Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: CMC Airboss on January 31, 2005, 04:07:43 PM
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European Helicopter contract for U.S Marine One
From Inside the Navy, Vol. 18, No. 4, January 31, 2005
"The US-101, proposed by an international team led by Lockheed Martin, has been selected by the Navy to become the next-generation Marine One helicopter that will fly U.S. presidents for years to come, Navy acquisition executive John Young announced at press time (Jan. 28)"
"Lockheed's team has been awarded a $1.7 billion, cost plus award fee contract to launch the VXX program's system development and demonstration phase. The total value of the program, intended to produce 23 aircraft, is estimated to be $6.1 billion, naval officials told reporters Friday.
"This decision truly reflects the best value and capability for the American taxpayer who is funding it, the Marines who will operate it and the future presidents who will fly in it," Young said in a prepared statement."
Wow. This "value" puts the price of each helicopter at $265 million. That happens to be the list price for a new Airbus 380. Thats $30 million(!) more per aircraft than a KC-767A Tanker which was slandered as the biggest boondoggle in US military aquisition history by Senator McCain. (ref: program cost of $23 billion for 100 KC-767's). You could also purchase more than two and a half F-22 Raptors for the cost of one new presidential helicopter. Thats kind of pricey for a helicopter that can be purchased for $27m apiece on the civilian market (EH-101).
Cost plus? That means "bill us, take your profits, and charge us for any cost overuns." This is a European helicopter designed by AgustaWestland, who will share in the profits with Lockheed. Two sets of profits and nearly guaranteed cost overruns? Where is the outrage from Senator McCain? Where are the calls for scandal and corruption?
MiG
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I heard the helos will be assembled by Bell at their Hurst and Amarillo plants in Texas. I'm sure there are some nifty goodies that are not available on the civilian models.
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For $265 million it better be gold shreckin plated.
(http://www.onpoi.net/ah/pics/users/209_1081438631_swoop.gif)
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Gold is not so expensive Swoop :)
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Sad that Sikorsky did'nt get the contract. Long history with Marine One. That would be like Boeing losing Air Force One.
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Oh man, can you imagine the people freaking out on this BBS if Air Force One became an A380!? That'd be hilarious!
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How would that be funny Hawker? It would explode on take off and then the secret fly-by-wire mirrors would add smoke and HAL would drive the remains into the ground while the pilot had no control. :(
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People in Connecticut are 'freaking out' at the loss of this contract.
Not that I work for UTC/Si, but even the new Govenor has sent Bush a rather coarse letter.
Originally posted by hawker238
Oh man, can you imagine the people freaking out on this BBS if Air Force One became an A380!? That'd be hilarious!
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Originally posted by hawker238
Oh man, can you imagine the people freaking out on this BBS if Air Force One became an A380!? That'd be hilarious!
whats wrong with that idea? thats finaly a plane worth for presidentz! :D
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Just not an American president ;)
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What does the price contain? If just the helos it sounds pretty high but if it contains training, services, spares and whole show...
better read the small print from contracts and see if those helos were ordered with black paint...
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Bush should just be flying around in an F-104...he'd get there faster & at less cost & he wouldn't have to schlep a bunch of media along at our expense
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Total program cost is $6.1 billion. Of that, Lockheed was awarded $1.7 billion. So it looks like Lockheed will only be performing the final integration of the the supplied sub-assemblies from Europe. There was no further cost breakdown given.
What I don't understand is how most of the contract $$$'s were awarded to a foreign firm without so much as a peep from the House and Senate defense sub-committees. I guess it all comes down to this statement in the "Inside The Navy" article:
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D-NY) praised the decision, which will benefit industry in her state.
"What a great day for Owego, the Southern Tier and all of New York! I extend my warmest congratulations to the employees and management at Lockheed Martin's Owego plant and to the entire Southern Tier of New York which will benefit from this contract. I am so proud of what they have accomplished," Clinton said in a prepared statement.
Another interesting side note is that the total program cost per RAH-66 Comanche helicopter would have been $37.75m with a purchase of 121 aircraft (http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/crs/RS20522.pdf). The most advanced helicopter in the world was canceled because it cost too much - 1/7th the cost (per unit) and only 2/3 rds the total program cost of the US-101.
MiG
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Airboss,
The military doubletalk will only get better as the next round of base-closings kicks in this spring.
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Del,
I know the boys down at BDR were throwing a **** fit b/c one of our guys is a test pilot for them. Not good anyway u cut it.
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Unbef***kinglievable.
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As long as the process was 'fair' and we got the 'best for the Buck' I'm not complaining...
I never want US companies 'protected' in World Trade. The rules need to be the same for everyone and we need to compeat.
But, I mean, "The rules have to be the same for everyone"
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Considering who the current administration is and the likely reaction to a 'European' win on this contract. It seems to me that if they decided to buy US101 then it probably was the best choice.
