Aces High Bulletin Board
General Forums => The O' Club => Topic started by: Gunslinger on February 01, 2005, 07:21:21 PM
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Not that I dont thing he has the right to say what he said....I think what he is reciting constitutes hate speech and I wouldnt want one of my children going to one of his classes and hearing this BS. Yes I want my kids to think for themselves (even with a slight nudge from me here and there) but teachers have influence over them and I think this guy has no business in working for a state school. You'd think in todays age of sensativity on campus this wouldnt be an issue......guess this is yet another double standard in our universities.
PS I dont agree with the death threats though.
Colorado Professor's Future on the Line
Tuesday, February 01, 2005
DENVER A panel discussion at Hamilton College (search) in New York featuring a Colorado professor was canceled after hundreds of death threats poured in because of an inflammatory essay he wrote comparing some of the Sept. 11 victims to Nazis and calling President Bush a terrorist.
Hamilton has been on heightened security since the paper by Ward Churchill (search), published more than two-and-a-half years ago in the aftermath of the 2001 attacks, resurfaced.
College spokesman Michael DeBraggio said multiple death threats were made against both school officials and Churchill, who was to be a guest speaker at the panel discussion.
Churchill resigned Monday as chairman of the ethnic studies department at the University of Colorado at Boulder (search), and the Board of Regents there is holding an emergency meeting Thursday to discuss his future.
In the scathing essay, Churchill called the traders and other businesspeople who worked at the World Trade Center in New York "Eichmanns" a reference to Adolf Eichmann, who organized Nazi plans to exterminate Europe's Jews.
That's because he believes American foreign policy and the spread of capitalism around the world for U.S. profit are acts of genocide against Iraqi civilians and others in the same way as the Nazi movement was against the Jews during World War II.
"As to those in the World Trade Center ... true enough, they were civilians of a sort. But innocent? Gimme a break. They formed a technocratic corps at the very heart of America's global financial empire," Churchill wrote.
In an interview with FOX News, Churchill admitted that his 20-page paper was "a harsh piece" and his views are unpopular. But he stands by his opinion that the attacks were retribution for harmful U.S. foreign policy.
"Bush, at least in symbolic terms, is the world's leading terrorist," Churchill told FOX News in an interview. "He absolutely thumbs his nose at the rule of law. He's the head of a rogue state by definition, and it's a rogue state which dispenses carnage on people presumed to be inferior in some set of terms."
The essay attracted little attention until Churchill was invited to speak Thursday at Hamilton College, about 40 miles east of Syracuse, N.Y. Since then, he has gotten several hundred threatening e-mails and some hostile reactions from Sept. 11 victims' families.
He's also gotten hundreds of supportive e-mails and said that some of those in his corner are soldiers on the front lines of the war in Iraq.
"There is a substantial sector of the population, including GIs that I'm corresponding with as a result of this in the Gulf right now, who say, your points are very solid and this is not right what we're doing here," Churchill told FOX.
Though it's difficult for tenured professors to lose their jobs, a number of people including Colorado Gov. Bill Owens (search) and some student Republicans are up in arms over Churchill and his views and want him fired.
"This guy has to go," said Isaiah Lechowit, president of the University of Colorado Student Republicans. "He's been out here just raving about this nonsense and the mindless drones over here are clapping and hooting and hollering for him.
"What sickens me is the people out there clapping for this raving lunatic who applauds these terrorists for killing people on Sept. 11."
Churchill says he has no intention of quitting, and his students don't want to see him go. Many are among his staunchest supporters.
"He changes people's minds," said Albe Zakes, a University of Colorado junior who is a student of Churchill's. "He says controversial things. That is not a bad thing.
"If you express your opinion and you have a strong opinion an opinion that differs from the norm people are going to try to cut you down and take you out of power. If you don't exercise your constitutional right and you don't challenge authority, I think that is being un-American."
Some of Churchill's colleagues in the ethnic studies department held a brief press conference at 7:30 p.m. Tuesday to rally around the scholar. They praised Churchill, mentioned numerous writing awards he's won and chastised the press for twisting his words. Churchill himself wasn't present at the event.
