Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: patrone on January 21, 2005, 11:49:19 PM
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Just Finish reading this Book about the German Airborn Invasion of Crete. Everywhere have I heard how big disaster this was to the Germans. But is that really true?
I consider it to be a great succes.
What do you guys think?
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Crete was a huge tactical success for the Axis.
But it was not followed (or preceded) with the seizure of Malta. And that became a prelude to disaster.
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Originally posted by genozaur
Crete was a huge tactical success for the Axis.
But it was not followed (or preceded) with the seizure of Malta. And that became a prelude to disaster.
I agree with you. Yet Hitler abandond the Parachute option, for the rest of the war. This must have been an accomplishment for the Allies? Imagine Parachutes in Ardennes or in Stalingrad?
(maybe not stalingrad, its a to complicated story)
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Originally posted by patrone
I agree with you. Yet Hitler abandond the Parachute option, for the rest of the war. This must have been an accomplishment for the Allies? Imagine Parachutes in Ardennes or in Stalingrad?
(maybe not stalingrad, its a to complicated story)
The strange thing is that the 'parashutists' scare in the high echelons of the Red Army in the summer of 1941 allowed the Germans to capture the Crimean peninsular, a landmass aircraft-carrier.
The Soviet divisions in the Crimea were dispersed
in order to be ready to fend off the enemy marine AND PARACHUTE landings, with the unsufficient force left at Perekop (landstrip "bottleneck" connecting the peninsular to the mainland). So the Manstein army broke through Perekop (which still was not easy).
Urgent reinforcements, including the Primorskaya Army (evacuated from Odessa) under general Petrov, started to arrive too late and had no choice but withdrew to Sevastopol and Kerch region of the Crimea.
The 'abandonement' of PARACUTE after heavy losses on Crete was just one more of multiple mistakes of Der Fuhrer.
:D
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I can not more then agree.
But how the English defence of Crete could fail so fataly as it did, I can not really understand. They knew all about it, when it was going to launch, even where they where landing. They had 4 times as big force. Tanks, cars, trucks.....they lacked but one thing............. Airsupport
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Originally posted by patrone
I can not more then agree.
But how the English defence of Crete could fail so fataly as it did, I can not really understand. They knew all about it, when it was going to launch, even where they where landing. They had 4 times as big force. Tanks, cars, trucks.....they lacked but one thing............. Airsupport
Patrone, search info about "The Art of Winning" by the Russian generalissimo Aleksandr (Alexander) Suvorov. You'll find the answer there.
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Sovarov....lol, like "duck sovarov", sovarov? Think it is a pot with peices of duck covered with dough placed in a oven left to bake for 20 min.....
Just kidding, The guy at Stalingrad or one of the guys?
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Originally posted by patrone
I can not more then agree.
But how the English defence of Crete could fail so fataly as it did, I can not really understand. They knew all about it, when it was going to launch, even where they where landing. They had 4 times as big force. Tanks, cars, trucks.....they lacked but one thing............. Airsupport
And the Jerry Can, not having a simple effective container for fuel during the North Africa campaign was a big problem for the Brits. They lost endless amounts of fuel and time because of it and scavanged the "Jerry Cans" when and where ever they could.
It's always the little things.
....-Gixer
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Freyberg was overly cautious.
There's speculation that he (according to Freyberg's son) was given verbal instructions to not act completely in accordance with intelligence. I doubt this because after being expelled from Greece and the course of the war so far a victory over the Germans in Crete would have made for great propaganda and a morale boost. From post war released 'ultra messages' it seems they Brits knew all about the invasion of Crete.
Check this thread
Ultra Messages Sent to Crete Before the Battle (http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?t=55387&highlight=crete)
Some of the problems the Germans ran into had to do with some paras being dropped too high or getting scattered. For instance, Fallshirm-Jäger-Regiment 3 ended up widely scattered to form effective battle groups and were nearly all killed before they reached the ground.
They had dropped in an area of the countryside containing as many as 15,000 men of the 10th New Zealand Brigade.
Also the Germans lacked suitable transports. After the initial waves of gliders and paras the intention was to re-enforce them with seaborne troops. These mostly consisted of commandeered vessels called 'caiques' (fishing boats dependent on a sail and a small auxiliary engine).
As plans were adapted to the new situation these re-enforcements were delayed and had a best speed of 7 knots. This gave the Royal Navy time to hunt these boats down and sink many, the rest were re-called.
But whatever losses the Germans suffered it was worth it for the to take Crete.
For the Germans, the island of Crete would provide forward base to conduct offensive air and naval operations and to support the ground offensive in Egypt.
Taking Crete would deny the Allies airfields closer to the Ploesti oil fields in Romania.
The Germans averted a real 'disaster' only because of the poor command and show of the commonwealth forces defending Crete. They made one critical mistake after another.
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Crete was a bold move and succeded, - well it was a Phyrric victory.
Axis would have needed Malta as well, but it never got that far.
Although, it was a tad close.
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Crete...!? I thought it was going to be Iran... I better check the News...
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wouldn't hitler have had to have airplanes to drop em out of? Seems he didn't have a lot to spare.
lazs
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Originally posted by patrone
Sovarov....lol, like "duck sovarov", sovarov? Think it is a pot with peices of duck covered with dough placed in a oven left to bake for 20 min.....
Just kidding, The guy at Stalingrad or one of the guys?
The guy who drove Napoleon's generals out of the Northern Italy.
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Originally posted by genozaur
The strange thing is that the 'parashutists' scare in the high echelons of the Red Army in the summer of 1941 allowed the Germans to capture the Crimean peninsular, a landmass aircraft-carrier.
The Soviet divisions in the Crimea were dispersed
in order to be ready to fend off the enemy marine AND PARACHUTE landings, with the unsufficient force left at Perekop (landstrip "bottleneck" connecting the peninsular to the mainland). So the Manstein army broke through Perekop (which still was not easy).
Urgent reinforcements, including the Primorskaya Army (evacuated from Odessa) under general Petrov, started to arrive too late and had no choice but withdrew to Sevastopol and Kerch region of the Crimea.
The 'abandonement' of PARACUTE after heavy losses on Crete was just one more of multiple mistakes of Der Fuhrer.
:D
In the addition to the above-said I can say that
the MERCUR operation (capture of Crete) was a tactical Nazist success which had strategic influence on the initial success of the operation BARBAROSSA. Mercur paved the way for the capture of the Crimea ('landmass aircraft- carrier') by the German army under the command of Manstein, thus allowing the Germans to most effectively provide the air support for their ground operations in the Caucasus.