yup lol
i reakon he expected me to dive away like any sane FW pilot. thought id cut power and reverse him...
no need to say he didnt salute me .... :lol
had another great fight in a A8 vs a pony today, much the same.
no one expects the Spanish Inqui.....er....a 190 to turn fight :)
Red: it was a spitV, just had clever paint job to fool turn n burners :)
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Q: whats so great about 190s?
A: that 95% of the players dont know how to fly it
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Originally posted by Flyboy
Q: whats so great about 190s?
A: that 95% of the players dont know how to fly it
Give that man a Cigar we have a winner.
Same thing can be said about the P-38, And the P-51.
Problem is few people ever bother to take the time to actually learn these planes.
They expect them to be more like a spit or a la7 where the plane does most of the work for you
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What chu mean? Da p38 does almost all the work for me.. I fly around and badguys just find themselfs infront of me guns.. I dunno how it happens.. So I just considered the p38 magic!
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Originally posted by mechanic
no one expects the Spanish Inqui.....er....a 190 to turn fight :)
Can you blame them?
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Originally posted by Flyboy
Q: whats so great about 190s?
A: that 95% of the players dont know how to fly it
Lets see. I know how to fly one. Its really easy, just follow the following steps
1) Point 190 at bad guy. Start firing at 1K.
2) If you survived through step 1 then point nose down and WEP on
Optional step 3) While pointing nose down, look for planes on the runway, fly through the ack and strafe one
4) head for friendly ack or other friendlies
JK :rofl
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK Problem is few people ever bother to take the time to actually learn these planes.
that comes with time for some, for me i always used to only use spits, pony's and juggs.
now its f4u's, and im starting to dabble with the D9 now.
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P38 aint nothing but a big target lol
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There a quite a few planes that you can quickly kill someone if you stand and fight because they are in shock you didnt dive away and run. P-47's (especially the D-11), 190's (especially the A-5), 51's (especially the -B) are all good for that. MOST folks, by the time they decide you are not running, and start to counter you, they are already in deeep doodoo. Of course, when you run into another guy who wants to fight no matter what the situation, your probably in trouble, but those guys are rare enough that you will usually get away with it.
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I've found that the FW is a great plane 1 v 1 vs. the average spit simply because you can use its weaknesses to your advantage. Namely, the fact that it bleeds speed quicker. With an aggressive merge you can usually force a scissors right off the bat and get a guns solution before the first scissors is completed. If your gunnery is good he's dead. If not, nose low turns and scissors with altitude can prolong the fight.
A 10k coalt merge with a Spit, La7, or 109 is a really fun fight for the FW, win or lose.
Now this won't work against a guy who knows what he's doing, but c'mon, we're talking about the average MA spit here :)
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152 and 262 used to be like that too.
But now the 262 is just a tad too heavy to be safe in anything less than perfectly zen or adrenaline-overdrive conditions, and the 152 has turned, like Fariz said himself, into a nearly impossible wild horse for stall fighting, pretty much unrideable compared to the AH1 version.
Shame as those two were just enough to surprise even Frenchy's 47 with some tight barrels, and Taki's N1K/Stang's 38 with good airbrake overshots respectively.
Challenge-seekers ahoi!
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That 190 gee whiz stick from AW that KwaKwak mentionned get here yet?
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Originally posted by Raider179
P38 aint nothing but a big target lol
Ya.. Mine is a pretty large target.. But something about the magic properties of the 38 causes the badguys to miss.. I just yank the stick this way or that way and my plane magically responds with the correct behavior to cause the shots to go wizzin by.. Then, for some reason, the badguys fly right by me right infront of my guns.. The only thing my 38 seems to be missing is a little red lite to flash when I'm suppose to fire.. But usually, I just count to 3 after I see them firing and pull the trigger.. and BOOM! I don't understand how this works.. So, like I said.. I considered the 38 to just be magic.
Raider, have you not flown by my 38 and seen the badguy seeking 50s hit you yet? Their magic I tell you man!
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I enjoy turnfighting in an A-8. Rarely do I get to stall speeds, but sometimes if it's 1 vs 1, I'll push the limits.
