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General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 09:38:04 AM

Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 09:38:04 AM
last night was one of those perfect moments where i smoked the last one in the pack before going to bed.

when i went to open a new pack this morning, it occurred to me that the last time i quit (for 3 years) i simply didnt open another pack.

im done.  finito.  no mas.

its gross.

wish me luck.


88
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lada on January 26, 2005, 09:44:27 AM
just **** the luck

i wish you to remember how easy you  quite and how silly you fell before you stop  :D

boooooooooooooooo :cool:
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 26, 2005, 09:45:46 AM
Good luck to you.

Here's a link you might find interesting

https://www.kintera.org/site/apps/kb/home/login.asp?kntaw1360=21863D6CDAEB430D84B41ACD07652A2A&c=dvLUK9O0E&b=38973&membershipreq=83912&targetURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elungusa%2Eorg%2Fsite%2Fpp%2Easp%3Fc%3DdvLUK9O0E%26b%3D22933

and another

http://whyquit.com/
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB73 on January 26, 2005, 09:46:48 AM
good luck....


man you think JB88 is moody and emotional now????


wait till those nic withdrawls hit the BBS LOL
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 09:51:00 AM
lol.

yer all screwed in about six hours.

thanks guys.

MMMMmmRRRRRRrrrrRRRAAAAAAAAAA AA!


oh and martlette....
(http://www.intothewoods.us/HikerMama/chicken.jpg)
whatever.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Saintaw on January 26, 2005, 09:51:33 AM
^^ lol :D

Good luck '88 !
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 09:52:56 AM
<---- i wonder if i should tie myself down
wolfman style or something.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Airhead on January 26, 2005, 10:01:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
<---- i wonder if i should tie myself down
wolfman style or something.


No, if you've made up your mind to quit then you've quit. Get a bag of baby carrots instead.

Good luck, I hope you stay off them. Remember, quitting smoking is the single best thing you can do to improve your health.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Muckmaw1 on January 26, 2005, 10:02:53 AM
88-

Thought I don't particulary like you, I really hope you make it.

It's a tough habit to break. If you do crack, don't beat yourself up too bad. Just re-assert your reasons for quitting and try again.

I'm going back on the patch on Saturday.

Oh, and try to avoid situations where you'll be drinking at least for a few weeks.

Good Luck.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 10:11:02 AM
thanks muck.  

i like you just fine.  cant say as i really dislike anyone here.  

but i might in about 3 or 4 hours and then for a few days if i remember how it goes correctly.

good luck yourself sir.



88

<----off to shop for some baby carrots and a few gallons of water.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Muckmaw1 on January 26, 2005, 10:40:34 AM
I was just kidding about not liking you.

BTW, check out the whyquit.com websight.

If that does not scare the crap outta you, nothing will
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB73 on January 26, 2005, 10:58:44 AM
88 whatever you do DO NOT become one of those truth NAZI's

i'd have to litterally kill you if that happens
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 11:33:00 AM
i wont.  id have to kill myself if that happened.

:)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 11:33:58 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Muckmaw1
I was just kidding about not liking you.

BTW, check out the whyquit.com websight.

If that does not scare the crap outta you, nothing will


shall do muck ty sir :)
Title: Re: quitting smoking
Post by: Nilsen on January 26, 2005, 11:40:07 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
last night was one of those perfect moments where i smoked the last one in the pack before going to bed.

when i went to open a new pack this morning, it occurred to me that the last time i quit (for 3 years) i simply didnt open another pack.

im done.  finito.  no mas.

its gross.

wish me luck.


88


Almost the same way i did it a year ago (on feb 1.) when I quit. I ran out in the evning and decided not to get another pack in the morning.

A year has passed and it has worked.

Good luck

:)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 11:58:17 AM
TY nilsen, will you be my sponsor?


:)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: patrone on January 26, 2005, 01:24:10 PM
I´ve been trying seriously to quit for like 2 months now. Its hard, Some days I fail, but......

Then I think of theese guys that are running this company, putting chemicals into the cigaretts to make me even more addicted. To make their profit larger and they know it will kill me in the end.
Same guys probebly goes to church with no remorse what so ever about their buisness.

It gets me pretty pissed and I put the cigaretts away, again
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Muckmaw1 on January 26, 2005, 01:29:42 PM
Quote
Originally posted by patrone
I´ve been trying seriously to quit for like 2 months now. Its hard, Some days I fail, but......

Then I think of theese guys that are running this company, putting chemicals into the cigaretts to make me even more addicted. To make their profit larger and they know it will kill me in the end.
Same guys probebly goes to church with no remorse what so ever about their buisness.

It gets me pretty pissed and I put the cigaretts away, again


Story of my life right there....

I wish I never started.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: hyena426 on January 26, 2005, 01:36:37 PM
good luck jb88<~~im a exsmoker too

i smoker religously for 9 years,i quit 6 years ago now cold turkey. takes the right timing to quit and you have to be pissed off anuff,,hehe,,,i never indended to quit but i was having a bad day i called one of my freinds to bum a cig because i was out,,well he told me he quit like a week ago,,and i said hell with it!! hung up the phone and never had a cig sence,,i even play in bars on the weekend and the smoke doesnt bother me anymore,,i dont even miss it,,it takes time but its well worth it,,,good luck jb thats a hard fight!!<~~atleast i dont wake up doing that song anymore,,whisle while you breath!! hehe
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: wombatt on January 26, 2005, 02:25:41 PM
I am 47 years old.
I started smoking when I was 17.
I stopped smoking 6 months ago.
I take wellbutrin XL (low risk of sexual side effects)LOL
No kidding it killed the urge to smoke i simply forgot about cigarettes.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Ohio43 on January 26, 2005, 02:35:43 PM
Thanks for the links Tweetie Bird.  Just spent the last hour browsing them.  Im going to try to quit now myself from what Ive read.  Good luck JB in your attempt..  Ill be right there with ya.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 26, 2005, 02:36:41 PM
you don't need luck or patches or whatever.... you need to man up and just do it.... and to stay away from your weak spined whiney liberal friends....  it makes you emotional and makes you want to smoke..   stay away from the far left corners of the internet and tinfroil hat territitory.... it just upsets you and gives you an excuse to be spineless.      Leave that nagging ***** that conned you into voting for kerrie and watching all those chick flicks.

I have other suggestions if you still feel that you are too spineless to do it on your own.    No charge.  unlike the horde of shrinks and their junk science  you and your liberal friends support or....  all the money you spend in the self help section of borders.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 02:38:57 PM
lasz.

i am going to eat your head and spit out the marble that is your brain.

but thank you for the encouragement none the less.

Augosaurus Rex, sitting in for 88 while he quits smoking.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: patrone on January 26, 2005, 02:41:02 PM
Patches, does help
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 02:41:06 PM
thanks ohio, wombat, hyena, patrone.

 

every bit helps.

88

p.s.  watch out for augosaurus...hes sitting in for me today...he is what you might call a NEO-constitutionalist patriot.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 02:42:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by patrone
Patches, does help


not gonna patch it this time.  i always end up smoking with them on for the increased nicotine.

not bucking for a heart attack.

straight bite the bullet here.

roar.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 26, 2005, 02:43:39 PM
oh right..... like I couldn't kick the crap out of a wussy liberal who can't even quit smoking.   When that day comes I guess it really is time for the ice flow...  even tho my family has been banned from using the ice flow ever since the ufortunate incident with gramps.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 02:49:34 PM
i have quit smoking you natural law defying, gun needing, blight touting simian.

may the next liberal that you see give you the retro-clubbing that your kind have so rightly deserved since you managed to somehow escape god's last good ice flow.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: wombatt on January 26, 2005, 02:52:56 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
lasz.

i am going to eat your head and spit out the marble that is your brain.

 


LOL sig material.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: patrone on January 26, 2005, 02:54:49 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88


not bucking for a heart attack.



SISSI!
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB73 on January 26, 2005, 02:57:29 PM
someone's having nic fits
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 02:59:01 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
someone's having nic fits


like you wouldnt believe.