FOX News' Carol McKinley, Catherine Donaldson-Evans and The Associated Press contributed to this report.
(http://www.foxnews.com/images/152520/1_21_churchill_ward.jpg)
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Uhm...
I don't think that guy posts here. What do you expect Skuzzy to do about him?
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Originally posted by Nash
Uhm...
I don't think that guy posts here. What do you expect Skuzzy to do about him?
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Funny Nash :D
I'm not sure why you would think I'd want skuzzy to do anything at all?
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
(http://www.foxnews.com/images/152520/1_21_churchill_ward.jpg)
it's the modern intardnet ameircan male liberal chest thumper. he'll never get laid in real life, so cybering to him is real life.
im sorry but MAN those crooked 80's glasses make me want to stomp on his face for that alone.
i have to say... these morons who saw the movie IQ once, and think "intelligence" means an umkempt appearance, and they'll get to nail meg ryan piss me off. they intentionally look like sh%^ thinking people will take them more seriously because they "must" be smarter than most normal people.
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Ok, I'll bite. Without having read his original work...
The guy wrote a paper, however distasteful, about his views on the indirect consequences of the actions of the American business and political system.
Professors are paid to teach, and depending on their school, to publish. Do you want them all to write only what's safe for their jobs? You know what happens when people only say what's safe for their jobs? You get Washington DC, the UN, and just about every other political capital in the world - wonderful models of unbiased, principled expression of truth .
If you don't like what he says (which I don't), then debate him, don't silence him or coerce him into shutting up.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
Ok, I'll bite. Without having read his original work...
The guy wrote a paper, however distasteful, about his views on the indirect consequences of the actions of the American business and political system.
Professors are paid to teach, and depending on their school, to publish. Do you want them all to write only what's safe for their jobs? You know what happens when people only say what's safe for their jobs? You get Washington DC, the UN, and just about every other political capital in the world - wonderful models of unbiased, principled expression of truth .
If you don't like what he says (which I don't), then debate him, don't silence him or coerce him into shutting up.
I guess your right tarmac I just find the fact that this guy teaches our "future". Challenging a person to think is one thing but saying terror victoms were asking for it is crossing the line.
what if he'd say somthing like the Jews had it coming. Or something to the respect that all the beheadings are justified (wich is more or less what he's saying) To me that is no different than somone who spouts hate speech about minorities.
Go to toungtied.com come sometime and read about all those in colleges that have gotten in trouble for speaking their mind or not being "sensative" and it really looks like a double standard.
You shouldnt call people Nazis and accuse them of committing genocide to encourage them to think. Hell what's the difference between this guy and the guy that spouted off about woman being defficient genetically in the fields of science...
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Originally posted by JB73
it's the modern intardnet ameircan male liberal chest thumper. he'll never get laid in real life, so cybering to him is real life.
ROFLMAO O, the irony....JB73 ridiculing someone else's inability to get laid.
Too funny. :rofl
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just because you'd take him to the beach and play "hide the baloney" doesn't count for him gettin sex
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Believing in free speech means protecting that speech you disagree with as much as you protect that speech you agree with. Sometimes I wonder about some of you- for a group who decries political correctness you sure become outraged quite easily if a football player pantomines mooning an opposing crowd, or a college professor makes an arse out of himself, or a poster says something you disagree with....
Some of you really DO need a walk on the beach...or stronger medications.
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Well...I'm a defender of the Constitutional right of free speech and all...but...I mean...DAM...the conclusions he reaches and the inflammatory statements are just too STUPID for words!
What a bunch of sanctimonius, pseudo-intellectual, anti-capitalistic, pro-and-apologetically socialistic, I can't change my own car's oil so I despise all "doers" clap-trap.
This is the same type of thinking old-style communists used to justify their purges.
If he were making these same types of statements about an ethnic group he would be accused of a hate crime and summarily fired. Yet he can hide his bigotry behind the mask of intellectual freedom and avoid any consequences.
Unbelievable.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I guess your right tarmac I just find the fact that this guy teaches our "future".