La7 became too easy after only 4 months of flying it, IMO it is the best turnfighter in the game, most don't know how to REALLY fly it. SECOmust is the best I've ever seen in it. Now I fly the La5 instead.
I now spend MA time flying the Spit1, Hurry's, A-8, Ki-61 and the Hellkitty. Every now and then I'll grab the 262 or the TA-152 (still my fav in MA).
Karaya
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I'm a dweeb, so what do I know. But the only 190 I could ever dogfight in was the A4 in AW. Wish we had it in here. The A5 is close, as far as handling characteristics go.
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The a5 is a very good ride.. so is the a8.. both are very lethal in the proper circumstances.. I like the a5 better for perks but there is very little difference in the a5 and a8..
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Me. And dont try to show anything flying against clueless spit or whatever pilots.
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Actualy MANDO this film shows a decent yak pilot 'chanzz'
hes a very good stick when ive come up agaisnt him in the past. i just dont think he expected a fight from a 190
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Well the yak pilot not only didnt exercise throttle control but he missed at least 2 shots that should have been kills/hvy damage. 190s are great planes and the A8 is a real killer with those 30mm's.
Just remember to stay fast or you are dead.
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yeah, he did hit me in the fuel tank though. i like to think i made him miss rather than he couldnt shoot ;)
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Originally posted by mechanic
Actualy MANDO this film shows a decent yak pilot 'chanzz'
hes a very good stick when ive come up agaisnt him in the past. i just dont think he expected a fight from a 190
Exactly, he was surprized to not see the nose down run or the stick stirring. Your skills or the fact that some one did not expect a move does not make a 190 a good dog fighter. A good fighter maybe, but not a dog fighter. What happened to the yak happens to me all the time. I try to keep speed up cause "I know" he is running but once in a while, you meet some one that wants to fight (win or lose)
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i still disagree, against a pony, jug, any luft plane, and anything else thats heavier than a spit or lala, the 190a8/5 can be an awesome dogfighter.
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Originally posted by mechanic
i just dont think he expected a fight from a 190
Very good comment and very true. That is what makes them commit initial an catasfrophic mistakes (that stone-plane cant fight, it will be very easy task). The overconfidence of the yak is a problem and mistake of the pilot, not the plane. Yak is far, far superior dogfighter than 190A8 in all and every aspect. Roll doesnt count, Yak can fly slower and will much better control with an equivalent "rudder" supported roll. In fact, 190 roll rate at 200 mph does not help it at all, it will stall before any pursuer doing 180 mph.
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
The a5 is a very good ride.. so is the a8.. both are very lethal in the proper circumstances.. I like the a5 better for perks but there is very little difference in the a5 and a8..
I haven't tried the A8 in AH because the departure characteristics for it in AW were so bad, I didn't even think about it when I went over to AH.
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Originally posted by NoBaddy
Bfink...
Looks like the poor guy in the Yak could use some help finding the throttle. :D
Finding his aim on a jinking A8 wouldnt hurt either.
Its a nice film. But it really only displays a scenario that is played out day after day since the release of AH2. For what ever the reasons, (There is much discussion on it) the tougher gunnery that some are experiencing is responsible for such out comes of engagments of this type.
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Originally posted by MANDO
The overconfidence of the yak is a problem and mistake of the pilot, not the plane.
Well, "It's the pilot, not the plane" in every 1v1... Point is, a FW can fight, it doesn't have to run. Arguing against this theory doesn't do much to make the MA more interesting...
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Originally posted by Mugzeee
Finding his aim on a jinking A8 wouldnt hurt either.
Its a nice film. But it really only displays a scenario that is played out day after day since the release of AH2. For what ever the reasons, (There is much discussion on it) the tougher gunnery that some are experiencing is responsible for such out comes of engagments of this type.
i agree mugzeee, but then is the gunnery not more realistic than before?
in AH1 i routinely got kills from d600-800 no problem. thats just not feesible in RL IMO.
the gunnery is harder in AH2 for sure, but also take into account the Yak's limited arsenal, and the small target the 190 provide from 6 o'clock.
if i had tried to break turn he would have had a decent deflection or snap on me. keeping him dead 6 was my only chance i thought. A steep rolling dive with no power, asuming he would keep his speed, followed by a few scissors and a reversal produced the outcome.
had he been in a wing mounted, multiple 20mm loaded plane like a spit it would have been very different.
the point of the thread was that a FW190 is not just good at BnZ, running and HO'ing. almost every plane in AH2 can dogfight to some extent, others alot more than commonly understood.
please also note that the engagement started with the enemy d600 off my tail co-E, co-alt.
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Originally posted by mechanic
the point of the thread was that a FW190 is not just good at BnZ, running and HO'ing. almost every plane in AH2 can dogfight to some extent, others alot more than commonly understood.
That is what I do, take advantage of using the unexpected. Folks dont expect a P-47 or a 190 to stand and fight instead of dive and run, but, inparticular the P47-D11 and the 190A-5 turn much much better than most people have bothered to find out and can become an unpleasant surprize.
As already stated, they will also not have much chance against someone expecting you to fight, and who knows what they are doing, but as also already stated that is a small minority of the MA.
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yeah i agree.
the Jug40 is not half bad either. i think its my favorite thunderbolt. it has magnificent stall fighting characteristics.
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Originally posted by TheDudeDVant
The a5 is a very good ride.. so is the a8.. both are very lethal in the proper circumstances.. I like the a5 better for perks but there is very little difference in the a5 and a8..
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Originally posted by slimm50
I haven't tried the A8 in AH because the departure characteristics for it in AW were so bad, I didn't even think about it when I went over to AH.
A5 turns better then the A8.
A8 also has slightly better guns.
Both are outstanding planes once you learn them
Either can dog fight (turnfight) to some extent and for a limited time.
Thing is getting a firing solution as rapidly as possible. the longer the fight goes on the more the odds are not in your favor particularly with the regular turn Burners.
the trick is in knowing when and having he self dicipline to get out of dodge. And extend or head for home
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Originally posted by mechanic
yeah i agree.
the Jug40 is not half bad either. i think its my favorite thunderbolt. it has magnificent stall fighting characteristics.
A light Jug is one dangerous plane when handled correctly and turns and can turnfight a hell of alot better then people give it credit for.
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Originally posted by mechanic
i still disagree, against a pony, jug, any luft plane, and anything else thats heavier than a spit or lala, the 190a8/5 can be an awesome dogfighter.
Perhaps, but I still say given two pilots of equal skill level, one in a pony, the other in any German plane ya want, the Pony should own the other plane.
Heh, can ya tell I'm a Pony-phile?:p
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After 3 years of sticking with the 38 .
It took 3" days" of the FW 190a8 to change my mind
Long live the Butcher Bird!:aok
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Only problem with the 190s is that if you are involved in an engagement with more than 1 fighter(as is usually the case in the MA) and you try to dogfight you are gonna lose. (if they know what they are doing) Keep em fast
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keeping your plane fast is a sure way to do well in a FW. but many pilots underestimate the use of 'slowing down' also.
most people in the MA fly at what i like to call 'FFT', or full f-----g throttle. speed is a hiderance sometimes.
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Originally posted by mechanic
keeping your plane fast is a sure way to do well in a FW. but many pilots underestimate the use of 'slowing down' also.
most people in the MA fly at what i like to call 'FFT', or full f-----g throttle. speed is a hiderance sometimes.
Agreed I faced a similar situation last night with a Tiffy a 190 and a Yak. one after the other.
I reduced throttle and did basically the same thing as was shown in the film with all 3 Killed the tiffy and 190 outright.
With the Yak I added a roll to the left to cause the overshoot then broke hard right.
Woulda had him too but I was down to BBS and only managed to lightly ping him.
Musta made him nervous as he ran away and gave me enough time to break and RTB myself
Working your throttle is a big part of it.
Knowing when to slow down.
Often in a turnfight its not the fastest plane that wins but the slowest