Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Muckmaw1 on January 27, 2005, 02:16:46 PM
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I don't know. Maybe I just don't respect their religion.
I guess I'm a bigot, but I say go ahead with this type of Aggressive interrogation. If it will save the lives of innocents, I guess I'm in favor of Psychological Torture.
AP: Gitmo Soldier Details Sexual Tactics
1 hour, 2 minutes ago
By PAISLEY DODDS, Associated Press Writer
SAN JUAN, Puerto Rico - Female interrogators tried to break Muslim detainees at the U.S. prison camp in Guantanamo Bay by sexual touching, wearing a miniskirt and thong underwear and in one case smearing a Saudi man's face with fake menstrual blood, according to an insider's written account.
AP Photo
A draft manuscript obtained by The Associated Press is classified as secret pending a Pentagon (news - web sites) review for a planned book that details ways the U.S. military used women as part of tougher physical and psychological interrogation tactics to get terror suspects to talk.
It's the most revealing account so far of interrogations at the secretive detention camp, where officials say they have halted some controversial techniques.
"I have really struggled with this because the detainees, their families and much of the world will think this is a religious war based on some of the techniques used, even though it is not the case," the author, former Army Sgt. Erik R. Saar, 29, told AP.
Saar didn't provide the manuscript or approach AP, but confirmed the authenticity of nine draft pages AP obtained. He requested his hometown remain private so he wouldn't be harassed.
Saar, who is neither Muslim nor of Arab descent, worked as an Arabic translator at the U.S. camp in eastern Cuba from December 2002 to June 2003. At the time, it was under the command of Maj. Gen. Geoffrey Miller, who had a mandate to get better intelligence from prisoners, including alleged al-Qaida members caught in Afghanistan (news - web sites).
Saar said he witnessed about 20 interrogations and about three months after his arrival at the remote U.S. base he started noticing "disturbing" practices.
One female civilian contractor used a special outfit that included a miniskirt, thong underwear and a bra during late-night interrogations with prisoners, mostly Muslim men who consider it taboo to have close contact with women who aren't their wives.
Beginning in April 2003, "there hung a short skirt and thong underwear on the hook on the back of the door" of one interrogation team's office, he writes. "Later I learned that this outfit was used for interrogations by one of the female civilian contractors ... on a team which conducted interrogations in the middle of the night on Saudi men who were refusing to talk."
Some Guantanamo prisoners who have been released say they were tormented by "prostitutes."
In another case, Saar describes a female military interrogator questioning an uncooperative 21-year-old Saudi detainee who allegedly had taken flying lessons in Arizona before the Sept. 11 terror attacks. Suspected Sept. 11 hijacker Hani Hanjour received pilot instruction for three months in 1996 and in December 1997 at a flight school in Scottsdale, Ariz.
"His female interrogator decided that she needed to turn up the heat," Saar writes, saying she repeatedly asked the detainee who had sent him to Arizona, telling him he could "cooperate" or "have no hope whatsoever of ever leaving this place or talking to a lawyer.'"
The man closed his eyes and began to pray, Saar writes.
The female interrogator wanted to "break him," Saar adds, describing how she removed her uniform top to expose a tight-fitting T-shirt and began taunting the detainee, touching her breasts, rubbing them against the prisoner's back and commenting on his apparent erection.
The detainee looked up and spat in her face, the manuscript recounts.
The interrogator left the room to ask a Muslim linguist how she could break the prisoner's reliance on God. The linguist told her to tell the detainee that she was menstruating, touch him, then make sure to turn off the water in his cell so he couldn't wash.
Strict interpretation of Islamic law forbids physical contact with women other than a man's wife or family, and with any menstruating women, who are considered unclean.
"The concept was to make the detainee feel that after talking to her he was unclean and was unable to go before his God in prayer and gain strength," says the draft, stamped "Secret."
The interrogator used ink from a red pen to fool the detainee, Saar writes.
"She then started to place her hands in her pants as she walked behind the detainee," he says. "As she circled around him he could see that she was taking her hand out of her pants. When it became visible the detainee saw what appeared to be red blood on her hand. She said, 'Who sent you to Arizona?' He then glared at her with a piercing look of hatred.
"She then wiped the red ink on his face. He shouted at the top of his lungs, spat at her and lunged forward" — so fiercely that he broke loose from one ankle shackle.
"He began to cry like a baby," the draft says, noting the interrogator left saying, "Have a fun night in your cell without any water to clean yourself."
Events Saar describes resemble two previous reports of abusive female interrogation tactics, although it wasn't possible to independently verify his account.
In November, in response to an AP request, the military described an April 2003 incident in which a female interrogator took off her uniform top, exposed her brown T-shirt, ran her fingers through a detainee's hair and sat on his lap. That session was immediately ended by a supervisor and that interrogator received a written reprimand and additional training, the military said.
In another incident, the military reported that in early 2003 a different female interrogator "wiped dye from red magic marker on detainees' shirt after detainee spit (cq) on her," telling the detainee it was blood. She was verbally reprimanded, the military said.
