Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Flyboy on January 20, 2005, 08:01:41 PM
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does that mean we will now see a horde of turnfighting 38s alla spit5 style? :)
sure hope so, big fat slow targets for me spitty :)
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I'm not sure it will really turn any better, maybe just a bit, but the roll won't be as good.
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if i had a dime for every time someone said "wow a p38, more big slow targets to shoot" .... lets see some creativity folks:rolleyes:
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I'm all for other variants of the P38...
I just don't want more uber planes.
Ki84 started out great. No wep suited me just fine! It was a wonderful ride. Then they boosted the power by 50% (shame) and gave it wep. Tsk.
Now we have the P38, which in this game's flap system is one of the most uber planes (try out looping it!) in the game, and we're going to make faster, better versions of it? Why?
Like I said I'm all for other versions of the P38. But I want the E/F, I want LESSER versions. Not better ones.
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Originally posted by Flyboy
does that mean we will now see a horde of turnfighting 38s alla spit5 style? :)
sure hope so, big fat slow targets for me spitty :)
You'd be amazed at how small that "big fat" girl can get in the right hands.
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Whoa the ki84 has wep now?????????
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I fly the 38 just to make flyboy happy....cause I'm a team player.
Zaphod
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Like I said I'm all for other versions of the P38. But I want the E/F, I want LESSER versions. Not better ones.
We have the L.
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Originally posted by Stang
Whoa the ki84 has wep now?????????
Yes it does. Typical WEP cycle is 90 second of WEP, then 45 seconds to cool down to normal temperature. That short burst of power is very handy. Acceleration is about dead even with the La-7 below 300 mph. Climb is about the same as well. Those elevators are still very heavy at speed, so trim it manually.
It still won't dive beyond 475 mph without the risk of breaking things though.
In the vertical, it is without peer. And, as before it suffers from a low flap deployment speed of 150 mph. That means between 150 and 250 mph, it is vulnerable to the American fighters which can start getting flaps out at much higher speeds.
My regards,
Widewing
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Originally posted by Krusty
Like I said I'm all for other versions of the P38. But I want the E/F, I want LESSER versions. Not better ones.
The G and the J will hardly be uber planes, just like the P-38L isn't an uber plane. It just appears that way in the hands of certain players.
The E model never saw combat, it was only used as a trainer. The P-38G is almost the same as the late block F models that were produced and more than 1082 P-38Gs were flying March by '43 than F models, of which only 527 were produced.
ack-ack
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Originally posted by Widewing
Yes it does. Typical WEP cycle is 90 second of WEP, then 45 seconds to cool down to normal temperature. That short burst of power is very handy. Acceleration is about dead even with the La-7 below 300 mph. Climb is about the same as well. Those elevators are still very heavy at speed, so trim it manually.
It still won't dive beyond 475 mph without the risk of breaking things though.
In the vertical, it is without peer. And, as before it suffers from a low flap deployment speed of 150 mph. That means between 150 and 250 mph, it is vulnerable to the American fighters which can start getting flaps out at much higher speeds.
My regards,
Widewing
Wow, can't believe HTC gave it wep. Too bad I can't fly it for the forseeable future :(
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It got WEP a while ago. :) IIRC performance was toned down from the first version, but with WEP it's a little better overall. Get used to the cooldown time and you have a ludicrously good slow-speed turner which climbs like a rocket, has decent speed, and outmaneuvers most planes in the arena. The forward view is pretty crappy though, and the cannons fire very quickly so shots have to count.
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Actually, the roll rate was slightly reduced. It will still out roll many planes in the game (including spitfire). It's NON-wep engine boost was increased 50% (from 200mm to 300mm) and it's WEP boost is double that of UN-wep (400 or 450mm, can't remember).
It got WAY too much power. I liked the non-wep version because it had these skills but it also had limitations.
Now I see the ki84 as another late war uberplane. I fly it once in a while. Still use it to kill P38s. But just not as fun, now that it's that much more powerful it's just too easy.
Going back to our current P38: Yeah I'd say it's uber. At least in the neighborhood. It has nothing to fear most of the time. It can zoom better than any plane in the game. Better than a G10. Better than an f4u4 (I've fought some recently, I can attest to this). As well as a ki84. All it has to do is pull up over any target, let that target stall and fall down on it. If the target doesn't then it comes down in a perfect place to saddle up (what with having no torque to roll it)
Coupled with the ... uh... "current state of USAAF flaps"... this plane definitely falls into the "uber" class for me.
I just hope the others fly WORSE than it. Might make me fly it more.
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Originally posted by Krusty
I just hope the others fly WORSE than it. Might make me fly it more. [/B]
Doesn't everything, with the possible exception of the J model's top speed, indicate that the new planes will be lesser than the "L"? Certainly the "G" will be.
-Sik
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2 things
1) The 38 is far far far from being uber. It is just one big target in the sky. The only reason the 38 has a decent K/D is because it is used as a ground attacker.(dropping 1000lbers on tanks hardly makes it uber)
2) whats this new 38 got? whats the difference?
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Raider, sikboy...
Most people around here only get enthusiastic about uber planes. And from all the griping that the ki84 wasn't a 480mph jet on steroids (or whatever) it seems that HTC bowed to the pressure. Well with all the pressure to make the new p38s faster, better, tighter turning, fill-in-the-blanks, you tell me why I should be worried ;)
Note: I don't know why HTC nearly doubled the boost on the ki. I just state what it looked like *to me*.
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What it looked like to you Krusty is not the way it is. Pyro could explain it better.
Or you can have a look through all the threads on the topic. I thought it was pretty clear why the Ki got changed.
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The ki-84 we have is just the same plane (FM modeled) as in warbirds. AW's '84 is a bias
btw the Ki-84 SHOULD be faster than '51 @ 5K (and below) with HA-45-21 (or 23)
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Originally posted by Krusty
it seems that HTC bowed to the pressure.
So are you saying that the current model is innacurate, and the previous one was correct?
-Sik
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The only reason the 38 has a decent K/D is because it is used as a ground attacker
huh? i think i can count on one hand how many gvs ive kilt with a P38 per tour. just because thats what you do, doesnt mean we all do that.;)
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Originally posted by killnu
huh? i think i can count on one hand how many gvs ive kilt with a P38 per tour. just because thats what you do, doesnt mean we all do that.;)
lol I can count the number of times I have flown the 38 on one hand. Nice try though Just telling ya what I see in MA and that is 38s doing stuff like dropping bombs on gvs then crashing into trees, suicide crash bombing into CV's. I am sure there are some instances that 38 pilots come out on top but for me when I see one I go after it like a goon. lol Be nice shooting down these fancy new targets I mean planes
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Cool! Afterwards we'll introduce you to your chute, if you can get out in time. :D
Originally posted by Raider179
I am sure there are some instances that 38 pilots come out on top but for me when I see one I go after it like a goon.
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Skuzzy, no easy way of putting that. I know it sounded harsh. Just seemed that way to me. I remember reading almost all the posts at the time. I believe (been a while, not 100%) my impression was that they made the pre-boost version based on an early model of the ki84. The boost was based off of allowed tolerances (because the engines were so unreliable). I really loved that modeling. Don't get me wrong. I know it's gone. I can live with it.
Then from what I remember a lot of people everywhere were griping and moaning that it didn't have WEP or a better engine rating. Heck... the yak doesn't. The zero doesn't. Quite a few planes don't, and they still perform just fine. (<-- that's my opinion). Then after a short but very verbal period on the forums some changes were made to the FM. From what I recall pyro specifically wanted to tweak the roll rate. They also added boost changes. But no real reason was given. From the complete, total, and very vocal uproar, I inferred that you as a group got kinda sick of all the gripin' and moanin' :rofl (I would have) and went with a later rating for the engine.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Skuzzy, no easy way of putting that. I know it sounded harsh. Just seemed that way to me. I remember reading almost all the posts at the time. I believe (been a while, not 100%) my impression was that they made the pre-boost version based on an early model of the ki84. The boost was based off of allowed tolerances (because the engines were so unreliable). I really loved that modeling. Don't get me wrong. I know it's gone. I can live with it.
Then from what I remember a lot of people everywhere were griping and moaning that it didn't have WEP or a better engine rating. Heck... the yak doesn't. The zero doesn't. Quite a few planes don't, and they still perform just fine. (<-- that's my opinion). Then after a short but very verbal period on the forums some changes were made to the FM. From what I recall pyro specifically wanted to tweak the roll rate. They also added boost changes. But no real reason was given. From the complete, total, and very vocal uproar, I inferred that you as a group got kinda sick of all the gripin' and moanin' :rofl (I would have) and went with a later rating for the engine.
In that case I want a spit IX with a later Merlin (maybe a 66) and I want it yesterday, and Spit 5s with the 4x20mm option.
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Krusty, there was some confusion about it. Documentation that was not quite clear, or contridicting. In the end, Pyro determined the initial way the plane was modeled was not right, per documentation (not pilots thoughts, but technical specs).
The noise on the board was just noise on the board.
We have always maintained if a flight model is in error and solid techinical documentation exists to show the error, it will be corrected. Flight models do not change due to noise levels on the board.
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Originally posted by Krusty
Going back to our current P38: Yeah I'd say it's uber. At least in the neighborhood. It has nothing to fear most of the time. It can zoom better than any plane in the game. Better than a G10. Better than an f4u4 (I've fought some recently, I can attest to this). As well as a ki84. All it has to do is pull up over any target, let that target stall and fall down on it. If the target doesn't then it comes down in a perfect place to saddle up (what with having no torque to roll it)
Coupled with the ... uh... "current state of USAAF flaps"... this plane definitely falls into the "uber" class for me.
I just hope the others fly WORSE than it. Might make me fly it more.
As with all planes, it depends on the pilot. Get a newbie or an average pilot in the P-38 and it won't seem so uber to you.
And I have a feeling that it's not the "uberness" of the P-38L that is keeping you from flying it.
ack-ack
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ack-ack? I don't think I understand what you typed.
I fly the P38, sure. I get kills, sure. It can be fun at times, but I know all I have to ever do is nose up and hang on my prop and 99% of all enemy planes will fall behind helplessly. Kinda takes the imperative nature of the fight away. No real threat.
Example: Lately I've been flying the P51B. I don't know this ride well, but it's great because I know that at any given moment I could be shot down -- then when I'm not and when I get the kill it's much more fun owing to the heightened sense and feel of simulated combat.
Nobody wants to zoom around at warp 5 never needing to think. That's why we don't have F-14s in AH. It would just get pointless.
For me the P38 is ... well.. I won't say pointless. It's just not as fun. It's like flying a tempest. No real challenge (*see note).
(*NOTE: to anybody reading, don't gimme that "Oh yeah? Come in the DA and I'll show you a real challenge!!" type'a stuff. Any plane in the right hands is a challenge to fight against. But a p38 vs any other plane is going to lean toward the 38 every time.)
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For me the P38 is ... well.. I won't say pointless. It's just not as fun. It's like flying a tempest. No real challenge
from that statement, it seems you do nothing but BnZ off your perch in it, is that correct? try upping it at a semi capped field, or just getting down and furballing in it, then talk to me about it not being challenging. seems to me, its not the plane that isnt challenging, its the fighting style...
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there are many many more planes that really needed releasing before another P38. Seems HTC is playing it safe and playing to the crowd..
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Originally posted by Krusty
But a p38 vs any other plane is going to lean toward the 38 every time.)
yeah right lol including la7? p51? 190d? g10?
unrealistic but like any other fighter pilot everyone thinks there favorite plane is the best :)
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Originally posted by SELECTOR
there are many many more planes that really needed releasing before another P38. Seems HTC is playing it safe and playing to the crowd..
I disagree actually and I am usually one of the noisy ones about there being a glut of American aircraft.
The P-38G, and the J to a slightly lesser degree, really adds to the number of scenarios and CT setups that can be run with the P-38. The P-38L is just too late war for most such environments. Earlier P-38s, which the P-38G and P-38J-5 (the one I understand we're getting) were a long requested and needed addition.
The problem isn't so much that we have too many American aircraft, it is that we have too many late war American aircraft. Just think, until the F4F and P-40B/E were added late in AH1's existance we had literaly no US fighters from before 1944.
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from that statement, it seems you do nothing but BnZ off your perch in it, is that correct? try upping it at a semi capped field, or just getting down and furballing in it,
See this is why I made my note. I didn't want comments like this.