:mad:
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Ohio43 on January 26, 2005, 03:06:13 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB73
someone's having nic fits


 LOL..i was thinking the same thing.  Dont mess with JB right now..whatever he says just might happen
   Fits of anger replace the dopamine he's losing from quitting, so not only will he kill you, but it will satisfy him.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nilsen on January 26, 2005, 04:04:40 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
TY nilsen, will you be my sponsor?


:)


It's free to quit so you dont need one... you will actually save a bundle.

Seriously... if you feel the need for a smoke then take a look at the last line in my sig and guess why that happened.

If that fails then mail me.  :)

What worked for me was to _not_ use any substitues for smokes like gum or patches.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 04:07:01 PM
shall do :)

Title: quitting smoking
Post by: WilldCrd on January 26, 2005, 04:08:07 PM
goodluck jb88. Ive been smoke free for 35 days now. Cant stand the smell of ciggys now. But, for some reason pipe tobacco is stragnly compelling
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: patrone on January 26, 2005, 04:52:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by WilldCrd
goodluck jb88. Ive been smoke free for 35 days now. Cant stand the smell of ciggys now. But, for some reason pipe tobacco is stragnly compelling



Well, cigaretts are banned, because they hold not only nicotine, I use the pipe tobbaco when I fail.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 07:36:11 PM
ty wild.  so far so good.

:)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Martlet on January 26, 2005, 07:39:04 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
lol.

yer all screwed in about six hours.

thanks guys.

MMMMmmRRRRRRrrrrRRRAAAAAAAAAA AA!


oh and martlette....
(http://www.intothewoods.us/HikerMama/chicken.jpg)
whatever.


Still mad at me for being the one to point out you don't know what you're talking about?

Sorry.  Let it go, girl, and they'll forget.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 07:40:39 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Martlet
Still mad at me for being the one to point out you don't know what you're talking about?

Sorry.  Let it go, girl, and they'll forget.


oh, im not mad at you.

god is.  its pretty obvious.

sorry bout that.

if i were saif, id pound your face in btw.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Martlet on January 26, 2005, 07:41:44 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
oh, im not mad at you.

god is.  its pretty obvious.

sorry bout that.

bawk bawk bawk....



Ahhh, not mad, just obsessed.  I get it.

Let it go girl, and they'll forget.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 07:43:31 PM
martlette.  you bore me.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Martlet on January 26, 2005, 07:50:19 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
martlette.  you bore me.


Apparently I don't.  You take the time to post about me in a thread about you quitting smoking.

Obsessed.    Let it go, girl, and they'll forget.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 07:55:17 PM
i wont forget what you are.

but i promise not to lose any sleep over it.

i thought you would appreciate the humor but appearantly youve taken it personally.

i know, i know, you love the attention.  

but alas.  our time is done.

martlette.  you bore me.

its over between us.  goodbye.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Martlet on January 26, 2005, 08:00:34 PM
Aparently I don't.

Obsessed. Let it go, girl, and they'll forget.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 08:06:14 PM
ok.

so far so good.

i am drinking bucketloads of water and i can almost feel the crap coming out of my pores.  

im a little grouchy and somewhat anxious, but optimistic....i cant wait to wake up in the morning and not have my chest feel like its was runover by a garbage truck.

god, why did i start in the first place?

first goal.  one week.  should be easy to recommit, but much easier to swallow in small incriments.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: FuBaR on January 26, 2005, 09:09:45 PM
curious



whats harder to quit, smoking...or masturbation  :D :D :D
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 26, 2005, 09:21:29 PM
Depends how old you are.

Labido wanes, addiction doesn't.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Ripper29 on January 26, 2005, 09:28:18 PM
JB88

Good luck man..I hope you can do it, it will be the best thing you have done to help yourself.  I smoked for like 25 years and have now been smoke free for 7....When I quit the last time I went to the Doctor and got the prescription for Zyban and have not looked back.  If you need to "chat" or talk it through let me know.  


Keep up with the water, its good for you anyway...

And when you have the urge to have a smoke just tell yourself that you don't do that any more......best of luck...
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 26, 2005, 09:32:11 PM
After 72 hours, things should start getting better - its gonna take a good 2 weeks to feel human again, but after 72 hours you are definitely over the hill.

<--3 weeks 2 days.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 26, 2005, 09:36:20 PM
Am I the only one that finds Martlet hot?

system message: emoticon unavailable
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Martlet on January 26, 2005, 09:37:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
Am I the only one that finds Martlet hot?

system message: emoticon unavailable


Probably.  Sorry, you aren't my type.  I prefer girls with at least a double digit IQ.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 26, 2005, 09:38:27 PM
we can pretend...
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Martlet on January 26, 2005, 09:39:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
we can pretend...


If we're pretending, then you pretend Nash is me and I'll pretend you don't exist.  Then everyone is happy.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 09:45:08 PM
so, ive got like 50 some odd hours left tweety.

if you can do it.  so can i.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 26, 2005, 09:51:01 PM
Yup you can do it. It hurts a lot less than having your rotator cuff (sp?) torn., breaking your pinky, or shattering your knee cap. In the end the only problem is they are so readily available.  But it don't hurt that bad - you can do it, and you only have to do it once.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 09:54:39 PM
ouch.  how did you manage that one?
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 26, 2005, 10:06:58 PM
Rotator cuff came from a very poor golf swing, pinky came from a very poor football catch and a cousin helping me up (OUCH!!!), kneecap came from break dancing - literally.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 10:08:38 PM
all at once?!
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 26, 2005, 10:12:33 PM
Nooo of course not. Its taken years to aquire this ignorance...

But you know ya gota make mistakes and have fun.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 10:13:52 PM
yes you do.  though it isnt really hard to have fun in Nawlins.

love that place.

:cool:
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: nirvana on January 26, 2005, 10:35:54 PM
Just think about all the great tar filling your lungs so you can't breathe and all that money you spend on something disgusting when you could be spending it on something better..........like paintball!  Good Luck 88:aok
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 26, 2005, 10:39:14 PM
ty sir!

Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 27, 2005, 08:35:35 AM
sheesh.... what a little girl... come here to get some "support"?   can't even keep a tube out of your mouth wussy?

You gonna talk us all to death over this?   why don't you just grab hold of your boyfriend and have a good cry?

And... you haven't quit.  You are an addict who has just stopped useing for a little while.   For some... quitting is a month others a year... some haven't really quit after 5 years and some still crave sucking on those tubes the rest of their lives.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Martlet on January 27, 2005, 08:38:23 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
sheesh.... what a little girl... come here to get some "support"?   can't even keep a tube out of your mouth wussy?

You gonna talk us all to death over this?   why don't you just grab hold of your boyfriend and have a good cry?

And... you haven't quit.  You are an addict who has just stopped useing for a little while.   For some... quitting is a month others a year... some haven't really quit after 5 years and some still crave sucking on those tubes the rest of their lives.

lazs


I quit years ago and I still crave it.  I loved smoking.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 27, 2005, 08:40:40 AM
yeah but 88 will cave in if he still even wants one years from now... If his boyfriend says something insensitive or he gets a parking ticket or some other lame excuse will be enough...

He will probly talk us all to death about his excuse when he does start again too.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Saintaw on January 27, 2005, 08:40:59 AM
All this talk about smokin' ... I need to get me some now :D
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 27, 2005, 08:49:12 AM
yeah that's the ticket!   88 can start again and just tell his liberal friends that he is doing the 'european" thing by giving up.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Saintaw on January 27, 2005, 08:56:44 AM
I never quit smoking, never will. I enjoy annoying you fat ladies too much. Especially the ones that go "*cough cough*".
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 27, 2005, 09:12:38 AM
see?  he could just say "I'm not gay I'm just being european"

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Ohio43 on January 27, 2005, 10:14:00 AM
JB..try reading that whyquit.com.  has some interesting tips on quitting. Like drinking Juices (the acids remove the nicotene).  Always have some food in your stomach since your blood sugar drops after quitting smoking.  Im on my first day and doing o.k. so far!
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Ohio43 on January 27, 2005, 10:20:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by nirvana
Just think about all the great tar filling your lungs so you can't breathe and all that money you spend on something disgusting when you could be spending it on something better..........like paintball!  Good Luck 88:aok

  Or a gun to make a visit to Lasz
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: FuBaR on January 27, 2005, 11:12:38 AM
lmao Tweety!!!
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 27, 2005, 11:17:54 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
sheesh.... what a little girl... come here to get some "support"?   can't even keep a tube out of your mouth wussy?

