Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: g00b on January 25, 2005, 06:39:44 PM
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When attacking an enemy field this is the correct procedure:
DO
1. Establish air cover.
2. Knock out the VH.
3. Destroy all AAA, don't forget those manned acks!
4. Knock down the town.
5. Call in the troops.
DO NOT
1. Destroy the FH or BH.
2. Pork the fuel.
3. Pork the ord.
4. Pork the troops.
The Do's are pretty self-explanitory. The Do Not's are apparently not so obvious.
1. Destroying the FH and BH should only be a pre-emptive measure against bases that are not currently under attack, to prevent re-inforcements from arriving at the MAIN battle. Given that you must have a successfull CAP ongoing at a field to capture it in the first place, downing the FH and BH is of dubious value. FURTHERMORE: You remove one of the funnest aspects of the game to many people, vulching! Most friendly pilots will NOT stick around an enemy airbase with the FH and BH down, the VH and town up, waiting and praying for bombers and goons to come. They want something to shoot at. They will leave. Also you handicap the field if/when it is successfully taken. To re-iterate, knocking down the FH is one of the most detrimental things you can do trying to capture a base. Both tactically and from a pure fun gameplay aspect.
2. Porking the fuel does nothing to stop a country from upping defensive fighters. Nothing. Only usefull as a pre-emptive measure against bases that are not currently under attack, to prevent re-inforcements from arriving at the MAIN battle.
3. Porking ord is a bit more optional, but once again, if you have local air superiority keeping buffs from upping is easy and fun. Don't hit the ord unless you can't stop the buffs from upping and killing friendly GV's.
4. Don't hit the troops. You handicap your own country from launching successfull blitzkrieg style rolling fronts. Only disable troops if you're on the defensive.
Anyone have any thoughts or comments?
g00b
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Maybe....
let people play for fun the way they like to????
(Radical, i know -- but taking an electronci base on an electronic gameboard so it changes electronic color is fairly meaningless, wouldn't you say? Real people are more important than the AH war, and if they'r e having fun , who really cares?)
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Of course people can play any way they want. I don't really care that much. This really was just for those who are unaware.
However...
If one agrees that the object of the game is to win the war, and that is what they are trying to accomplish, the above is good advice.
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what, this thread again?
oh well....
WHAT ABOUT THE BEAVERS?
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Do people really spend time contemplating the proper etiquette of killing inanimate objects?
Is there a proper method to destroying static objects at undefended bases?
Isn't the objective really just to avoid human v human competition by denying other members the ability to even have fun?
Do folks really need a list of 'dos and don'ts' in this regard?
Here's a 'don't' for you.
Don't waste your time on the stupid stuff, grab your favorite plane, head to the nearest gaggle of enemy and have fun. Maybe you will be less worried about who or who didn't suicide that tool shed.
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Well said, Wotan
:aok
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Gee Wotan, if you were to ask yourself, "Why would I redundantly use an inanimate object such as my computer to have to add my $.02...concerning this thread......."
But then again, so would I. But I'd be more objective, and yes Goob is stating for certain gamers and gameplay what he likes to see (although that hardly happens) :lol
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Goob Ignore the vulchers or so called "furballers" comments. They make their living of us land grabber types and comtribute NOTHING constructive to anything we like to do.
I agree mostly with your idea of things. The barrack killer being our own worse enemy...on an offensive (attacking) strike.:mad:
I'll add 2 other ways.
1) With about 8 to 10 guys go noe and ignore the field all together. Blow the town to crap in 2 to 3 pass then cap meanwhile your goon that set off with you arrives and bingo 1 brand new undamaged field. :aok
2) Have 3 sets of b 24's or 2 sets of Lancs high alt bomb the town only. With the timing right have 2 jabos + goon standing by after "Bombs away". Jabos clear up 5 to 10 remaining builds and goon drops as the jabos finish off. bingo another undamaged brand new field:aok
LYNX.....~SOB~
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Flyboy
Wotan
LePaul
Thanks for adding absolutely nothing to this thread. You all are apparently against any form of organization or strategy. Sucks to be on your team. I'd guess you down FH's for no good reason except to be contrary and piss your teamies off. More power to you.
g00b
oops sry black sheep, my bad
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Well I was for you in the first place.... so WTG on not reading my post
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But thats just ONE WAY TO PLAY the game. So I aint gonna pat you in the back for anything original, and for not reading my post earlier, i might just give a bif when i see you in Rook land :D
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No worries mate - I retract the forthcoming in the MA as well:p
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Originally posted by g00b
If one agrees that the object of the game is to win the war, and that is what they are trying to accomplish, the above is good advice.
And if one doesn't agree?
