Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Hardware and Software => Topic started by: Halo on January 26, 2005, 02:47:58 PM
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What's the latest thinking on whether it's better to just leave a computer on 24/7 or turn it off when not in use?
How about screen savers -- good idea or better to let screen revert to black when not in use for x number of minutes?
How about power savers, i.e., screen and computer powering down automatically when not in use for x number of minutes?
For the past couple years I've been running my computer 24/7 with that attractive aquarium screen saver and have had no problems. Screen saver comes on after 14 minutes of mouse or keyboard inactivity.
I haven't used any monitor or computer sleep settings.
What do you think? Is this still a good approach or are there better ones?
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IDE/SATA hard drives are not rated for 100% duty cycle. I would not do it.
However, my home-built router runs 24/7, but it has a couple of Seagate Cheetah SCSI drives in it.
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Thanks, Skuzzy. Over the years I've always heard that the biggest shocks computers and screens receive are when they are turned on and off.
Are you suggesting then it's better to run computers and screens more or less like going to the office, i.e., turn 'em on around 8 a.m. and turn 'em off at bedtime?
Would that be preferable to turning them on and off only when actually sitting down at the keyboard, which could result in something like six or more power-on's and power-off's on many days?
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i turn off my computer when i'm done but i let the monitor go into "sleep/standby" mode or whatever it's called, (the monitor led goes from green to orange).
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Yes Halo. And you are correct. Power up is harsh, but running your IDE/SATA drives for extended periods of time can be hard on them.
It's a balancing act, but I would turn it on in the morning, then shut it down when you are done at the end of the day.
Most modern monitors turn themselves off when they do not sense a video signal. They use about 4 Watts to keep the tube warm in that mode.
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Computer to Skuzzy: Thank you. (whew, at last some rest)
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I kinda fell for that " leave it on 24/7" idea at one time. Then my admitedly v old Chaintech 6BTM board went Phut and I reckon I should have turned the old codger off at night.
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As I was previously in tech support working with mainframes I found that those systems that were on 24/7 ran with fewer problems then those that were off at night......
When my electric bill hit $ 400 a month the PG&E guy came out and we turned things on and off while monitoring meter (amps) it seems the computers (3) where drawing a lot of power (400+ watts * 3) .... Since then been turning off at night..... No problems since.....
Turning on and off gives thermal shock to semi's when going from room temp to very hot.... Being specifically in the disk business from the days of Noah (those Camels are nasty) I can tell you that leaving the drives on is fine..... Actually recommended back when sticksion was a problem....
Now however my systems don't stick around long enough to break..... I turn them off....
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Maddog, a few years ago, I would have readily agreed about the hard drives, but not today.
IDE/SATA hard drives are a commodity product. They use plastic races for the bearings in the spindle motors. While this makes them much quieter, they do not last as long when left running 24/7.
Today, a typical IDE/SATA drive will last about 18 to 24 months before failing. You can almost set your calendar to it.
Sure, some will last longer, but you are living on the edge if you allow them to be used past 2 years.
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Is running the computer in "sleep mode" at night just as good as turning it off? I just enjoyed the ability to move the mouse and have it wake up, but if it's going to eat my HD, I'd rather leave it off :rolleyes:
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I'm a firm believer in placing the computer in standby mode overnight. Why use electricity and wear down your hard drives when you are snoring? Sometimes I have six programs open with various projects in various stages of completion. I always save often, especially before placing computer in standby, but I want to get my desktop back the next morning the same way I left it at night. Standby strikes me as being the best option.
Keep in mind that various motherboards have different levels of standby. Some run the fans and other items even while in standby. Others turn off the fans. If your MB supports more than one standby scheme, you can switch back and forth in the power management section of your BIOS.
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"Wear down your hard drive?" "Plastic Bearing Races?" Pish Posh, at least for Seagate.
My computers are ALWAYS on 24/7. Every single one of them. And I don't even let them power down during inactivity anymore. My rate of hard drive failure compared to those of my clients (none of whom leave them on 24/7) is is *much better*. Yes, this is anecdotal and therefore not terribly useful, but this "count on a failure every two years" statement does not jive with my experiences.
Furthermore, modern fluid bearing don't have the same wear characteristics as the old physical bearings. There aren't traditional races to wear down any more.
New seagate drives have a 5 year warranty with a 600,000 power-on hour mean time between failure rating., which is 68 years. Obviously, this is a logrithmic failure scale and they think that an acceptable X% failure rate happens at 600,000 on their curve, and therefore individual experiences vary and this figure isn't meant to be gospel, PLUS I don't know about other manufacturers these days, but I will expect at least 5 years of use from these drives as a reult.
And finally, in my (counts fingers and toes) 15 years computer consulting experience, the biggest killers of hard drives are: 1) heat, 2) irregular power, either from a failing power supply, or from building-supplied power that is iffy. Using an uninturruptable power supply to clean your electricity is the #1 way to keep your hard drive (and indeed, the whole PC) happy over the long haul.
So anyway, here's a note from someone who has no fear keeping those drives humming 24/7.
-Llama
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LLama, next time you get a dead WD or Maxtor IDE drive, open them up. You will be in for a surprise.
Not all drives are mechanically the same, and they will differe from manufacturer to manufacturer, but we have ahd drives from WD, IBM, Maxtor, and Seagate all fail within two years. IDE only. Not SCSI. Those are a different breed.
Now I am talking about drives which have been manufactured in the last two years. Most of the IDE drives on the market do not have anything much better than a 1 year warranty on them.
