Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Torgo on January 31, 2005, 11:20:48 AM
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http://www.strategypage.com//fyeo/howtomakewar/default.asp?target=HTMURPH.HTM
"For over half a century, kits have been sold that enable military history buffs to assemble scale models of military ships, aircraft and vehicles. But that era is coming to an end, as the manufacturers of the original equipment, especially aircraft, are demanding high royalties (up to $40 per kit) from the kit makers..."
I dimly remember a thread discussing this months ago. Has any company gone after a computer game or board wargame with representations of vehicles or aircraft yet?
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Yes. Northrop Grumman went after the makers of Pacific Fighters just recently.
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This is a very sad editorial on the current state of affairs as they relate to corporate greed. But, I like many saw this coming with the whispers over IL2. I'm just wondering where its going to stop.
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sorry but I have yet to see one valid link where someone provided more than heresay or conjecture about this. I dont think those companies own the copyrights to WW2 military aircraft. Maybe you can put grumman or something in front of their name anymore but I doubt you cant make the model. Don't copyrights expire eventually too and then it becomes public domain. WW2 was 60 years ago now.
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Originally posted by Raider179
sorry but I have yet to see one valid link where someone provided more than heresay or conjecture about this. I dont think those companies own the copyrights to WW2 military aircraft. Maybe you can put grumman or something in front of their name anymore but I doubt you cant make the model. Don't copyrights expire eventually too and then it becomes public domain. WW2 was 60 years ago now.
This is happening. But the reality is more absurd than even the royalties, the real issue is liability insurance. First, yes the companies want royalties for their "Boeing" P51s or "Northrop" F4U Corsairs." Many of the model companies can afford to pay them, however when the royalties are paid the kit becomes an officaly licencesed Boeing/Northrop/Lockheed etc product. Now if little Bobby Joe Smith swallows his P51 kit propeller he can sue Boeing for damages. So Boeing and all the others are demanding that the relatively small kit makers get liabilty insurance to protect the multi billion dollar aerospace firms from lawsuits. This type of insurance is incredibly expensive and difficult to get and so most of the smaller companies cannot afford it.
Voila....
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Originally posted by Raider179
... Don't copyrights expire eventually too and then it becomes public domain. WW2 was 60 years ago now.
Sony Bono's Copyright Extension (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sonny_Bono_Copyright_Term_Extension_Act)
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yes seen all that. but I cant find any info anywhere that this is actually taking place. All I see is people on different forums freaking out about it and linking to other forums as proof. I have found nothing on any of the "offenders" Boeing, grumman, northrop, websites nor in the copyright office. I have to say I sincerly doubt this is authentic. And if it, I would think vets would stand up and ask these companies to not do this and that would be the end of it.
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I just don't see it. Someone hurts themselves with a Revell kit of an F16 and then sues Lockheed.........
What's really killing model kits is the fact that the kids don't make them anymore, at least to the extent that we did. Most if not all are made for the adult market these days. Thirty plus mostly I think. When we all die the industry dies. Used to be you could buy model kits in many smaller shop, even grocery's who carry some toys. Now it's specialist model shops mostly. Big toy shops carry a few models but that's it. I got started when my local corner shops stocked a few FROG models. They cost 3 shillings, which I begged off my Mother and bought, you guessed it ....... a Spitfire.
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Originally posted by cpxxx
I just don't see it. Someone hurts themselves with a Revell kit of an F16 and then sues Lockheed.........
What's really killing model kits is the fact that the kids don't make them anymore, at least to the extent that we did. Most if not all are made for the adult market these days. Thirty plus mostly I think. When we all die the industry dies. Used to be you could buy model kits in many smaller shop, even grocery's who carry some toys. Now it's specialist model shops mostly. Big toy shops carry a few models but that's it. I got started when my local corner shops stocked a few FROG models. They cost 3 shillings, which I begged off my Mother and bought, you guessed it ....... a Spitfire.
If lockheed is the officail liscense holder for the kit then yes they are liable. Think about it....do you think some lawyer is gonna want to sue the modle company or daddy warbucks Lockheed Martin?
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a politically correct, nannying court system and the corporations that take advantage of it triumph again!!!
we asked for it though, you cant abuse the courts to get money from companies without the companies taking advantage of the same flaws and biting back...
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How far does this go? Can an airshow accident (God forbid) lead to lawsuits against the manufacturer of the plane?