You gonna talk us all to death over this?   why don't you just grab hold of your boyfriend and have a good cry?

And... you haven't quit.  You are an addict who has just stopped useing for a little while.   For some... quitting is a month others a year... some haven't really quit after 5 years and some still crave sucking on those tubes the rest of their lives.

lazs


lets see...how many posts are here from you this morning?  he laz, you gonna talk me to death over this or are you gonna out yourself and quit sneaking out of town to go to gay bars.  you gotta get your head somewhere else man.  thats the thing that annoys most people about gays laz...they make thier whole lives about it.  do your thing.  i wont judge you for anything other than your obvious waste of intellectual prowess.

he has so much potential, why doesnt he use it?
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: FuBaR on January 27, 2005, 11:19:25 AM
:rofl :rofl :rofl :rofl
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 27, 2005, 11:27:00 AM
Quote
Originally posted by Ohio43
JB..try reading that whyquit.com.  has some interesting tips on quitting. Like drinking Juices (the acids remove the nicotene).  Always have some food in your stomach since your blood sugar drops after quitting smoking.  Im on my first day and doing o.k. so far!


great site ohio thanks!  

Title: quitting smoking
Post by: GreenCloud on January 27, 2005, 01:53:14 PM
you little linguine spinned potatoes

MAN UP!!!..

SMoke what you want ..Life is too short to not enjoy it..


LUNGS CAN REPAIR THEMsELVES!!!

You might as well stop drinking..stope eating desserts..ect...


Why do you hurt yourself..

Dotn you LOVE smoking when you get up in the morning?.....

How about after you have STUFFED yourself with a Brisket Sandwich?...


AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHH]


Flavor Country


SMOKE IT!!!!.............Dont let teh Smoke NAzis run your LIFE!!!





please die of cancer soon
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 27, 2005, 01:55:02 PM
your brilliance never fails to astound greencloud.  

:aok
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 27, 2005, 02:25:37 PM
well.... at least he is honest about the whole thing.  He doesn't say he is gonna quit and then start again like you did.   Why not just admit that you are lieing to us and yourself or.... better yet... Ifg you are gonna quit then simply quit and be done with it.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 27, 2005, 02:27:51 PM
i have quit.  

im not making an issue of it.

how bout you take a long walk off a short pier.  k?
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: GreenCloud on January 27, 2005, 02:30:53 PM
if i had the tiem and effort....i woudl post a pic of Homer Simpson..
.."Ahhh Flavor Country"..

lmfao..god that makes me laff..


JBHilter..its not brilliance..I call it comedy...Im laffn..and thats all that really counts..


HAHAH dirty smokers..suks for you..well unless YOU ENJOY IT

btw..Its still crazy as hell to me to now travel outside cali..and see the smokers in stores..frikn nasty..you smell like an ash tray..

and women smokers..llololololo
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 27, 2005, 02:32:17 PM
you haven't quit... you have stopped using for a very short while... Not only that but the ciggs are occupying more space in your head right now than they did yesterday.

plus... you are weak... you will start again soon enough with some lame excuse.   What was your excuse last time you started?

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 27, 2005, 02:34:04 PM
your wife told me that you were onto us.

:aok
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 27, 2005, 02:36:23 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GreenCloud
if i had the tiem and effort....i woudl post a pic of Homer Simpson..
.."Ahhh Flavor Country"..

lmfao..god that makes me laff..


JBHilter..its not brilliance..I call it comedy...Im laffn..and thats all that really counts..


HAHAH dirty smokers..suks for you..well unless YOU ENJOY IT

btw..Its still crazy as hell to me to now travel outside cali..and see the smokers in stores..frikn nasty..you smell like an ash tray..

and women smokers..llololololo


im hitler now for parlaying your brilliance to words?  my and such an imagination sir.

your mother must be awefully proud.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: GreenCloud on January 27, 2005, 02:37:29 PM
oops..i bettr say..GOOD LUCK...and put a smiley with a thumbs up ?...

buhahaha..


Tuff love baby tuffff love

I heard if you start use'n dip its bettr?
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: GreenCloud on January 27, 2005, 02:41:52 PM
ohhh my bad..i thought..

1) JB -..well this is WW2 site..they are Nazi army
2) 88...ya ya..i seen all the nazi stuff...why dont you pick another number then..nazi
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 27, 2005, 02:47:09 PM
Quote
Originally posted by GreenCloud
ohhh my bad..i thought..

1) JB -..well this is WW2 site..they are Nazi army
2) 88...ya ya..i seen all the nazi stuff...why dont you pick another number then..nazi


i had never even remotely considered that jb's are nazi.  they arent, and im not going into that here.  we arent the only squad that flies german.  

why another number?  whats wrong with 88?  the SS thing that someone brought up?  never occurred to me.  i dount that its truei was thinking more in terms of weapons.  and i just like the number.  sounded good to me.

but then, i suppose being a nazi would quell the liberal crap huh?

have another cocktail friend.  its on me.

time to run errands.

:(
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 27, 2005, 03:18:33 PM
>>you little linguine spinned potatoes

MAN UP!!!.. .....<<

Uhhuh, and when you get that dull squeezing pain shooting up your left arm to your jaw, and you notice you are sweating profusely, remember - man up  (and have another brisket on me):)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: indy007 on January 27, 2005, 03:37:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
why another number?  whats wrong with 88?


88 is a good number. I turned 8 on 8/8/88.

PS: Wellbutrin is your friend. I stopped smoking cigarettes for 3 months, re-started for 6, and I'm about 1/4 way through this perscription, so not much longer left! Just avoid bars. I got a few shots in me & caved.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Urchin on January 27, 2005, 04:26:14 PM
I haven't had a cigarette in just about a whole day now.  

I did have a few pieces of that nicorette gum though... does that actually make it harder to quit since you are still putting nicotine in your body?  

I didn't think I'd make it a whole day without a smoke though, I'm kinda proud of myself :).  

I just didn't go out and buy more when I ran out yesterday.. that seems to be a common thread lol.  

I didn't make it "official" though... since if I DO smoke one I don't wanna be like "Ah man, I really ****ed up there, now I'm a ****up and I'm just gonna smoke like normal" lol.  

So yea.. I'm babbling anyway... so I'll shut up now.  I think not smoking does that to people..
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Martlet on January 27, 2005, 04:28:25 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
I haven't had a cigarette in just about a whole day now.  

I did have a few pieces of that nicorette gum though... does that actually make it harder to quit since you are still putting nicotine in your body?  

I didn't think I'd make it a whole day without a smoke though, I'm kinda proud of myself :).  

I just didn't go out and buy more when I ran out yesterday.. that seems to be a common thread lol.  

I didn't make it "official" though... since if I DO smoke one I don't wanna be like "Ah man, I really ****ed up there, now I'm a ****up and I'm just gonna smoke like normal" lol.  

So yea.. I'm babbling anyway... so I'll shut up now.  I think not smoking does that to people..


Nicotene gum rocks.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nilsen on January 27, 2005, 04:44:52 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
I haven't had a cigarette in just about a whole day now.  

I did have a few pieces of that nicorette gum though... does that actually make it harder to quit since you are still putting nicotine in your body?  

I just didn't go out and buy more when I ran out yesterday.. that seems to be a common thread lol.  

I didn't make it "official" though... since if I DO smoke one I don't wanna be like "Ah man, I really ****ed up there, now I'm a ****up and I'm just gonna smoke like normal" lol.  



1. Congrats

2. No comment... what works for you :)

3. Worked for me.

4. You are quitting for your own good so you dont need the preassure from others around you. Good move, but tell ONE person that can back you up if you need it.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: GreenCloud on January 27, 2005, 06:57:05 PM
lol


1 more time for you shortbus....

JB.....ya german..this is a ww2 BBs...so being a german in the army during ww2 = Nazi

ya ya,,,Doerntz boys didtn heil hitler..and Ulrich was really just brainwashed.....


and you already know the signifigance of 88


I didnt pick it..you did JBhitler..lololo


and bird...im so far from a heartattak...Im defnlty outliving you
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 27, 2005, 10:52:20 PM
If you're going to use nicotine replacement, I'd go with the patch. The gum and inhalers provide imediate gratification numerous times a day just building a new habit. Clean nicotine, yes, but it does not break that hourly reward cycle.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Holden McGroin on January 27, 2005, 10:57:19 PM
Quitting smoking is easy.

In the US alone, 418,000 quit last year without even trying.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Scherf on January 27, 2005, 11:06:19 PM
^ was going to use a :rofl smiley, then looked at the number again.

:eek: :confused: :(

That many?
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Holden McGroin on January 27, 2005, 11:29:59 PM
According to the CDC, 276k men, 142k women.

If we encouraged smoking, we could save Social Security.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: bigsky on January 27, 2005, 11:48:22 PM
24 days without a smoke. nicorete works well. it keeps you from  strangling kittens. the state raised taxes, im not paying $5 a pack for smokes.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 28, 2005, 08:30:14 AM
88 lisped... "your wife told me that you were onto us. "

which one?

Soooo.... you are either a big tough nazi guy or a whiney little liberal who can't even stop his tube sucking habit without having a good cry on the BB.... Which is it?

tweety...  I am sure that many here have had even worse injuries and handled em pretty well...  I myself have had a few over the years that might rival a "rotator cup" thingie... I believe I saw a stray dog run off with mine in the last big Harley crash of my career...  

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 28, 2005, 09:18:53 AM
Well laz, I left out the time I drove a railroad spike through my head just for the hell of it. I didn't want be gaudy ya know.


It was a point (i.e., withdrawal doesn't hurt that bad), not a competition :)

Wanna see my missing toe?
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Ohio43 on January 28, 2005, 09:31:50 AM
Research has shown that you have no better chance at quitting with the use of any Nicotene replacement therapies.  Save your money.  Get the poison out of you a.s.a.p.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 28, 2005, 09:38:18 AM
How's day 2 going Ohio? Good luck to you.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Ohio43 on January 28, 2005, 10:46:54 AM
Day 2 is going OK..starting to get a little edgy.  ya know..wanting to strangle kittens kind-o-thing.  BUT, nothing I cant handle.  Its weird..not even 24 hrs. into it, I started being able to smell smoke reaking off smoker's clothes.  I knew a day would happen that Id smell that, but not so soon.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 28, 2005, 02:29:05 PM
2 days?   surprised the sissy made it this long.... probly snuck a suck or two behind the building...  No matter...  won't be long and he will fold like a cheap card table under a fat lady..

tweety.... toe?   hwo bout the whole friggin fibia?

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: 2stony on January 28, 2005, 03:10:25 PM
I quit smoking when I was 21. I started again after a couple of months. I got sick as a dog. I haven't smoked in 30 years now. I quit smoking pot in 1981. I haven't smoked it since. I quit drinking alchohol in 1984. I haven't drank it since. I stopped drinking caffiene in 1984. I haven't drank it since. It doesn't matter what your addiction is, you either can stop or you can't.

;)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 28, 2005, 03:20:43 PM
Laz: Well the toe came off at the fibia. Then I got mad and just ripped out the whole fibia and threw it my box of Craftsman wrenches. It hardly draws flies anymore.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 28, 2005, 03:28:26 PM
>>I quit smoking when I was 21. I started again after a couple of months. I got sick as a dog. I haven't smoked in 30 years now. I quit smoking pot in 1981. I haven't smoked it since. I quit drinking alchohol in 1984. I haven't drank it since. I stopped drinking caffiene in 1984. I haven't drank it since.<<

So 2Stony, if you give up sex you'll be officially dead...
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: 2stony on January 28, 2005, 03:32:58 PM
Quote
So 2Stony, if you give up sex you'll be officially dead...



     Don't worry about that Tweetybird, even at 51 I'm still a lean, mean, effin machine!

;)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 28, 2005, 08:57:06 PM
That the great thing about quitting smoking ( or never starting). It'll keep them little blood vessels in shape :D
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Suave on January 28, 2005, 10:37:24 PM
I never understood what was so hard about quitting smoking. Maybe  I've never been addicted. I'll smoke about 3 packs a week for a few months, then I wont smoke at all for a few months.  Never noticed any ill effects, other than occasionally wanting a cigarette after eating or after work.

Quiting smoking is as easy as wanting to quit.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nilsen on January 29, 2005, 03:42:41 AM
3 packs a week is not alot. If you try quitting after smoking a pack a day for 13 years its worse.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 29, 2005, 10:39:21 AM
tweety... way to go... I was beginning to wonder about you, what with the golf injuries and paper cuts and all.

suave has it right.. it is not difficult to quit..  he quits often.

sooo... how long will it be before 88 confesses that he has started again?

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 29, 2005, 09:59:29 PM
Don't under estimate golf injuries. I've done reached in the bag for a tee and have it go under my nail. The pain was so bad, I had to miss 3 yoga classes..
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Holden McGroin on January 29, 2005, 10:10:27 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
Don't under estimate golf injuries.


I was hitting a bucket o'balls at the course this summer, and an ambulance rolled up to the clubhouse.

They were loading this guy's wife on the stretcher and I saw a wound on left side her forehead where she was hit by her husband's drive.  It was amazing, you could almost read Titleist in the 'dent'

She had a second on the opposite side, and I asked the guy how did that happen?

He said the second one was his mulligan.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 30, 2005, 12:53:20 AM
end of day three.



:D
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: mechanic on January 30, 2005, 02:55:12 AM
like lazs says...quitting is easy.....i musta quit six or so times this week alone.  no sweat.


trust me though, getting hooked again is much easier than quitting.

if you want an honest hint to help quitting from me....and you cant handle the 'dont ever smoke again, throw this pack away' method....try switching to rolling tobacco for a while.

after a few weeks you'll be so sick of it you'll want to quit.

if you cant quit, you dont want to.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 30, 2005, 03:01:31 AM
im done.  no mas.  whether lasz likes it or not or whether he believes it or not.  

appreciate the advice none the less sir.



88

btw.  i still have an unopened pack that i keep with me.  it says NO in big black letters.

makes me think before i light up.

easier to know that i can, but choose not to.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: mechanic on January 30, 2005, 04:04:59 AM
yeah, i like the 'NO' on the pack. nice little personal touch to help out.

when i seriously quit a year ago, i stuck one of the health warnings on my mobile phone.

*ring*

'hello, smoking causes serious damage to you and others around you'

'eh?'

'er...sorry mate...you get that ganja for tonight?'
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 30, 2005, 04:08:00 AM
so thats what you meant by hand rolled.

lololol.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: mechanic on January 30, 2005, 04:09:18 AM
:D


one of them will always stop my urge to smoke ciggys for at least the rest of the day.



bad habbit tho, burns your brain to mulch. in my case its a victimless crime.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nilsen on January 30, 2005, 05:47:09 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
im done.  no mas.  whether lasz likes it or not or whether he believes it or not.  

appreciate the advice none the less sir.



88

btw.  i still have an unopened pack that i keep with me.  it says NO in big black letters.

makes me think before i light up.

easier to know that i can, but choose not to.


I have had the same pack standing on the fireplace since i quit a year ago.

When i look at the pack and then down in the fireplace i see what i dont want my lungs to look like.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Holden McGroin on January 30, 2005, 05:53:41 AM
I would not want my lungs full of burning wood either.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: jodgi on January 30, 2005, 06:32:30 AM
Hmmm....

Time for a sig.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: mechanic on January 30, 2005, 06:42:00 AM
mmmmmmmmm......i can feel the satisfying sensation of my lungs slowly collapsing.  

ahhhhh, another day, another coffee break.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 30, 2005, 09:13:24 AM
>>He said the second one was his mulligan.<<

Thats funny! I'm going to get some milage out of that :D
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 30, 2005, 09:15:17 AM
perhaps they yelled "four!"
instead of "fore!"  

i can see where it might make a difference.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 30, 2005, 10:26:26 AM
soo tweety... do you think I am some cretin that doesn't even know what a golf tee it?   I'll have you know that I use em all the time.   they are the little wooden plug thingies that you use to plug vacuum lines while worrking on cars.

88 has made it a whole three days.... wooooweee...  He's a liberal, he won't make a year.   Even if he manages to make a year he will start again some time in the future over any event that get's him all emotional like some liberal losing an election or his boyfriend telling him his shoes make his feet look big or something.  

Even throwing away the cigg lighter in his prius won't help.   All his friends will be sitting at the bar smoking and laughing and looking really cool sucking on their ciggs....

My bet is that when he starts again he won't have the guts to admit it right away.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Muckmaw1 on January 30, 2005, 10:31:55 AM
Alright, I'm in.

I'm at 36 hours now without a smoke.

Alright, I'm cheating a little. I'm using the patch, so I'm still getting my Nic-Fix.

Guys, I cannot stress enough how much the patch helps.

Regardless, I am never going back.

You know what sealed the deal? The whyquit.com websight. I took one look at the pic of that 35 year old guy, dying in that hospital bed, with his beautiful family crying over him. It evoked the images of my father dying almost 1 year ago from lung cancer. The gasping for air in the final days. The pain and suffering.

F*ck this. It ain't worth it.

Stay strong guys. We'll do this thing together.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nilsen on January 30, 2005, 10:34:12 AM
better to quit using aids (cheat ;) ) than not to quit at all

muck
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on January 30, 2005, 11:10:42 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
soo tweety... do you think I am some cretin that doesn't even know what a golf tee it?   I'll have you know that I use em all the time.   they are the little wooden plug thingies that you use to plug vacuum lines while worrking on cars.

88 has made it a whole three days.... wooooweee...  He's a liberal, he won't make a year.   Even if he manages to make a year he will start again some time in the future over any event that get's him all emotional like some liberal losing an election or his boyfriend telling him his shoes make his feet look big or something.  

Even throwing away the cigg lighter in his prius won't help.   All his friends will be sitting at the bar smoking and laughing and looking really cool sucking on their ciggs....

My bet is that when he starts again he won't have the guts to admit it right away.

lazs


lasz,

please take your r lee ermy impersonation elsewhere.  

i could care less what you think about me, the subject at hand or my politics, or even your fetishy delusions of what my sexuality is,  but several people here, myself included have been impacted (some of us rather recently) by smoking and/or loss in ways that makes your decorum, or lack thereof most clearly out of bounds.

you werent invited, and unless you feel like participating in a constructive manner, i would appreciate it if you would take your rockemsockem soapbox out the door.

you want a peice of me?

fine.  

you can start your own "i hate 88" thread.  

but not here, and certainly not when you are acting like a total  arse in light of what you clearly lack the capacity to see.

capice'?

88
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Martlet on January 30, 2005, 11:48:34 AM
Quote
Originally posted by JB88
lasz,

please take your r lee ermy impersonation elsewhere.  

i could care less what you think about me, the subject at hand or my politics, or even your fetishy delusions of what my sexuality is,  but several people here, myself included have been impacted (some of us rather recently) by smoking and/or loss in ways that makes your decorum, or lack thereof most clearly out of bounds.

you werent invited, and unless you feel like participating in a constructive manner, i would appreciate it if you would take your rockemsockem soapbox out the door.

you want a peice of me?

fine.  

you can start your own "i hate 88" thread.  

but not here, and certainly not when you are acting like a total  arse in light of what you clearly lack the capacity to see.

capice'?

88


(http://www.dogsnot.net/pics/Cry-Baby.jpg)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 30, 2005, 12:35:49 PM
martlet... don't be too hard on him.. he is a kid and he is used to his equally inexperianced friends all telling him how bright he is.

as for not knowing anything about the subject.... I smoked 3 packs a day of non filter camels for 20 years.

just friggin quit and stop being a baby about it.

I simply don't believe that you can quit and that you won't have the guts to admit it when you do start again.   liberals are just weak.. It is probly related to genetics or something.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Martlet on January 30, 2005, 12:45:12 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
martlet... don't be too hard on him.. he is a kid and he is used to his equally inexperianced friends all telling him how bright he is.

as for not knowing anything about the subject.... I smoked 3 packs a day of non filter camels for 20 years.

just friggin quit and stop being a baby about it.

I simply don't believe that you can quit and that you won't have the guts to admit it when you do start again.   liberals are just weak.. It is probly related to genetics or something.

lazs


I didn't realize he was a kid.  That explains a lot.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Suave on January 30, 2005, 01:18:41 PM
I think most people hate I quit threads. They're almost as stupid as the threads on vidoe game forums asking for medical advice.

So if one starts a thread about how he's quiting dope or tobacco or aces high, and later responds indignately when the reader makes note of the lameness it just excacerbates the mob's drive to bludgeon.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Suave on January 30, 2005, 01:21:28 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
smoked 3 packs a day of non filter camels for 20 years.

just friggin quit and stop being a baby about it.

lazs


However did you do it without creating a "hey look at me" thread on a public bulletin board?
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 30, 2005, 01:42:58 PM
Ok what manly man pissed on my foot?

Seriously, this tinkle bells swinging is obnoxious..

Camel non-filters??? you girl. Kite - roll your own.

BTW, I think pound for pound information is better than support. So while support can be helpful in small doses (if people start crying its too much), having information of what actually going on will get you through the tough spots.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 31, 2005, 08:53:43 AM
ok tweety... here is the info... there is no good way to quit.   the only way to quit is to simply put the friggin things down and never pick em up again... you can jerk yourself off with nicotine products and patches all you want but..

It is gonna be painful no matter what... It's like a bad redwood splinter... quit screwing with it and take care of it.  

just friggin quit and quit crying about it.   Man up and just STOP.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nilsen on January 31, 2005, 09:15:23 AM
I actually agree with you lazs...

The only good and lasting way to quit in my opinion is to simply quit. Using alternatives just prolonges the process of getting rid of the addiction.

Makes you feel real good too knowing you did it that way.

But as I said earlier, the most important thing is to QUIT.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 31, 2005, 10:08:00 AM
Cold turkey works for some not all. Nicotine replacement works for some, not all. I've known people who smoked 3 1/2 packs a day and weren't as addicted to nicotine as someone smoking 3/4 of a pack. It's like alcohol. Some people are just more capable of getting severely addicted to it, and others aren't.

Because addicition is physiological, thinking that every individuals addiciton is going to be exactly the same is as ridiculous as thinking every individuals physiology is the same. If that was the case, everyone would be alergic to the same substance or no one would be.

Now Laz,  I'm not sure if you are intentionaly trying to be bombastic (I'm 99% sure you are), but commitment is only half the battle of beating addiction. Strategy is the second part. E.g., if you tried your certain "man up" (nike commercial "just do it") and just quit method of breaking an adiction to certain pain killers (and other medications) it could easily KILL YOU. So while a person addicted to those drugs needs to commitment to quit, they also need a specific strategy to accomplish it.

While nicotine is not fatal when suddenly withdrawn, its use in individuals varies. Its use can be as simple as a stimulant or as complex as self medicating depression or other neurological disorders (bipolar, ADD etc.). The strategy for quitting nicotine for ssomeone who is using it for self medication is going to be different than someone who using it for a stimulant.

So in short, if a person has been unsuccessful quitting nicotine cold turkey, by all means use nicotine replacement if its working for you. The patch makes more sense to me than the gum or inhalers as it doesn't devote your whole day attending to your addiction (reinforcing the psychological aspect of the addiction).
If you've quit numerous times and have went back after months, chances are you are self medicating an underlying condition. Make a plan to see a doctor after a couple of months off  of nicotine so you can treat that condition properly. Or see a doctor now and try it with wellbutrin (or other antidepressants that have proven effective - there's about 7 but they don't market as well).

Thats the info - heres the bombast

Only women smoke prerolled cigarettes down here in nutria country. Men fill em and lick em in 5 seconds. Sissies take longer.
And we don't call em cigarettes - hell thats a female cigar. We call em kites or smokes. I bet you're the type that needs to cook your nutria before you eat it (or shreik like a girl and say "ewwwww a RAT!")....
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: mechanic on January 31, 2005, 10:25:50 AM
Nilsen, i just noticed your sig...

sorry for your loss man, my condolences and thoughts for your family.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: 2stony on January 31, 2005, 10:28:41 AM
The hardest thing to control(IMO)is eating. Food is the most addicting thing there is. The proof is the fact that my two biggest addictions now are Oreo blizzards and Thomas Kemper root beer.
     Quitting smoking, drinking, using drugs and caffiene were easy. Food is not.

