Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Sabre on January 19, 2005, 12:21:59 PM
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To my mind, this is the number one threat to US security against terrorism, and continues to create an ever-expanding burden on our social systems in this country. Israel reports a dramatic decrease in terrorist attacks in that country since completing their walls around Palestinian areas. Is that the way we should go? Do we use the national guard to police the borders? What do we do with illegals we catch entering or inside the States? What should we do to employers that hire them? Are work permits for those found to be here illegally the answer, or in invitation to greater illegal imigration?
My thoughts are that some combination is required; a solution that is both preventative (slowing illegal imigration, and making legal but temporary imigration process more efficient, but tied to job availability), and punitive (heavy fines and possible jail time for employers, drastically limiting social services for those here illegally, some type of punishment for multiple illegal border crashers). What are your thoughts?
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Make it easier to come in legally and togher to get in illegally.
By tougher I mean Troops along the borders with orders of shoot to kill. laying land mines woudnt hurt either
Anyone sneaking in is not a fiend anyway
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But who will do all the dirty low paid jobs no one else wants? It's the same in this country. Lots of illegals and legal foreigners doing the dirty low paid jobs we don't want to do.
The best and only solution is for the countries these people come from to get rich enough to provide jobs for ambitious people of the kind who emigrate to better themselves.
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Illegal aliens should not have access to any governmental services or benifits, except emergency (life threatening) health care.
Any illegal alien found gainfully employed in the US should be eligible for a green card, but not welfare type benifits.
...heck, I might go so far as to say an illegal with a job gets to stay and a chronic welfare recipient gets shipped out. A one-for-one swap.
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I heard some comedian on TV last night as I was dozing off and my wife was still watching. This guy said we should hire Advertising reps to "Sell America" in an attempt to raise the world view of the U.S.
One of the things he opened with was "America, 380 thousand Illigal immegrants can't be wrong!" Then he added, why is it that you never see tiny fishing vessels loaded up with Americans trying to escape the country?
First of all I want to say I welcome to my country, any person who wishes to come here, work, pay their taxes like we all have to, and become POSITIVE members of society. This country was formed from and has thrived because of its great diversity.
I agree with furious, I would gladly trade 1for1 terminal welfare cases for ambitious foreigners.
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Cpxxx
First off, they are not JUST taking the low paying "dirty" jobs.
Try getting a job in any of the trades.
Second, thats why we need to reform the imagration system to make it easier for people who want to work to come in.
SO that when they do come they get taxed and are part of the system. This was we could do background checks on them.
I say stream line the system and make it so people can get in to do those jobs, and close the border and kick anyone cought here ilegaly out.
This will take a terror attack top change because both the dems and reps look at these ilegals as future voters and dont want to touch it. It will take the deaths of Americans to get them off the dime.
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Why dont you just let anyone who joins your Army get a greencard?
And if he gets killed in service, full citezenship to his family?
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Originally posted by patrone
Why dont you just let anyone who joins your Army get a greencard?
And if he gets killed in service, full citezenship to his family?
I'd be willing to bet that would cause a SHARP increase in military suicides or questionable casualties.
I think each person should be reviewed on a case by case situation. No one should get in because of the actions of others, except small children accompanied by their parents.
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Well whatwouldyaknow.......
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Originally posted by cpxxx
But who will do all the dirty low paid jobs no one else wants? It's the same in this country. Lots of illegals and legal foreigners doing the dirty low paid jobs we don't want to do.
The best and only solution is for the countries these people come from to get rich enough to provide jobs for ambitious people of the kind who emigrate to better themselves.
I hear this one all the time from people, but they never answer this question: Why are they paid so low? Because, they're hear illegally, and know they can't complain to anyone about pay/working conditions/treatment. Alternately, why don't more Americans want those jobs? Because the employers know they can get dirt-cheap illegal aliens to do it for a fraction of the cost. Less than minimum wage, no benefits to provide, no payroll taxes or SS to pay out, no retirement funds to feed.
I've no problem with someone coming here legally to work (and support the social infrastructure). The problem is, that's not what's happening.
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Originally posted by A_Clown
...One of the things he opened with was "America, 380 thousand Illigal immegrants can't be wrong!"
The last estimate I heard was 20 million.
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I know a girl who is here legally, applying for a student visa, and there's been a help wanted sign at several stores, for years, but she can't apply.
Who's job would she be taking? other than the fact she's smarter than most people, she wants to work, but the BS red tape is preventing that.