I'd like the model numbers of those Seagates you are referring to, as I have not seen anything like that at Best Buy, CompUSA, or any other retail store, which is where many people are going to be buying them.
I am sure there are better quality drives, but most people will end up with the el cheapo line, especially if they buy an OEM computer.
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Skuzzy,
Here is the last drive I got from Newegg sometime over a year ago still listed with a 5 year warranty. I have another Seagate 60 GB in this rig that's bout 3 years old and a 30 GB Seagate in my Guam rig that is almost 4 years old. So far, still working fine. They are all from the 7200 rpm IDE Barracuda series.
I do turn on my PC about 7:30 AM and turn it off when I go to bed and I always run through a UPS.
Seagate 160GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model ST3160023A, OEM (limit 20 per customer)
- Specifications -
Capacity: 160GB
Average Seek Time: 8.5 ms
Buffer: 8MB
Rotational Speed: 7200 RPM
Interface: IDE ULTRA ATA100
Features: 350 Gs non-op shock, 3D Defense System
Manufacturer Warranty: 5 years
Packaging: OEM
Model#: ST3160023A
Item#: N82E16822148025
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Ahhh shoot, I have had two of those drives die within 2 years. One died in 17 months.
I didn't even look at the warranty time period on them. Didn't really matter. The warranty does no good to make up for the lost time of the failure.
The glass-filled bushing (might be ceramic) on the end of the spindle motor wore to excess on those two failures.
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my seagate scsi's are still running '98 vintage ...
my 1st 6 gig maxtor lasted just shy of 5 years .
All of my WD hd's have died just after a year or so .. and ive seen lots of bad slim seagates that were 1-2 yrs old
just my 2 1/2 cents worth.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
Ahhh shoot, I have had two of those drives die within 2 years. One died in 17 months.
I didn't even look at the warranty time period on them. Didn't really matter. The warranty does no good to make up for the lost time of the failure.
The glass-filled bushing (might be ceramic) on the end of the spindle motor wore to excess on those two failures.
Was there any warning such as noise before they failed or is it just going to be a surprise?
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In these cases, noise levels increased, much like metal on metal screeching/whine. Not loud, but it was there. One of them just stopped one day, the other one started getting severe read/write failures and failed in a few hours after that.
Not much notice in either case.
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Hard drives definetly wear out with time.
On the other side i have had lots of computers working fine day and night but when switched off would not start again.
My guess is that switching off overnight or eaven for longer makes the comp last longer. Especially with cheap motherboard/powersupply/hd. On motherboards i have seen parts blown, suspecting the cheap brand motherboards are not made to run 24 hours.
BUT when you know the hard drive is bad because it makes noises i would try to save the data before switching off, eaven if that makes for running 3 days or so.
Also i have seen hard drives no longer running but when turning them upside down i was able to get the data of them, because they ran ok upside down. Something with the bearings.
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Ive had some make noises (usually on start up they kinda rattle or screech/scrape) or they start corrupting and losing data .
or they just quit no warning, no luv rattles nothing.
one trick to help tell if a hard drive is going thru hell is to lay a finger on top of it and feel if its getting overly hot .(this can be a indicator to pre failure)
I myself use a second hard drive for my backups and disconnect it when not in use . along with cd burns of stuff also .
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Thanks for the replies. I will be listening. It should be fairly easy for me since my PC is virtually silent. The tower is inside a bay in my desk with an external radiator cooled by 2 slow turning SilnX 120 fans.
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Originally posted by Skuzzy
LLama, next time you get a dead WD or Maxtor IDE drive, open them up. You will be in for a surprise.
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I'd like the model numbers of those Seagates you are referring to, as I have not seen anything like that at Best Buy, CompUSA, or any other retail store, which is where many people are going to be buying them.
I am sure there are better quality drives, but most people will end up with the el cheapo line, especially if they buy an OEM computer.
Skuzzy,
These days I've been specifying Barracuda 7200.7 drives, which have the alternate designation of ST3200822AS. These are SATA drives, but are mechanically identical to the PATA Barracuda drives. I find these at Fry's, Newegg, CDW, and CompUSA. They aren't really any more expensive than other brands.
Regarding warranties - well, you're in for a surprise: check out http://info.seagate.com/mk/get/AMER_WARRANTY_0704_JUMP where you'll find:
"...Now every Seagate internal hard drive for PCs, notebook computers and entry-level servers purchased from an authorized Seagate Distributor and Reseller will be covered under our unprecedented 5-Year Warranty...." This even applies retroactively to drives that have documentation stating a one-year warranty, if the drive was purchased after July 26, 2004.
External storage units have a different warranty.
And finally, what REALLY concerns me about hard drives is not the mechanical issues, but the thermal issues.
The PCBs on these drives deal with more thermal cycling issues than almost any other PCB-based component in the PC (this therefore excludes the CPU itself or the power supply, as these aren't PCBs.) Hard drive PCBs go from room temp (20C) to hot (45C) and back every time you turn it off, while the mainboard itself generally deals with a far smaller temperature differential. Given all the teeny tiny components and teeny tiny traces on a hard drive PCB, personally, I'd rather keep the PCB at operating temperature for as long as possible, and let fluid bearings just do their job.
But finally, I think you and I both agree that hard drives should be viewed as disposable commodies, like brake pads and tires on a car, and data backup precautions should be paramount on everyone's mind. I think our opinions only differ on the best way to keep these parts in service for the longest amount of time, and maybe what that in-service interval is.
As always, I'd love to hear more info on this...
-Llama