Aces High Bulletin Board

General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: weaselsan on January 23, 2005, 01:53:15 PM

Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: weaselsan on January 23, 2005, 01:53:15 PM
I believe this will be the answer to the problems in the middle east as well as environmental concerns world wide. I hope I live long enough to see the results.

A fuel cell harnesses the electricity created in the chemical reaction that occurs when hydrogen and oxygen are combined. Hundreds of fuel cells are "stacked" together, combining their electrical outputs into enough electricity to power a car.

In the not-too-distant future, fuel cells will change how we live our everyday lives. They will power our vehicles, homes and office buildings more efficiently and with significantly less impact on the environment than fossil fuels. Fuel cell technology could end energy shortages and reduce reliance on imported oil. Before that day comes, however, four important challenges - hydrogen storage, cost reduction, durability and infrastructure development - must be solved. GM is working to solve these problems.

(http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/250/250613/pages/645331/hy-wire.jpg)

The Hy-wire has no internal combustion engine, instrument panel, brake or accelerator pedals – but it does have ample power supplied by a GM fuel cell that runs on hydrogen.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Gunslinger on January 23, 2005, 01:56:42 PM
I think they just need more porn.....really just some good old fasion T&A and all of their liberals will no longer want to sympothize w/ the religious fundamentalist.  This causes a Red Vrs Blue condition wich leads to this great thing we like to call democracy!
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: weaselsan on January 23, 2005, 02:05:42 PM
The lefties would have to change their chants to "no blood for Hydrogen'. No Big Oil to whine about. Big Peanut butter wouldn't sell. The Saudis would have nothing to sell but camels and used Mercedes...think about it.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Thrawn on January 23, 2005, 02:11:30 PM
You would still need energy to create the fuel.  So it would have to be combined with the creation of non-oil using engery sources, such as windmills, nuke plants etc.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Bodhi on January 23, 2005, 02:24:51 PM
no blood for hydrogen.....

:D
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: weaselsan on January 23, 2005, 02:31:10 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Thrawn
You would still need energy to create the fuel.  So it would have to be combined with the creation of non-oil using engery sources, such as windmills, nuke plants etc.


The hydrogen extracted from a gallon of water using a hydrogen generator could drive a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle as far as gasoline vehicles travel today on a gallon of gasoline.
Title: Re: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Gh0stFT on January 23, 2005, 02:42:22 PM
Quote
Originally posted by weaselsan
I believe this will be the answer to the problems in the middle east


what problems? dont tell me the probs there are because of OIL ! lol
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: OIO on January 23, 2005, 02:53:22 PM
vehicles are not the big consumers of fuel.


ships, aircraft, heavy industries....


thing that hopefully will eventually go to non-fossil fuel but if it takes this much effort to get one puny little car running on it, i dont see hydrogen or whatcannit fueling an airliner or cargo ship anytime in the coming century.
Title: Re: Re: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: weaselsan on January 23, 2005, 03:01:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
what problems? dont tell me the probs there are because of OIL ! lol


They are from oil. Oil is the only product that the middle east has. It has used this vast oil revenue to shore up Dictatorships that have caused the World a lot of grief. Saddam didn't use his persian rug profits to build up the worlds fourth largest military. He never invaded Kuwait to get at their Camel Dung reserves.
Without Oil Revenues the middle east will be a safer and saner place.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: rpm on January 23, 2005, 03:02:55 PM
(http://msnbcmedia.msn.com/j/msnbc/Components/Photos/050114/050114_nelsonbillboard_hlg_12p.hlarge.jpg)
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Nashwan on January 23, 2005, 03:08:32 PM
Quote
The hydrogen extracted from a gallon of water using a hydrogen generator could drive a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle as far as gasoline vehicles travel today on a gallon of gasoline.



The only problem is it takes more energy to extract the hydrogen from the water than you get back from the hydrogen.

Hydrogen isn't an energy source, it's an energy transfer or storage mechanism.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lasersailor184 on January 23, 2005, 03:28:28 PM
How many Horsepower does that thing have?



