Aces High Bulletin Board
Help and Support Forums => Help and Training => Topic started by: Saintaw on February 07, 2000, 06:07:00 PM
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Badly needed, that's what I would say in my case...
Having flown with Bee and Lephturn helped me a great deal not to die (or at least take more time...)
Lephturn introduced me to a lot of concepts like E fighting, TnB, extentions, etc...while Bee introduced me to Wingman flying...
I need help in DEFENSIVE maneuvres as for the moment, as soon as I have a faster bandit on my six, I'm toast 98% of the time...
Please someone take me in a corner of the arena and teach me...Or better, HT, get that h2h done plizzzzzz (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/tongue.gif)
PS : to the Rooks over F6 tonight, I hope you enjoyed me making you run (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)...
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Saw/Saintaw
BISHOP'S FINEST FLYING BRICK
DCO 186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
http://www.wardogs.org/ (http://www.wardogs.org/)
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."
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Saintaw, I would be happy to do just that. Unfortuantely right now I am barred from the arena until HTC get's my payment but I will give you any help you want when I get back in. Ask Bee for help on this too, he is from my squad and I think he could help you out. There are many good resources on the web and I would read all I could. Look at the sites on the Warbirds Webring, also search for anything with Warbirds or Airwarrior in it. After reading about a particular move I would recommend practicing them offline until you think you can do them under pressure with someone about to shoot you down at any moment. I find that the best defensive moves are often the simplest. They are harder to foul up. Apart from that, there are many very good pilots much better than me around any one of which could give you some very valuable help. Finally I would say that the best way to fly defense is to never let someone on your 6 if you can help it, have a bag of tricks ready for when they do, but try to keep your nose pointed somewhere in their general direction as much as possible. Once they are on your 6 things get much more difficult.
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It's a good day for flying!
General Chuck Yeager
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Thanks Hollywood,
I will give you a shout if I see you up there...
I am kinda "blue" when it comes to WW2 tactics, and am slowly getting the hand on going in the offensive....
I've Ordered "Shaw's Book" and have read all of Worr's Q&A, as well as most of the WB help pages (Printed most of them...kinda bugs my wife when i bring all those papers in bed (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) )...
As you said, i do my best not to let the guy go in my 6, but as soon as he get's there, I'm toast 100%....
Usualy the tougher for me is when i have a High con (usualy a Pony) attacking me right from above...
I will ask Bee, Lephturn and you as soon as I see one of you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) ...
Cheers,
(http://www.wardogs.org/saw.gif)
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Saw/Saintaw
BISHOP'S FINEST FLYING BRICK
DCO 186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
http://www.wardogs.org/ (http://www.wardogs.org/)
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."
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Saint,
I'd be more than willing to help you out online as well. I am by no means the greatest stick out there but I do know enough to get you "over the hump". I fly Bishops so if you see me online, give me a hollar and we can go through some things.
SkyHound grabbed me online Saturday and asked for a little bit of tutelage and Im pleased to say he said it helped immensly (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Boy if that wasnt good for my ego (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Ding
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I've run some in-formal training with Saint, Bee, PackRat, and a couple of others. I try not to let them blow my ego up too much. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif) As another teacher I know said: "You think I know alot more than I really do." That is very true in every teaching situation I have been in. (I teach technology courses on a contract basis in RL, so I have a bit of experience here.) One of the fun things about the computer industry is that you get to see people you train go on and blow past your level of knowlege in many areas. It is very rewarding, and the same tends to apply here in AH.
The great thing is, I think I learn as much as they do. I enjoy working with others to learn this stuff and teach them. Like many other forms of teaching, it is one of the best way to really learn a subject. I lean different things than they do, but I learn a bunch teaching just the same. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Ya gotta love a win-win situation.
I can't wait for H2H or a training arena. I want to get a bunch together and maybe drag torque and hristo in to work me out in the Hawg. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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Will help in any way I can! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I must say here are the guys I owe the most. Both lephturn and hollywd have increased my survival in the arena a hundredfold. Hats off guys (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
As to saint, well ya know buddy, we fly together and it's incredibly fun... I don't think you realise how much I'm in debt with you... and that's not only roger wilco (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Every time we fly I learn something... and I hope you do to... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) we both get better (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Seeya'll in the virtual skies ...