It would have been so much easier to pick Sikorsky, politically speaking.
Obviously the President and the US taxpayer is getting the best deal.
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Originally posted by CMC Airboss
European Helicopter contract for U.S Marine One
From Inside the Navy, Vol. 18, No. 4, January 31, 2005
Wow. This "value" puts the price of each helicopter at $265 million. That happens to be the list price for a new Airbus 380. Thats $30 million(!) more per aircraft than a KC-767A Tanker which was slandered as the biggest boondoggle in US military aquisition history by Senator McCain. (ref: program cost of $23 billion for 100 KC-767's). You could also purchase more than two and a half F-22 Raptors for the cost of one new presidential helicopter. Thats kind of pricey for a helicopter that can be purchased for $27m apiece on the civilian market (EH-101).
Cost plus? That means "bill us, take your profits, and charge us for any cost overuns." This is a European helicopter designed by AgustaWestland, who will share in the profits with Lockheed. Two sets of profits and nearly guaranteed cost overruns? Where is the outrage from Senator McCain? Where are the calls for scandal and corruption?
MiG
Kinda looks like a Soviet Mil to me...
(http://www.airforce-technology.com/projects/us101/images/US101_3.jpg)
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WASHINGTON, Jan. 28 /PRNewswire/ -- Today, the Pentagon announced that Team US101 has won the U.S. Navy's $1.6 billion contract to build a new fleet of presidential helicopters. "We are extremely pleased that, in this case, quality and price overcame politics based on false patriotism," said Todd M. Malan, Executive Director of the Organization for International Investment.
Lockheed Martin is the prime contractor and systems integrator. The US101 is based on the design of AgustaWestland's proven EH101 helicopter. The US101 will be built in Amarillo, Texas, by Bell Helicopter. The Team has more than 200 American subcontractors in 41 states. Systems integration will take place at a $30 million, 176,000-square-foot plant to be built on Lockheed Martin's Owego campus. In the end, 90 percent of the contract's value will flow to companies in the United States.
U.S. subsidiaries of foreign companies insource 5.4 million American jobs, supporting an annual payroll of over $307 billion. "These new 'insourced' jobs represent one way that the United States benefits from the global economy, a world-class helicopter for the President is another," Malan stated.
"Americans don't care where a company is headquartered; they care where the jobs are, and the US101 is going to be made in the United States," concluded Malan.
Those who would raise the national-security issue to derail the contract face some powerful opponents, including Republican Reps. Sherwood Boehlert, the chairman of the House Science Committee, and Tom Reynolds, who runs the House Republican Campaign Committee, and the Texas congressional delegation, all of whom are quite happy to see jobs in their states created as a result of the contract going to Lockheed Martin.
Don't forget the Texas delegation is mostly Republican thanks to redistricting. What part of "built in Texas" do you not understand? No way there was political influence.:rolleyes:
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RPM you must be wrong...
Heh maybe that helo costs that much because it's made in Texas US ?
:rofl
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Originally posted by Finrod
Just not an American president ;)
Well said
...-Gixer
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Is this an Agusta? Oh boy... if it is, you're in trouble. years and years of scandals over this one over here...
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Just been reading a bit more about this and I'm quite suprised if they do go European given the US Helo industry makes some of the best (and for a very long time) helicopters in the world. And luckly I've been privaleged to fly a few.
Strange that they should go European and pay for the development and costs of a new model when they already have the excellent Sikorsky S-92 and H-92 Military which could easily keep all the military toys and extra grunt just add some plush furniture and fittings. Or up spec the S-92 to what ever they need.
Europeans build great helicopters to, but I can't see how they the decision to go that way can be because it's better then anything available in the US.
http://www.sikorsky.com/details/0,3036,CLI1_DIV69_ETI890,00.html
...-Gixer
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Interesting reading on the Agusta Scandal.
Mr Claes is one of 12 accused facing corruption charges related to a defence contract.
Prosecutors say about $1m was passed from Italian helicopter-maker Agusta to the Flemish and French speaking socialist parties of Belgium.
Di Rupo denies any offer came through him.
In return, Agusta won a contract to provide the Belgian Army with forty-six helicopters.
The Agusta affair, as it is known, has ensnared some of the country's most senior politicians in a scandal which has rumbled on throughout the 1990s.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/158475.stm
Corruption, bribes, mafia-style hits - Oh my, Agusta plays for keeps!
MiG
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If your like canada..
you will pay half the money and then cancel the contract because a Democrat gets in power. Then 5 years later you will pay twice the original cost for half as good an aircraft.
but 6.3 billion seems like alot for 23 choppers.
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Thats the point Pongo. Hell a UH-60 with an exec kit doens't run you past 50 million - and thats with all the CM packages. 225 mil - something is really wrong. I don't care if its a domestic program or international consortium.
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UH-60's are not built in Texas.