Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: T0J0 on January 27, 2005, 09:17:41 AM
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1: Smokers
2: Overweight workers
3: Drinkers are next
Sober up gentlemen the flight sim community is the target next!!
US businessman targets fat employees with slim or quit threat
27 January 2005 10:42
The owner of a US company who forced his employees to quit smoking or leave their jobs has now said he also wants to tell fat workers to lose weight or else.
His ban on tobacco use, at home or in the workplace, led four employees to quit their jobs last week at Michigan-based Weyco, which handles insurance claims, reports Reuters.
The employees refused to take a mandatory urine test required of Weyco's 200 staff by founder and sole owner Howard Weyers, a demand he said was legal.
"If they don't want to take the test, they can leave," Weyers told Reuters. "I'm not controlling their lives; they have a choice whether they want to work here."
Overweight workers are next in the firing line for Weyers.
"We have to work on eating habits and getting people to exercise. But if you are obese, you are protected," he said.
He has brought in an eating disorder therapist to speak to workers, provided eating coaches, created a point system for employees to earn health-related $100 (£53) bonuses and plans to offer $45 (£24) vouchers for health club memberships.
Last year, Weyers banned smoking during office hours, then demanded smokers pay a monthly $50 (£27) "assessment," and finally instituted mandatory testing. Twenty workers quit smoking as a result.
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This will make for a great discrimination lawsuit, ome folks are about to get asn awesome retirement package. Might even be a good idea to short their stock too if it's a public company. ;)
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The Who only recorded "Who's Next", they never recorded a "Revisited"
Karaya
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So we all have to become "slimbill" nonsmoking training fanatics all of us to get a job or stay in the old.
What about those who fly private airplanes or do mountain climbing is that risk factor to hight too ?
And even better we must all stop driving a car because it is pretty dangerous statisticly, all soldiers in the world must be fired because the are in a risky job. (same goes for police and firemens too)
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And some will see this as a good thing (those that think paternalistic is cute and lovable). I'd shove a box of krispy creams (cardboard and all) down his throat before "choosing not to work there."
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The new american Master working race...
Now this whole issue seems to third reichish....
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Originally posted by T0J0
1: Smokers
2: Overweight workers
3: Drinkers are next
Aren't alcoholics covered by ADA?
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screw you. dont wanna work for you, you tight arse breadlip motha f.
see ya. wouldnt wanna be ya.
massa.
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looks like it has the fat smokers really upset :)
around here I'd be safe to say the smokers work 45 to 60 minutes less a day than the non smokers as they are allowed to smoke whenever they have to
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well.... I'm not fat and I don't smoke or drink. More jobs for me once we get rid of the drunken, hacking fatso's
getting rid of the smokers just puts more pressure on guys like jb88 who don't do well under pressure anyway.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
well.... I'm not fat and I don't smoke or drink. More jobs for me once we get rid of the drunken, hacking fatso's
getting rid of the smokers just puts more pressure on guys like jb88 who don't do well under pressure anyway.
lazs
Yeah those Liberal school grads arn't used to real world pressure too much... The only use of the word pressure in Liberal arts college is the amount of effert it takes to get the bong water perculating.
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Originally posted by T0J0
The new american Master working race...
Now this whole issue seems to third reichish....
ONE buisiness owner bullying his workers is *third reichish*? :rolleyes:
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Originally posted by Elfie
ONE buisiness owner bullying his workers is *third reichish*? :rolleyes:
Arian race=Master working race
It was meant to be humor...
Wasn't that obvious though
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This is a good business move by this guy. The workers he has left will be healthier, more productive, and will miss less workdays for health reasons. His health insurance premiums should also go down. It's his business, he's the sole owner, he can do what he wants with it. Good for him.
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Originally posted by GRUNHERZ
This will make for a great discrimination lawsuit, ome folks are about to get asn awesome retirement package. Might even be a good idea to short their stock too if it's a public company. ;)
Doubt it will make a lawsuit at all. More than likely he is in a right to work state and the workers will have to deal with his "requirements" to stay at the job. I say kudos to him for encouraging a better lifestyle on those that do not have the gumption to do it themselves. If they do not like it, they can exercise their rights and quit.
Oh, and as someone else said, I bet his insurance premiums go down big time!
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To fire someone thats already working for you because they are fat or they smoke is BULLCHIT!!!
Now I you decide that you want to make a new policy of not hiring anyone who smokes or is whom you deem over weight
then thats different even though I still think it smells of discrimination.
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Originally posted by wombatt
To fire someone thats already working for you because they are fat or they smoke is BULLCHIT!!!
Now I you decide that you want to make a new policy of not hiring anyone who smokes or is whom you deem over weight
then thats different even though I still think it smells of discrimination.
you're fired.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
you're fired.
Kiss my butt Donald duck MOFO:D
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This guy has got just be sick of running a business and wants to go out in a blaze of glory and media hype.
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Heck I applaud the guy
At my last job, I endured working with a married couple. In a 3 man shop, 2/3 of it was out, every hour...on the hour...for a 15 minute smoke break. Oh but dont you worry, if they were asked to stay a minute after 5:00, they were insisting on overtime.
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Where does it end though...
smoking...
fat...
drinking...
you watch TV? its bad for your eyes.
you watch porn? you're a deviant.
what sort of car do you drive? is it a volvo? if nots its not safe enough ditch it and buy a volvo...
and so on.
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It's quite simple. Right now its an employers market and you have choices in who you employ or who you don't. I can see not smoking on the work dime but smoking on your own I'd just say you arent eligable for insurance.
Smoking is a choice just like working.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
Doubt it will make a lawsuit at all. More than likely he is in a right to work state and the workers will have to deal with his "requirements" to stay at the job. I say kudos to him for encouraging a better lifestyle on those that do not have the gumption to do it themselves. If they do not like it, they can exercise their rights and quit.
Oh, and as someone else said, I bet his insurance premiums go down big time!
Encouraging his workers to have a better lifestyle? More like demanding that they do as he wants or they lose their job.
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Originally posted by Elfie
Encouraging his workers to have a better lifestyle? More like demanding that they do as he wants or they lose their job.
The military requires you to maintain physical fitness standards I don't see why civilian employers can't do the same.
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People shouldn't be forced to get a companies insurance either. They should be allowed the option to find other companies. By making them take your companies insurance and then adding clauses later that say your violating company insurance rules is absurd. It's a cheap way to do as you please and make your own rules as you go along.
Tell them it's illegal to smoke at work, fine. To tell them they have to quit smoking because your on our insurance policy is just wrong. Same goes with forcing people work out just because they are forced to take your insurance policy.
If this owner is really concerned about the health of his/her employees then they'd have offered the options to quit smoking and get healthy earlier. Not force them now to make a choice or else. They are just trying to get a good rate on insurance policies so they can stuff more money in the owners pockets.
I can bet if they gave them the option of purchasing their own insurance alot of this wouldn't be an issue. I can also bet if they said the money saved on company insurance policies would go to raises and other benefits to the workers they'd be more willing to change their life style. To tell them you have to quit or your fired is bs. They aren't committing any crimes. They are violating your new insurance policy because you give them no other options other than your insurance policy.
It's much like getting insurance to drive a vehicle. You have to meet certain standards of coverage depending on your state to be able to drive in that state. They should make it so the workers have the option of purchasing their own insurance and keeping their jobs so long as that policy meets certain guidelines. The insurance policy would have to cover for the type of job you have so it would not cause any burden on the company you work for if you are injured in any way on the job.
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Wanna really save a company money? Take the burden of offering health care benefits off of them
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
The military requires you to maintain physical fitness standards I don't see why civilian employers can't do the same.
Thats the military.....this is a civilian who is trying to force his employees to change their habits. This is America.....there is something that is fundamentally wrong about all of this.
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So all companies have to offer health care benefits? I don't think so . It's the difference though as to whether or not someone will work for you though if you don't offer them. If you don't atleast offer it then the skilled workers will turn to someone else to work for instead. Which means the competition offering such benefits will be a better choice for all the skilled workers out there.
If the costs of medical care itself weren't so over inflated then medical insurance wouldn't be so over priced either.
I've seen the costs for my medical appointments and my wifes where they lasted no more than 15 minutes with nothing more than your okay and they charged ungodly amounts to our insurance company. Maybe they should take into account for appointments that weren't met on time either for routine checkups. Charge the medical care facilities for failing to meet their appointment on time and wasting my time away from my job in the process.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
The military requires you to maintain physical fitness standards I don't see why civilian employers can't do the same.
Do they boot you out if you smoke off duty?
shamus
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Isnt there a federal law that requires employers to provide health insurance?
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Originally posted by Elfie
Isnt there a federal law that requires employers to provide health insurance?
Nope.
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Originally posted by Shamus
Do they boot you out if you smoke off duty?
shamus
honestly it depends on the duty!
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Originally posted by Raubvogel
This is a good business move by this guy. The workers he has left will be healthier, more productive, and will miss less workdays for health reasons.
LOL I never used to call out sick when I was sick
Who woould want to waste a perfectly good paid sick day being sick?
Although I did call out when my "Bassitus" was acting up.
which is an affliction of the right shoulder and elbow and left wrist and hand
Only one cure for "Bassitus".
but fortunately it is treatable
you have to either sit in a a boat or stand on the shore of a lake and cast a fishing line into the water with bait or lure attached and reeling it in over and over and over again.
Sometimes it lasts ALL DAY.
Hell sometimes it would even last two whole days.
Oddly enough it never lasts longer then that.
A real strange coincidence I noticed is that also happened to be the amount of sick days you could take off in a row without needing a doctors note.
those were the only sick days I ever took.
Well those and sick of work days.
My motto was why be greedy waste a good case of the flu on yourself when you can share it with the whole company.
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Originally posted by T0J0
1: Smokers
2: Overweight workers
3: Drinkers are next
Reminds me of a story years ago about some jackball that banned cotton clothing because it wrinkled too much. (It was a govt office building of some kind).
While I'm WAY TOO conditioned to control freaks (DoD, who'd a thunkit)... my contempt for them grows with every passing day.
I hope this guy gets a nice fat lawsuit thrown at him.
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If a company requires that you do any driving for them they usually require that you have a clean licence and you can be fired for too many citations that up their insurance or a drunk/reckless driving..
lazs
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
honestly it depends on the duty!
Really? can you give me a MOS that precludes smoking off duty?
shamus
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Originally posted by Shamus
Really? can you give me a MOS that precludes smoking off duty?
shamus
The guards at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier are not allowed to drink or smoke, on or off duty during the term they take the assignement.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
The guards at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier are not allowed to drink or smoke, on or off duty during the term they take the assignement.
Don't know if it is mandatory now but back in the day Bravo4 It was highly suggested that you did not smoke as a smokers cough could give up your position.
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Originally posted by Bodhi
The guards at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier are not allowed to drink or smoke, on or off duty during the term they take the assignement.
The difference being... they know it before hand and it's voluntary. Naturally, the same "voluntary" applies to civilians who get hit with the control freak thing as boss decides to change the rules, but it's different, and it's wrong.
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Originally posted by LePaul
Wanna really save a company money? Take the burden of offering health care benefits off of them
There is no burden imposed on them.
Military?? No comparison. You sign away most of your rights when you join. It's a contract thing.
On the job, no smoking rules are fine. Off the clock? The time is theirs. Smoking is not yet illegal.
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I could only think of the bravo 4s. Cause the cigerette butts could light the bull cheese on fire and kill everyone.
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why should the employer have to pay for your unhealthy habit? why should the non smoking co-workers be forced to pay more to cover the slacker smokers?
I think its a great idea
smoking is for the weak
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I'm curious as to why anyone thinks anyone besides the business owner has any rights?
Even if they do, they won't in about 10 years. Actually... the whole sexual harrasment thing is beyond stupid to... if I, as a male company owner, want to hire a female to work for my company.. I should have the right to **** her whenever and where ever I want. I'm not MAKING her work for me after all... if she doesn't like it she can ****ing well quit.
Welcome to the United States of You-Don't-Mean-A-****ing-Thing-Unless-You-Are-Wealthy-ca.
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Originally posted by Urchin
I'm curious as to why anyone thinks anyone besides the business owner has any rights?
Even if they do, they won't in about 10 years. Actually... the whole sexual harrasment thing is beyond stupid to... if I, as a male company owner, want to hire a female to work for my company.. I should have the right to **** her whenever and where ever I want. I'm not MAKING her work for me after all... if she doesn't like it she can ****ing well quit.
Welcome to the United States of You-Don't-Mean-A-****ing-Thing-Unless-You-Are-Wealthy-ca.
You have got to be kidding?!
Become a Muslim, your thinking fits in with them..
TOJO
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Originally posted by T0J0
You have got to be kidding?!
Become a Muslim, your thinking fits in with them..
TOJO
LOL, I think he was being sarcastic. Sarcastically it was funny :)
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Originally posted by Eagler
smoking is for the weak
Non-smokers are all bible-thumping zealots unable to survive without leaning on some mythical omnipotent being.
Weak? Slightly stereotypical?
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Hey Lazs, you own guns right? Hmmm, thats risky, sorry you're fired.
Next step gene testing ;) and hullo Gattaca!
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Originally posted by Shamus
Really? can you give me a MOS that precludes smoking off duty?
shamus
nope....not an MOS
I can however, give you an example of a duty assignment.
Any AETC technical school student, no matter the length of the school are not allowed to use tobacco on or off duty while in student status.
Basic training would be another example.
I've also heard that several ships as well as submarines may be going tobacco free
Out in the field we were not allowed to smoke unless the perverbial "smoking lamp" was lit.
In either incidence if you are caught you can get article 15 non-judicial punishment. Depending on the service and carreer field that could mean involuntary seperation in less than 6 months.
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Gunslinger when I was at school for my 7 level you couldn't smoke during duty hours and that was it. I was technically an AETC student at the time. Now I'm not sure how the rules have changed for first time students. When I was there for my first time you couldn't smoke during duty hours or while in uniform. You could however smoke off duty in designated areas. Even as a phase 4 student or permissive TDY student you could still drink and smoke if you were of age and off duty hours.
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Originally posted by Cobra412
Gunslinger when I was at school for my 7 level you couldn't smoke during duty hours and that was it. I was technically an AETC student at the time. Now I'm not sure how the rules have changed for first time students. When I was there for my first time you couldn't smoke during duty hours or while in uniform. You could however smoke off duty in designated areas. Even as a phase 4 student or permissive TDY student you could still drink and smoke if you were of age and off duty hours.
The trick with that is they just dont allow you to wear civilian atire.....
when I was at shepard even as a TDY student they told me I wasnt allowed to smoke at all. Either way I did it anyways. The point I was trying to make is that you can be ordered not to smoke while in the military or face disciplinary actions. I've seen it happen.
Also, I'm goin to 7 level school in 2 weeks. I know my instructer and the guy I'm goin with is bringing his truck so we'll be spending break time out there!
Pretty stupid if you ask me though. I'd like to see them tell a chief he can't smoke.
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Well if I remember correctly 3rd and 4th phase students are authorized to wear civilian attire. Also people who go through schools as long as mine was end up through phase cycles fairly quickly. I was given 4th phase upon arriving at Sheppard and then after I completed my basic course and went to another specialty class I was given permissive TDY status.
This came with a nice letter from my commander at the time. It was very nice to to pull that letter out and rub it in MTLs faces. We had no curfew, no restrictions on drinking or smoking other than doing it in designated areas and no marching or pc. To top it off we just had to be sure to show up to class everyday(sober ofcourse). I stayed off base the majority of that time. I even came back in one night with enough time to shower and get ready for school. By that time I had been in school for almost 7 months and that's not including basic training.
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Originally posted by Pongo
I could only think of the bravo 4s. Cause the cigerette butts could light the bull cheese on fire and kill everyone.
