Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aces High General Discussion => Topic started by: Minotaur on February 05, 2000, 12:18:00 PM
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Up until now, I considered myself a "Loyalist"
- If my team was winning, "I hung in there".
- If my team was losing, "I hung in there".
My attitude is starting to change into becoming more of a "Funamist". If my team is absolutely getting crushed, why not just change teams? It seems that it might be more fun.
EX: Last night, no B DAR and with 56R vs 23B, "Payback Time" was at full speed. It was quite an impressive juggernaut. <Salute> (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
(I'm not sure what K was doing, but there were 27K in the roster.)
Switching to the Knitwits, I could have still fought against the Rocks. I would have had an immediate advantage, in doing so. Last night however, I chose to log off. That seemed a rather "Lose Lose Situation" for me. My pride of remaining loyal cost me an evening of fun.
BTW; from my above example I assume that the Rock players were doing what I would have done, simply being "Loyalists". I find no fault in their doing this, nor their swinging of the "Payback Time" hammer.
However, in recent days, I do see more players switching teams and then fighting against the same team as they were fighting before they switched.
Any thoughts?
Mino
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In all my time in AH I've only switched sides twice. The first time was the hawg/george historical engagement back around version .40 (I think it was then)
the other time, and may all rooks forgive me, was a few nights ago when both nits and bish outnumbered the rooks and were playing with us, not causing a reset. There were 6 rooks online before I switched to nits, and 20+ or both bish and nits.
Switched to nits, the Wrecking Crew joined me, and we promptly invaded the bishcuits. It was the next night I think that the rooks had both countries down to 3 fields each =)
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I switched sides last night for the opposite reason, The rooks had the other guys outnumbered 2 to 1, so I switched and became a knight for a while.
Having such a lopsided roster takes the fun out of the game for me.
Being a die hard loyal in an arena like this is silly to me.
If we had a LW vs. Allied arena, now that would be a different story. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I recently switched from one 'country' to another. It had nothing to do with numbers, I don't care about numbers. It had to do with attacking, or lack thereof. All I want from the country I fly for is that we attack enemy fields rather than defend friendly ones. The country I was flying for had a group mindset of grabbing Spits and Nikis and hanging out over friendly fields, even when we outnumbered the enemy. Sometimes we would have 45 players on while the other teams had 30 or so, and we'd still be down to 3 fields, with no offensive energy anywhere. I would check the radar and see swarms of friendlies defending a sector which had almost no enemy activity. I just wasn't enjoying the options of either joining the defensive swarm or flying a solo attack, so I switched and I have no regrets.
To each his own, but I think 'loyalty' should be a squad thing, not a country thing.
--ra--
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Ra
That "aggressive" attitude of yours is going to get you in trouble! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I cant imagine vulching my squad mates or any of the rooks I normaly fight with.
I would not change sides if any of them where still trying to hold out.
But I would change sides if i logged an unusual time and there was know one on that I knew. Its not really a country thing with me its a comaradarie thing.
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Pongo
The Wrecking Crew
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Hmmm. Well, I guess there are some guys you'd want in your fox hole when the human waves come over the hill, and there are some guys you have to be constantly watching out of one eye.
If you are changing sides to help an underdog, or you have squadies flying on the otherside you want to join ok. But to bail to another side just to get better odds so you kills will be easier is the lowest form of cowardice IMHO.
What would we have thought of the "Bastards of Bastone" if they took one look at the approaching Panzers and decided to put on German uniforms because that looked a lot more pleasent. The easy path is NOT always the best.
Any way you slice it, you abandoned your position under fire. Thats grounds for summary execution in my book.
Now I wouldn't normally bore you with my personal moral views, but you DID ask for my opinion.
That being said, it was only the bish's you abaondoned so that isn't so bad. As far as I'm concerned you can bail on those sons of britches any time you want. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Wab
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If the guys on my team have their heads up their arnoldes, I would switch. I haven't had this happen in AH yet, but in WB it happened to me all the time.
I can't remember how many times purple would have a numbers advantage, but would just be getting hammered. No heavies, everybody just ack hugging. POOF I was outta there!
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Amen brother Mino! Im withya there!
Wabb,
I think you are confusing a moral issue with a "fun" issue. We are not born to any one of these countries, none of these countries spurn human rights or commit wartime atrocities. In effect, this is not "war" and we arent fighting for anything other than the fun of fighting. In effect, I dont see "treason" being an issue.
In my opinion, it is NOT fun being degraded to 3 fields and at that point either being vulched as you try to fly or trying to grab alt so you could fly into a hoard of enemy and dying immediately. The way the countries are set up. one country usually gets gangbanged (and yes...it IS a gangbang). I have no problem in switching sides to get one of the major countries fighting the other rather than my countrymen. I think of it as an alliance. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Ding
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"What would we have thought of the "Bastards of Bastone" if they took one look at the approaching Panzers and decided to put on German uniforms because that looked a lot more pleasent. The easy path is NOT always the best."