It's possible to overstate this. These are college students afterall. Their morals and values are already in place.
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Originally posted by Gunslinger
I guess your right tarmac I just find the fact that this guy teaches our "future". Challenging a person to think is one thing but saying terror victoms were asking for it is crossing the line.
what if he'd say somthing like the Jews had it coming. Or something to the respect that all the beheadings are justified (wich is more or less what he's saying) To me that is no different than somone who spouts hate speech about minorities.
Go to toungtied.com come sometime and read about all those in colleges that have gotten in trouble for speaking their mind or not being "sensative" and it really looks like a double standard.
You shouldnt call people Nazis and accuse them of committing genocide to encourage them to think. Hell what's the difference between this guy and the guy that spouted off about woman being defficient genetically in the fields of science...
I've spent the last 4 years of my life at a major research university. I consider myself an independent conservative. I know plenty about the bias that's present, but if your views are logical you can generally argue with even the most illogical jackbooted liberal/conservative and come out with your views clarified. Notice I said clarified, not necessarily reinforced -- it's important to hear these people out even though you disagree with them, because there's probably some grain of truth behind all their rhetoric and it's that grain you want to incorporate into your new views on the world. If your views are so closed off that you won't even listen to the opposition, then you don't have an opinion resembling any sort of truth - you have a fanatical faith.
Turning the "you offended me!" witch hunts 180 degrees won't put a stop to it - it'll make it worse. The problem is with persecuting people for their views, instead of being open to the reasonable arguments and letting the retarded views fall out of the spotlight on their own. I believe that most college students are smart enough to do this, if they're exposed to a broad range of views on the world. They can take what they find reasonable from each philosophy and incorporate it into their own, while ignoring the junk and rhetoric. The problem comes when there's no counter to that rhetoric and junk... then you get the fanatics who support a view because it's all they know.
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I respectfully disagree Sandman. Freshmen are still very impressionable.
I've seen quite a few who would, to appear intellectual, swallow anything a professor threw at them hook, line, and sinker.
A recent scientific study showed that the brain's ability to make rational decisions isn't fully developed until the age of 25.
So, yeah, I believe that these "instructors" know exactly what they're doing.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Well...I'm a defender of the Constitutional right of free speech and all...but...I mean...DAM...the conclusions he reaches and the inflammatory statements are just too STUPID for words!
They're allowed to be. That whole freedom of speech thing. You don't have to listen or believe him.
This is the same type of thinking old-style communists used to justify their purges.
And the same type of thinking that new-style politically correct whiners use to justify the firing of those that have differing political views.
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I think public flatulence should be punishable by life without parole
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The problem is his arguments, on the surface, seem rather weak and his comparisons are extreme and inappropriate (not morally, academically). Comparing a trader to a nazi camp guard just doesn't hold water. He apparently doesn't have the chops or the interest in doing quality academic work to support his anti-globalization/ ant-corporate agenda. Im not a huge fan myself anymore of corporate run globalization (given the near monopolistic state of many industries and their extreme degree of political and journalistic influence) but the issue is extremely complicated. If there are Eichmanns, in a truer sense, the average trader would come up short. He's just looking for attention and playing to an academically shallow niche audience that doesn't possess critical thought. He cant cut it legitimately, would be my guess, and hes angling for the next best thing (niche appeal and hippie coeds) and may even believe what he types. But so what. Ignore him. Who cares what he thinks?
Charon
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All I can say is give me 10 minutes with him in Washington Heights, and 'foget about it'....
Wolf
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Originally posted by Shuckins
I respectfully disagree Sandman. Freshmen are still very impressionable.
I've seen quite a few who would, to appear intellectual, swallow anything a professor threw at them hook, line, and sinker.
A recent scientific study showed that the brain's ability to make rational decisions isn't fully developed until the age of 25.
So, yeah, I believe that these "instructors" know exactly what they're doing.
Nevertheless, they're adults. They don't need protection from left or right wing nutjobs.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
I respectfully disagree Sandman. Freshmen are still very impressionable.
I've seen quite a few who would, to appear intellectual, swallow anything a professor threw at them hook, line, and sinker.
