Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Dune on January 25, 2005, 10:14:44 PM
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http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6866567/
By Tom Curry
National affairs writer
MSNBC
Updated: 4:55 p.m. ET Jan. 25, 2005WASHINGTON - The growth in mandatory federal spending, driven by the inexorable aging of the American population, means that well over half of all federal spending will go to entitlement programs for the elderly by 2015, Congressional Budget Office director Douglas Holtz-Eakin said Tuesday as he released a report giving his agency’s forecast for the next 10 years
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See, people have obtained a new healthy lifestyle full of vitamins. They live to be over 100 only surviving because of drugs and the like. They can not live without these items. Nor are they fully functional.
But the way I see it, if you don't kick out at 70, you aren't trying hard enough.
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(http://www.snowcrest.net/fox/loganpics/movie/a6more/FrancisLogan.jpg)
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Before we start lining up for the dirt nap, can we define "old people"?
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Originally posted by Sandman
Before we start lining up for the dirt nap, can we define "old people"?
You are at the front of the line mister :p
Karaya
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Originally posted by Sandman
Before we start lining up for the dirt nap, can we define "old people"?
If you have to ask, please report to the Euthanas...err, Information Officer.
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In some cases, I agree... I've seen too many 70, 80, 90, and even one 100 year old receive permanent feeding tubes inserted to extend their lives.
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some of us old people are armed.
lazs
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what about cut down social security and make it mandatory for children to take care of their own parents.
Do you mind to support your parents ?
Would you rather give money to your goverment or to your parents ?
Do you have enough money to take care of them, if you will have smaller taxes ?
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Originally posted by Sandman
Before we start lining up for the dirt nap, can we define "old people"?
Hajo
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Originally posted by Shamus
Hajo
LMFAO!!
Karaya
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lada... most of the people in the states of todays generations do not know who one or both of their parents are. Some of us do not belong to the social security system.
lazs
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
I'd hit the bottom right. :cool:
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Originally posted by lazs2
lada... most of the people in the states of todays generations do not know who one or both of their parents are. Some of us do not belong to the social security system.
lazs
You may be right. Only the two kids I have here at home know Im their father.
The other ones think the guy married to their mom is.
thats ok. Those guys also think they are their father too.:)
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Originally posted by lazs2
lada... most of the people in the states of todays generations do not know who one or both of their parents are. Some of us do not belong to the social security system.
lazs
well they dont have fathers/mothers name in birth ID (im sure you call that paper by diferent name :D )?
its hard to belive since most of people over there seems to be pretty pious.
I dont thik that majority of people belongs to group whitch you mentioned.
However my question were more less for local folk. Sort of rude personal question :)
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Originally posted by DREDIOCK
You may be right. Only the two kids I have here at home know Im their father.
The other ones think the guy married to their mom is.
thats ok. Those guys also think they are their father too.:)
you should rename to CUCKOO :D
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"what about cut down social security and make it mandatory for children to take care of their own parents. "
Um..how about..NO. I'll try to be nice and simply put it this way: That's about the single worst idea I've ever seen on this BBS.
There are two basic problems with our current system:
First of all, many people are kept alive even after they've degenerated into nothing more than semi-human poop manufacturing machines. What is the POINT of force feeding (via tube) someone who can't get out of bed, can't think due to alzheimers, and has 0 quality of life? Keeping someone in that condition alive isn't "life", it's torture. They might not know what's going on, but believe me, their screams of pain are real enough after they've torn out their feeding tube for the fourth time because they don't know any better.
Of course, nursing homes and hospitals and such benefit massively from these kinds of long-term residents. Hence they'd fight and and all efforts to stop pointlessly prolonging people's lives.
Second, the entire health care indistry is in dire need of strict price regulation. Check out the annual price of a typical nursing home, and compare it to the average income of your typical working individual. Prescription medication costs are out of control (largely due to pointless advertising which needs to be banned). This is the problem the still-functional elderly have to live with and why the "graying" population will wreck the economy....they lose their entire life savings in a matter of months due to rampant costs.
J_A_B
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I say we kill off all males under 35 and make sex slaves of their women....
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Originally posted by weaselsan
I say we kill off all males under 35 and make sex slaves of their women....
And Weaselsan gets his own mother :)
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(http://www.wikco.com/avp1.jpg)
Form the lines....
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Not only are some of the folks in their second half century armed, they are experianced and would be damned hard to kill.