The problem with all these secondary fuel sources is that they do not provide the power that Gas does.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: RedTop on January 23, 2005, 03:30:20 PM
This answer is good to

http://www.calguard.ca.gov/ia/Nukes/XX10-priscilla-blast.jpg
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: weaselsan on January 23, 2005, 03:38:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nashwan
The only problem is it takes more energy to extract the hydrogen from the water than you get back from the hydrogen.

Hydrogen isn't an energy source, it's an energy transfer or storage mechanism.


Heres where nuclear energy comes in...
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: john9001 on January 23, 2005, 04:05:05 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lasersailor184
How many Horsepower does that thing have?



The problem with all these secondary fuel sources is that they do not provide the power that Gas does.


oh yeah. what we need is more POWER, 250 hp is not enough we need 500hp...800hp.. 1000hp to drive to the market AT 35 MPH

HAAARRRGGGHH I GOTS MORE POWER THAN YOUS
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Gh0stFT on January 23, 2005, 04:14:36 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
oh yeah. what we need is more POWER, 250 hp is not enough we need 500hp...800hp.. 1000hp to drive to the market AT 35 MPH

HAAARRRGGGHH I GOTS MORE POWER THAN YOUS


hehe what you then need is the AMERICAN AUTOBAHN (http://www.americanautobahn.com/) !
why else build cars with such HP? ;)
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: weaselsan on January 23, 2005, 04:24:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by john9001
oh yeah. what we need is more POWER, 250 hp is not enough we need 500hp...800hp.. 1000hp to drive to the market AT 35 MPH

HAAARRRGGGHH I GOTS MORE POWER THAN YOUS


Your right 250 HP isn't enough....350 to 400 is just about right. It has something to do with the feeling of being pressed against the back of a leather seat as you accelerate and the sound of the tires breaking loose as you power shift to second...not to mention the envious look of the guy next to you at the stoplight.
If you ain't been there it's hard to describe.

It's a big noodle thing....if you ain't got one you won't understand
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: RedTop on January 23, 2005, 04:45:26 PM
As a former Corvette owner...HP is something that is GREAT. Just about how weasle expalined.

But I do understand the point. 160 to the grocery store wont get ya thru that express lane any faster.:lol
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: weaselsan on January 23, 2005, 04:50:51 PM
Quote
Originally posted by RedTop
As a former Corvette owner...HP is something that is GREAT. Just about how weasle expalined.

But I do understand the point. 160 to the grocery store wont get ya thru that express lane any faster.:lol


I don't drive the Viper to the grocery...I use the navigator..:lol
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lada on January 23, 2005, 05:13:49 PM
Bmw  have everything ready more less.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/TECH/science/03/16/hydrogen.cars/
http://www.detnews.com/2005/autosinsider/0501/05/B01-50829.htm

and if i remember correctly, at the Island, they have public bus's with hydro engine for more that 6 years

Company whitch developed method, how to produce, store and distribute hydro-fuel announced, that they are not going to produce it for end-users, they expect contemporary fuel sellers to buy technology from them. It were announced in some 2003 or 2004 in germany.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Gunslinger on January 23, 2005, 05:39:06 PM
I don't care what you guys say.....I still think porn is the answer!
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lada on January 23, 2005, 05:48:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
I don't care what you guys say.....I still think porn is the answer!


you sound like porn adicted :D

did you ever try to get rid of that ?
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Gunslinger on January 23, 2005, 07:09:06 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lada
you sound like porn adicted :D

did you ever try to get rid of that ?


nope not a porn addict.  I just think anyone that makes a woman dress in head to toe black in the middle of the desert because other men can't control themsleves around an uncovered woman need porn.

you could start gradualy with a magazine called "ankles weekly"
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: rpm on January 23, 2005, 07:31:32 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
nope not a porn addict.  I just think anyone that makes a woman dress in head to toe black in the middle of the desert because other men can't control themsleves around an uncovered woman need porn.

you could start gradualy with a magazine called "ankles weekly"
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Good one, Guns!
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lada on January 24, 2005, 02:54:52 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
nope not a porn addict.  I just think anyone that makes a woman dress in head to toe black in the middle of the desert because other men can't control themsleves around an uncovered woman need porn.

you could start gradualy with a magazine called "ankles weekly"



ahh i guess you have no balls to visit ME, othervise you would know that porn is easy to buy, if you know where.  