I agree as well. College is a place to develop your views, although I think that your morals are already pretty well set.
Professors have biases. But if all your professors lean one way, that's the only view that you have available to fit into your existing moral code. That's why I think it's important to have a wide range of views in a faculty - so you can develop your views based on how you and others see the world. The wide range of views even includes people who are extreme, inflammatory, or off the wall, because who am I to judge for everyone else what is so crazy that it shouldn't be taught?
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But Tarmac...do you REALLY believe that the statements made by this man that the victims of 9/11 had it coming should carry NO consequences. His were not just the ramblings of an idiotic private citizen, they were made in an official capacity as a representative of a faculty in a major university.
If I, as a teacher, were to conduct a lecture in which I tried to convince my students that the Jews got what they deserved in the Holocaust I have no doubt whatsoever what my fate would be.
Do you really believe that, in the name of intellectual diversity, he should be allowed to remain in his position, where he can continue to make statements that insinuate that "capitalistic exploiters" deserve to die?
Is he really any different from the fabled idiot who yelled "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
Hate speech is considered to be a crime...isn't it? If he were making these statements about gays he would be fired outright...wouldn't he?
Freedom of speech is not absolute...as many Supreme Court rulings throughout our history have demonstrated.
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Hmmm... do values and morals change with perspective?
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He can say anything he wants. The question is, does the University wantt him representing THEM. I think the answer they have given is a firm NO, but they can not just ****can him like a normal company.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
But Tarmac...do you REALLY believe that the statements made by this man that the victims of 9/11 had it coming should carry NO consequences. His were not just the ramblings of an idiotic private citizen, they were made in an official capacity as a representative of a faculty in a major university.
If I, as a teacher, were to conduct a lecture in which I tried to convince my students that the Jews got what they deserved in the Holocaust I have no doubt whatsoever what my fate would be.
Do you really believe that, in the name of intellectual diversity, he should be allowed to remain in his position, where he can continue to make statements that insinuate that "capitalistic exploiters" deserve to die?
Is he really any different from the fabled idiot who yelled "Fire!" in a crowded theater.
Hate speech is considered to be a crime...isn't it? If he were making these statements about gays he would be fired outright...wouldn't he?
Freedom of speech is not absolute...as many Supreme Court rulings throughout our history have demonstrated.
No consequences? Of course not. I think the consequence should be that he is ignored, or maybe even laughed at and then ignored. But someone else might think that what he says is worthwhile in some way. Don't shut him up for my sake and deny that someone the opportunity to hear what he's saying.
Now, saying that "the Jews got what they deserved" is going one step farther than what this professor said. He didn't say that the Sept 11 victims got what they deserved, he said they were not innocent. He's arguing that they had some contributory role in what happened on September 11 (or as much role as any other American). If I inadvertantly step on a snake while searching for a lost child and get bit and die, did I deserve what I got? That's debateable. I deserved it because I stepped on the snake. I didn't deserve it because at the time I stepped on it I was doing something noble and the violence against the snake was accidental, or at least the consequences weren't considered beforehand. I think this professor is making the same argument. This is not the same as saying that everyone who searches for a lost child (or attempts to make a good living for his family in business, like the WTC victims) should die.
I didn't want to get drawn into an argument about the merits of what he said... just about his right to say it and not lose his government job.
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Originally posted by Shuckins
Well...I'm a defender of the Constitutional right of free speech and all...but...I mean...DAM...the conclusions he reaches and the inflammatory statements are just too STUPID for words!
What a bunch of sanctimonius, pseudo-intellectual, anti-capitalistic, pro-and-apologetically socialistic, I can't change my own car's oil so I despise all "doers" clap-trap.
This is the same type of thinking old-style communists used to justify their purges.
If he were making these same types of statements about an ethnic group he would be accused of a hate crime and summarily fired. Yet he can hide his bigotry behind the mask of intellectual freedom and avoid any consequences.
Unbelievable.
Oh yea, his comments are too stupid for words...likewise Angela Davis' comments when she was a college professor at Berzerkly were oftimes too stupid for words.