BEE
ps: 'leph...(rasping inhale of air).... I am your father... (rasping voice)... join me in the dark side... (rasping inhale of air)... together we shall rule the gallaxy... (rasping voice).... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Bee sez: "ps: 'leph...(rasping inhale of air).... I am your father... (rasping voice)... join me in the dark side... (rasping inhale of air)... together we shall rule the gallaxy... (rasping voice).... "
LOL Bee. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I have no problem switching sides to fly with buds, so long as I avoid blasting my squaddies from the sky. Even then, they'll usually either forgive me, or be the ones doing the killing. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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ROFL !
Indeed, The best flight I've had were when i was teaming up with my Belgian buddy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Doing my assignment, and will be up there soon...
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Saw/Saintaw
BISHOP'S FINEST FLYING BRICK
DCO 186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
http://www.wardogs.org/ (http://www.wardogs.org/)
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."
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I'd agree the best way to learn defensive stuff is 1 on 1 or by flying as observer with a good stick (gee, guess that rules me out (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif))...but here is a little general programming for your brain.
The biggest mistakes most folks make when on the defense are as follows ( just my .02 guy's) comments welcomed.
1) Moving to early
2) Using to much E in move
3) Evasives which serve no tactical purpose
4) consecutive moves that cancel out
5) Moves that actually play to bogies
strength
We all see guys (and/or are guilty of these)..Guys start scissors when your 1.2 back and you hose em as they go back and forth...Barrel roll and roll out 400 in front of you (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...325 mph pony pulls 6 g break turn as you barrel in your nikki and cant accelerate away from your hi yoyo.
To me the starting point is Identifying your Goals...
1) stay alive...these are the hard evasives that are a sign you've screwed the pooch earlier..or been bounced etc. These occur with the enemy in or close to gun solution
2) Minimizing moves...these occur in close contact but are to avoid allowing bogie to gain a gun solution.
3) Equalization moves...the purpose here is to level the playing lield
An example...
Bogie comes screaming in from hi 6...barrel roll with full throttle chop to evade..back to wep after (example of 1 above)..he blows thru and goes up to initiate 2nd pass...little slower though now...this time start scissors..he goes for one realizes he's to fast and goes for Hi yoyo to keep some E (move 2)...Split-s at break hoping to extend far enough to reengage (move 3) Obviously lot of hypotheticals here but ideally your worst case is he's where he started with less E and in a perfect world your now co-e and dealing with a simple angles problem.
IMHO what seperates the wolfs from us sheep is the ability to intuitivly string these moves togeather in an efficient manner.
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Verminator, you are right on. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
The reason I mention "not taking thing too seriously", is that generally when somebody gets in a rut they get frustrated and stop having fun. #1 goal for me is to get 'em relaxed and having fun. Once that is accomplished, an excercise such as you mention can really pay off.
Back when I was a WB trainer, I used to get new pilots to fly nothing but the Spit V for two weeks. I used this for gunnery training, as the Spit has great guns, but vey limited ammo. Flying a Spit V for two weeks will get your gunnery percentage up, I guarantee. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) From the looks of things I'm going to be able to use the same exercise here in AH very soon too. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
Another good excercise is to pilot a turn fighter and fly it as a BnZ platform for a couple of weeks. If you think Spits are tough as turnfighters, you'll be blown away how good they can be as BnZ platforms. The general effect of this is to teach a TnB type some energy management techniques, and get him familiar with the limits of his airplane. TnB pilot that learns energy management well is a dangerous adversary indeed!
Anybody else have any good training excercises to suggest?
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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Anybody else have any good training excercises to suggest?
Sure do...have a plane which consistently give you fits? Cant figure out how that lower Stang followed your high yoyo? Then fly the plane that you have problems with. Theres not a better way to learn the weaknesses of each plane than fly it yourself. Some of the planes may even pleasantly surprise you...never knew that with smart flying a Nik could turn with a Spit. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Ding
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Whoopsie.. this post ended up in the wrong thread. Ooops. Oh well, it's still a good topic. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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If anyone needs help on all the thing's you are not suppose to do let me know. I am the PRO in that area.... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Member of the Flying Elvis's, AH's most elite parachute team...
[This message has been edited by Cleaner (edited 02-09-2000).]
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Yes, I have an excellent one I use myself for remembering my E fighting no-no's. Get them in a G10 with gondolas. Never engage unless he is 5-10k below you. In the fight do NOT turn once!! Only rolls in the vertical allowed. Do this for a day or two and other planes will feel like toys when E fighting.
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If your in range, so is the enemy.
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Bah, that's nothing! At least the G10 can climb! Try flying a P47D for a tour, that'll teach you to conserver your energy. <G>
Oh yeah, we don't have a P47D yet. Ok, well an F4U-1C with 2 tanks and don't drop the external fuel tanks... ever, it's about the same. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
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Leph your remark is right on... but can be used for other planes too... (not that much experience with WB).
In the early days of beta 1 I flew exclusively spit... then I changed to flying spit and pony (suggestion by hollywd to teach me some BnZ). This Tour I discovered the 190...I'm decent in it (with proper SA and E-tactics)... point is, I tried spit yesterday (keep in touch with my old love) and waw... what a difference... 190 thought me to be carefull on E and the spit capitalizes on that (beautiful E retention).
Saintaw is a good example of this principle (don't mind saint (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)....). As a WWII beginner he skipped TnB right away (impulse from Leph... evil, evil) and began flying F4u. Then he discovered the nik (both Bnz and TnB) and his kill-ratio skyrocketed.
So good tip for beginners is resist the urge to TnB, fly straight away in a 'difficult' plane (get killed alot) and then go to E-fighting (combination of Tnb and BnZ).
BEE
Nemo impune lacessit
PS: Leph, Evil of you showing saint how to fly that blue rock of yours (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Next time I'm online I'll search the buffer and contact you... would realy love to fly some wing with you again (maybe saint can join too) (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Btw... we should call it the 'Saintaw principle'
Definition: get a blue bird up in the sky... get your bellybutton kicked... keep getting back... fly a nik... K/D ratio WAY UP (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
BEE
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LOL, the Saint principle. Hehehe.
Planes like Big Blue teach you SA and discipline. The SA lesson was the big one Saint needed to learn, and he is starting to now. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif) Although I saw him leading a conga-line of rooks the other day, so maybe an F4U refresher course is in order. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Hopefully my money order will arrive at HTC and I will get fired up for the weekend. I'll look for you guys and we'll do some flyin' together. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
PS. Lephturn's Aerodrome goes online tomorrow. Look for the announcement on this board. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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Lephturn
The Flying Pigs
[This message has been edited by Lephturn (edited 02-09-2000).]
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Will fly this friday and sunday... not sure about saturday but I'll check the roster when I'm online (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
CC on checking the bulletinboard, realy curious... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BEE out
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Originally posted by JENG:
Btw... we should call it the 'Saintaw principle'
Definition: get a blue bird up in the sky... get your bellybutton kicked... keep getting back... fly a nik... K/D ratio WAY UP (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
BEE
...Is this fame ??? (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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Saw/Saintaw
BISHOP'S FINEST FLYING BRICK
DCO 186th Wardogs (Falcon4 Squad)
http://www.wardogs.org/ (http://www.wardogs.org/)
"Firepower Mate, that is what separates the men from the boys..."
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Is this fame ???
More like infamy (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
-Ding
[This message has been edited by Dingy (edited 02-10-2000).]
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Lotta good advice here,
I'll throw a couple of things I keep in my back pocket and refer to from time to time. First a very good WB trainer once told me, "There are no such things as defensive moves, only increasingly desperate offensive moves." When caught in a situation where someone has managed to gain the advantage on me, my first thought is how to get around on this guy and kill him. If I keep a cool head I can often turn the tables and the hunter becomes the hunted.
Now if this guy turn out to be one of the Hotel Sierra pilots out there then I start looking for the door. Face it sometimes in a position of disadvantage there is no way to win. Which brings me to my second piece of advice. "Never run out of altitude, airspeed and ideas all at the same time."
I find that when I start dieing in fights alot is when I become over conservitive. Be smart but stay aggressive. Keep the other guy in fear of his life (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Sharky
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You can run, but you just die tired.