BZZZZZZZZT WRONG! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
Bad analogy.
Goal of 101st ABN: Stay alive, kill krauts, win war.
Goal of AH Players: Have fun. Period!
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No Real opinion on side switching though I have never done it. One thing I think this does prove though is the 3 cornered contest doesn't work. Much better to have 2 sides, I won't open up the Historical aspect (Axis verses Allied - No Axis Bombers or Transport yet). I frequently fly with only 2 or 3 other knights It's not much fun. You can't upset anyone co's if you do you get "raped"
TTFN
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Before the 1 hour turn around I have seen some personalities, knowing one of their fields was being vulched, changed sides to help vulch the airfield of their prior country.
WOW!! Talk about a lack of character (In my opinion).
But hey! Thats the game! We all need to satisfy our hunger somehow.
Basically, it is whatever flips your trigger!!
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Damn Ghostrider! This bogey is all over me!!
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Sometimes I switch sides, just to meet the players of the other teams.
I usually fly rook, but can be seen at times on all teams.
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Vermillion
**MOL**, Men of Leisure,
Dicta Verm: "Never give the suckers an even break!" or translated "Never engage without an advantage"
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If you are only switching sides so that you have better numerical odds and easier kills then thats cowardice IMHO.
Some people have more fun by always being on the side with more guys and easier kills. Some people have fun by taking off against toejamty odds and fighting with daring and skill and turning the odds back around. It just depends on the character of the person I guess.
I've switched side before to fly with wingies or help underdogs or just to meet some of the other pilots. I've even switched when I was pissed off at my teammates one time for lacking hmmmm "intestinal fortitude". But I've never switched just to get better odds for easier kills. Its just leaving under duress that I will never ever accept.
Like I said, not trying to force my morals on you. I was just asked for my opinion. But when it come time to merge into a fight, its nice to know if the teammates around you are gonna stick or run and leave you hanging in a fight.
I think its mainly caused by people wanting to nurse their beloved stats more than "fun". But again thats only my opinion.
Regards,
Wab
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>Any way you slice it, you abandoned your
>position under fire. Thats grounds for
>summary execution in my book.
Uhhmmm actually, Mino just logged off which is better than team jumping. I've done that before. So change my above statement to refer to the "team-hoppers". (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Wab
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"Allegience" to an imaginary country in a virtual world, has got to be one of the silliest concepts since the Turtle was thought to support the Earth on his shell.
Let the Numbers be your guide.
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Hey Mino, what Gadfly said. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
I am a free spirit in these things. I've never felt allegiance to any country or color in any sim I've ever flown. Most times I check the numbers when loging on and I usually choose the under dog. Unless the under dog is being baldy kicked to death. Then I join another country, besides the top dog, and start a little ruckus with them elsewhere.
The only time I ever get into loyalty and "patriotism" is in scenarios. For me the arena is practice for them. Tune or learn ACM and try and keep the SA sharp.
But do what it is that makes you have the most fun. For each of us it may very well be something different. If you're not having fun, logoff and read a book. That always works for me after getting my head handed to me on a platter in a scenario frame. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
-Westy
[This message has been edited by Westy (edited 02-05-2000).]
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Wow.. an interesting virtual loyalty concept! and a Moral Dilemma! Made fer TV Movie Script material! (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I'm with 'ol AKWabbit here in principal.. and share for the most part the same views. Sadly; here's a typical case of the Moral Highground being the tuffest to defend. And; I'm wize enuff to know that like Religion, Politics, Gunnery and Chute Shooting; this is a hot tamale.
Yep; I fly pretty much exclusively bish.. I had one evening when I allowed myself to become annoyed & logged on to the other side. Made a kill on a guy I usually clear sixes for.. and felt like doggy doo fer two days. Never switched again. Frankly; I like and respect the guys I fly with, and would much rather fly with them, than against them.
I also respect the guys I routinely encounter on the other teams; great talents, excellent adversaries.. and I don't see them switching sides much either. Sure there are exceptions; special events or tactical considerations notwithstanding, the enema remains the enema.. for the most part. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Of course, it becomes tuff for me to respect an enema that swaps sides just for a rest from 'being beat upon'. Sure; he's just flying for fun.. and so am I. It's unfortunate I don't find that kind of scorecard flying as much fun as others apparently find it. But that's ok.. they don't really affect my game; and I tend to not effect theirs either. !
Likewize; its tuff for me to respect a friendly that hops to the other side for a convienient 'change of pace'.