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Originally posted by DmdBT
How far does this go? Can an airshow accident (God forbid) lead to lawsuits against the manufacturer of the plane?
My question is can civilians injured in Iraq sue the manufactures of the US weapos systems?
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so if you get hit over the head by a history book .. can u sue all the manufacturers that are mentioned in it ???
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Its those kind of lawsuits that made men like John Edwards very, very wealthy
And I can assure you, his type dont want Tort Reform.
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This move grew out of the idea that corporations should maximize “intellectual property” income. Models of a companys products are considered the intellectual property of the owner of a vehicle design. In the past, the model kits were considered free advertising, and good public relations, by the defense firms.
I wonder who came up with this idiocacy? A lawyer or an MBA?
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How many realize that models ,ect insinuate growth and intelligence ... my 1st Race car started out as a model 5 years befor i built it .. I still use models for custom work ..
raising royalties on this stuff is gonna kill the modeling world for future generations .... Is that really fair to do to our children ???
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Originally posted by DmdBT
How far does this go? Can an airshow accident (God forbid) lead to lawsuits against the manufacturer of the plane?
Lets see, in Berkely california a teenage boy about 7 years ago was showing off his fathers beretta 92 to his freind. Freind pulls the trigger, gun goes boom. Kid is dead. Father had just come back from a range I go to. We even used stalls next to each other, so I have some personal bias about his range habits anyway. Father had thrown the beretta in the bag with one up the spout. He claims in court he taught his son gun saftey. Kid never racked the slide to check it. Just handed it to the freind to play with.
Ok 3 juries later Beretta is found innocent of any wrong doing. The case was to prove that Berettas loaded chamber indicater was too small and easy to miss. And that the manual was poorly written. But the father swore to each jury he had provided his son with training on handeling firearms.
So answer your own question DmdBT...........
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bustr
Did the father go to jail for his incredible stupidity?
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Someone should stand up and make the license thing invalid.
They possibly cannot require licenses all of the sudden, after 50 years and also expect their rights to be still valid after 50 years.
Greedy SOB's, ruining everyones hobby and fun with unjustified demands.
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Somehow i knew this was all SOBs fault!!
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Does ANYONE have at least a link to a story that can provide ANY validity to the tale that legal action from an aircraft corporation is pending in this matter?
AFAIAC until there is verifiable documentation of legal action speculation about it is a waste of time.
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Mav, Check out Rcgroups.com , there you will find some cases. At least two model makers had to cancel their planes, GWS had to cancel 747 and theri p-38 and P-40 should have come out half a year ago, but now their release date is unavailable.
Mostly this will hit American model makers because some model makers in another continents don´t give a watermelon about legal rights, which in this particular case I find somewhat justified...
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Like I said earlier. No reliable sources. just more forum to forum links. Anyone thought of emailing any of these companies for confirmation that they are prohibiting these models being built. If there was some type of public response from the companies (boeing, grumman, etc) I guarentee you it would be seen somewhere. This still sounds like internet mumbo jumbo and I have yet to seen a shread of proof.
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Well, something is definitely killing the model industry.
K-mart and Target in my area has pulled ALL of their models in the last year. Im guessing that, as someone said, kids are just not buying them.
They are spending too much time enjoying the Video Game Age than spending time with models.
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i got this off the boeing web sit.
Trademark Licensing
Many of the companies and products that made aviation history in the past are now part of The Boeing Company that is moving forward into the 21st century. Boeing, McDonnell Douglas, McDonnell Aircraft, Douglas Aircraft, North American Aviation, Stearman, and other distinctive airplane liveries, logos, and product markings are among the trademarks owned by Boeing. The Trademark Management Group is responsible for the licensing and management of the Boeing Trademarks.
Licensing Trademarks
Article Review Process
http://www.boeingiplicensing.com/pages/index.cfm?fuseaction=category&level=24&CFID=283890&CFTOKEN=21365870
if you follow the links it says nothing about any fees nor does it say no fees, it only says that the reproductions must be fathfull to the originals and be approved by the tradmark group.
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yeah but again no info about this just says they own the trademarks to certain companies. I sent them an email at the trademarks link you posted. See if I get a response.
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thanks raider, i was going to, but i didn't get around to it yet.
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wouldnt hurt to send them one too. They might not respond without some prompting from the community.