JAB, interesting point. It reminds me of another position that was stated and implemented over 60 years ago. I believe it was a plan to rid the society of defectives and support a "master race". Are you postulating such a thing again?
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Just a ref (http://www.gen.cam.ac.uk/sens/index.html)
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Didn't Aristotle envision herding off and eliminating the population's ballast too?
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"JAB, interesting point. It reminds me of another position that was stated and implemented over 60 years ago. I believe it was a plan to rid the society of defectives and support a "master race". Are you postulating such a thing again?"
How cliche, the oh-so-common "I'm not really commenting on your suggestion but I'll call you Hitler anyway" post. I know you're smarter than that, come up with something original.
I'm not advocating killing anybody. I'm advocating letting nature take its course with people who are completely incapacitated mentally and physically. Such people are currently kept alive in a life of torture and pain for no reason except the financial benefit of the facility they live in. Even the blubbering Alzheimer's patients who no longer know what food is, much less how to feed themselves, still feel pain and suffering.
The real Hitlers are the people who want these patients artifically kept alive (or more accurately, half alive because that's no life) just so the health care industry can make more profit. No better are the sad and pathetic people who can't say goodbye to their loved ones and would rather see them...linger...in such a condition.
I sincerely HOPE nobody lets me linger like that, ever. I worked around such cases, I know what it's like.
J_A_B
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Jab,
I did not call you hitler. I merely pointed out the relevant historical precedent for what you postulate. Your second post confirms the relationship.
"Letting nature take it's course" is exactly the same situation. One of the points of a civilization is how they treat those who cannot care for themselves. Exactly where in your utopia does it start? Should we innitiate a screening for defective fetal situations and eliminate them? What is the criteria for cutting the support off?
Do we establish an age where we start culling the population? What age? Do you want a medical criteria? What is the borderline level? What factors are the determining ones? Are they physical, mental or emotional.
Lastly who determines the need for this type of process?
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Originally posted by moot
Didn't Aristotle envision herding off and eliminating the population's ballast too?
Might have been Plato and Socrate's in Plato's "The Republic".
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""Letting nature take it's course" is exactly the same situation."
Um...gassing 6 million Jews was not natural and was by no means "exactly the same". That was sick and twisted. Letting someone die a natural death when their body gives out instead of force-feeding them....well that is by definition natural. I don't see how you could even compare the two, unless you monumentally mis-understand what I said.
You talk about civilization. Tell me, how "civilized" is it to keep someone alive in a state of constant suffering just for the sole purpose of making the health care industry more profitable?
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"Do we establish an age where we start culling the population? What age? Do you want a medical criteria? What is the borderline level? What factors are the determining ones? Are they physical, mental or emotional. "
Why is this so hard for some people to comprehend?
I AM NOT suggesting taking your 80-year-old grandmother out and having her shot just because she turned 80 last week. I AM NOT suggesting having your retarded nephew gassed just because his IQ is below 90. There is no "slippery slope" so don't even try to claim one exists.
Go to your local Alzheimer's ward to get an example of the people I mean. Don't look at the people who are slowly wandering around asking about the train station in the non-existant basement or half-singing nursery rhymes or trying to escape but unable to due to the alarms or crying all day long begging to die; these people are still perfectly alive and not who I mean.
No, go into the rooms and look for the bad cases, the people who are bedridden and blubber and do nothing but sit there and convert their tube-fed stuff into poop and then get to marinate in it for however long it takes someone to actually notice then pull their feeding tube out and cry in pain because it hurts and they don't know why then cry when more when the nurse comes and sticks it right back in for the 10th time.
Is that your idea of civilization? Every time I see someone forced to linger like that, I don't think it's civilization; I think it's a heartbreaking shame and a crime against humanity.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by J_A_B
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No, go into the rooms and look for the bad cases, the people who are bedridden and blubber and do nothing but sit there and convert their tube-fed stuff into poop and then get to marinate in it for however long it takes someone to actually notice then pull their feeding tube out and cry in pain because it hurts and they don't know why then cry when more when the nurse comes and sticks it right back in for the 10th time.
Is that your idea of civilization? Every time I see someone forced to linger like that, I don't think it's civilization; I think it's a heartbreaking shame and a crime against humanity.
J_A_B
Amen
shamus
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WHen and IF the baby boomers start to retire wait till you see the labor shortages! You thaught the "dot-com" bubble was an employees market....you aint seen nothin yet.
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
(http://www.snowcrest.net/fox/loganpics/movie/a6more/FrancisLogan.jpg)
RUNNNNERRRRRRRR!!!!!
