Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => Aircraft and Vehicles => Topic started by: Tilt on January 31, 2005, 07:07:47 AM
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For use in and around key areas(HQ's and strat) maybe over towns and vehicle fields and definately over ports.
The standard barrage balloon used throughout the war was designated the LZ (Low Zone). It was just over 62 feet long and 25 feet in diameter at its widest part and had a hydrogen capacity of 19,000 cubic feet. The LZ balloon was flown from a mobile winch and was designed for a maximum flying altitude of 5000 feet. The winch speed limited the raising and hauling down speed to about 400 fet per minute, which meant that the balloons required 11 minutes to reach 5000 feet from their close-hauled altitude of 500 feet. When an aircraft struck the cable of an LZ balloon armed with a Double Parachute Link, the cable was severed at the top and bottom by two cutting links. The aircraft thus carried away the main portion of the cable and an 8 foot diameter parachute opened at each end of the wire. Together the parachutes exerted a drag about six times as great as the engine thrust of a bomber, sufficient to stop it almost dead in its tracks, causing the victim to fall out of the sky and crash. As the cable parted from the balloon, a wire ripped off a patch which allowed the hydrogen to escape, causing the balloon to descend slowly to the ground.
Best read I have found so far at
http://www.fishponds.freeuk.com/puckle.htm
It was the RAF's answer to make bombers fly higher over key targets...............it could serve to do the same in AH.
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(http://www.bbrclub.org/baragecardington.jpg)
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awsome idea... they were cool in the game battle of btitain
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Would make things interesting in attacking Ports, V Bases and strategic targets. Don't think you could have too many around airfields - have your own guys running into them all the time.
I loved going "loon" hunting in DOW, was fun. Do like they did - station a light A/A gun under every balloon.
BTW Tilt, excelent idea - but they were called Barrage Balloons not Blimbs. :aok
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Be a nice sight over the Vbases.
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Those would be great, bombers need to bomb higher, which decreases accuracy!
And sleaping pilots might just crash! God I love the idea!
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Also, while it says it would slow the planes down -- that was just one idea -- in reality the wire actually sliced into wings and vital parts and in some cases caused massive damage.
If I recall they had some designs where the baloon detached when the wire was hit, and at the baloon was a small mine charge. As the wire ripped downward into the fast-moving wing (being anchored in place) the mine charge would hit the wing and explode.
In AH I could see them as indestructible items. Like trees. You hit 'em, you lose a wing. Kind of like in real life. This idea would be easily done with what we have now (no need to recode AH, just use custom models on the terrain).
Now, making the baloons destructible.. that's another problem... Plus when one is shot down it can be raised again by the ground crew.
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... Plus when one is shot down it can be raised again by the ground crew.
Maybe you would have to run supplies to it?
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There are destroyable "structures" at fields now......... barrage balloons with wires could just be additional ones...........
and yes hitting the wire may be sufficient to lose a wing etc
If you hit one you die..........if you put enough rounds into it It explodes.
..........flying thru a "flaming onion" may carry its own danger.......although currently all fire is cold in AH.
Structures recover with time at airfields now.....unfortunately however they simply re appear................ bit of a blow if a barrage balloon simply warps into existanceinfront of an ac.
Hence for scenario terrains we could just make the shape call it a structure and stick it where we wish.
However if we want it/them to float up to deployment altitude at 400ft per min some x mins (decided by strat)after it has been destroyed..........(ie an AI barrage balloon)......... we need COAD.
IMO it is both historically accurate and a method of adjusting "solo" low level bombing game play.
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Have them set to automatic.
Could have them on the ground till an enemy aircraft got so close then they would assend to their set altitude.
Once the threat passed they would lower to the ground so as not to interfear with friendly aircraft operations.
Love this idea the more I think about it. WTG Tilt. :aok
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Those are just barage balloons.
The USN had real blimps (airships) for costal anti-sub patrol, dont know if they had any offensive capability like the WW1 blimps did....DOA blimp races were some fun....
http://www.tillamookair.com/html/bldg.html
(http://www.tillamookair.com/assets/images/BlimpsHangar2.jpg)
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I believe they could drop depth ("deth") charges (but no nooks) :)
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DOA had Zeppelins - different varment from a Blimb. Think the main subject was "Barrage Ballons" not blimbs. Don't think the Blimps would last too long here in AH.
The WW2 USN Blimbs could carry several depth charges and were armed with .50cal machine guns.
One did get in a shootout with a U-Boat but lost. :(
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Anyone have any dimensions for these things? Even rough dimensions?
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great idea tilt! i cant belive no one thought of it before.
bring barrage baloons to AH!
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Originally posted by Dux
Anyone have any dimensions for these things? Even rough dimensions?
The Average Barrage Balloon was around 67 ft Long x 25 ft. in diameter.
You can see the size comparison to a man in the pic below:
(http://www.skylighters.org/barrageballoons/1.jpg)
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Thanks, Jester. :)
Also... huge "duh" moment on my part; I just re-read Tilt's original quote.
Duh.
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where they effective?
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Originally posted by Flyboy
where they effective?
http://www.airpower.maxwell.af.mil/airchronicles/apj/apj89/hillson.html
http://www.westallswar.org.uk/new_barrage.html
http://www.lonesentry.com/articles/defair/
In summary when deployed in sufficient concentration the answer seems to be ...yes
Google searches will show that the LW would not fly low thru barrage wire forests................
and so their effectiveness is in forcing the LW above 5000 feet over London and other key targets.
We see that on DDay larger landing craft each carried a barrage balloon to offer some protection enroute but more specifically to offer the LW a hazard on and over the beaches when the craft were lined up.
They obviously accounted for aircraft losses directly and inparticular later V1's.