But we need stupid educators too, to teach the stupid peoples' kids.
And no, you're never over the top...unless Skuzzy e-mails you.
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Well IMO he's just another mass produced writer who regrets he missed the 60's.
But do you wonder about the insane logic of the people that made the death threats? Its really scary when you realize there are murderers in this world that have no clue they are muderers, tyrants who have no clue they are tyrants, and Americans who have no clue they are unAmerican. Death threats to dissent - now thats a striking blow for democracy. Who breeds such people?
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Sorry airhead your not my type so no long walks on the beach with me for you ;)
as I stated I am all about free speech....BUT....Free speech doesnt mean you can say what ever you want and get away with it IE not lose your job.
I speak my mind all the time at work and it gets me in trouble all the time BUT my supervisers my not like what I have to say about the squadrons concern for my troops safety it does get heard and I know (not allways) when to draw the line.
This guy is a state employee and he's advocated hate speech against the government.....a not so perfect govt. I'll agree....but none the less.
I visit this site weekly http://tonguetied.us/ yes it's a little conservative slanted but all its doing is quoting actual newspaper articles about the exact same thing.
here's the college section:
http://tonguetied.us/archives/cat_college_life.php
Its filled with example after example of people getting fired or what not for doing the exact same thing this guy is doing but the difference is this guy is lauded and these people are hate mongerers. Where's the equality. Is he not insuating that the entire business dept at the college is producing future Nazis?
This guy may be an excelent teacher but even excelent teachers cross the line. I dont think students are all grown up once they go to college. They are still very impressionable and only the smart ones shy away from the left (OK that was a jabb and a joke had to throw that in there)
tweaty I whole heartedly agree with you about the death threats. I dont consider this guys writing "political dissent" its hate speech any way you look at it. Since when are hijackers heros?
anyhow this guy just really pissed me off today and I had to share this.
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Sorry guys, I just can't agree. When he said that those who died in the twin towers were not innocent he implied that they were legitimate targets. What other conclusion are rational people to draw from that statement?
There is a double-standard at work here. Had he said that the discrimination against African-Americans during our country's history was justified because of some perceived cultural failing he would have been tossed out on his keester.
And rightly so.
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Why is it when "Free Speech" is mentioned, people always forget "as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others"?
He has just as much right to do that, as you or I.
Karaya
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Originally posted by Masherbrum
Why is it when "Free Speech" is mentioned, people always forget "as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others"?
He has just as much right to do that, as you or I.
Karaya
OK,
So i'm sure he won't mind when I see him walking down Flatbush Ave and a group approaches him with some burlap bags and black jacks - it'll just be business as usual with free speech.
I hardly think after his comments anyone from NY would miss his rosey presence.
Wolf
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As punishment, they should make that professor join the army and go fight in Iraq. It would be ironic and funny.
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Originally posted by Tarmac
I've spent the last 4 years of my life at a major research university. I consider myself an independent conservative. I know plenty about the bias that's present, but if your views are logical you can generally argue with even the most illogical jackbooted liberal/conservative and come out with your views clarified. Notice I said clarified, not necessarily reinforced -- it's important to hear these people out even though you disagree with them, because there's probably some grain of truth behind all their rhetoric and it's that grain you want to incorporate into your new views on the world. If your views are so closed off that you won't even listen to the opposition, then you don't have an opinion resembling any sort of truth - you have a fanatical faith.
Turning the "you offended me!" witch hunts 180 degrees won't put a stop to it - it'll make it worse. The problem is with persecuting people for their views, instead of being open to the reasonable arguments and letting the retarded views fall out of the spotlight on their own. I believe that most college students are smart enough to do this, if they're exposed to a broad range of views on the world. They can take what they find reasonable from each philosophy and incorporate it into their own, while ignoring the junk and rhetoric. The problem comes when there's no counter to that rhetoric and junk... then you get the fanatics who support a view because it's all they know.
well said.
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FIrst, yeah, professors can be asses.
And, contrary to popular belief, there are plenty of racist, fascist or otherwise scary professors out there.
And, well, sure, academia in the US is predominantly left leaning. Why is that?
Well for one, you ain't gonna get rich teaching in a university. Many of those who espouse the ideals of the party in power, such as cutting government spending for education and pure research, while encouraging corporate profiteering of the public sector seem to be drawn to the world of business more than academics. (that also means you'll get a significant number of libertarians and similar economic freaks in universities too)
For another reason, there are plenty of privately-funded think tanks that hire conservative academics. Capitalism in the US isn't simply about the free market, but rather about getting the government to create the legal conditions most favorable for a given corporation, and least favorable for its competitors. That requires a multi-pronged approach, and one of those prongs is para-academic work. So there's plenty of funding out there for academics who want to shill for the corporations.
Which brings us back to what academics should and shouldn't be allowed to do. Militaries exist to support the state, and, given their very real power, many safeguards must be in place to prevent them from opposing the state. That's why there are restrictions on what militaries can and cannot do. They are tools in the hands of politicians. Otherwise, we get a military dictatorship.
Universities exist for the benefit of the citizens, and they do this in several ways. First, they provide education, and not simply vocational education (aka "learniing to slave"). They should provide the citizens with the critical apparatus necessary to be informed participants in the democracy. Second, they provide a space where people can expand the bounds of human knowledge.
The moment we say, "and professors must support the state", we kill both these objectives. The very first lesson a university should teach is to question authority. That authority includes both the state and the professor. We don't want you to think like us, we want you to think for your bloody self, thank you very much.
And the moment we make academics answerable to something other than the boundaries of professional conduct (=not stealing other people's work), we damage considerably their ability to expand human knowledge. If you doubt this, google "soviet genetics".
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I normally wouldn't care what this guy said but when he is paid by the state to teach our kids his hate for our country that goes over the line.
Everyone has a right to voice their opinion but they should not be rewarded for their hate.
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Do they really have the right to free speech in schools? Can a professor teach white power or christian belief... I have heard that in some schools it is even forbidden to say that evolution is only a theory..
I would have no problem with giving equal time to any political or religious view. I also believe that it is not equal time that professors like him and 88 want.
lazs
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Originally posted by JB73
im sorry but MAN those crooked 80's glasses make me want to stomp on his face for that alone.
80's Glasses hell.
Those are 70's Glasses!
The Style and color of the frames is called Tortoise Shell
I know. I used to have a pair exactly like them back in the 6th grade cause my parents wouldnt let me get the wire frame aviators I wanted LOL
The Reason they sit on his head crooked, as many who wear glasses can tell you is because he falls asleep with them on. ( he likes to sleep on his left side)
Saw a report on the news about this guy.
Seems he cant be fired because he is tenured.
Maybe someone would be kind enough to run him over With a UPS truck or something
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You're confusing mandatory schooling for minors with voluntary education for adults. Mandatory schooling for minors means a) the people in class are required to be there, b) the people in class are legally not capable of making their own decisions and c) the state determines what the kids learn.
There's serious problems with the way our state (or any other) interacts with schoolkids.
But at the university level, we're talking about adults on adults. And in a properly run state schools, tenured professors are allowed to teach anything they like, provided they maintain a level of professional conduct. So, sure, they cannot physically or otherwise attack students, sexually harass them, sleep with them, sell them drugs, or sell them grades. And they cannot plagiarize, or sell their position as university professor for profit.
But as far as what they say in public, they certainly can preach white power if they like. And some professors have done that, and the result recently is much the same as our little genius noted here: he can't lose his job for expressing his ideas, but people are going to make his life miserable.
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Originally posted by Wolfala
OK,
So i'm sure he won't mind when I see him walking down Flatbush Ave and a group approaches him with some burlap bags and black jacks - it'll just be business as usual with free speech.
I hardly think after his comments anyone from NY would miss his rosey presence.
Wolf
The United States Constitution is what I was referring to. Read more.
Karaya
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Dinger the problem comes in when a school makes a course manditory. What do you do then?
I've heard of to many Profs who abuse their classes knowing that they can say and do anything they want because the kids don't have a choice.
Yeah I know they can go to another school in theory but that is not always an option.