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or.... just5 don't respond to accidents. Ban ambulance service and highway fatalities would cut down the population a bunch.
Let loose a virus.... suitcase nukes.... wall up the big cities and don't let anyone out or food in.
All viable solutions.
lazs
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Looks like old people are going to have to start working for a living. Or maybe the government will end social security and stop destroying their ability to invest for retirement?
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I hope to god that my children will never have to support me. Or I will ever be non functional.
I was serious, If I don't kick out at 70 or 75 from just being exhausted, I've done something wrong.
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Death has become a thing people fear and someting that is not natural it seems. People fear it and try to extend life beyond what what the body is ment to handle. Not so long ago it wasnt such a big deal and we handled death in a more natural way.
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Jab,
I actually agree with most of your innitial post. I just wanted to play devils advocate for the same situation taken to te extreme. My posts to you were not meant to be a flame or detraction to your character.
I've watched alzheimers in action, the same with terminal emphysima (sp?). It wasn't pleaant in either case especially the latter one as it was my Mom before she died last December.
There IS an option that is available in several of those cases. It's a living will. It's not a perfect solution of course but it is a step in the right direction. My wife and I have one. I do not want to be kept alive when there is no reasonable hope of getting well to a point of being able to enjoy life.
The idea of setting a mandatory get out the door age is abhorant to me. Many are active and viable past their 70's and they enjoy life imensely. If I couldn't function and take care of myself I'd rather check out, but that is a personal choice and should notr be forced on another.
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Not true, death has always been feared but with modern day medical advances we are prolonging life but with little question of the quality of life.
Not to mention even without medical advances our overall age would have increased due to better nutrition and a decrease in environmental stressors.
Sorry Nilsen, but the search for the 'Fountain of Youth' is not new. :)
Originally posted by Nilsen
Not so long ago it wasnt such a big deal and we handled death in a more natural way.
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Originally posted by hawker238
Might have been Plato and Socrate's in Plato's "The Republic".
Didn't Plato talk more of "genetically engineering" humans to be perfect so that democracy could work?
I've never read it, so you're probably right as well.
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Soylent Green? Wafer anyone?
Thorns
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Originally posted by Delirium
Not true, death has always been feared but with modern day medical advances we are prolonging life but with little question of the quality of life.
Not to mention even without medical advances our overall age would have increased due to better nutrition and a decrease in environmental stressors.
Sorry Nilsen, but the search for the 'Fountain of Youth' is not new. :)
I know its nothing new, but death and talking aobut it is more "taboo" now than before.
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"I actually agree with most of your innitial post. I just wanted to play devils advocate for the same situation taken to te extreme. My posts to you were not meant to be a flame or detraction to your character. "
I'm glad you pointed this out. I normally consider you an articulate and intelligent individual, but you had me starting to wonder.
"The idea of setting a mandatory get out the door age is abhorant to me. "
Me too.
J_A_B
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Originally posted by weaselsan
I say we kill off all males under 35 and make sex slaves of their women....
I could go for making sex slaves of their women..
We dont even have to kill those off under 35.
75% of them and fully 95% of those under 30 dont know what to do with their women anyway:)
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(Quote) Soylent Green? Wafer anyone? (Unquote)
Very perceptive, Thorns.
Or maybe ...
Old people could be persuaded to sayonara out on the ice flow, but ... so much global warning that there aren't enough ice flows.
Final station at Drivers Exam could be happy pill for those who fail a revised tougher physical, but ... so many old people in the world have never had a car.
Leaving ... Death by Clog! Confine old people to boring location where exercise is forbidden and all they can do is eat -- and nothing but beer, booze, soft drinks, candy, chips, pizza, super burgers, shakes, and banana splits.
Takes a little longer, but tastier than a green wafer ....
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Originally posted by United
Didn't Plato talk more of "genetically engineering" humans to be perfect so that democracy could work?
I've never read it, so you're probably right as well.
It was less genetic engineering and more of a selective breeding and social stratification program.
I think he was a nutjob.
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Maybe death has become such a thing of fear because of the decline of religion and morality.
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Right...
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(http://www.btinternet.com/~reg.joy/images/Robots/box.jpg)
Seagrass! and Algae! and Plankton from the sea!
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
(http://www.snowcrest.net/fox/loganpics/movie/a6more/FrancisLogan.jpg)
First row far right:aok
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I just am wondering why he is holding the dudes knee to the right of him?
Was this a ghey movie?
NwBie