I note even now they are considerd over US nuclear sites for anti terrorist purposes.
My opinion is that in AH they would work similarly................. whether they would be usefull over airfields is questionable but considering ports, vehicle fields, HQ's and strat facilities then I believe they would be use full in forcing bombers / attackers higher or in providing target oppurtunuity for AI guns whilst fighters attempt to shoot them down.
All of which counter the proliferation of low level stuff by an exact method historically used.
At airfields
They could be used over airfields but I fear that it places a dicipline on defending pilots that they would not appreciate.
AC take off and land on air fields using "corridors" defined by the run ways. These would have to be clear of Balloon wires.
Attackers do not use these Corridors (even when Vulching) attackers criss cross the airfield weaving to avoid AA or targetting various objects not sited in the corridors. Hence attackers would be impeded by balloon deployment.
However I fear that players would complain about freindly kills by balloon wires at airfields as it stops them hiding in their own AA immediately post take off.
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great idea tilt! i cant belive no one thought of it before.
bring barrage baloons to AH!
They have :p
Limiting the impact of suicide jabos (http://www.hitechcreations.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=63767&highlight=barrage+balloons)
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I like the idea.
I wonder if I fly through them if the puffy ack from it's own field will blow them up for me.
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awesome idea.
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awesome idea.
limits vulching - Manned ack and ground vehicles can concentrate on runway approaches.
limits NOE bombing raids - place balloons in front and behind the "bomb all the hangers in one pass" vector
Attackers can take them out, but need to fly into flak zones to do it - very cool if flack is made a bit more accurate for low level.
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Give it an ENY of about 750:lol
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Just a simple thought from a simple mind...
Couldn't a barrage ballon simply be created in the terrian editor? Build it the same as a building, a very tall building. The cable would run to the ground (tall skinny tower) with the balloon at the top (building).
afool
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Originally posted by afool
Just a simple thought from a simple mind...
Couldn't a barrage ballon simply be created in the terrian editor? Build it the same as a building, a very tall building. The cable would run to the ground (tall skinny tower) with the balloon at the top (building).
afool
Yes it could. It could be designated as a structure or a void.............it could be created as a new 3d object and added as a big object which sat over a facility with part of it being a solid wire dropping to the ground.
Unfortunately it would then be fixed. Such that when it was shot down it would after a period of time re appear................ I think this is the only limitation to using simple objects as barrage balloons................imagi ne you are diving over a cleared facility and a barrage balloon with wire simply pops into existance........and you hit it.
To animate a barrage balloon the would ascend from just below ground level to approx 5000ft at 400 ft/min. After which they would be fixed untill destroyed.
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Damn, that is a great idea.
I love that idea.
No, really.. I LOVE that idea.
It'd definately take care of the NoE suicide dip****s, provided there were enough balloons.
I'd even like to have them at airfields, although I can see why people wouldn't want them there.
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Maybe one could buy a barrage of ballons for some unused perks?
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Originally posted by Tilt
Yes it could. It could be designated as a structure or a void.............it could be created as a new 3d object and added as a big object which sat over a facility with part of it being a solid wire dropping to the ground.
Unfortunately it would then be fixed. Such that when it was shot down it would after a period of time re appear................ I think this is the only limitation to using simple objects as barrage balloons................imagi ne you are diving over a cleared facility and a barrage balloon with wire simply pops into existance........and you hit it.
To animate a barrage balloon the would ascend from just below ground level to approx 5000ft at 400 ft/min. After which they would be fixed untill destroyed.
I do see your point about respawining and understand it. I would love to see it coded correctly. They are a lot of things I'd like to see....
The town is down and starts to respawn, troops are on the way, You start low level straffing runs, when all of a sudden, up pops a building, You swear, pull-up, but, you don't clear the roof ridge.... sometimes it's a full face plant, other you just catch the prop and you wallow around looking for a safe place to ditch....
Rather than waitng until their coded ( if they are coded )
I'd would settle for them being building objects and take my chances on the respawn. It would not differ much from what's in the game now.
afool
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Aren't there three stages of a downded hanger? When it's first knocked out, it flames with smoke, then it flames without smoke, then no flame, then it pops.
You could code the barage balloons the same way. When they are first destroyed, they should disapear. Then they should reappear close to the ground, then they should spawn a little higher, then spawn again at full hieght. Of course they should be indestructable until they are completely respawned, or not, I haven't decided yet.
You could concider this a punt if you wanted, but I feel that barage balloon are a historic necessity for AH and I want to keep this topic current.
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Overall they had little effect. I'd rather see AH planes killed by AH planes (or GVs, or ships, etc). The ack is too super accurate as-is, so why do you want MORE things that would kill players? Besides, it's not like we have any cities or real strat to protect with these baloons, regardless.
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Perhaps just around factories and cities. Maybe vehicle bases and ports too... they always call bombing a factory a milk run. Make it a little more challenging.
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Ack is super accurate as it is. 1 puff and BAM in the tower. I've been lucky at times, sure, but there is that single instant ack ping kill that keeps recurring for everybody in this game. If ack is so dang lethal we don't need baloons, was what I meant. And ports are especially lethal (not sure if they have more guns or what, but they kill me far more than normal fields do)
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krusty you do have a very good point sir but I as well as many here apparently do feel that we should still have them, althouh with the noe acked up fields im more hesitant than I was before. thanks for givin g me a chance to lookat it the other way as well.
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I love the baloon idea!
Even better if you could pick one in hangar and become one. You could just up as baloon and collect augers while having sunday dinner :D
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but the germans had the best and the bigest but they use flamble gases when the amercans did not so would that be in AH or would both sides have the same one's???
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Two years brought back in a FLASH!