:D
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Muckmaw1 on January 31, 2005, 10:29:43 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird

So in short, if a person has been unsuccessful quitting nicotine cold turkey, by all means use nicotine replacement if its working for you. The patch makes more sense to me than the gum or inhalers as it doesn't devote your whole day attending to your addiction (reinforcing the psychological aspect of the addiction).


Exactly correct for me as well.

It's easier for me to quit if I ween myself off the substance I'm addicted too.

Smoking is a 2 fold addiction. It's both physically and Psychologically addicitive.

The patch allows me to break the psychological addiction which to me is much harder, without the side effects and constant craving of nicotine withdrawl at the same time.

I'm on day 3 now and feel great. I have to go to a lower dose patch in 5 weeks. Then off the patch all together 6 weeks after that.

I really recommend trying this for those who cannot quit cold turkey. And it works much better than the gum for me.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nilsen on January 31, 2005, 10:37:36 AM
Quote
Originally posted by mechanic
Nilsen, i just noticed your sig...

sorry for your loss man, my condolences and thoughts for your family.


thx  :)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on January 31, 2005, 02:41:26 PM
BS tweety... I have quit about everyu drug there is and smoking.   some were real real real unpleasnat to quit... heroin was kinda tough but it sure didn't kill me...  I used it every day for a couple of months and then quit.   pot was easy... stupid damn drug anyway.

hardest drugs to quit were booze and crank.  

but to even think that quitting smoking cold turkey is a big deal.... it's friggin laughable.   It was unpleasant.   It was unpleasant for a long time... I still wanted one after a year... still thought about smoking after 2 or three years.   Don't even think about it now or desire em in any way.   It was no harder or eaisier for me to get it out of my system than for anyone else... at 3 packs a day I would say I was about at saturation point.  

It's tough... no kidding about it... just friggin quit and get it over with..  There is no easy way or magic way.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nash on January 31, 2005, 02:51:59 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
pot was easy... stupid damn drug anyway.


I never understood having a pot addiction. I mean, I guess it happens, but I just don't get it.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 31, 2005, 02:58:49 PM
Laz are you stating there are no addictive drugs that if suddenly halted can cause stroke and seizure? Please state if you are saying that so I can blow you out of the sky.

>>BS tweety... I have quit about everyu drug there is and smoking. <<

The only BS here is that statement. Using your casual drug use as some type of text on withdrawing from specific drugs is ridiculous.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: 2stony on January 31, 2005, 03:01:48 PM
I've seen someone go through Heroin withdrawls and it's not a pretty sight.

:(
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nash on January 31, 2005, 03:02:00 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
Laz are you stating there are no addictive drugs that if suddenly halted can cause stroke and seizure?


Hell, even quitting drinking can cause that.

Prescription meds are the worst for that, though.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on January 31, 2005, 03:10:49 PM
Heroin withdrawal is gross but it won't kill you. Withdrawal from barbituates can kill you if not done properly. And as Nash stated, in some people sudden withdrawal of alcohol can cause convulsions, dt's etc.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on February 01, 2005, 08:51:59 AM
yep... and "some people" die of bee stings and others get really sick from friggin mold in their house.

I know you can give examples of people who died from sudden quitting of booze and downers but... And I bet Nash can back me up on this.... I bet we seen lots of guys and girls who quit cold turkey or weaned themselves off of both booze and heroin and while unpleasant, were no where near death (although they looked like it)...  as for "casual use"... I don't think so.   I also seen thousands of alkies in my years in AA.   never seen one die from quitting.

regarless.... sissy boy is not gonna die from quitting his sucking habit... with or without patches and hand holding.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nash on February 01, 2005, 10:15:17 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
... And I bet Nash can back me up on this....


Yeah, I've never seen anyone die from quitting. But then again, I was just in that environment long enough to do my thing and get on with it. I do know a couple of people who've quit, relapsed and OD'd because their tolerance was nowhere near what it was. But that's a different thing.

I guess the biggest parallel I can see from the cig quitting and heroin quiting is the patch/gum and methadone. Alotta addicts take that route and whooo boy it just makes things worse. It turns a couple of month process into 6 months minimum.... and some stay on methadone for the rest of their lives.

I was still smoking all through detox and around a month into rehab. It wasn't a walk in the park to quit, but my resolve was pretty strong at that point and it really did pale in comparison...

So here's a tip straight from me: if you wanna make quiting smoking easier, just become a junky and then BOOM!... quit them both. I promise that you will barely notice the nicotine withdrawl. :D

Kidding of course. Uhm.... That being said, if this or any thread is gonna help someone quit smoking, even in just some small way, what the hell... I don't got a prollem with that. All for it, in fact.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: 2stony on February 01, 2005, 10:32:43 AM
Here's a theory I use when I try and get someone to quit smoking. If you smoke a pack a day, and let's say a pack costs $3, you'd save $1,095 per year. If you start smoking in your late teens and say you're around your late 20s, that's $10,950 you'd save in ten years. We all know that a pack probably costs more than that, so you figure it out. I know I can find a lot better things to do with the money than spend it on a slow death.

:rolleyes:
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 01, 2005, 11:35:40 AM
Laz, I didn't say anyone was gonna die from quitting cigarettes or alcohol. I didn't say every person who quit barbituates cold turkey was going to die. I was making a point that addictions were different from drug to drug, from person to person. Every quit to every addiction starts with the decision and the commitment to break the addiction. After that the strategy can differ a lot depending on the person and the drug.

I wouldn't call someone a sissy for using the patch (or any NRT) if it helps them break their addiction. Its just a different strategy than cold turkey. The commitment is EXACTLY the same. I wouldn't call someone a sissy for going to AA or NA if it helps them get off alcohol or drugs. Its one strategy to realize a commitment. Twelve steps is not the only strategy though its proven successful with a lot of people. It becomes evident that its not the only strategy when its misused on people suffering from biochemical imbalances.

My point was only that addictions differ so strategies differ. The "just do it " part, is not the strategy, its the decision or commitment. Some do it without any strategy. Some need one. Whether they do or don't say's nothing about the person or their initial decision and commitment. Its more telling of their specific addiction.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on February 01, 2005, 02:47:32 PM
well... I agree with nash on this one.... seen lots of methadone junkies... they either relapsed or they stayed methadone junkies and methadone is bad enough... might as well still be on heroin... seen some who did both methadone and heroin....  recovery rate for junkies is very low long term and I think methadone just makes it worse.    Might save a few car stereos and windows from being broken but that's about it.    

I think the patch for cigs is like methadone.   It is a dumb idea... might save us from having to smell the smoke and prevent a few fires but doubt that it was ever the reason that someone was able to quit nicotene.

When junkies go back out (as nash points out) they sometimes die from an OD because their tolerance is so much lower.... at least with smoking... all that happens is that the sissy gets a little sick from the OD of nicotene.

baby the little wuss all you want... you aint doing him any good.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 01, 2005, 08:31:17 PM
>>baby the little wuss all you want... you aint doing him any good. <<

On which moon of Jupiter did formulating a strategy become babying?  Going to AA was a strategy - either yours' or the court's. You feel coddled? I assume it was YOUR strategy, because if it was court ordered, there would have not been the all important decision and commitment. You'd still be a drunk. So your strategy is good and not sissy, but other strategies are?

Which of the 12 steps is that?
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on February 02, 2005, 08:56:17 AM
tweety... when I went to AA there were no court ordered people there.   AA is sadly not the same as it was then.

No one in AA told me to drink less.   No one in NA told me to wean myself off drugs.   They told you to quit.   They told you that they had done so.   I recall that when I was telling some of them my sad story of losing everthing and how tough it was for me they busted out laughing.   My story was pretty funny to em but by no means unique.   There were no "strategies" other than to admit your addiction and quit.   They were there for you when you were trying to lie to yourself.

one of the things I find amusing is that 88 doesn't trust his own government with national security within or without the borders (neither do I particularly) but he has the utmost faith in big blobal corporations selling him snake oil in the form of "patches"... not even thinking that they are better served if he stays addicted.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 02, 2005, 11:47:32 AM
I have no delusions that GlaxoSmithKline is benevolent. They strategicaly price their product to capitalize on the addiction ( a little more than cigarettes but not too much more).