-Sik
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Isnt the purpose of this game to take bases and win the war. some of the comments in this thread are pretty silly , maybe we should have air starts and all converge on furball island ....Now thats structure, a pointless mind numbing quake with WWII aircraft ........game?
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Originally posted by 38ruk
Isnt the purpose of this game to take bases and win the war. some of the comments in this thread are pretty silly , maybe we should have air starts and all converge on furball island ....Now thats structure, a pointless mind numbing quake with WWII aircraft ........game?
False dilemma.
-Sik
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Then they can do whatever the he** they want. That was my point.
If you grab a buff and fly it an enemy base, you need to make the decision if you want to help your team or not.
If you choose NOT, than nothing I say will make any differance, and no you don't have to tell me how little it means to you. This is for those who are genuinely un-aware.
Either some people are not aware that what they are doing is detrimental to the goals of their countryman or they are doing it malicously(which I doubt very much). So I presume it's mostly that people are unaware. I was simply performing a public service for the people who want to play this game more or less as was intended, which of course includes me.
Is it too much to expect to be able rationally discuss strategy and tactics on the forums?
g00b
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Originally posted by g00b
Is it too much to expect to be able rationally discuss strategy and tactics on the forums?
g00b
You asked for comments. What comments have you received that you do not feel are rational?
-Sik
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Goob your post is a good one and more people should read it, i cant count the number of time i have come to freshly captured base that was a great kick off point for an attack , to find it useless ... i mean totally porked , even the sheep were sheered
38
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"what, this thread again?
oh well...."
^Pointless drivel
"Maybe....
let people play for fun the way they like to????"
^Pointless drivel
"Do people really spend time contemplating the proper etiquette of killing inanimate objects?
Is there a proper method to destroying static objects at undefended bases?
Isn't the objective really just to avoid human v human competition by denying other members the ability to even have fun?
Do folks really need a list of 'dos and don'ts' in this regard?
Here's a 'don't' for you.
Don't waste your time on the stupid stuff, grab your favorite plane, head to the nearest gaggle of enemy and have fun. Maybe you will be less worried about who or who didn't suicide that tool shed."
^Pointless drivel
"And if one doesn't agree? "
^Pointless drivel
Not one of these posts even attempted to provide constructive criticism or comment.
Seriously, read those posts and tell me there was any sort of rational, logical discussion going on.
Yes you have a right to do whatever you want in game or flame me any way you want on these forums and blah blah, blah...
Big f***ing deal. Why bother responding to a post when all you're going to do is thump your chest?
Now... if anyone has a constructive comment or criticism, I'm all ears. Where does radar fit on that list of priorities?
g00b
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goob's 100% correct on this one. Can't count how many fh's i have seen dropped, yet said buffs left the vh/town full up. MUCH easier to cap a field of planes taking off, than gv's rolling.
Here's how I read it.
1.the buff guys are trying to help, but don't understand which target they should be hitting.
2.the buff guys are not any good in fighters, and drop fh's due to their own "lack" of ability 'cause they see the FH's as the most serious threat.
3. the buff guys are just being jerks. they dont' want anybody to have fun, and like ruining everything for everybody else.
Most of the time, I feel the buff guys dropping FH's at capped fields fall into catagory #1.
There ARE some times where killing FH's are a good thing. If you are attacking a field, and tons of nme are upping from a nearby field, drop the FH's at the NEARBY field to prevent them from saving the field you are takin'.
OR, your field is being swarmed, so you drop the FH's of the field they are upin' at and save your field from being took.
OR even, the field you are attacking has a huge amount of enemy taking off, and you don't quite have the #'s to stop them. Let's say you have 10 fighters near/around the field, and 20 bad guys are consistantly taking off. I COULD see that as being the rare case of needing to drop the FH's. This one is a tough call, and I feel the buff guys should ASK as they approach if the FH's should be dropped or not. IF it's needed, drop the vh, THEN go for the FH's. VH is a much greater threat.
Not trying to pass judgment on what you do, or how to spend your $15.00/month. Maybe you just like killing FH's and don't know any better. BUT if you are a buff pilot, and we have #'s over the nme field, don't kill the FH's. If you WANT to help, drop the VH and TOWN. THAT would help out the "War effort" the most.
As far as killing the strat objects, barraks should only be dropped at a field attacking yours, NOT the field you are attacking. Ord shoudl be dropped if you are attcking an enemy field only if the attack is launching from a CV. Add to this... ALSO DROP THE S/B. When attacking from a cv, I put S/B's as high on the list as vh. Prob. higher than ack if the cv is in close.
If you HAVE to blow something up, and the VH is down, why not drop on the town? For the unskilled jaboist's amongst us, it's far easier to blow up a town building. Don't really even need to aim that much.