Good for her she has enough money to live w/o working here. But even that isint gonna last forever
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She is the person Imagration reform should help. Instead of her having to jump through hoops she should be able to get a work visa with a background check.
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Originally posted by Sabre
I hear this one all the time from people, but they never answer this question: Why are they paid so low? Because, they're hear illegally, and know they can't complain to anyone about pay/working conditions/treatment. Alternately, why don't more Americans want those jobs? Because the employers know they can get dirt-cheap illegal aliens to do it for a fraction of the cost. Less than minimum wage, no benefits to provide, no payroll taxes or SS to pay out, no retirement funds to feed.
Exactly. The only way I think you could deal with this problem is to absolutely hammer any employer who does it, unless they can show that they themselves had been duped.
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Originally posted by Sabre
My thoughts are that some combination is required; a solution that is both preventative (slowing illegal imigration, and making legal but temporary imigration process more efficient, but tied to job availability), and punitive (heavy fines and possible jail time for employers, drastically limiting social services for those here illegally, some type of punishment for multiple illegal border crashers). What are your thoughts?
outsource agriculture to India.
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When I'm President my first order of business will be a national ID card and machine gun posts on the border.
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Originally posted by Martlet
When I'm President my first order of business will be a national ID card and machine gun posts on the border.
I just love to hate you Martlet ;)
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Originally posted by Martlet
When I'm President my first order of business will be a national ID card and machine gun posts on the border.
most countries have both. It will happen here in the US too when Schwartzeneger becomes president.
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Originally posted by Furious
Illegal aliens should not have access to any governmental services or benifits, except emergency (life threatening) health care.
Any illegal alien found gainfully employed in the US should be eligible for a green card, but not welfare type benifits.
...heck, I might go so far as to say an illegal with a job gets to stay and a chronic welfare recipient gets shipped out. A one-for-one swap.
Very sound idea. :aok
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Originally posted by spitfiremkv
most countries have both. It will happen here in the US too when Schwartzeneger becomes president.
Schwarzy was not born here so only his son will be eligible for the job.
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well.... most of us have short memories. Citizens used to do this "dirty work" like construction.
It was hard work but it payed well and you could live anywehere from just getting by to upper middle class on the wages of a trades person in trades like.... Painter, carpenter, roofer, sheetrocker/taper, concrete worker, plasterer or mason.
Now those jobs go to crews that make less than $10 an hour and don't speak english.
These were jobs for Americans who didn't have any desire or maybe ability to go to college... A high school graduate could work with his hands and live in the same neighborhood as a manager at a factory or corporataion.
I have nothing again st working hard for cheaper but... it has to be a level playing field... NO benifiets for illegals. They should be charged for visas to work besides.
Jail time for employers who knowingly hired illegals.
lazs
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Laz
You know what is kind of funny? Liberals are supposed to be the ones that are all about human rights and fairness and treating everyone equally and protecting the rights of workers.
But they seem to be the first to chime in and defend ilegals with "well the price of produce would go way up" etc.
So they are willing to allow corporations and farmers to abuse these people and offer them a sub standard wage with no benefits so the sprouts they have on there turkey club with light mayo is cheaper.
exploiting people for cheap labor is wrong, but I guess cheap produce is more important to some libs then human/workers rights.
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I am illegal, ask me all the questions you want, I know the subject pretty good :D
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Any ilegal with a cool car should get to stay.
You have a job right Frenchy?
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Yeah, I'm managing a roofing company, and two nights a week I'm flying radioactive stuff part 135. I make 3500ish/month (more or less).
What most Americans complaining about immigration don't know is that you need to have a bachelor corresponding to your job to apply for a work permit. For pilot (like me), there is no bachelor required to have your licence, so your request is automatically refused :aok. (Just get leagal just quite doesn't cut it)
You had some kind of clemency, like you have a job as a roofer illegally for so long (no bachelor rrequired), you could still apply for a green card. Alas this was removed after September 11 by the Bush admin.
On of the problem I see in LA about illegal immigration is that people complain about having an accident with latinos/asians without a car issurance. Yet, those are probably the same people that vote not to allow illegals to have a driving licence. I think it's a catch 22. One of our worker buys $300 cars. He got into an accident, he abandoned the car and ran away.
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So... I'm the only one here that's ever rented a white cargo van, dressed in a plain, navy jacket, pulled up to a warehouse, jumped out with a bullhorn, and screamed "IMMIGRACION!" just to watch the stampede?
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frenchy... I would agree with GTO... you can stay. I also say that a private pilot who not only understands and speaks english but writes it and is pulling down 3500 a month... that is much different than your typical wetback.
No drivers licence? what would happen to me if I got in a wreck in mexico with no drivers licence or money or insurance? Care to guess?
Produce? who cares....when they raised the minimum wage for farm workers and cut back on illegals everyone moaned about how tomatos would cost 50 bucks apiece...
Noooo... they simply used lasers on the sorters instead of 40 mexicans they now only need 1 or two for the same job.
I think that to work in the U.S. you should be able to speak english passably.
Any illegal requiring emergency medical care should be given it and then stabalized and shipped home to whatever hospital he wants in his country.
lazs
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Originally posted by Glas
Exactly. The only way I think you could deal with this problem is to absolutely hammer any employer who does it, unless they can show that they themselves had been duped.
But that is not going to happen, because despite all the right-wing whines about illegal immigration - the Republican tools we have running the federal government aren't about to do anything to anger the princes of agri-business and low wage service industries.
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Originally posted by Martlet
When I'm President my first order of business will be a national ID card and machine gun posts on the border.
Your first order of business would be to get your permission slip signed from Mom to attend the swearing in ceremony.
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Originally posted by lazs2
Produce? who cares....when they raised the minimum wage for farm workers and cut back on illegals everyone moaned about how tomatos would cost 50 bucks apiece...
We can get our produce from anywhere just like everything else, and it would be cheaper.
Protectionism is still alive in agriculture. It is going to be fun to watch if the WTO can break the farm lobby.
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mz... there is no political party that wants to anger the food producers in this country. klinton was even worse at pandering to em... he exempted them from a myriad of federal usless workers rights and EPA nazi laws.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
mz... there is no political party that wants to anger the food producers in this country. klinton was even worse at pandering to em... he exempted them from a myriad of federal usless workers rights and EPA nazi laws.
lazs
That is true, but the right has been the vocal complainers about this huge problem. They now control the federal government and immigration policy in this country, they should put up or shut up.
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-MZ-
You said "the Republican tools we have running the federal government aren't about to do anything to anger the princes of agri-business and low wage service industries."
Your right they won't but neither will then Democrats. Both sides are all about exploiting cheap labor and trying to get the votes out of these "future voters".
Both parties do exactly the same thing on this issue. Ignore it.
When Americans Die over it, they won't be able to anymore but it is going to take another terrorsit attack to change that.
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"That is true, but the right has been the vocal complainers about this huge problem. They now control the federal government and immigration policy in this country, they should put up or shut up."
The conservitive people of this country are all for it, the conservitive politicians are potatos on this subject just like the dems.
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Originally posted by ra
The last estimate I heard was 20 million.
Isn't that roughly 10% ?
Sounds a little high.
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Here is one of the most moronic features I have seen yet in the U.S. supposedly to combat illegal immigration into our country.
A company I worked for hired illegal Mexican workers on a regualr basis.
On the rare occasions these workers were checked, they would be loaded on a bus and sent back home. The kicker was these guys would nearly always beat the bus back.
:D
One of these guys who had been working for this company for quite some time and saving his money bought a large house and turned it into an apartment building with about 10 to 12 apartments.
He rented to the other illegals. His wife was also illegal and she in turn started running a meal service for the tenants. She did so good at this that she eventualy started a meal delivery service which she did very, very well on.
The husband continued on to invest the money he was making from this into more and more houses , apartments, etc.
He recently sold everything to another illegal and returned home. I understand that he can live out the rest of his life in his country in quite a wealthy fashion.
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Originally posted by Red Tail 444
Your first order of business would be to get your permission slip signed from Mom to attend the swearing in ceremony.
Nah, your mother doesn't make me do that anymore as long as I'm out of the house by the time your dad gets home.
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Originally posted by SFRT - Frenchy
Yeah, I'm managing a roofing company, and two nights a week I'm flying radioactive stuff part 135. I make 3500ish/month (more or less).
What most Americans complaining about immigration don't know is that you need to have a bachelor corresponding to your job to apply for a work permit. For pilot (like me), there is no bachelor required to have your licence, so your request is automatically refused :aok. (Just get leagal just quite doesn't cut it)
You had some kind of clemency, like you have a job as a roofer illegally for so long (no bachelor rrequired), you could still apply for a green card. Alas this was removed after September 11 by the Bush admin.
On of the problem I see in LA about illegal immigration is that people complain about having an accident with latinos/asians without a car issurance. Yet, those are probably the same people that vote not to allow illegals to have a driving licence. I think it's a catch 22. One of our worker buys $300 cars. He got into an accident, he abandoned the car and ran away.
I don't think it's catch 22 at all. If an illegal is caught in the US, they should brand a big "I" on your forehead and take your leg off at the knee, THEN ship you back home.
If your first order of business when coming to a country you want to be a part of is to break the law, I have no use for you.
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Originally posted by patrone
Why dont you just let anyone who joins your Army get a greencard?
And if he gets killed in service, full citezenship to his family?
hehe slavery of 3rd millenia ? :D
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Originally posted by lazs2
well.... most of us have short memories. Citizens used to do this "dirty work" like construction.
It was hard work but it payed well and you could live anywehere from just getting by to upper middle class on the wages of a trades person in trades like.... Painter, carpenter, roofer, sheetrocker/taper, concrete worker, plasterer or mason.
Now those jobs go to crews that make less than $10 an hour and don't speak english.
These were jobs for Americans who didn't have any desire or maybe ability to go to college... A high school graduate could work with his hands and live in the same neighborhood as a manager at a factory or corporataion.
I have nothing again st working hard for cheaper but... it has to be a level playing field... NO benifiets for illegals. They should be charged for visas to work besides.
Jail time for employers who knowingly hired illegals.
lazs
These measures won't work because the capitalist sharks love cheap labor. And they will keep on using it even if it became a risky business.
What can change the situation is the unionization of the "illegal" workers.
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Originally posted by genozaur
These measures won't work because the capitalist sharks love cheap labor. And they will keep on using it even if it became a risky business.
What can change the situation is the unionization of the "illegal" workers.
Could you elaborate on this?
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hmm... so you form a union of illegal workers and then the employers go and fire em or lay em off and go hire wetbacks from the safeway parking lot to replace em cause the union illegals were getting too much money..
Seem easier to simply increase the penalties for hireing illegals.
lazs
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Saw a report the other day about giving illegals legal status if they agree to pay a fine around 1000$. They would also then be responsible for paying tax as well. I agree we need to make it impossible as we can to get in here illegally.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
But who will do all the dirty low paid jobs no one else wants? It's the same in this country. Lots of illegals and legal foreigners doing the dirty low paid jobs we don't want to do.
Have the homeless and legals do those jobs
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Originally posted by Furious
Illegal aliens should not have access to any governmental services or benifits, except emergency (life threatening) health care.
Any illegal alien found gainfully employed in the US should be eligible for a green card, but not welfare type benifits.
...heck, I might go so far as to say an illegal with a job gets to stay and a chronic welfare recipient gets shipped out. A one-for-one swap.
Ok I'll buy into that.
only problem is there are plenty of legals who are here to, and are, milking the welfare system for all its worth.
I think any legal alien should be able to receive 1 year max of welfare benifits while they seek gainful employment.
After that if you have no such employment
A- your on your own swim or drown
B- you get shipped back to wherever you came from
My prefrence would be "B"
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Originally posted by GtoRA2
Cpxxx
This will take a terror attack top change because both the dems and reps look at these ilegals as future voters and dont want to touch it. It will take the deaths of Americans to get them off the dime.
Seems to me we had one of those.
Situation still hasnt changed all that much.
Cept they made it a little tougher to come here legally.
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
Ok I'll buy into that.
only problem is there are plenty of legals who are here to, and are, milking the welfare system for all its worth.
I think any legal alien should be able to receive 1 year max of welfare benifits while they seek gainful employment.
After that if you have no such employment
A- your on your own swim or drown
B- you get shipped back to wherever you came from
My prefrence would be "B"
You can buy into it, but it isn't true.
Illegals have put hospitals out of business.
NJ.com (http://www.nj.com/news/times/index.ssf?/base/news-2/1105261605299220.xml)
Do a simple google search for hospitals shut down due to illegal immigrants. They should be branded and sent packing. The second violation gets them a bullet. They are a drain on our economy.
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Originally posted by Martlet
When I'm President my first order of business will be a national ID card and machine gun posts on the border.
We already have a national ID card.
Its called a social security card.
I'm all for machine guns, so long as we are willing to use them.
I'm also for land mines, and other assorted booby traps. Some spike lined tiger pits wouldnt hurt either.
What we should have done is invade Mexico back in the 1800's during our expansion west.
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What do we do with illegals we catch entering or inside the States?
Death penalty.
Armed borders w/ shoot to kill orders. Make this a very public policy. Th would be crossers must be well aware of the consequences they face.
But who will do all the dirty low paid jobs no one else wants? It's the same in this country. Lots of illegals and legal foreigners doing the dirty low paid jobs we don't want to do.
A convenient but false argument. It's simple: the wages for these jobs would increase, attracting American labor, specifically young adults... teens. Some prices would go up as a result, sure. But the millions of dollars the illegals ship out of the country each year would stop; the American laborors would spend their earnings right here in America. This, coupled with the billions of dollars saved by preventing illegal immigrations, would MORE than offset any price increase.
Illegal aliens should not have access to any governmental services or benifits, except emergency (life threatening) health care.
Umm this is pretty much in effect now, friends. How do the illegals get around this? They go to the emergency room for every ailment, from hangnails to chest colds.
Finally: You mustmake the penalty for hiring illegals so steep that employers no longer see having illegals on the payroll as beneficial.
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Originally posted by Steve
But the millions of dollars the illegals ship out of the country each year would stop;
Actually, that number is in the billions.
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My apologies, Marlet.
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Originally posted by Steve
My apologies, Marlet.
No apology necessary. My intent wasn't to criticize, but to correct. The last figures I saw estimated 15 billion sent to Mexico alone.
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Originally posted by Steve
Death penalty.
Armed borders w/ shoot to kill orders. Make this a very public policy. Th would be crossers must be well aware of the consequences they face.
You gonna shoot the kids the parents drag across the border with them?
I think the answer to the problem is round em up as they come across, train em to be soldiers, then stick em in Iraq.
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Originally posted by Raider179
You gonna shoot the kids the parents drag across the border with them?
I think the answer to the problem is round em up as they come across, train em to be soldiers, then stick em in Iraq.
Nah, if you shoot the parents then the kids stop moving. Then you just chuck them back over the fence.
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Social Security is in trouble because there are not going to be enough working folks to pay for the baby boomers when they retire. What effect do you think 10-20 million workers under 30, if they were legally here and paying into Social Security, would have on our ability to pay for the boomers retirement?
We need younger immigrants to lower the average age of our population, and help make our economy work. They must be here legally however, and thats the rub. How do you do it so that our security is mainained, yet its not so difficult a process that they would rather risk comming illegally?
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Originally posted by Martlet
Nah, if you shoot the parents then the kids stop moving. Then you just chuck them back over the fence.
lol
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Ah yes, the isolationist immigration debate. Machine guns, now that's practicality.
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The immigration system is a mess. The problem is that if you want to go to America to work. You are simply refused unless you have some skill in short supply or a relative sponsors you or you are a refugee of some sort. As a result America is full of people who barely speak English and don't want to and who often come from countries which are often actively hostile to US interests.
The alternative is to apply for a lottery Visa. 50,000 are issued each year in a big draw. You can only apply if you come from a country that has less than 50,000 immigrants in the last year.
It's interesting to note that certain countries are excluded because more the 50,000 emigrants came from these countries. :
CANADA, CHINA (mainland-born), COLOMBIA, DOMINICAN REPUBLIC, EL SALVADOR, HAITI, INDIA, JAMAICA, MEXICO, PAKISTAN, PHILIPPINES, RUSSIA, SOUTH KOREA, UNITED KINGDOM (except Northern Ireland) and its dependent territories, and VIETNAM.
From the State department website. It interesting to the UK in there. All the others except Canada are basically third world countries. How come so many Brits manage to enter the US?
If you don't win a prize visa the only way in to be illegal. That applies to most Europeans, who in the past made up a lot of immigrants. The result is a total distortion of legal immigration. Being illegal is no picnic either. There was a story before Christmas where some Irish guys overstayed their tourist visa. They were arrested, chained and locked up for weeks. They were only released and deported after intervention by the Irish goverment. Meanwhile the southern border is wide open and I doubt if many Mexicans are treated like that.
There are several instances of people been deported without appeal or arrested for trivial stuff at airports. One British guy had failed to pay a speeding fine on his last vist. Next time he arrived he was immediately arrested taken donwtown and locked up. When he paid the fine he was deported immediately. Another Brit, a woman was accused of overstaying by one week on her last visit. She was put in leg irons, held in detention and deported. Meanwhile of course the Mexican border is only protected by a cattle fence.