Just North of the border:aok
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either way you can be ORDERED not to smoke while in the military. I think I've proven my point.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
either way you can be ORDERED not to smoke while in the military. I think I've proven my point.
You can be ordered to do many things in the military.
To compare like situations though, would you feel it would be fair for the military to state, "as of such and such a date smoking is not allowed" , fail the test or refuse to take it your out?
shamus
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Originally posted by Lazerus
Military??
[/B]
OK, we got that straight, but this aint about the military.
On the job, no smoking rules are fine. Off the clock? The time is theirs. Smoking is not yet illegal.
What allows them to dictate your activity while you are not on their time?
Insurance?
I've never seen a company that offered insurance that you couldn't decline.
I have yet to see one position proposed that would legaly allow them to do this.
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vulcan.... about the gtuns thing... they are trying to fire people for owning guns. In several states and in my city they are trying to fire people for having guns legally stored in their vehicles. My city for instance, wants to make it illegal even tho you are parked on a public street.
There is a huge court case going on over this in Oklahoma. It is about as important as the cases over suing gun manufacturers for making a safe reliable product but then being sued when people missuse it.
In my opinion... if ciggarette manufacturers claim that their product is healthy and is not they should be sued. If mcdonalds knowingly claims less calories or fat or whatever than is really the case then they could be sued.
lazs
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Originally posted by lazs2
vulcan.... about the gtuns thing... they are trying to fire people for owning guns. In several states and in my city they are trying to fire people for having guns legally stored in their vehicles. My city for instance, wants to make it illegal even tho you are parked on a public street.
There is a huge court case going on over this in Oklahoma. It is about as important as the cases over suing gun manufacturers for making a safe reliable product but then being sued when people missuse it.
In my opinion... if ciggarette manufacturers claim that their product is healthy and is not they should be sued. If mcdonalds knowingly claims less calories or fat or whatever than is really the case then they could be sued.
lazs
but laz now you are referring to property rights. If a company owns the property they have every right not to allow employees not to bring/store firearms on the premisis. BUT, unless you agree to it they can't search your car.
Shamus/Lazerus if you would have read the thread it was about physical fitness as well.
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gunslinger.... no.. in the case of my city and several others, they are saying that you can't have em in the car even on public streets. If they are locked up according to the law then It shouldn't matter about the parking lot. You still have to obey state motor vehicle laws in private parking lots.... You can get a ticket for reckless driving for instance in a parkling lot.
lazs
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
Shamus/Lazerus if you would have read the thread it was about physical fitness as well.
Gunslinger, I thought you were using the physical fitness requirements in the military to justify canning someone for smoking on thier off time in the private sector.
If you were just pointing out that a certain fitness level was required to perform one's duties..you and I are in agreement..that applies in many private sector jobs ase well.
I was addressing the smoking off duty only.
shamus
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Originally posted by Shamus
Gunslinger, I thought you were using the physical fitness requirements in the military to justify canning someone for smoking on thier off time in the private sector.
If you were just pointing out that a certain fitness level was required to perform one's duties..you and I are in agreement..that applies in many private sector jobs ase well.
I was addressing the smoking off duty only.
shamus
I'm not saying I agree with an employer having that much control of your life but I made the point that as well as the fitness requirements the military can order you not to smoke as well....someone wanted me to prove my point....that's all that was.
I still think that in 5 years the employers market will be over. There will be a national labor shortage and employers would not be able to get away with this crap if they want quality workers.
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We'll just be importing workers... you don't have to pay them hardly anything, no benefits.. and English is over-rated anyway.
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Another interesting thought diversion...if the employee's smoking is affecting that business owner's insurance costs, then that effects his customer, since he has to charge more to cover expeneses. So in a way, he's striving to offer a better, more competitive service by reducing as many costs as he can.
One thing I didnt realize when i read up on the story some more...he picked up the tab for his employees willing to quit smoking. It isnt like he came in one day and said "Anyone who smokes is outta here next week"
Unless his employees are hired under some sort of offer/contract...if they are simply employees at will, they can will to leave.