Prostitues are common as well. However promiscuity is not fashion overthere.
Title: Re: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Heater on January 24, 2005, 03:04:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by weaselsan
I believe this will be the answer to the problems in the middle east


NUKE!!
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: JB88 on January 24, 2005, 03:06:29 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gunslinger
nope not a porn addict.  I just think anyone that makes a woman dress in head to toe black in the middle of the desert because other men can't control themsleves around an uncovered woman need porn.

you could start gradualy with a magazine called "ankles weekly"





:rofl
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: cpxxx on January 24, 2005, 06:14:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by weaselsan
The hydrogen extracted from a gallon of water using a hydrogen generator could drive a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle as far as gasoline vehicles travel today on a gallon of gasoline.


This would cause problems in the Middle East.  No water it's a desert.  Countries with water would rule the world.

Hmm it rains here a lot!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: cpxxx on January 24, 2005, 06:20:35 AM
On the other hand there is the diesel engine. It pretty much runs on anything. Vegetable oil for one.  People have been running diesels on veggie oil for ages.  We could grow lots of oil. Countries with lots of good land could get rich growing oil.  The power thing would be sorted. Technology always finds a way.
Hmmm this country has lots of fertile land.........
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Staga on January 24, 2005, 06:24:16 AM
We have something like 60000 lakes... Just don't tell GWB about those or he will try to democratize our country :D
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Staga on January 24, 2005, 06:39:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by cpxxx
On the other hand there is the diesel engine. It pretty much runs on anything. Vegetable oil for one.  People have been running diesels on veggie oil for ages.  We could grow lots of oil. Countries with lots of good land could get rich growing oil.  The power thing would be sorted. Technology always finds a way.
Hmmm this country has lots of fertile land.........


We have discussed about why aren't Americans using more diesel cars earlier in this board.
I'd see growing plants for oil-industry being a good way to secure farmers income in US; especially if bio-diesel will cost less than fuel (be it less taxation for diesel or more for fuel).

Modern turbodiesels are powerful engines with boatloads of torque, Volkswagen's 5 liter (302ci) V-10 TurboDiesel (used in VW Touareg) gives 230kW/308hp@4000rpm and 750Nm/550 lb ft @ 2000rpm.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Nilsen on January 24, 2005, 06:44:24 AM
Good idea weasel.

I hate those oil countries. They hold the rest of the world hostage :o
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: T0J0 on January 24, 2005, 07:26:57 AM
Introduce Crack to the middle east, that will give the bored Jihadi something to do instead of design bombs....
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lada on January 24, 2005, 07:41:13 AM
Quote
Originally posted by T0J0
Introduce Crack to the middle east, that will give the bored Jihadi something to do instead of design bombs....


Well it failed as well. Since afghanistan has been vulched, opium export has raised 3x....... but still no results....  i guess this secret mission had to piss off their authors, when Iran announced that their police siezed 180 Tons of narcotics in past year.

ohh well
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lazs2 on January 24, 2005, 08:01:30 AM
lada.. for some reason you still aren't convincing me of what a paradise and fun place to live the middle east is.

As for diesels... we have banks turbo and other modded diesels here that put out maybe 500 hp but... mostly we only use em in pickups.  

HP is fun.   there is nothing wrong with having some fun john.... and no.... a prius is not "peppy" no matter what the dealer told you.

lazs
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lada on January 24, 2005, 08:06:04 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
lada.. for some reason you still aren't convincing me of what a paradise and fun place to live the middle east is.

 


lol i never trough that i could convince you about sutch thing.

But if you consider middle east to be an paradise if you can buy crakc and porn over there, i suggest you  to visit it.  :D
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lazs2 on January 24, 2005, 08:09:59 AM
It looks smelly on TV.

lazs
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Nilsen on January 24, 2005, 08:26:49 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
It looks smelly on TV.

lazs


You should grab your purse and get over there to check it out for yourself

;)


smelly..
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lazs2 on January 24, 2005, 08:41:01 AM
say there are ten place in the world that I can afford to visit before I die....   the middle east is not even up for consideration.

lazs
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lada on January 24, 2005, 08:51:15 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
say there are ten place in the world that I can afford to visit before I die....   the middle east is not even up for consideration.

lazs


sure ... enjoy your fear.

btw whats on the top ?
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: T0J0 on January 24, 2005, 08:52:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lada
Well it failed as well. Since afghanistan has been vulched, opium export has raised 3x....... but still no results....  i guess this secret mission had to piss off their authors, when Iran announced that their police siezed 180 Tons of narcotics in past year.

ohh well


I need help understanding what you replied to me with?! Anyone able to translate effectively the hidden lines of code in ladas reply?