My oldest brother is an example. He went to IU after he retired from the Army and one of his black teachers would not pass him till he admitted in front of the class he was a racist just because he was a white male.
He spoke with the dept head and the Dean and they all said the same thing "There was nothing they could do".
So his choice was fail the class or say he was a racist.
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Hey grun, he's allowed his views. However, we're allowed to call him a handsomehunk and laugh at him repeatedly.
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A lot of these guys don't teach all that much. They are supposed to be writing and getting published and bringing in grant money for research. I believe actual teaching is pretty low on the list.
Charon
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Part of his diatribe made me laugh a bit.
It reminded me of Neal Stephenson's "War as Text" crowd.
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Originally posted by Mighty1
So his choice was fail the class or say he was a racist.
Not sure if it would have helpped, but I definately would have gone to the press with that one.
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In Bloomington?!
Wouldn't help one bit. Bloomington is so liberal they would probably run my brother out of town just because he questioned a black teacher.
Bloomington is so liberal you can't even cut a tree branch that has fallen in your driveway unless you get a permit.
Bloomington is so liberal you couldn't wish anyone "Merry Christmas" without being sued.
Bloomington is so liberal they have an active drive to bring in more gays.
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So, are saying that Bloomington is liberal?
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OOOOOOOHHHHH..........
You guys hit on one of my pet peeves!!!!
Had a Soc. prof. that went round and round with me.
I was going to college on the GI Bill.
This guy made us buy this book that was pure B.S. and very anti-american/anti-capitalism.
It was filled with stuff like how Beacons moving and storage had purchased an underground hive like structure and was selling office space to many companies for the revolution/disaster that was coming. Thus afterward they could come out and bill everyone again.
He crowed about a document that had just come out. Seemed a Gov. offical when asked about the document said he had never heard of the Gov. org. that had put out the document. This prof was claiming the U.S. gov was such a mess they didn't even know just how many branch's of our gov there actually was. The document was later proved to be DIS-Informaton, the Gov. Org. it was reported to have come from NEVER existed.
This guy constantly spoke of his trip to Red China and just how wonderful the place was.
He and I went round and round. Once he was talking about the great struggle between North Viet Nam and the U.S. and was painting ugly picture of U.S. troops.
I could see some of the younger students, the looks on their faces, they were lapping this stuff up.
SOOOOOO............
I responded with the mass executions of civilians, many of them teachers, public workers, etc. I saw near Hue. Killed by the NVA and buried in mass graves. I told him of the MIC force people from villages near Khe San skinned alive and hung from trees.
I told him and the class about S/Sgt Larry Dring the Army Medic that saw first hand the benevolence of the VC/NVA. He had been going through the highlands innoculating village children and elders etc. The unit forgot some important equipment in a village they had just left. They doubled back. Found the VC/NVA had been following them from village to village. As an example to the village people the VC/NVA had cut off the inoculated arm of the son of the village headman as an example of what happened to those who collaborated with the enemy. One of the VC/NVA had been caught in his benevolence. S/Sgt Larry Dring upon seeing this, by his own report, picked up a rifle and beat that VC/NVA to death. Thereafter S/Sgt Larry Dring carried weapons and actively hunted and fought them.
We went back and forth. He finally took me aside and promised me a C if I would just stop coming to class. I held out for a b and got it and stopped going. He at least kept his word on that. Some of the students from that class would come by and talk with me in the caf. before and after class.
Some of these leftward leaning types really bother me. I freely admit I don't care for some of the rightward leaners that go to far as well. Any side that blatantly lie's and twist the truth gets me going.
I have since read Tsun Tzu's Art of War specifically the section on espionage. I now think I may have a better understanding of who and what he might have been/was.
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Originally posted by Sandman
Hmmm... do values and morals change with perspective?
I would say, yes, sometimes they do.
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Any side that blatantly lie's and twist the truth gets me going.
heh that gets me going too.
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i'm sorry , but his job is to "teach", not to use his job as a forum to put forth his own ideas of reality.
he looks like a 70's war protester hippy wannabe,
buddy , you be 30 years too late, jane fonda has "found" god.