And no, it wouldn't be a great to be addicted to nicotine in any form for the rest of your life. But there is one undeniable immediate benefit. When a smoker stops using cigarettes and uses another form of delivery, lung damage stops immediately.

This best possible way to quit smoking is educate yourself on the addiction ( https://www.kintera.org/site/apps/kb/home/login.asp?kntaw1360=21863D6CDAEB430D84B41ACD07652A2A&c=dvLUK9O0E&b=38973&membershipreq=83912&targetURL=http%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Elungusa%2Eorg%2Fsite%2Fpp%2Easp%3Fc%3DdvLUK9O0E%26b%3D22933

http://whyquit.com/
)
and stop cold turkey( again lung damage stops immediately). In 3 days you'll be out of the hardest part of withdrawal and in 2 weeks you'll be 95% back to normal. But if that ain't working for you after numerous attempts, it would by stupid not to try another way of quitting.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Muckmaw1 on February 02, 2005, 01:00:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
But if that ain't working for you after numerous attempts, it would by stupid not to try another way of quitting.


Exactly correct.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on February 02, 2005, 01:49:12 PM
If quitting cold turkey don't work for you after numerous attempts then nothing else probly will.  you just aint ready to quit.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nash on February 02, 2005, 02:07:45 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
AA is sadly not the same as it was then. No one in AA told me to drink less.   No one in NA told me to wean myself off drugs.   They told you to quit.


Lazs... Is it different down there? Do they actually support weaning yourself off now?
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 02, 2005, 04:29:52 PM
>>If quitting cold turkey don't work for you after numerous attempts then nothing else probly will. you just aint ready to quit.
<<

Well thats a whole simpler than doing all that damn research on addiction , serotonin, receptors etc. I wonder why all those doctors with walls and walls of diplomas didn't think of that.
They just aint ready.

Depression - snap out of it
schizophrenia - call an exorcist
ADD - that boy aint right
bipolar- they're just being moody

Damn science. Its a lot easier to be cold.

The problem I have with tough love is its a lazy man's out. It requires less work to be mean than to be helpful.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 02, 2005, 04:38:16 PM
Stick with it Muckmaw. I have friend who was a compulsive smoker and quit with the patch. He's been nicotine free over 2 years now.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: ghi on February 02, 2005, 04:48:59 PM
i heard on the radio a doctor saying to eat carotts when need cigarettes and can quit smoking, but did't help me
     That's what i did, i went to grocery store and for 7.50$ CAD, (the price of cigarettes here), i got about 10 lbs of carotts,
    I eat lot of carotts 5-6 days,like rabits, but i got diarrhoea, lot of A vitamines improved my  eyes view, i could see cigarettes butts on the street for half mile away
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Urchin on February 02, 2005, 04:59:38 PM
LOL ghi!
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nash on February 02, 2005, 05:21:33 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Urchin
LOL ghi!


Yeah, that was frickin hilarious. :)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Elfie on February 02, 2005, 05:27:31 PM
Quote
Originally posted by ghi
i heard on the radio a doctor saying to eat carotts when need cigarettes and can quit smoking, but did't help me
     That's what i did, i went to grocery store and for 7.50$ CAD, (the price of cigarettes here), i got about 10 lbs of carotts,
    I eat lot of carotts 5-6 days,like rabits, but i got diarrhoea, lot of A vitamines improved my  eyes view, i could see cigarettes butts on the street for half mile away


:rofl
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on February 02, 2005, 11:37:51 PM
i am guessing that all of the blank posts that i am seeing by lasz are more of his craptastic views, but i squelched him days ago and have noticed that the headaches have stopped.  i recommend it for anyone suffering from the same annoying blunt tapping to your superior intellect.

ignorance is bliss.

martl"ette" too.

adios amigos.  cant say its been fun.

still hanging smoke free y'all.

thanks for the links and the support.



88
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nash on February 02, 2005, 11:45:08 PM
You cannot seem to go one day without making some form of huge rookie mistake or another. Which is too bad... because there's something there.

Ease into it a bit more, maybe?
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: patrone on February 02, 2005, 11:45:28 PM
Martl"ette",,,,,sounds girlish, hes not gonna like that, JB88.
Laz2 is just another "messerschmitter", but harmless, grain of salt comes into mind.

Good that you are smoke free, same here, 1 week totally without anything, no patches, nothing.

:p
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: montag on February 02, 2005, 11:46:19 PM
(http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/10291012/912799-image002.jpg)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on February 02, 2005, 11:47:42 PM
WTG patrone.

:)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: montag on February 02, 2005, 11:52:13 PM
(http://www.iownjoo.com/freeimghost/10291012/captain-chronic_copy.jpg)
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 03, 2005, 12:25:21 AM
You're at about 8 days now 88? Heck, you're past the hard part. In another week you'll be 95%. Good job, keep it up.

as they say "Not a single puff - evar!"
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on February 03, 2005, 12:27:35 AM
roger that tweety.  

and ty.

starting to hack up all of that gummy crap thats been sticking to my lungs all these years.

grooooossss.

lol
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Airhead on February 03, 2005, 12:32:24 AM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
well... I agree with nash on this one.... seen lots of methadone junkies... they either relapsed or they stayed methadone junkies and methadone is bad enough... might as well still be on heroin... seen some who did both methadone and heroin....  recovery rate for junkies is very low long term and I think methadone just makes it worse.    Might save a few car stereos and windows from being broken but that's about it.    

I think the patch for cigs is like methadone.   It is a dumb idea... might save us from having to smell the smoke and prevent a few fires but doubt that it was ever the reason that someone was able to quit nicotene.

When junkies go back out (as nash points out) they sometimes die from an OD because their tolerance is so much lower.... at least with smoking... all that happens is that the sissy gets a little sick from the OD of nicotene.

baby the little wuss all you want... you aint doing him any good.

lazs


When I quit cigarettes I did the patch- for bout three days, til a friend of mine asked me if the patch was a more efficient delivery system for your niccotine since it went directly into your bloodstream- I thought about it, removed the patch and quit cold turkey.

It's more what to do with your hands than anything, once you're past that you should be fine.

Just quit, it's the single best thing you can do for your health.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: NUKE on February 03, 2005, 12:41:26 AM
I saw a bum at Circle K in the middle of summer. He had his shirt off and was wandering around the parking lot with about 15 patches stuck to his chest and stomach.

Not sure how this fits into the thread .....just saying.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on February 03, 2005, 12:44:56 AM
lol.

i dont care who ya are.  thats funny right cher'
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on February 03, 2005, 08:25:08 AM
nash.. the big difference (and the worst) in AA is that the court system and government have discovered AA and NA..   They realize that all their expensive and "scientific" and compassionate (for you tweety) methods were total fairlures, often, having the oppossite ot the desired effect and creating more dependant people.

In it's infinite wisdom.... the system attached itself like a huge leach to AA and NA who had an allmost perfect recovery rate.   They "court ordered" people into the program that was not their program to begin with...  being ordered to go is exactly oppossite of what AA is all about.

I was a sectratary when these losers first started coming into the program with their neat little forms in triplicate and it was suppossedly my duty to sign them stating that these people had been there.

This is the penultimate example of tweety like inabbility to understand even the basics of AA .   Did they even look at what the acronym stood for?   Was I, for one to give up my anonymoty to sign the papers?    For the other part.... I told the guys (and girls) that we were not allowed to say anyone was there and that they could just leave if they pleased and sign the paper themselves with a phony name... there would be no way that it could be checked up on without violating our rules.

I imaging now tho that some anal busybody is a secratatary with a stopwatch and a self important stamp and is forcing them to stay till the end of the meeting and line up quietly after so that he can give his "official" sig to their court ordered document.

what a friggin joke things become when the government get's involved.


lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 03, 2005, 11:11:20 AM
What makes you think I don't understand AA, the history off AA, or that I didn't read that blue book about Bill?

"Metaphysics is a restaurant where they give you a thirty thousand page menu, and no food." -Robert Pirsig
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on February 03, 2005, 11:26:02 AM
ahhhh.  persig.

quality.  

zen and the art of mototcycle maintainance.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 03, 2005, 08:41:39 PM
That was a purple/pink  book :D
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nash on February 03, 2005, 08:49:50 PM
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
That was a purple/pink  book :D


My copy had a picture on the front.