Let me reply by saying.. Um.. what the hell? How do you infer from my post that all I do is nothing but BnZ? I have made no mention of my flying style whatsoever. Further you imply that I "perch" in it at super high alts. You don't know me killnu. I dont' see how you can make such wild accusations.
Second. I'm not going to up from a semi capped field. Duh. I'm going to up from the one next to it. IF I up from a semi capped field it's going to be in a plane that lifts off well and is ready to fight at 100mph (zero or some such) and not one that needs a long rolling start and lifts of at 130 then needs to build speed.
Third, I have firballed with p38s. And against them. Going back to the "you don't know me" part, you gotta be careful not to trample peoples' feelings by essentially calling them no talent alt dweebs. The p38 turns well enough. With the flaps system it turns better than most. Hell I've even seen many a'38 out turn spitfires with the flaps and rudders that it has. I've done my fair shair of it as well.
So basically with that in mind, does it change anything? Nope. My statement still stands. Take it or leave it. Just don't trash peeps ya don't even know because you disagree with 'em.
Class dismissed.
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hehe, i see ive picked on krusty one too many times in my PJ :)
Dont take it so seriously, you have been parading around the bbs telling the ah comunity of the p38s' greatness trying to cope with why you keep getting knocked down by em, just take a deep breath, hold it.... now release.
The p38 is an enigma for most, lets keep it that way:)
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"you have been parading around the bbs telling the ah comunity of the p38s' greatness trying to cope with why you keep getting knocked down by em"
Ermm.. wha-now? A few posts (all related) and "trying to cope"... Hm-hm... Eilif you know better than that.. Now where's the emoticon where I smack you upside the head? :lol
Ahhh here it is...... no wait.. that's not it.. Fine I'll substitute :p <-- smack you upside the head stand-in icon
For the most part I don't get knocked down by 'em. And those that go after me (or vice versa) usually have a good fight of it coming. I've been behind 'em, in front of 'em. I have what I call a healthy respect for the 38. My previous post tells you why. Best loop/zoom in the game, super flaps.
Edit: Tell the entire community how good it is... Then you P38 drivers will have a hard time out climbing/zooming/looping/turning other P38s once the entire community becomes proficient :rofl
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Originally posted by Krusty
(*NOTE: to anybody reading, don't gimme that "Oh yeah? Come in the DA and I'll show you a real challenge!!" type'a stuff. Any plane in the right hands is a challenge to fight against. But a p38 vs any other plane is going to lean toward the 38 every time.)
Wait, you hold a subscription now?
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See this is why I made my note. I didn't want comments like this.
ok, im failing to see where your note had anything to do with what i posted, but ok.
now then
but I know all I have to ever do is nose up and hang on my prop and 99% of all enemy planes will fall behind helplessly.
this is why i , as you put it, made that wild accusation, that you BnZ from a perch with it, in order to do this, you must have alt and/or E to do this. try to nose up without any alt/E advantage and see if that statement holds true...ill save you the hassle, it wont.
i hope that helps you understand where i came up with that wild accusation.
But a p38 vs any other plane is going to lean toward the 38 every time.)
ive always believed the P38 is a jack of all trades, master of none. what it cant outrun, it can out turn, and what it cant out turn, it can outrun. so, i kinda agree with you on that anyway, well, at least if flown right.;)
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krusty .....get a p38 down low and dirty in a furball , any plane can be an uber bore when you sit on a perch and BnZ , try turnin it with spits and niki's , then tell me how it isnt challenging. 38
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Originally posted by streetstang
You'd be amazed at how small that "big fat" girl can get in the right hands.
I always end up shooting through the empty square...can't they fill that space in with a fuel tank or something?
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38 is far from being an uber plane. Ive seen a lot of people just using it to try and BnZ and the 38 is definately not a good BnZ plane by compressing around 500 mph. The 38 takes time to learn how to turn with spits and la7s. As said before, is you put a noob into a 38, then his 38 will just get shot down over and over. However, if you put a seasoned pilot who has actually taken time to learn to fly the 38 well and turn with other tight turning planes such as spits and la7s. Once you learn how to turn with those planes, then you can consider it uber. However, not many people in the MA are able to get the 38 to turn with spits and la7s.
Canaris
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lol krusty is just trolling