TOJO
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lazs2 on January 24, 2005, 08:56:29 AM
I think Auatralia is on the top right now.   Former soviet satalites and smelly deserts with veiled women and religious fanatics are at the bottom... South America sounds good as does Costa Rica.

lazs
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: jodgi on January 24, 2005, 08:56:45 AM
Mid east problem!?

If we're gonna "dream" a bit... how would the US (or even tiny Norway) be affected if oil went out of style?
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lada on January 24, 2005, 09:04:35 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I think Auatralia is on the top right now.   Former soviet satalites and smelly deserts with veiled women and religious fanatics are at the bottom... South America sounds good as does Costa Rica.

lazs


ahh thats cool i trough you excluded them totaly.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lazs2 on January 24, 2005, 09:07:26 AM
excluded who?  I have to admit... I understand very little of what you say lada.

Many here will politely commend you for trying to speak english.   My personal opinion is that you just sound stupid.   I would save it for ordering food or giving directions to tourists if I were you.

lazs
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lada on January 24, 2005, 09:25:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
excluded who?  I have to admit... I understand very little of what you say lada.

Many here will politely commend you for trying to speak english.   My personal opinion is that you just sound stupid.   I would save it for ordering food or giving directions to tourists if I were you.

lazs


excluded middle eastern countries


thats normal... coz we have pretty cool language. You can say " Dnes je krasny den" as well as  "Den je dnes krasny" and everybody understand.  Both forms are correct.  

No .. realy you arent like me, Since you belive in TV shows and doesnt speak any other language but your native.

actualy nobody here politely commended my english ... all of them were as silly as yours. [mostly from people  who run out of arguments]
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: spitfiremkv on January 24, 2005, 11:46:44 AM
Perk teh hydrogen!
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lazs2 on January 24, 2005, 02:36:55 PM
lada... I haven't seen people run out of arguement so much as just give up trying to understand what it is you are trying to say.

lazs
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: weaselsan on January 24, 2005, 02:48:38 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
I think Auatralia is on the top right now.   Former soviet satalites and smelly deserts with veiled women and religious fanatics are at the bottom... South America sounds good as does Costa Rica.

lazs


To many revolutions going on in South America....been revolting since the 50's...Cuba is great, I went there on a Diving trip... stayed at Marina Hemingway. Funny thing as an American I was treated like a King...Costa Rica is even better Beautiful women and the best Tarpon fishing in the world.

By the way...who in the Hell hijacked my thread :lol
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Monk on January 25, 2005, 11:37:37 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Gh0stFT
hehe what you then need is the AMERICAN AUTOBAHN (http://www.americanautobahn.com/) !
why else build cars with such HP? ;)
Ghost, I don't about you, but this what the autobahn looks like around here.  Those days are gone.
(http://www.spiegel.de/img/0,1020,260362,00.jpg)
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: indy007 on January 25, 2005, 12:11:58 PM
So let me get this straight... Hydrogen is going to solve the Middle East's problems. It's going to do this by a reduction in value of the most prominent resource in the region.

So, in an effort to curb dictators and impose peace, all you have to do is make them poor? I thought those were the conditions which actually created worse situations.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: JB88 on January 25, 2005, 01:01:37 PM
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
So let me get this straight... Hydrogen is going to solve the Middle East's problems. It's going to do this by a reduction in value of the most prominent resource in the region.

So, in an effort to curb dictators and impose peace, all you have to do is make them poor? I thought those were the conditions which actually created worse situations.


oh no.  that would never happen.  we'll build wal-marts for them to work at.

hello?!

lol.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lada on January 25, 2005, 01:21:35 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
lada... I haven't seen people run out of arguement so much as just give up trying to understand what it is you are trying to say.

lazs


well you undestand quite well .... you already said, that you dont care whats true about ME and you will rather stick with TV reports coz you are not interesting in reality.


If you didnt see people run out of arguments i will show you one example?

Try
this (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=140855)  thread and try to answen Gixer`s question ;)

Any i were interesting in your personal believe to see reality and true. You already answered, so thats all i wanted to know.  Feel free to take that link as a joke.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: JB88 on January 25, 2005, 01:28:49 PM
the "other" joke thread (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=140927)

"man's gotta have choices" - mickey, natural born killers.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Nuke33 on January 25, 2005, 01:45:08 PM
Quote
Originally posted by weaselsan
The hydrogen extracted from a gallon of water using a hydrogen generator could drive a hydrogen fuel cell vehicle as far as gasoline vehicles travel today on a gallon of gasoline.


Thats false.. According to Popular Science, a gallon of gasoline contains 2600 times the energy than a gallon of hydrogen.. In addition, even if it was liquid hydrogen kept at a chilled -253C a car could only travel about 250 miles on a tank 2 times the size of a standard gasoline fuel tank.. It takes alot more than one gallon of water to get that much hydrogen in its liquid form..
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lazs2 on January 25, 2005, 02:38:50 PM
lada said... "well you undestand quite well .... you already said, that you dont care whats true about ME and you will rather stick with TV reports coz you are not interesting in reality.


If you didnt see people run out of arguments i will show you one example?

Try
this thread and try to answen Gixer`s question  

Any i were interesting in your personal believe to see reality and true. You already answered, so thats all i wanted to know. Feel free to take that link as a joke."

I will go so far as to ask if ANYONE on this board has any idea of what this guy is telling me or asking me or... hell... what he is even trying to say.

I even went to the link and found a discussion on how good or bad a speech was... If there is some hidden meaning or hidden proof of something.... I sure missed it.   Just looked like opinions to me.   As for the rest...  I don't even know if he means me when he is supposedly quoting me in broken english.

lazs
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: lada on January 25, 2005, 03:10:30 PM
you simply sux at puzzle
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: weaselsan on January 25, 2005, 06:18:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
So let me get this straight... Hydrogen is going to solve the Middle East's problems. It's going to do this by a reduction in value of the most prominent resource in the region.

So, in an effort to curb dictators and impose peace, all you have to do is make them poor? I thought those were the conditions which actually created worse situations.


Make them poor?? They do that themselves. Using that logic we made people in the wood wheel industry poor when we changed to the automobile.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Staga on January 25, 2005, 06:51:49 PM
They can always sell sand.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: weaselsan on January 25, 2005, 07:05:55 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Staga
They can always sell sand.


Makes great non-skid surface when sprinkled on wet paint.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Holden McGroin on January 25, 2005, 11:15:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nuke33
Thats false.. According to Popular Science, a gallon of gasoline contains 2600 times the energy than a gallon of hydrogen..


That's not what he compared... he compared H20 to C8H18.

If you balance out a stoichiometric burn,

2 C8H18 + 25 O2 = 18 H20 + 16 CO2

So there is a 1:9 molecular equivalance.

I need 9 moles of water to balance out 1 mole of C8H18

MW of C8H18 = 66

MW of H20 = 10

so 90 lbs of water has as much Hydrogen as 66 lbs of Gasoline

10.97 Gallons H2O = 66# / 6#/gal = 11 gallons Gasoline.

the 1:1 volumetric equivalence is correct.  Same amount of hydrogen in each.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Holden McGroin on January 25, 2005, 11:17:51 PM
It is also interesting to note that the reason Columbus wanted to sail west to get to the east was to get spices and if you went east, you had to deal with the Arabs.

We have had problems with the middle east since well before the petroleum era.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Nuke33 on January 26, 2005, 12:55:57 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
That's not what he compared... he compared H20 to C8H18.

If you balance out a stoichiometric burn,

2 C8H18 + 25 O2 = 18 H20 + 16 CO2

So there is a 1:9 molecular equivalance.

I need 9 moles of water to balance out 1 mole of C8H18

MW of C8H18 = 66

MW of H20 = 10

so 90 lbs of water has as much Hydrogen as 66 lbs of Gasoline

10.97 Gallons H2O = 66# / 6#/gal = 11 gallons Gasoline.

the 1:1 volumetric equivalence is correct.  Same amount of hydrogen in each.


So are you saying that a gallon of water has the same ammount of stored energy that a gallon of gasoline has? If so, that's great but it doesnt remove the fact that it would require more energy to separate the hydrogen from the oxygen than the hydrogen would produce, or the fact that hydrogen would either have to be pressurized to extreme PSI's (10,000+) or liqufied to be practical fuel for cars.. Both scenarios are fairly impractical or dangerous to begin with..

I think we need Cold Fusion :cool:
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Holden McGroin on January 26, 2005, 01:41:40 AM
Actually I was equating the number of hydrogen atoms in each.

If you stripped the hydrogen from the carbon in the gasoline, and you separated the hydrogen from the oxygen in the water, you would have the same amount of hydrogen.

The amount of energy to electrolyze the water into its constituants would be obviously much higher than the amount of energy required to strip the carbon from the gasoline.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: KBall on January 26, 2005, 01:56:22 AM
And what happens when the fresh water is in such short supply that the water can only be used for drinking? When I was in Kuwait bottled water was more valuable to the locals than gold.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Holden McGroin on January 26, 2005, 02:00:12 AM
reverse osmosis (http://www.searecovery.com/)

all you need is unlimited supplies of energy.

Probably the easiest source available presently is nuclear.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Nuke33 on January 26, 2005, 02:07:51 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
reverse osmosis (http://www.searecovery.com/)

all you need is unlimited supplies of energy.

Probably the easiest source available presently is nuclear.


Speaking of unlimited supplies of energy, I was readin popular science once again, and read an article about a new solar dish. Supposedly an array of 10,000 square miles would supply all of america's electricity needs..

But who's gonna pay for it? Our Guvment loves us some oil and likes to invade people to get to it.. :rolleyes:
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: KBall on January 26, 2005, 02:26:38 AM
Water is not unlimited and nuclear energy is not clean. Look at the mess we have going on in the U.S. right not. Each state is fighting to send its radioactive waste to other states and those states are fighting back. No one wants that waste. And you can't blast it off into space because that 1 flight that blows up out of a hundred would be worse than any natural disaster. The switch to another energy source doesn't solve the problems of obtaining clean energy it creates different problems.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: Holden McGroin on January 26, 2005, 02:57:37 AM
Water is just a medium for conversion of energy.  It is not destroyed.

It is broken down into Hydrogen and Oxygen, and if converted in a fuel cell or burned, the constituant parts are recombined to make water.

Theoretically there is no water use, so the water is unlimited.

The big reason the US nuclear energy industry has waste problem is because Carter outlawed reprocessing as I recall, by executive order.

France and the UK reprocess and that which cannot be reprocessed goes through glass vitrification and is sealed in canisters for geological disposal.

Two billion years ago in west Africa, chain reactions started spontaneously in concentrated deposits of uranium ore. The reactions continued for hundreds of thousands of years forming plutonium and all the highly radioactive waste products created today in a nuclear power reactor. Despite the existence at the time of large quantities of water in the area, these materials stayed where they were formed and eventually decayed into non-radioactive elements.

Nuclear power dams no rivers, creates no greenhouse gasses or acid rain, doesn't chop up fish or birds in spinning turbines...
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: indy007 on January 26, 2005, 07:48:50 AM
Quote
Originally posted by weaselsan
Make them poor?? They do that themselves. Using that logic we made people in the wood wheel industry poor when we changed to the automobile.


Right. I think you missed my point... I'm all for removing our depedence on foreign oil. I think there should be a prize like the Ansari X-Prize, but for hydrogen fuel cell development. The long term benefits to us outweigh the hurdles to get there.

However, the topic of this thread is "Answer to Mid east problems", and I'd like to know how it would solve them. If we flipped a light switch, and were on hydrogen tommorrow, the US could gradually withdraw it's concerns and stay out of the region, leaving it to the UN. The region destabilizes due to a collapsing economy based around the devaluation of oil. Food shortages, civil unrest, etc, etc. Foreign aid goes up even higher. The UN has to send peacekeepers, so, the US military gets back on their boats, and heads back to the Middile East. Now, in addition to being infidels, we're responsible for the poverty of a region in turmoil that also happens to have relatively unstable nuclear powers. The Imams preach to the masses that it's the fault of western countries, as opposed to their inability to keep up in the field of fuel technologies. The next wave of terrorism and Jihad begins.

Like I said, the switch would be great for us, but I seriously doubt it would solve the problems of the Middle East, and would even expect it to make them much worse.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: weaselsan on January 26, 2005, 09:00:16 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Holden McGroin
That's not what he compared... he compared H20 to C8H18.

If you balance out a stoichiometric burn,

2 C8H18 + 25 O2 = 18 H20 + 16 CO2

So there is a 1:9 molecular equivalance.

I need 9 moles of water to balance out 1 mole of C8H18

MW of C8H18 = 66

MW of H20 = 10

so 90 lbs of water has as much Hydrogen as 66 lbs of Gasoline

10.97 Gallons H2O = 66# / 6#/gal = 11 gallons Gasoline.

the 1:1 volumetric equivalence is correct.  Same amount of hydrogen in each.


You tell em ....It's simple.....:rofl
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: weaselsan on January 26, 2005, 09:26:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by indy007
Right. I think you missed my point... I'm all for removing our depedence on foreign oil. I think there should be a prize like the Ansari X-Prize, but for hydrogen fuel cell development. The long term benefits to us outweigh the hurdles to get there.

However, the topic of this thread is "Answer to Mid east problems", and I'd like to know how it would solve them. If we flipped a light switch, and were on hydrogen tommorrow, the US could gradually withdraw it's concerns and stay out of the region, leaving it to the UN. The region destabilizes due to a collapsing economy based around the devaluation of oil. Food shortages, civil unrest, etc, etc. Foreign aid goes up even higher. The UN has to send peacekeepers, so, the US military gets back on their boats, and heads back to the Middile East. Now, in addition to being infidels, we're responsible for the poverty of a region in turmoil that also happens to have relatively unstable nuclear powers. The Imams preach to the masses that it's the fault of western countries, as opposed to their inability to keep up in the field of fuel technologies. The next wave of terrorism and Jihad begins.

Like I said, the switch would be great for us, but I seriously doubt it would solve the problems of the Middle East, and would even expect it to make them much worse.


Nothing we do or don't do will solve the poverty and ignorance in the middle east. It will have to be solved by them. The point of my thread when I said "problems" was to solve our problems in maintaining a stable middle east to allow for the free flow of oil to developed nations that need it . The world can't be served by constant turmoil that threatens the free flow of a product that most nations depend on to maintain healthy economies. The Terrorism that we see today has nothing to do with oil, poverty
lack of education or anything else. It is simply a radical group of religious zealots that want their form of Islam to be world wide. Terrorism is actually not what we are at odds with today. Terrorism is a weapon, not a cause. We are at war with radical Islam...it's just not politically correct to say so. If you tell the truth some world leaders and politicians as a knee jerk reaction scream "RACISM". Until they come to grips with that reality their problems will never be solved.
Title: Answer to Mid east problems
Post by: indy007 on January 26, 2005, 10:46:30 AM
Quote
Originally posted by weaselsan
Nothing we do or don't do will solve the poverty and ignorance in the middle east. It will have to be solved by them. The point of my thread when I said "problems" was to solve our problems in maintaining a stable middle east to allow for the free flow of oil to developed nations that need it . The world can't be served by constant termoil that threatens the free flow of a product that most nations depend on to maintain healthy economies. The Terrorism that we see today has nothing to do with oil, poverty
lack of education or anything else. It is simply a radical group of religious zealots that want their form of Islam to be world wide. Terrorism is actually not what we are at odds with today. Terrorism is a weapon, not a cause. We are at war with radical Islam...it's just not politically correct to say so. If you tell the truth some world leaders and politicians as a knee jerk reaction scream "RACISM". Until they come to grips with that reality their problems will never be solved.


Well said :)