Well said, Lazs. Ya know... it never occured to me that some of the people there were in attendance against their will. Prolly the guys that never said a word.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on February 03, 2005, 08:50:18 PM
Quote
Originally posted by lazs2
If quitting cold turkey don't work for you after numerous attempts then nothing else probly will.  you just aint ready to quit.

lazs


Really, that's all there is to it.

Don't give Lazs **** because you don't have the drive or determination to do it the only way it really works.
-SW
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 03, 2005, 08:58:23 PM
Ah Wulfe, you need to read the RED book.

"You can't solve a problem? Well, get down and investigate the present facts and its past history! When you have investigated the problem thoroughly, you will know how to solve it. Conclusions invariably come after investigation, and not before. Only a blockhead cudgels his brains on his own, or together with a group, to "find a solution" or "evolve an idea" without making any investigation. It must be stressed that this cannot possibly lead to any effective solution or any good idea." - Mao Tse-Tung
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nash on February 03, 2005, 09:10:01 PM
To back Tweety up a little, it was kind of drilled into our heads that (and I think Einstein said it) the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over yet expect a different result. Or something like that.

If cold turkey aint working, and never has, then why not try something else? What's there to lose?

But... if the patch and gum system doesn't work either, it's time to look a bit deeper.

The patch, or methadone, or whatever else... is to let ya down easy. Because there's a healthy amount of fear wrapped up in quitting anything. And at the very least, these things can be enough to bring your head around to the possibility of trying, whereas cold turkey can keep some folks on the streets or continue to be life-long smokers.

Definitely cold turkey is the best. There's no question. But if that aint gonna bring you to the table, you might as well try something else.

Just thought about it. Tomorrow marks my one year  anniversary of being released from treatment. Tonight marks my one year anniversary of the last day working on the soup lines, 6 hours of counseling, an NA or AA meeting, sleeping on some 5hitty little cot, and saying bye to some really amazing people.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 03, 2005, 10:22:33 PM
Re edits - wtg. The wierd thing is good memories can come out of dismal situations. I know its a brain trick, but to lay on a king-sized matress and miss the coziness of a shiatty little cot.. well, I've never understood the brain trick...but it happens!
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Nash on February 03, 2005, 10:27:04 PM
Absolutely...
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Airhead on February 03, 2005, 11:45:26 PM
Quote
Originally posted by Nash
To back Tweety up a little, it was kind of drilled into our heads that (and I think Einstein said it) the definition of insanity is to do the same thing over and over yet expect a different result. Or something like that.

 


The correct quote is "Redundency is doing the same thing, over and over again, and expecting a different result." And Einstein didn't say it- it was my buddy Steve, after trying to help me with a computer problem on the telephone for three hours.

He then hung up the phone and hasn't spoken to me since then.

That was back in Windows 95.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 04, 2005, 07:09:11 AM
Nah, Steve said "boinka" or something like that
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on February 04, 2005, 07:10:58 AM
i liked lila better personally.

my copy of that was torqouise.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: megadud on February 04, 2005, 07:16:41 AM
this thread is too long for me to read so  i am going to reply for the title...

i forgot the title....

smoking is bad mmk!

eat the gum chew the patch quit smokin !!!!

down with cancer stix!!!!!

Jimmy died at 23 of lung cancer....................... ................

Jimmy DIDN'T EVEN SMOKE!!!!!!!!

poor jimmy.............

second hand smoke kills!!! think of the children!!!!!

megadud
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: AKS\/\/ulfe on February 04, 2005, 08:23:21 AM
Quote
Originally posted by TweetyBird
Ah Wulfe, you need to read the RED book.


Sure, I'll get right on it.

We're talking nicotine here, not heroin or crack.

If you need to be eased off it, it's because you don't have the ability to remind yourself of why you don't want to do that crap anymore. Drive and determination, that's how you stop smoking. Not this ***** patch ****.
-SW
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: JB88 on February 04, 2005, 09:10:13 AM
i think that nuke summed it up well when he mentioned the bum walking around with 25 patches attached to his body.

quitting means quitting.

nicotine is a drug.  

you are either on the drug, or off the drug.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on February 04, 2005, 09:41:03 AM
looks like 88 is starting to man up a little.  

tweety..  Do you think that the government should be involved in AA or NA?  What do you find "scientific" about AA and can you name all the research and metodolodgy used by those groups?  Does their in house scientist run the show?

oh, and nash... congrats.   I know that junkies have the hardest time understanding and maintaining their own recovery.   I have seen junkies go back out after 10 years clean... it is a very seductive drug for some people.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 04, 2005, 10:43:20 AM
No I don't think the government should be prescribing AA, NA or any 12 step program. I don't think 12 step programs are for everyone, nor will they help everyone. Someone with a biochemical problem can turn his life over to a higher power, but unless he gets medical treatment he's still going to have a biochemical imbalance. Prescribing a 12 step program is just an easy way to move a problem somewhere else. Judges prescribe AA like "snake oil."  Its an easy way to move the problem child out of the court room and feel good about yourself for "helping" them. Its a panacea.

12 step programs are one strategy for breaking an addiction. Anyone who thinks its the only strategy or the best strategy for every case is pretty ignorant about addiction. If an underlying medical problem is causing a predisposition for addiction, it just seems obvious that underlying problem should be addressed.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 04, 2005, 11:05:33 AM
Laz in regard to the science behind 12 step programs, it would be very politcally incorrect for me to say I believe their success rate is highly inflated. Since its a tent to stow away every substance abuse problem, I think I understand why the figures are inflated.
I think the programs are helpful for people with certain personality disorders that lead to addiction. And well, thats about it. Just my opinion. What good would it be to send a person with bipolar disorder to gambler's anonymous? Yea, they may stop binge gambling, but they would binge something else - you can bet on it.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on February 04, 2005, 11:13:49 AM
tweety... their figures may be inflated... that was not my experiance but... inflated or not... they had the best results out there... no one else even came close with their pills and potions.

What "chemical imbalance" are you talking about that causes addiction?  I wasn't aware that the white coat boys had found the cause and cure of addiction.

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 04, 2005, 12:36:54 PM
Actually biochemical. A biochemical imbalance is either too much of a neurotransmitter (e.g., Serotonin, dopamine, norpinephrine), not enough of a neurotransmitter, or problems with neuroreceptors (desensitization). These transmitters and receptors are used to carry the information over the synaptic gap (the space between neurones). Many drugs artificially raise the amount of particular neurotransmitters, mimic them, or alter the receptors (e.g., nicotine alters ACh receptors).

A person with a biochemical imbalance could therefore being using certain drugs to bring the balance between receptors and transmitters to normal. Self medicating.

That said, I think the vast majority of addicts are not self medicating. I think the vast majority just like euphoria. But you don't know until you look.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on February 04, 2005, 02:13:01 PM
soo... how many addicts have been recovered using drugs to "balance" their chemicals?   What is the sucess rate?

lazs
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: Furious on February 04, 2005, 03:09:42 PM
Zyban did it for me.


Side note:  Interesting article in last months WIRED about instant (1 day) detox.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: TweetyBird on February 04, 2005, 06:34:51 PM
>>how many addicts have been recovered using drugs to "balance" their chemicals? <<

Just the ones masking conditions like schizophrenia, bipolar disorder, early alzheimer's, ADD, dimentia, degrees of autism and a few others I forget right now.

These people don't make up the majority of addicts, but that doesn't mean they should be sent to a 12 step program that will be of no help to them.
Title: quitting smoking
Post by: lazs2 on February 05, 2005, 09:01:58 AM
Tweety...  you are talking about the insane.   Admittedly, drug addiction mimics insanity but... you are talking about drugging out the insane to get them off drugs.  

Not all drugs are bad.   Very few are good tho especially as a lifetime cure.... They all have side effects and cause damage even tho they may prolong life or keep in check some of the worse forms of insanity.

We are not talking about that small little slice of the population tho unless you meant 88 specificaly.... I would have to admit that there is a possibilty that he does suffer from some of the classic insanity symptoms.... paranoia... denial... fantasy world...


lazs