There was a report on British TV the other night. The reporter talked to South American illegals who told them all they had to do was go to a forger in Texas who supplied them with false Social Security cards and Green cards. Easy. You have to wonder where the INS or the Police or Homeland security are in alll this.
It's nuts. The whole system.
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You gonna shoot the kids the parents drag across the border with them?
Gimme a break, I was being dramatic. But yes, I think we should spend heavily on closing the borders, utterly. I'm fairly sure we could afford to do this with just the money it costs to allow theses same people to live in our country while reducing the odds that terrorists could enter.
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1. Deny the incentives:
All incentives have to be denied and that means the employers must be shot. No getting around it. Line them up and shoot them in public executions held every Saturday in stadiums around the country. They are paraded around the stadium, then shot in the back of the head as the crowd counts down a 30 second clock.
You could charge admission, sell beer and hotdogs at ridiculous prices, book a couple of bands for additional entertainment to make it a fun Saturday afternoon outing for the family.
Only downfall is that the housing industry would collapse faster than a guy with a bullet in the back of his head. No drywall would get hung in the entire country after 2 weeks.
Hmmm. Let me think a little more about it.
2. Deter entry:
Ahhh, this is easy. Set up airport securty checkpoints along the Mexican border - at 10 foot intervals. We have enough people working in airport security around the country now to do it.
Make all people entering the country go through the same joy an 84 year-old, half-blind, arthritic grandmother has to go through to get on a plane to visit her grandchildren one last time before she dies -- until she gets detained and sent to Gitmo for being on the 'no-fly' list.
Crossing the Rio Grande at night was easy... the potential illegal aliens will be so frustrated and angry after waiting in line for hours, then being snarled at by some fat, stupid, over-bearing, bossy, retarded, pompous, arrogant loser in a white shirt carrying a wand... they'll never try to come back again.
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Rolex........Thats truelly classy :D
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yep... the airport security thing got me out of air travel except for emergencies so I am sure that no self respecting mexican would put up with it at the border.
Anyone who would isn't U.S. citizen material anyway.
shooting employers might be a tgad drastic... first offense they should only lose a hand or something.
lazs
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Originally posted by Steve
Gimme a break, I was being dramatic. But yes, I think we should spend heavily on closing the borders, utterly. I'm fairly sure we could afford to do this with just the money it costs to allow theses same people to live in our country while reducing the odds that terrorists could enter.
Well i see 2 options for your boarder
1. you could export your "God given to you" democracy to your neigbours, so they do not need to run anymore
2. Or you can simply act as some other democratic countries (http://sa.nextwish.org/Unsorted/AP%20Photos/Israel-Wall.jpg)
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Originally posted by lada
Well i see 2 options for your boarder
1. you could export your "God given to you" democracy to your neigbours, so they do not need to run anymore
2. Or you can simply act as some other democratic countries (http://sa.nextwish.org/Unsorted/AP%20Photos/Israel-Wall.jpg)
Lada We are not a Democracy. We are a republic. A real one. Not a fake one like the failed Union of Soviet Socalist Republics. That just turned out to be a miserable police state. The reason for every one that can get to the U.S. wanting in here is the other Nations inability to emulate the U.S. You see we are a very unique Country. The European Union is an attempt to copy the United States. I personally don't think they will succeed because of the language and cultural differences but thats another story.
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Originally posted by Raider179
You gonna shoot the kids the parents drag across the border with them?
I think the answer to the problem is round em up as they come across, train em to be soldiers, then stick em in Iraq.
Yup. Shoot em now or shoot em later when they get older
6 of 1, 1/2 dozen of another
better yet. dont even train em. just ship em to Iraq
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Originally posted by hawker238
Ah yes, the isolationist immigration debate. Machine guns, now that's practicality.
no Not isolationist.
I dont think anyone minds em comming here legally.
Its the illegals we object to.
Yes machine guns.
You come to my front door and knock I'll let you in. try sneaking in my window and I catch you and your risking severe bodily harm.
If your sneaking in I consider you an enemy.
Same should go for our borders.
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Originally posted by lada
Well i see 2 options for your boarder
1. you could export your "God given to you" democracy to your neigbours, so they do not need to run anymore
2. Or you can simply act as some other democratic countries (http://sa.nextwish.org/Unsorted/AP%20Photos/Israel-Wall.jpg)
I'll go for either. I said long ago we should just make Mexico a state.
and the Mexican border as it stands now is a threat to our national security so we have reason enough right there.
the Wall idea aint to bad either