Further, I can't say I'm comfortable with the guys that country hop several times an evening.. have seen situations pop up where plans were made for an attack only to find a 'bish' has swapped sides; and is gleefully involved in busting it up from the other side. No big deal.. this kinda stuff seems to be part of arena play everywhere. I don't squeak about it.. I just remember names. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
I realize that it's nuts for me to expect others to fly the sim the way I do; and I try not to allow their different attitudes regarding playbalance or 'loyalty' affect my judgement when I see one of these guys in a jam when they fly on my side.
Certainly; everyone here has the right to fly the sim the way they choose. it's like freedom of speech in a way... I'd defend yer right to say what yah want; but that don't mean I agree with what you say. If yah wanna hop from team to team; well; that's ok I guess. Who am I to tell somebody who's paid his money how to take his chances?
With most guys I fly with; when they need help; there's no dilemma; no hesitation.. down I go. With these 'others'.. well if there's a dilemma; there may be some hesitation, some moral juggling to be resolved.
"...hmmm; mebbe this ain't a 'for real' friendly and well; maybe the guy is gettin what he wants or asked for.. after all; I didn't send him down there; certainly; if he's liable to be on the other side next sortie; mebbe I shouldn't be in such a hurry to go down there and probably get my bellybutton shot off tryin to help him... "
SYSTEM: Dolomite has shot down NUTTZ
...whups, too late. He's dead. Dilemma solved. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
I love this sim. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Hang
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PALE HORSES
"I looked, and behold; a Pale Horse, and it's riders name was Death, and Hell followed with him" Rev 6.8
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This is a tough one, while on one hand I like it when someone switches sides to help the Knights when we are the underdogs, I don't like it when people bail out on us when the going gets tough. I personally have only flown Knight since I started back in .36, but that's because my squad is Knights only and I enjoy talking/flying with the same people night after night. I guess this is one of those issues where it's up to the individual to decide what they enjoy doing the most. There is no clearcut black/white answer to this problem. The bottom line is that this is only a game (no matter how realistic it may become), and being a game, the point is to have fun playing it. If you find it fun to fly with one team exclusively, go for it, but if you like to switch sides and help the underdog, I have no problem with that either. I must say that in the time I've been here, I have met very few people that I wouldn't enjoy flying with.
IMO this is really a decision that each individual must make for themselves.
bloom25
THUNDERBIRDS
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Well in here we don't choose teams, we are stuck with them. If my teammates are flying like idgits then I reserve the right to desert them!
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Really it ain't that important, (slow day someone?) I've changed once to go with guys I know, I don't want to jump around the map,
and don't really care if we are getting our tulips kicked, hell IMHO, being down to 3 fields means I don't have to go hunting a fight (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif) but that's me, You do what you want
it's your dime.
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pzvg- "5 years and I still can't shoot"
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My rule for which side I fly... I look for my squad mates and join that country so that we are all flying together. Thats what make the AH experience a worthy one for us rather than flying for any particular country. It is interesting changing sides and flying with people that are normally your enemies. Gives a real appreciation for the wide range of flying skills, talents and styles of fighting in the sim.
MiG
Cutthroats Mercenary Company
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I ususally fly Rooks, but will switch when they are getting double teamed. Got on early yesterday, and Rooks were down to 3 fields, with both B and K attacking, and ignoring each other. I switched to Knights, and attacked a nearby Bishop field. At first it was just me stooging around, but in a half hour or so, I had created a nice little BvK war to take some heat off Rooks. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
popeye
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Funked-
Speaking as one who bounces around a lot, let me tell you, each side is capable of incompetence. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
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I'm with hangtime on this one. Back in beta tour 1 I changed alot... but was still trying to take off without crashing so I chose the side which gave me a helping hand.
Everybody knows the names of certain people regarding of country, but that's just because they are well known and get their names alot in the textbuffer (Mitsu, dolomite, cavemanJ, leonid, hristo,etc) .Others you know because they've teached you things and you owe them (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)...(like lephturn who flies evil rook)... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/wink.gif)
And then their is of course 'the family'. This goes further then squaddies. People who cleared your six, who always buff, who always take up the goon on a suicide attack... simply put... your country... when I get online I always check the roster... and most of the time I see the same guys flying bish... the same names... I feel right at home.
I know this is a 'game' but it's also a community... sometimes I feel like I miss out on alot of the community-activity cause you always read one side of the story(e.a. country channel)... but that's just the way it is... and I like it (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
Greets bishops, nice flying with ya
Nits, riks, check six (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
BEE
ps: Leph... if you come to the dark side... I'll be your eternal wingie... (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/smile.gif)
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I have no loyalty to any side but to the low #...which is normally Knights.
I've only switched sides once after I had been on for awhile and that was to go after a loud mouth who wouldn't fly close enough for me to get him.
I really don't care who I'm fighting against ..even if it was someone I was just winging with. It doesn't bother me a bit if anyone changes sides. Just more to kill. (http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/Smileys/default/biggrin.gif)
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Mighty1
The New Baby Harp Seals
"Come try to club THIS Seal"