Sexual tactics used by female interrogators have been criticized by the FBI (news - web sites), which complained in a letter obtained by AP last month that U.S. defense officials hadn't acted on complaints by FBI observers of "highly aggressive" interrogation techniques, including one in which a female interrogator grabbed a detainee's genitals.
About 20 percent of the guards at Guantanamo are women, said Lt. Col. James Marshall, a spokesman for U.S. Southern Command. He wouldn't say how many of the interrogators were female.
Marshall wouldn't address whether the U.S. military had a specific strategy to use women.
"U.S. forces treat all detainees and conduct all interrogations, wherever they may occur, humanely and consistent with U.S. legal obligations, and in particular with legal obligations prohibiting torture," Marshall said Thursday.
But some officials at the U.S. Southern Command have questioned the formation of an all-female team as one of Guantanamo's "Immediate Reaction Force" units that subdue troublesome male prisoners in their cells, according to a document classified as secret and obtained by AP.
In one incident, dated June 19, 2004, "The detainee appears to be genuinely traumatized by a female escort securing the detainee's leg irons," according to the document, a U.S. Southern Command summary of videotapes shot when the teams were used.
The summary warned that anyone outside Department of Defense (news - web sites) channels should be prepared to address allegations that women were used intentionally with Muslim men.
At Guantanamo, Saar said, "Interrogators were given a lot of latitude under Miller," the commander who went from the prison in Cuba to overseeing prisons in Iraq (news - web sites), where the Abu Ghraib scandal shocked the world with pictures revealing sexual humiliation of naked prisoners.
Several female troops have been charged in the Abu Ghraib scandal.
Saar said he volunteered to go to Guantanamo because "I really believed in the mission," but then he became disillusioned during his six months at the prison.
After leaving the Army with more than four years service, Saar worked as a contractor briefly for the FBI.
The Department of Defense has censored parts of his draft, mainly blacking out people's names, Saar said. He needed permission to publish because he signed a disclosure statement before going to Guantanamo.
The book, which Saar titled "Inside the Wire," is due out this year with Penguin Press.
Guantanamo has about 545 prisoners from some 40 countries, many held more than three years without charge or access to lawyers and many suspected of links to al-Qaida or Afghanistan's ousted Taliban regime, which harbored the terrorist network.
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sex sells!
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One of the blowbacks of Bush taking such a moral highground.
How can you fight a saintly war?
So it's ok to kill the enemy but you can't shake your titties in his face? :rolleyes:
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Thats agresive? I want to be tied up and tormanted by prostitutes too. Room and food free, wonder what I did wrong in life, hmmmm
If that guy did take flying lessons and refusing to talk, I don't see why they are so nice to him. Start removing parts until he talks.
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Originally posted by dedalos
Thats agresive? I want to be tied up and tormanted by prostitutes too. Room and food free, wonder what I did wrong in life, hmmmm
If that guy did take flying lessons and refusing to talk, I don't see why they are so nice to him. Start removing parts until he talks.
I absolutely agree.
Kill americans and let their justice system protect you from punishment! jessus why NOT attack us?
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In November, in response to an AP request, the military described an April 2003 incident in which a female interrogator took off her uniform top, exposed her brown T-shirt, ran her fingers through a detainee's hair and sat on his lap
My God how did they survive this kind of treatment:rolleyes:
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Originally posted by wombatt
In November, in response to an AP request, the military described an April 2003 incident in which a female interrogator took off her uniform top, exposed her brown T-shirt, ran her fingers through a detainee's hair and sat on his lap
My God how did they survive this kind of treatment:rolleyes:
And he did not have to pay the $20????? this is an outrage after all :mad:
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Originally posted by dedalos
And he did not have to pay the $20????? this is an outrage after all :mad:
Geebus can this really get any more retarded?
Freekin cry babies LOL I cant stop laughing i'm sorry:rofl
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I dont consider these things torture, inappropriate maybe, but definately not torture heh.
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And Clinton got it for free in the Oval Office. Bush will be damnd if he does and hanged if they succeed in blowing up NY or LA in the next 4 years. And all of our Freinds who spar with us on this BB will be the first to fall all over themselves to pay condolences to the members who got blown up or getting in line to take a cheap shot at Bush.
We are all quite fortunate who take part on this BB. I doubt any of us works a job in real life who is responsible for any of the command level decisions that if wrong, will show up on CNN as a story about how gentelmen of middle eastern descent enabled a large group of western christians to visit heavan on a one way special trip courtesy of allah........................ ........:)
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Originally posted by Elfie
I dont consider these things torture, inappropriate maybe, but definately not torture heh.
yup and so did the military. If you read the article carfully there are a few obscure sentences were these woman were in fact repremanded for their actions.
hmmmm.....get my head chopped off in front of the world......Go to gitmo and get lapdances?
that's a tough one I'll have to sleep on it. ;)
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Originally posted by Muckmaw1
I don't know. Maybe I just don't respect their religion.