Mostly, you see new ish guys dropping FH's. Personally, I feel the just don't understand that they are not really helping, and eventually will learn what targets they should be going for.
(edit) radar shoudl be dropped after vh/ack, if you are being "sneaky" and hitting a field noe. otherwise it's not very high on my list of "things to kill"
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Gee Wotan, if you were to ask yourself, "Why would I redundantly use an inanimate object such as my computer to have to add my $.02...concerning this thread......."
These are open forums, not private disussions and as such anyone is capable of offering their '2 cents'. You certainly felt free to offer yours even though the majority of your post (as quoted above) has nothing to do with the topic.
Goob started a thread to 'set things straight'. My questions are directly on topic.
Don't start a discussion in an open forum then demand that everyone who replies should agree with you or with your premise.
Some folks may think they don't need goob to 'set them straight'.
My criticism is constructive and directly on topic. No one needs General Goob to be their strategic planner.
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Whoa! tan!
The first half is my observation and opinion yes, but the second part was to acknowledge Goob's idea, which actually, is a decent method. So I was more to the subject then you say. I'd be interested to hear why an endless gaggle of furballing planes makes better sense :p but to each his own.
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I'd be interested to hear why an endless gaggle of furballing planes makes better sense
Isn't the answer obvious? In the thick of the fight you don't have time to worry about who did or didn't kill that tool shed. I said as much in my reply to the original poster.
But again you stray off topic.
Are you just bored with the 25k climb out in your P-51? Frequent alt-tabbing to make a reply?
If you just want someone to talk to try range channel.
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Whatever makes you feel better. I guess when I say to each his own style, that's off topic.
LOL, with 7000+ posts, you shouldn't be asking ME about someone to talk to :rolleyes:
And thanks for the flame; I expected as much, just with less chest thumping.
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Waiting for that witty retort.... still.... waiting......
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Organization is the key to Goob's post. And nobody is gonna play the way I, you, he, she, it wants. I like to mix it up in the MA. Bombers, Jabo's, vulching, furballing, tanking, spawncamping. If I could only do one, I wouldn't play.
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Goob,
your right on, most organized squads (whatever country) know this, your posting to the carousel crowd. which you will find out to be a waste of time, as they seem to have no respect to anybody that doesn't share there opinion of the game.
but a good post to the new to semi new fliers.
BTW prepared to have this thread hijacked. you will see.
GooB wish u clear skies and steady enemys sir
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I have 7000 posts over 4 years mostly in private forums, I also another 5000 posts as 'batz'. I have close to 2000 in the Kurland Scenario Development threads alone. Not to mention Bob/Okinawa/Slot/Neimen and 3 squad forums etc...
Whatever makes you feel better. I guess when I say to each his own style, that's off topic.
It's not about 'feeling better', You can't seem to follow a point form A to B any better then you can follow a thread.
What's is the point of your replies. We are not friends exchanging bantor just for the heck of it. What's so hard about following the topic.
You made a point to comment about my '2 cents' yet here you are rambling on about nothing, I would guess you are up to about buck .50 and you have said nothing.
Flaming? Chest thumping?
Butch up a little. With your pointless and off topic replies what else am I to think?
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dude 12000 posts in 4 years, 3000 a year, almost 300 a day.
whooooaaaaaa
turn off the computer, and back away from the moniter, thats it deep breathes we can do this.:rolleyes:
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Nice math skills... 300 posts a day? Public school?
wotan = 7044 (4.28 posts per day)
Batzl = 4792 (6.59 posts per day)
See if you can add that up.
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my mistake on the day part, was blown away by 12000+ still dude 10 a day every day is an awful lot.
see goob, it got hijacked but by me.
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For the guys that seriously want to discuss this in hopes for better game play, then I will add my 2 cents.
Goob that list is good, but it takes a keener sense to understand where the battle is and at what point things need to be hit.
DO
1. Establish air cover.
2. Knock out the VH.
3. Destroy all AAA, don't forget those manned acks!
4. Knock down the town.
5. Call in the troops.
DO NOT
1. Destroy the FH or BH.
2. Pork the fuel.
3. Pork the ord.
4. Pork the troops.
Your list is the perfect base capture. Taking a field with it's full capacity to wage against the enme. In AHI this was and easy recipe to make.
Now with change in down times, the fuel mult, and the bigger city this objective is a much more challenging prospect and reward.
So many base captures go through stages, especially ones that just start to happen without any formal leadership or organization. The stages are what many people miss and don't get about AHII which is this new level of complexity that has been nicely added to the game play.
For example...
Many base captures start out as base defense. Then as the defense grows it pushes back the offense to where they are now in defense. It is at this point that two things can happen.
1) The fighters will have enough fuel and ammo to cap
2) They will have to rtb, thus giving the enemy a chance to
reupp.
Lets look at number 2. The fighters will have to rtb, thus giving the enemy a chance to reupp.
At this point, you are left without adequate CAP by all means drop the hangers. Give your cap time to get rearmed and reorganized. At the same time the Attack guys should be switching over to attack rolls and heading back just behind the fighters.
Once the cap has been established, it seems the wise choice would be to concentrate on the VH and City. I lost count of the number of times I have seen goons make it to the city only to get killed 5 mins on station because it was still up.
I think the trick to all of this, might be to look at dropping the Fighter hangers as a last resort. If you start out this way, you might first take into consideration what kind of Cap is there, is it adequate? If so then hit the primary target the VH and then the secondary target the city.
Many times though, a decent defense is put up and the fight may go back and forth creating a great melee that provides hours of fun and fighting. This is the part of the game I really enjoy when the AtoA fights are really raging.
For discussion sake lets classify the stages as follows,
Furballing - The melee between two fields, neither getting close enough to e3stablish a cap and bombers not able to get into drop the Fighter Hangers.
Suppression - dropping the FHrs or establishing a CAP. The two don't go together, unless you like flying around not killing planes. But they do both have their place, time and effectiveness.
Preparation - Dropping the VH, Ack and City.
Domination - Dropping the troops and taking over.
The the ebb and flow between Furballing, Suppression and Preparation are where the bases are won and lost, where game play can thrive or 5uck.
Honestly this game is only as good as the people that are playing it. If everyone is out for themselves or aimlessly dropping bombs then we get the status quo.
If people are just doing things cause they are there to do, while that can't be stopped, it will have an affect on someone’s game and the overall game play.
Now granted this is the Holy Grail of skill and cooperation in the MA. But I have seen dummer things happen.
Also yes there are many other ways to play this game, but this view tries to get all facets of the game involved.
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Originally posted by g00b
Flyboy
Wotan
LePaul
Thanks for adding absolutely nothing to this thread. You all are apparently against any form of organization or strategy. Sucks to be on your team. I'd guess you down FH's for no good reason except to be contrary and piss your teamies off. More power to you.
g00b
oops sry black sheep, my bad
LOL!
Oh my word, he has Shatner Syndrome! He thinks the world revolves around himself!
Dude...step AWAY from the monitor and r-e-l-a-x
Wow.
Heck I just up buffs and hunt down CVs, what the rest of you guys do is your business! (But by all means, when you have 2 fleets, YES, steer them into each other so my work is that much easier!)
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Mars
I think that is the best post I ever read on the subject,
ya should start your own thread with that.
and have it stickified.
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Mars, Very well said and thought out. Nice post.
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Originally posted by g00b
Seriously, read those posts and tell me there was any sort of rational, logical discussion going on.
Expressing an opposing viewpoint is perfectly rational. The viewpoint that your post is predicated on a flawed premise seems well within your original post which asked for comment.
-Sik
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Goob Ignore the vulchers or so called "furballers" comments. They make their living of us land grabber types and comtribute NOTHING constructive to anything we like to do.
I do agree that "furballers" add nothing constructive to what the "land grabbers" do, but would love to see your reasons for why "furballers" make their living off "us land grabbers".
As far as the topic of this thread ... Goob demonstrates a very good plan ... and Mars' input is also right on (its the MAW training).
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If the land grabbers didn't have furballers at their disposal they'd never be able to take a field that had a decent defense... therefore they'd never win the war and collect those holy 20 perks and get to thump their chests about beating up on a country that had half the people flying that they did.
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(its the MAW training).
BINGO!!!!
Thanks Doobs, SFC.
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Just a quick comment. Most of the time I could never consider myself a "furballer" because I lack the SA skills to stay alive long in that kind of environment (ironically enough). It's coming back to me, but its slow going past a certain point. I much prefer 1 on 1, or even 2 on 1. But since I often hunt the fringes of big furballs looking for victi............errrr fights, I suppose you could put me in the "furball" camp.
That doesnt mean I dont jump in to help capture bases. I dont like having my bases taken out from under me any more than the next guy, and in my mind the best defense is a good offense.
So wearing my "landgrabber" hat, I see alot to like in g00b's post. Its organized, efficient, lays out what you should and should not do for people who might otherwise not have a clue. The post from mars also makes alot of sense, and simply helps further define what g00b started.
Putting on the "furballer" hat, my first impression is "who the f*** does this guy think he is?" I'm always glad to help out and play CAP on an enemy base whilst you bomb it into oblivion, but not all day. Drop the darn FH and get it over with so you dont need 20 thousand people flying over the base for the next half hour while you try to get goons in. And who made you God to decide my fun comes from vulching? You expect a Horde to help you take every base, no wonder the ENY limiter is kicking in. Short-sighted plans like this for quickie base grabs make me realize common sense isnt so common after all.
So there's my split personality view. I really think if you went for a middle road you would make alot more people happy and get alot more active participation and less grumbling. But then that may not be your goal. Just my observations.
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Your right Star, this is far from a perfect world for the furballer.
But then this thread didn't really start out as a how do we make better furballs, it was how do we attack a base.
My example was simply from watching good furballs between two bases shift from guys fighting other guys, to making headway in taking the base.
Now in my example the furballing guys actually help take the base by pushing the enemy back to their field. At this point the furballer will expect to take his earned seat at the table and start to enjoy a nice plate of Vulch.
So imagine if you will, you just defended your base from attack, pushed the enemy back to their base and are about to claim your prize (some good clean earned vulches), and guys are upping.
Now in come the guys that drop the FHrs thus denying the furballer the spoils of a great defense turned offense.
Now up to this point 1/26/05, I don't think this was the intention of the FH killers, they just think they are doing their part to win the war and they are, but they are not thinking about who they are stepping on in their rash race to kill the hangers.
A perfect example of this was the capture of 222 last night around 1:00am EST. I came in around 12:30. There was a raging fight between the two fields. Some great furballing. A squaddy of mine said it was going on for a couple of hours. Eventually the 222 defense waned enough to the point where the rest of the country started showing up and the Furball quickly turned into a base capture. Then as the CAP was setting up over the field those dread words to a furballer were spoken… “Last Fighter Hangers Down.” Much to the chagrin of the furballers.
Now could the 222 capture guys have left the hangers up, I think so it was at least 5 to 8 mins before the goon had gotten there and there were plenty of guys to CAP at this point, but no one was thinking Hangers Last. Granted it was a zone base and the attackers were well organized and had the VH and City down with troops on the way before the hangers came back up so I can't get mad at good execution and a well timed base capture. But they could have left the furballers finish their part by providing CAP and allow them to enjoy their spoils. Thus the FHrs last mentality would have afforded this.
But yes what does any of this do for the furballer? It at least considers their involvement in the attack scenario and points out where the Base Capture guys are rubbing the Furballers the wrong way and creating the frustration we see some times on Range and chan 200.
Funny enough, after this fight was squashed there really wasn't any thing materializing to replace it unfortunately. The strat guys just moved on to another base while we were left with no furball to move to.
So six of us ended up going into the DA for a bunch of 3vs3, if we had 4Vs4 we could have done 2vs2 with tail gunners, that would have been a blast, but we didn't get to it. I guess my point here is, with the current strat game and the MA weighted towards base capture the furballers will always have to feed off of the scraps the MA provides, so maps with closer bases, countries with intelligent bombing strategies and guys thinking before dropping can actually increase the fun for everyone, while still accomplishing their goals as well.
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great posts mars.
"last flight hanger down"...at that point, i pack up my things and move along to next big red dot on map. i hate those words. bah.
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I do agree that "furballers" add nothing constructive to what the "land grabbers" do, but would love to see your reasons for why "furballers" make their living off "us land grabbers".
I really ment to say " Add nothing constructive to the post" but none the less, the way it's worded stands true.
Most furballers work alone and fly to where the so called "action" is. Typically they see 5+ guys headed to an enemy field so they eventually tag along. (They won't bother to notice if it's a noe raid) The opposing fuballers see the DAR BAR.. " got to be incoming action"! Our side see's more guys headed to said field and more and more go to the action. opposing side see's more incoming a bigger DAR BAR...etc etc. Untill 1 big furball errupts or termed another way a "Cluster ****".
The ONLY time you will ever see an instant furball break out is when it's a brand new map. I'll guarranty that the 2 closist opposing fields is where that fight will be.
If they earnt their own living you would read statements
like "I'm starting a furball at base #" or " furball mission posted"
:rofl
LYNX.....~SOB~
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Nice post mars. Note that previously I was not arguing against either you or g00b, just trying to present the alternate point of view.
That said, I dont think everyone looks at vulching, even in the scenario you described, as their "reward", or anything remotely like it. At least I dont. If you are trying to take a base and want to leave the FH up for whatever reason, fine. I'll help, and I'll vulch the f*** outta them while you bring in troops. But I aint gonna do it forever. Vulching isnt fun, its work. CAP isnt fun, its work.
Give me open sky between the bases, a small handful of red icons co-alt or lower, and a couple of guys to wing with. I prefer to actively hunt my kills and work for them, I get much more satisfaction from them than I do from vulching some poor sap that had less chance of getting in the air than a quadraplegic has of scratching his nuts by himself.
Oh, and just to add one bit of constructive comment in all this drivel of mine. If you design the mission, and you dont want the FH's dropped, you better not only say so up front, you better be telling everyone on Range channel too. Dont get mad if people dont follow your directives if you keep them to yourself. That includes people who arent in your mission to take base X. And while you may have reason from time to time to question the sanity and/or intelligence of some of the guys around you, if you ask politely they will usually follow your directives. Start issuing orders to guys who arent even in the mission, some of them will do the opposite just to be a pain.
Again, just my $0.02. And thats about what its worth too. lol
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Note that previously I was not arguing against either you or g00b, just trying to present the alternate point of view.
Thanks, rgr that I got that feeling.
I'm glad you brought it up though, because I am primarily a furballer but from my time in the MAW I do understand and can and have, base captured with the best of them. MAW.
If given a choice I would love to be able to log in and always find a big never ending hornets nest to join in and fight.
That said, I dont think everyone looks at vulching, even in the scenario you described, as their "reward", or anything remotely like it.
Nor do I... but
As I see it, and as always this is only one view...
The hornets nests are few and far between, mainly because people are taking the bases which feed the melee. So accepting that this will not change, nor should it, because the MA is not a dedicated furball arena (hint, hint) :D, then as furballers we have to reinvent ourselves and take advantage of the furballs the open up and hope to maximize their enjoyment so long as they last (which is completely dictated by the Base Cap guys).
That is what led me to the Vulch as the natural progression from the Furball stage to the Supression stage. There is always a bit of frustration on behalf of the furballers because it signals the end of the furball. Now naturally for all those die hard guys, not that I have met any, they might turn around right there and not participate in CAP. Me on the other hand, hell, I'm not going home unless I am outa ammo or fuel or sent home. So if the furball ends up over the enemy base, yeah I am vulching their tulips lol. So with that in mind I do see the Vulch and CAP as the natural progression from Furball to Supression.
Now do I up into a furball with the intention of vulching? No, I up with the intention of joining a good fight, but do I realize that the majority of furballs ( At least the ones I have been in) end up down the path I described in my first post.
Oh, and just to add one bit of constructive comment in all this drivel of mine. If you design the mission, and you dont want the FH's dropped, you better not only say so up front
Honestly the point of my posts have been to try and get people not to have to be told or to ask what they have to do, but to be able to approach a field, surmise the situation and make a judgement on what should be dropped, based on what I call FHrs Last Resort approach.
Again I don't expect everyone to accept this approach but if even a few furballs are extended or at least when the Furball swithces to Supression stage if one guy leaves the hangers up so that the fighter guys get to add their part by CAPing then it was worth it.
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"Expressing an opposing viewpoint is perfectly rational. The viewpoint that your post is predicated on a flawed premise seems well within your original post which asked for comment.
-Sik"
In this case my "flawed premise" was that all folks play this game to "win the war". Well whoop-de-doo. Why bother replying to a post when all you'r going to do is point out that poeple have free will.
You could say what you said to anyone expressing any viewpoint on these forums.
Example:
Someones random comment:
We need more goon drivers!
Your responce:
What if I don't want to?
Someones random comment:
Lets try harder to get the town down.
Your responce:
What if I don't want to?
Someones random comment:
We need more fighters.
Your responce:
What if I don't want to?
Do you see what I'm getting at? Of course you are free to disagree. But simply pointing that out at every opportunity is not only useless, it's extremely annoying. How old are you?
g00b
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Originally posted by g00b
Why bother replying to a post when all you'r going to do is point out that poeple have free will.
Not mearly free will, but rather, and objective other than they one you propose.
-Sik
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Originally posted by LYNX
I do agree that "furballers" add nothing constructive to what the "land grabbers" do, but would love to see your reasons for why "furballers" make their living off "us land grabbers".
I really ment to say " Add nothing constructive to the post" but none the less, the way it's worded stands true.
Most furballers work alone and fly to where the so called "action" is. Typically they see 5+ guys headed to an enemy field so they eventually tag along. (They won't bother to notice if it's a noe raid) The opposing fuballers see the DAR BAR.. " got to be incoming action"! Our side see's more guys headed to said field and more and more go to the action. opposing side see's more incoming a bigger DAR BAR...etc etc. Untill 1 big furball errupts or termed another way a "Cluster ****".
The ONLY time you will ever see an instant furball break out is when it's a brand new map. I'll guarranty that the 2 closist opposing fields is where that fight will be.
If they earnt their own living you would read statements
like "I'm starting a furball at base #" or " furball mission posted"
:rofl
LYNX.....~SOB~
I have to agree with the ... :rofl ... it is quite obvious that you have no clue as to what makes up a "furballer", what constitutes a "furball", and how "furballs" are generated.
Carry on with your delusions.
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Mars01
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In this case my "flawed premise" was that all folks play this game to "win the war". Well whoop-de-doo. Why bother replying to a post when all you'r going to do is point out that poeple have free will.
Actually the flawed premise is thinking anyone needed you to 'set them straight' in the first place. It's just as likely folks know all there is to know about base attack and they just don't care.
The premise of this post makes no allowance for that and thus it's flawed. Pointing that out is rational and reasonable. Offering a contrasting view is rational and reasonable.
What's irrational is making a post on an open forum then chastising anyone who doesn't post in agreement with your point or your premise.
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Wotan -
Sometimes people post Headlines to grab attention to an otherwise overlooked or heated topic. Unless you just take every comment the wrong way, try it with a grain of salt. The way you put things sounds like you're more interested in rebutting the headline instead of the actual topic.
Quote: Offering a contrasting view is rational and reasonable.
Yes it is, but you fell short of that mark just like I did :)
However, I'm the type that stays objective to all threads, and I tend to chime in when I feel opinions are IMO misconstrued. And thats a rare occasion.
But what makes you think I fly my pony at 25k anyways. Are you shadowing me?
Back to the real discussion please...
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A "contrasting view" would be more along the lines of suggesting alternative methods of base capture. Not simply saying that I have "flawed premise" because I presuppose that at least some of the people reading my post want to play the game more or less as intended by the creators.
You are picking at straws and arguing semantics. Completely useless. What have you added to this thread? Nothing. You have not offered one piece of information that that's really relevant to the topic at hand, or might help anyone to enjoy this game more. All you are doing is being contrary and trying to form some sort of argument when there is none.
If you want to "stay on topic" as you claim you are I suggest your next post has at least something to do with base capture.
If you have nothing usefull to say...
g00b
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The topic of this thread isn't 'base caputure' it's:
Lets get this straight...
My reply:
Do people really spend time contemplating the proper etiquette of killing inanimate objects?
Is there a proper method to destroying static objects at undefended bases?
Isn't the objective really just to avoid human v human competition by denying other members the ability to even have fun?
Do folks really need a list of 'dos and don'ts' in this regard?
Here's a 'don't' for you.
Don't waste your time on the stupid stuff, grab your favorite plane, head to the nearest gaggle of enemy and have fun. Maybe you will be less worried about who or who didn't suicide that tool shed.
I know it maybe a lot to digest but there's a point in there and yes its directly on topic. Its mixed with sarcasm so you may need to think about it.
For the extraneous stuff thank your buddy for avoiding the topic. He wants to talk about anything but...
Black Sheep,
As I said I am not your buddy here exchanging friendly banter. My only replies to you follow posts by you directed toward me. Of my 12000 posts, excluding the 4 or 5 in this thread, I don't think I ever replied to you, hell I don't recall reading anything by you except in this post.
You offer some nonsense about folks '2 cents' yet as I said you are approaching 2 dollars and haven't said much of anything. If you just want some to talk with find a chat room.
As for you being at 25k I know your squad and have called them on it before. Instead of a double hijack why don't you use the search function and look up those old threads.
Regards,
Wotan mit uns...
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Consideration of the subject matter is vastly underrated, regardless on how you look at it.
I mean who cares if the rabbit went in the hole, at least he is not in the garden. So basically both sides are involved in a win-win scenario.
Hip Hip Harayyyyyyy!
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Wotan sorry that your feelings are hurt. Apparently all you want to do is invoke your opinions now as to 'what Goob means'. Your 'opinion' on the matter may matter to some, but next time, try to be a little more subjective and less sensitive. :rolleyes: Apparently most other people here are 'getting it'.
As far as 'being my friend'. You don't hurt my feelings any. You keep coming back to the thread that I want to contribute to. You don't have to; but you DO. It's almost like you want to be more than friends....I don't swing that way, sorry. Get over yourself.
As far a squads go, you managed to drag something irrelevant into this because you couldn't think of anything else better to say? How pathetic. Are you 14 yrs old? I read the boards more than I reply because I mostly respect the amount of knowledge that some of you possess about the game and all things aviation. But this childish rant is very unbecoming of you. If you feel the need to 'call us out' whatever that means, then do so and quit posting horsecrap. :rolleyes:
Sorry to Goob and others for the hijack
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Wotan sorry that your feelings are hurt. Apparently all you want to do is invoke your opinions now as to 'what Goob means'. Your 'opinion' on the matter may matter to some, but next time, try to be a little more subjective and less sensitive. Apparently most other people here are 'getting it'.
I am neither hurt nor affected in any way by anything you have said. Again this an open forum. You are free to reject my opinion or any opinion you don't agree with but you don't control what opinions get expressed.
No one held a gun to your head and forced you to read or respond to my post. You did that voluntarily. As I said I don't recall I single reply by me to any post you have made outside this thread. You put yourself in the conversation. I think I gave you enough room to make any comprehendable point you wish to make.
As far as 'being my friend'. You don't hurt my feelings any. You keep coming back to the thread that I want to contribute to. You don't have to; but you DO. It's almost like you want to be more than friends....I don't swing that way, sorry. Get over yourself.
That's not my point at all. You seem to have things you want to discuss with me. You began our conversation. My posts that followed were an attempt to understand why or what your point is.
You add something about '2 cents' then rambled on about nothing. Since then it's been back and forth and I still have no idea what it is you want of me.
Since I don't know you at all and you don't know me what's the point? I am completely indifferent about you except as it relates to understanding the reasons behind your attempt at conversation.
We have no commonality, no reason for banter, nothing at all to discuss..
If you would just say whatever it is you want to say without all the other nonsense the conversation would have been long over.
As far a squads go, you managed to drag something irrelevant into this because you couldn't think of anything else better to say? How pathetic. Are you 14 yrs old? I read the boards more than I reply because I mostly respect the amount of knowledge that some of you possess about the game and all things aviation. But this childish rant is very unbecoming of you. If you feel the need to 'call us out' whatever that means, then do so and quit posting horsecrap.
No you asked the question:
But what makes you think I fly my pony at 25k anyways. Are you shadowing me?
I gave you an honest answer. I am not responsible how that makes you feel.
I suggested that you search the old threads. You will see what that means.
Now if there's anything of value you want to say, you can start a new thread or email me
jg53 AT 4jg53.netprism DOT net
or post on my squad forum:
4./JG 53 'Pik As' (http://4jg53.netprism.net/phpBB/index.php)
I will check back on this thread but if you don't anything to say other then "You are mean and opinionated" I see no point in dragging this out.
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I didn't read all of this thread but I am going to respond anyways.
I flew with JG2 under Wotan in years past and I have nothing but extreme admiration for him, his knowledge, and his resolve.
He is not only well versed in historical minutiae but also extremely articulate if you could not tell already.
Although I no longer am currently playing the game, my respect for him as CO is unparalled. Sorry Bluedog, Tachel.
Typically under Wotan we would up fighters and attack a base where enemy fighters were at. We were a little more aggressive and more proactive and would attack them at the base the upped.
But also as equal, we would up from a safe base to defend another of our bases that was under attack. It's fun to come with alt when the attackers are low over one of your own bases.
On occasion we would also up heavy, especially when a horde was attacking one or multiple of our bases (think pizza map) and then we would attack strat targets, e.g. fuel, ammo. Then we would return to fighting again, as we were just preventing the horde base taking, not necessarily taking part of one.
I think it's silly to attack Wotan for his comments simply because he disagrees with your comments.
Last parting thought...Hiya Laz, Moot, Ely, Misfit, ExtremeJ, Scot.
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I'll chalk it up as a difference of opinions then. It was my intent to defend the topic at hand, and I can see how the headline would come across to a few as pushy. It's amazing how far some will go to defend thier position on something as trivial as this. I am surprised by my own interest. But I don't see articulation in any form as a substitute for simple etiquette, especially around here.
Wotan - you can contact Midnight if you are interested in sqdr. duels etc. I was not the one that initially mentioned our squad from the getgo.
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Ok here go's, I didn't have enuf time to read all of the squabling going on in this post but I can give a repy to the topic.
From a bomber lovers point of view it depends on how close the goon is imop.
If I hit the fighter hangers befor the main foece gets there then it gives the fighters time to get there and establish a cap. FH and BH up in 15 min's anyway.
I usualy will bomb FH's if it looks like we are loseing cap thus helping provide time for more fighters to arive to keep cap.
I will always bomb VH when I'm not lined up for the FH's. Unless we have a really good cap.
If the goon is close enuf I will bomb town in order for the goon to drop troops. note this requires good communication by players in the area.
I never or hardly ever bomb barracks when trying to capture a base. If I go for barracks it is in a P51B with the 500 pounders loaded at 15 to 20K diveing on a base that is not being attacked by friendly forces to stop the nmy from takeing our bases.
I don't bother with ord unless we have a CV off shore ore we have lots of GV's trying for the town/field.
Fuel...... Whats the point anymore I can only knock out their drop tanks and this really is no good. Furballers got their way with that.
So in short you better let me know there is a goon near by or the FH's Are going down and screw the vulches. unless there are obviously enuf #'s to handle the uping fighters.;)
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Originally posted by Flayed1
Fuel...... Whats the point anymore I can only knock out their drop tanks and this really is no good. Furballers got their way with that.
Every good furballer knows that the key to winning in a furball, is to fly in it with 100% fuel load. ;)