I guess I'm a bigot, but I say go ahead with this type of Aggressive interrogation. If it will save the lives of innocents, I guess I'm in favor of Psychological Torture.
Ahhh .. so you must be one of those guys who celebrate existence and greate purpose of Auschwitz
I belive that you realy do not care about brits, who spent there 2 years and then when they came home to UK, they become free persons again, coz they didnt commit any crime ?
Sometime i have bad feeling that US imported to much Nacist after WW2.
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wow lada, you're either a cunning troller or a total whacko. Re-read your comparison.
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The behaviour is barbaric.
Anyone that condones it condones sexual assult.
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hmmm,
how to say this?
they go apey or get all mad about women being near them?
so whats the deal about 72 virgins or whatever it is?
72 female virgins or male virgins?
weird religion, me thinks.
in the words of Pete from Brother where art thou "that don't make no sense."
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Originally posted by bustr
And Clinton got it for free in the Oval Office. Bush will be damnd if he does and hanged if they succeed in blowing up NY or LA in the next 4 years. And all of our Freinds who spar with us on this BB will be the first to fall all over themselves to pay condolences to the members who got blown up or getting in line to take a cheap shot at Bush.
We are all quite fortunate who take part on this BB. I doubt any of us works a job in real life who is responsible for any of the command level decisions that if wrong, will show up on CNN as a story about how gentelmen of middle eastern descent enabled a large group of western christians to visit heavan on a one way special trip courtesy of allah........................ ........:)
Was the kool-aid tastey?
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I agree Thrawn .Psychologicl torture is wrong!!!!
Just ask him Why were you in Arizona ??
If he refused to answer Blow his brains out .
And he goes to be with Mohammad .
Every ones happy.
:D
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Thank you, can I have another?
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Bah. They obviously dont realise it aint torture untill they force on of those Arabs to marry one of our women. and live with them for several years.
Reminds me of an old joke.
Studies show that unmarried american men live longer then Married American men.
But the study also shows the married ones are much more willing to die
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I belive some visual evidence is required for further input...
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^
No pictures of Lindy England, please.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
yup and so did the military. If you read the article carfully there are a few obscure sentences were these woman were in fact repremanded for their actions.
hmmmm.....get my head chopped off in front of the world......Go to gitmo and get lapdances?
that's a tough one I'll have to sleep on it. ;)
I saw where those women were reprimanded. Before you stated it too....see? I really CAN read. :D
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Originally posted by Muckmaw1
The interrogator left the room to ask a Muslim linguist how she could break the prisoner's reliance on God. The linguist told her to tell the detainee that she was menstruating, touch him, then make sure to turn off the water in his cell so he couldn't wash.
Strict interpretation of Islamic law forbids physical contact with women other than a man's wife or family, and with any menstruating women, who are considered unclean.
"The concept was to make the detainee feel that after talking to her he was unclean and was unable to go before his God in prayer and gain strength," says the draft, stamped "Secret."
This reminds me of something I heard about Israelis using pig blood or fat to deter suicide bombers.
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I read a story somewhere that back in ww2 in the philipeans a US commander buried some muslum extremeists that were killed attacking us forces in with dead pigs. He also let it be known that all his mens ammo was dipped in pigs blood. The extremists stopped all attacks.
I dont know if this is true. I'll have to do some searching for the story on the net
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Is some muslim scag put her finger under her big skanky dress thing and threatend to whipe it on your faces you wimps would talk in a second.
That is why the muslim fundimentalists will always win. Thier woman are just scarier.
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Originally posted by WilldCrd
I read a story somewhere that back in ww2 in the philipeans a US commander buried some muslum extremeists that were killed attacking us forces in with dead pigs. He also let it be known that all his mens ammo was dipped in pigs blood. The extremists stopped all attacks.
I dont know if this is true. I'll have to do some searching for the story on the net
Its not from ww2. Its from when the US was bringing democracy to the philipines.
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Originally posted by GScholz
Umm ... "civilian contractors" used for interrogations?
different rules for civilians: no UCMJ CIA operatives are "civilians"
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Originally posted by Holden McGroin
different rules for civilians: no UCMJ CIA operatives are "civilians"
I have no problem with that.
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well heck, I don't think the army issues any thongs.. they would be out of uniform...>
Some how I'm having trouble getting Dr. Evils sidekick woman from the Austin Powers movie out of my head.
On a side note, you don't need to pay them... when I was in basic training, one of out drill instructors started hooking up with this 40 plus year old skanky prostitute. This chic was covered with tatoo's and and drugs and time had not treated her well. She would come over to the barracks at between 1-3 am for some "training" after our DI got done done "playing" with her they both came out of the office and had some fun with us. If you can imagine the above dressed in nothing but a pair of combat boots and a DI campaign hat and a whip shouting orders to a bunch of guys in the barracks your starting to get the picture. :eek: